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Ya win some, ya lose some

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  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Reading, PA
  • 30,002 posts
Ya win some, ya lose some
Posted by rrinker on Wednesday, March 11, 2009 8:31 PM

 Glued the first layer of extruded foam to my benchwork, yellow glue, two days alter - if I could actually manage it I could lift the layout by the foam and it won;t pull apart. Foam to wood.

 My backlog of 13 hopper car kits got a step closer as I superglued all the weights in place (painted them last weekend).

And then - glued the second layer of foam to the first, also with yellow glue. 36 hours later it could still be pulled up, at least in the corner where I tested it. It stuck back down though, so I'll let it sit for another day or two and see what happens. If that fails I'll try caulk., but I figured the yellow glue has a better chance of curing between two pieces of foam than caulk does. Perhaps not.

 

                                                        --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
    August 2004
  • From: Amish country Tenn.
  • 10,027 posts
Posted by loathar on Wednesday, March 11, 2009 8:34 PM

Liquid Nails for foam. The other products eat foam.

  • Member since
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  • From: Austin, TX
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Posted by Don Z on Wednesday, March 11, 2009 9:16 PM

Randy,

What type of yellow glue did you use? Did you remove the plastic film (if it was on the foam) before gluing?

I used TiteBond 3 yellow glue and thinned it with water so I could use a short nap roller to spread the glue over my foam to glue the layers together. I used a bunch of Walthers catalogs to weigh down the foam. It dried completely overnight and is impossible to pull apart.

Don Z.

  • Member since
    September 2008
  • From: Seattle, Washington
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Posted by IVRW on Wednesday, March 11, 2009 9:51 PM
That shows that yellow glue is good for wood to glue glueing. Use another glue type for foam to foam glueing.

~G4

19 Years old, modeling the Cowlitz, Chehalis, and Cascade Railroad of Western Washington in 1927 in 6X6 feet.

  • Member since
    February 2005
  • From: Vancouver Island, BC
  • 23,330 posts
Posted by selector on Wednesday, March 11, 2009 9:56 PM

Randy, that must be a bit disconcerting.  I only every used latex caulk, and on your advice...four years ago now.  I would think that you will be fine in time, but since the foam is not open cell, and essentially impermeable, it will take some time for the water base to evaporate from the periphery, it's only outlet.

 Can you handle doing other "stuff" for about three more days?

-Crandell

Moderator
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  • From: Northeast OH
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Posted by tstage on Wednesday, March 11, 2009 10:16 PM

Randy,

For what it's worth, I wouldn't even bother with yellow glue and would just go with the caulk.  I've used the DAP Alex Plus Acrylic Latex caulk ($2 @ Home Depot) on cork to foam and track to cork with great results.  Either one is cured in 8 hours but I let it go for 24 hours.

The DAP is also nice because it doesn't have all the nasty chemicals that the Liquid Nails products do Dead...and it's less expensive. Approve  (Now that should appeal to the Pennsylvania Dutch side of your family. Smile,Wink, & Grin)

Tom

https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling

Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.

  • Member since
    August 2004
  • From: Amish country Tenn.
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Posted by loathar on Wednesday, March 11, 2009 10:27 PM

tstage-I love the smell of Liquid Nails in the mourning...smells like......progress.Big Smile
The "For Foam" stuff isn't as bad smelling as their other products.

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Reading, PA
  • 30,002 posts
Posted by rrinker on Thursday, March 12, 2009 6:45 AM

 Liquid Nails - I will never EVER EVER use one of their products again. My first 'test' layout idea using foram, I used Liquid Nails for foamboard to attach two pieces of foam together to make a 4x8 (attached the forma to wood pieces running across the joint). 3 days later - still not set up. That's about when I broke it down and went with the 8x12 idea and made proper framework. Later on, I needed to attach a toilet paper roll holder to tile in the bathroom, so I bought a squeeze tube of the appropriate Liquid Nails product - said right on the tube that it was for this purpose. Also said it sets up in 24 hours. Took about 7 days before it set up. And no it wasn't steam in the bathroom keepign it too damp, it was a very large bath with plenty of ventilation AND the object in question was at least 10 feet from the shower stall. So, no Liquid Nails for me.

 Yes, I know I've been a long time advocate of caulk - but also keep in mind I used yellow glue for the foam to wood joints in my previous layout. I used caulk to attach a tortoise to the foam, and to attach roadbed to the foam and track to the roadbed. And will continue to do so with this one.

                                         --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Weymouth, Ma.
  • 5,199 posts
Posted by bogp40 on Thursday, March 12, 2009 7:22 AM

Randy, I hear you about the Liquid nail. Now, two things happening here. The wood glue, caulk and adhesive need air and/ or material somewhat porous to dry. I have pulled apart piece of foam glued w/ caulk after 4-5 months and still found wet caulk that could be scraped off w/ a putty knife. I inagine the same would be true for glue. I have recommended the use of ceramic tile adhesive for some time. If spread w/ a notched trowel, allows a good initial tack and the trapped air allows for drying. Laminated layers of foam hold overnight and once dried are impossible to separate. The ceramic TP holder should have been installed w/ tile adhesive or urethane constuction adhesive. Held in place with tape overnight and the fixture would be ready to grout or caulk. The ceramic tile mastic/ adhesive works for foam to wood, foam to foam, plaster to wood, plaster to foam or plaster to plaster. Should give it a try.

Modeling B&O- Chessie  Bob K.  www.ssmrc.org

  • Member since
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  • From: Lewiston ID
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Posted by reklein on Thursday, March 12, 2009 10:26 AM

Bog,I hear ya about the airdry thing. That foam is like, impervious to air once its pressed together. I've had the trouble with liquid nails too. I got a little better action by only gluing the perimeter. But what we need is an adhesive thats sets by chemical reaction, like epoxy. Sytems three epoxy will not attack pink or blue foam and will stick it good. Its tough to sand but it will stick it no matter how high your stack of foam is. BILL

In Lewiston Idaho,where they filmed Breakheart pass.
  • Member since
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  • From: Vancouver Island, BC
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Posted by selector on Thursday, March 12, 2009 10:40 AM

By the way, Gorilla Glue is really good.  It uses a wee skiff of water as a catalyst (it's in the instructions!), and it sets up very strongly.  It does foam/expand a bit, so use it spread very thinly and don't spray with water...just a thin one-pass mist over the surface.  Press the layers together, and in two hours you have a solid chunk.  Won't attack the foam, either.

-Crandell

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Reading, PA
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Posted by rrinker on Thursday, March 12, 2009 5:41 PM

 Hmm, but Gorilla Glue is so strong even my stacks and stacks of old MR's might not hold it down Big Smile

Every inch of the foam is covered by a boxed set of magazines, with a second layer staggered over those. I checked it today, as in, a few minutes ago, and it looks liek it will hold after all. Just needed enough time to dry.

 An addition to my failures of Liquid Nails projects - the TP holder was attached with Liquid Nails construction adhesive, not the foam board stuff - after the failure of that one I just threw the rest of the tube out. As for the attempt to use it to glue foam and wood together - when I mean after several days it came apart, that was several days with weight on it, and when it came apart the LN product was dry and hard, so it wasn't that it hadn't set up, it just didn't bond well. The bits on the wood were well attached, perhaps I could haev chisled it off if I needed the wood. The bit on the foam was stuck pretty well too, it didn;t peel or scratch off, not without takign a chunk of foam with it, so I really am at a loss with that one.

                                  --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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