"Responsibility" to the hobby? Gimme a BREAK!

[Pruitt]

Actually, Gregg, what makes them sore is the frustration of dealing with folks who are ready to villify you for things you never even wrote, because they can't (or won't) be bothered with carefully reading and understanding what you wrote in the first place.

[Pruitt]

Drew -

Actually, model railroading, and most of the folks I know whom I share the hobby with, are really great! I tremendously enjoy it and them.

But some things really "spin me up," including, unfortunately, people who put words in my mouth (not "Did you mean...?" but "You're wrong about...," for example), and people saying I have a duty to do something just because I participate in a hobby at my leisure. Those things I am serious about, because in the first case the person(s) are spreading untruths to which others may respond, and in the second case because it's simply not their place to say or imply anything relating to what I SHOULD do.

I generally enjoy the give and take of these conversations (though there are exceptions), even if it is about a topic that bugs me.

You have a very good point, and I'll try to come across as less serious about even the things that get my goat here in the future.

Mark

[thirdrail1]

Y'all's shoulders must be gettin' powerful sore carryin' 'round those huge chips!

[Pruitt]

I expected a snide response - thanks for not disappointing me. And so much for respect as well. I know my last post wasn't particularly respectful, but then I wasn't misrepresenting what you said, either. I was every bit as respectful as your commentary about my remarks (that's just a - probably futile - effort on my part to stave off a "well YOU were disrespectful first!" complaint).

Check again regarding what is punctuation and what is grammar as relates to quoting someone.

Grow up, Terry! I used "officious" many times, and had one instance of a typo. Telling someone to check the spelling of a word where that happens is just another instance of mischaracterization on your part, to say nothing of being pathetically immature.

Ever think of politics as a profession? You seem to have most of the qualifications.

[mnwestern]

Mark:
Oh, Thanks so very much for the punctuation (not grammar as you believe it is) lesson. As long as we are worried about such things, check "officious" in your Webster's. It is not "officous" as you say you wrote.
T

[Anonymous]

Mark,
For someone who doesn't want "responsability" attached to his hobby (niether do I), you sure do take this stuff SERIOUSLY!
If model railroading, or the people involved in it caused me to be that angry, I'd find something else to do.
Life is too short my friend, & there are plenty of things for us to be angry about in this world right now. The last thing you need to worry about is being persecuted by model railroaders!
Our hobby is our refuge, however we choose to persue it. We're all in this together.

[Pruitt]

Terry -

Is your point here to show everyone that you have reading comprehension problems, along with an inability to properly use the written word? Because that's exactly what you're doing.

This time I'm serious. First, you conclude that I'm putting down EVERYONE who promotes The Hobby. When I point out your error in making that assumption, and then ask you to provide an example out of any of my posts that even implies a general put-down of those who CHOOSE to promote The Hobby, you come back with a supposed quote from a specific paragraph of a specific post, BUT I NEVER USED THE QUOTED PHRASE!

I never wrote the phrase "officious jerks and clubbers." I DID write "officous jerks," and I DID write "clubbers." When you quote someone, quotation marks enclose the exact wording, and sometimes even the exact spelling, used. Any added comment is placed in brackets. For example, suppose someone said, "Riverton received two feet of snow," I might clarify which Riverton when quoting that person in a written article by writing "Riverton [Wyoming] received two feet of snow." If I simply wrote "Riverton Wyoming received two feet of snow" I would be misquoting that person, though in this case it would not change the sense or meaning of their statement (assuming I got the right Riverton).

Does that explain the proper use of quotations to enough depth? I hope so. In any case, grammar 101 is now over.

Regarding the example you think you provided - I already addressed both "officious jerks" and "clubbers" in both the post you misquote (the exact same paragrah, in fact!0, and in the post in which I asked for an example. And neither case implies a general put-down of hobby promoters.

Twice now in this string you've been unwilling or unable to maintain a coherent conversation by replying to what I SAID; instead, you're latching onto parts or my comments while ignoring other parts, and so mischaracterizing and misquoting me. If you have comments about what I say, fine. READ AND UNDERSTAND WHAT I SAY FIRST! Otherwise you're just wasting everyone's time.

In the future, I'll reply to anything you say that makes sense; if it doesn't, I'll simply pithily point it out and let you figure out where your reading comprehension errors occurred.

Offended now? Too bad. Quit misrepresenting what I say (in other words, show some respect by READING what I - and others, too, I suspect - write), and I won't be.

Mark

[mnwestern]

Mark,
Oct. 5, 4:58 a.m., paragraph 3. "officious jerks and clubbers."
T

[Pruitt]

Gee, Terry, maybe you and Gregg should get together and form a club for "imaginative conclusions."

But before you go, please tell me how I'm running down folks who show an interest in promoting this hobby? Provide ONE EXAMPLE of anything I've said that even IMPLIES this, and I'll apologize for it. Or perhaps you should just go back and READ what I've written while trying to COMPREHEND the meaning of the words and sentences.

I promote The Hobby sometimes, simply by talking about it with anyone who shows an interest in such a conversation. Why would I run myself down?

In fact, all I've done is protest against the idea that some espouse that, just because I buy a loco and run it on a loop of track, I now "owe" something to The Hobby, and it has become MY DUTY to convince others to join the ranks.

If anyone asks me to help out with a show at the mall, or at a flea market or whatever, if I'm available I might agree. At that oint I've made a committment and AM duty-bound to see it through. I have no problem with the person who asked, or with enthusiastically doing what I agreed to do.

I have a problem with those who imply that I have an obligation of some sort, and to which I never agreed.

As far as "officious jerk" is a put-down (it's also descriptive), then I am running those people down. But that's not a put-down of all people who promote the hobby.

Clear now? No offense was intended in these comments.

[Pruitt]

Hello!!! Do we have a reading comprehension difficulty here, Gregg???

Please point out where in any of my comments I have even alluded to an interest in The Hobby shrinking in size? How do you conclude that I hate other model railroaders, and so want to make The Hobby shrink to, apparently, "get them?"

No, everyone who asks me to do something is not an officious jerk. Anyone who implies that it is my DUTY to do so just because I happen to like model trains is. You know the type - The model railroader whose joins a club and makes "clubbing" the real hobby is usually a good example. That's not that these folks don't serve a very useful purpose ... a certain level of officiousness is required in any non-profit organization, just to handle the bureaucratic paperwork. Not that "clubbers" have to be officious jerks; it's simply that a disproportionate number are (and no, I'm not saying all, or even most, club members are, so don't miraculously attribute that thought to me).

You say, "Nobody has asked you to do anything." WOAH!! Your post of October 2 said, "...you['re] already doing what is being asked." Now I'm confused! If nobody is asking anything of me, how can I be doing what I've been asked? Care to explain this apparent inconsistency for me?

I'm not trying to berate or offend you, though I may have done a little of both here. You seem to be drawing somewhat imaginative and very erroneous conclusions about my remarks, and I needed to clearly point out that those conclusions are wrong.

[thirdrail1]

Is everybody who asks you to do anything an "officious jerk"? Unless you scratchbuild everything you model out of common materials, it is to your selfish interest that the model railroad universe be as large as possible, as the more people participate, the greater amount will be spent, attracting more manufacturers to produce more products that you nmight wi***o purchase.

Nobody has asked you to do anything, but I fail to understand why you are so eager for the hobby to shrink in size, do you hate other model railroaders that much?

[mnwestern]

David,
You are right about the value to us all of growing the hobby. How many of the great new products we now enjoy in the industry would be around if the hobby never was "promoted" so that more people might take an interest in it. If we all were closet modelers, it is likely the hobby would eventually die on the vine. Closet modelers benefit greatly from those who "grow" the hobby by encouraging people who have shown some interest in the hobby to pursue it further. Mark, please continue to display your layout when asked, but perhaps even "volunteer" once in a while to host an open house for the local club or present your talents at a modeling clinic at a local show. Heck, if it wasn't for people showing an interest in promoting this hobby, you wouldn't have this forum to run them down, now, would you.
TD

[DavidH]

I agree with Roger. I don't understand why so many people seem to go out of their way to find things to get upset about. Nobody is asking anybody to stand on street corners proselytizing. Growth of the hobby, though, is important to us all, as that is what enables the production of diverse products of all scales for our individual enjoyment.

David H

[rogerhensley]

It was said ====
"Well, if you feel you have a duty or a responsibility or something to do so, by all means go ahead. But to imply such for everyone else? Mind Your own business! I'm certainly not taking on any such responsibility - for me, model railroading is a HOBBY! It's a leisure time activity, NOT A JOB!!
====
And that is exactly right if you really feel that way. I've promoted the hobby for the past 21 years and maybe I'm guilty of forgetting that not everyone wants to or is willing. It just becomes a way of life.

No, I don't stop people on the street and pu***he hobby. :-) I DO take advantages of opportunities when I see one as someone asking questions and I try to get information about the hobby placed where the genreal public can see it.

I agree that you do not have a responsibility to promote the hobby, but many people do feel that they do and need to do this to keep the hobby alive and well. I know that I enjoy the hobby and am willing to share how I feel with others.

T't't't'that's all folks...

Roger Hensley

[Pruitt]

I don't have anything in particular against the rest of the world. I DO have something against the busybodies who think they have the right to ask ANYONE to do ANYTHING when it comes to how they spend the time they have for The Hobby. You said, "...you['re] already doing what is being asked." THAT is exactly my point. What officious jerk(s) think(s) they have the right to ask me to do anything to promote anything?

Some of the folks writing in Model Railroader in the mid-80s, including both editorials and letters to the editor, strongly implied anyone who didn't active promote The Hobby was being remiss in some way. A few even came right out and said it.

Just watch - this "World's Greatest Hobby" push will result in the same sort of thing.

[Anonymous]

Hi Mark, you're certainly entitled to your opinion, and I must admit I'm a bit of a lone wolf modelrailroader too. And I agree it's for fun! But I must say I do get a kick out of showing off my small layout to friends and their kids. If I knew more folks around here who were modelrailroaders, I'd try to get connected with them too. I don't suppose the idea behind any promotional effort like WGH is to talk folks who aren't interested into the hobby, just introduce the hobby to people who never may have heard of it or considered it as a leisure time activity. I appreciate the chance to have someone else offer to 'organize' an opportunity for me to speak about it.

Doug

[thirdrail1]

Whew! What have you got against the rest of the world? No one, to my knowledge, has suggested you, or anyone else, for that matter, attempt to "recruit" people not interested in model railroads into the hobby. Model railroading is not a religion, although some of those into DCC proselytize like it was (DCC, not model railroading).

If, as you say, you are glad to admit you are a model railroader, and happy to discuss and "show off" your activities, you already doing what is being asked. Please do not become angry that OTHER model railroaders are being asked not to "hide their light under a bushel basket".

Believe me, I have taken my small model railroad to four shows now, and it's well worth the effort to see the look on those small faces as they watch the trains operate. The complements received from other modelers aren't bad for the ego either.

From talking to one couple at the show last Saturday, I know at least one coffee table layout that will now be built.

[Pruitt]

Every so often, someone starts carping about people's "responsibility" towards model railroading, implying that somehow we all have a "duty" to "recruit" new members so the hobby ("The Hobby") can grow.

Well, if you feel you have a duty or a responsibility or something to do so, by all means go ahead. But to imply such for everyone else? Mind Your own business! I'M certainly not taking on any such responsibility - for me, model railroading is a HOBBY! It's a leisure time activity, NOT A JOB!!

"Recruit" new members? ("Sign here, kid, and you'll be committed to a four-year stint in the hobby.") BULL! The ONLY person who can "recruit" someone new into The Hobby IS that person! They are either interested or they aren't.

If someone wants to see my layout, or see how I do something, I'll be happy to show them, If they want to ask me questions about how they might build a layout or where they might fit one into their home or apartment, I'll be happy to share ideas about it. I'll even show them what I've done, if the're interested. Heck, like most folks, I LOVE the sound of my own voice and will be ECSTATIC to share my thoughts about any aspect of the hobby for which they might stand still and listen.

But I WILL NOT try and talk someone into trying model railroading if they aren't really interested, out of some ridiculous "responsibility" someone else thinks we all have to The Hobby.

Maybe the NMRA does have some responsibility to the future of The Hobby; they are, after all, an associated DEVOTED to the betterment of the hobby. But that implies NOTHING about any such "responsibility" on anyone else's part.

The Hobby industry (i.e., publishers, manufacturers, etc.) has a vested interest in promoting The Hobby, as that's their way of making a living (or at least some extra income). So their responsibility to their bottom lines equates to a responsibility to the future of the hobby. BUT that does NOT imply that I have a duty here!

In the mid-eighties, I think it was (beginning about the 50th anniversary of Model Railroader, as I recall), MR got into this kick about how we should all promote the hobby, how it's up to us to make sure new young people become model railroaders, and so forth. This went on for a couple of years, and it was as pathetically irritating then as it is now. They lost a few subscribers over that crap, as I recall, because people didn't want "what you should do for your hobby" shoved down their throat.

This "World's Greatest Hobby" effort is not a bad idea. But be very clear - it's NOT MY JOB to do ANYTHING associated with it.

I play with model trains for fun. Nothing else.

Just my opinion.