I guess the old adage is true; you get what you pay for! I just received an order for four Athearn passenger cars from Wholesaletrains.com ( who I have done business with many times in the past with good results). They had a close out on these cars for twelve dollars each! Since I am modeling the CN/GTW in Mi., I thought this would be a perfect (and inexpensive) opportunity to to acquire the cars and loco for the "Blue Water Special" operated by Amtrak between Port Huron and Chicago. However, the cars are not very good. Poor detailing (especially on the under body), truck mounted "el cheapo" couplers (that uncouple themselves on upgrades), and don't meet NMRA weight standards. So, my question is, what's the opinion as to whether I should exchange for better quality (at a higher price), or spend the time and effort to upgrade these puppies?
I have a number of the Athearn passenger cars, the heavyweight jobs. They come with truck mounted couplers in an effort to get the cars to accept 18 inch curves. Mine all stay on the track, and the level of detail is passible. The heavyweights are all "shorties", a good deal shorter than 80 foot, although they look pretty good, just so long as you don't couple them up with a true 80 foot model that will make 'em look short. Mine mostly came thru with a combined electric lamp holder/weight that made 'em heavy enough. They might have omitted that on newer production, but adding ballast is a trivial exercise. I wind up adding weight to most of my rolling stock.
For uncoupling problems, you want to check coupler height, first thing. Buy or make a coupler height gage (a coupler mounted on a block of something at the correct height) and see what's what. Athearn couplers are usually low and the car often needs a #6 flat washer under each truck to jack t he couplers and the carbody up to the correct height.
Also, check your vertical easement. If your grade starts abruptly, you will have trouble as the car on the grade tilts it's coupler down while the following car, not yet onto the grade, holds it's coupler level. For cars this long, you will need to ease into and out of the grade gently.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
Raised on the Erie Lackawanna Mainline- Supt. of the Black River Transfer & Terminal R.R.
I use Athearn passengers cars almost exclusively. I have large curves (36" and greater) but prefer the selective compression effect of their shorter size. In fact, only the Pullman and the diner have no similar prototype. Lots of coaches, baggage, and RPO cars where in that 72' range or shorter (the Athearn RPO/baggage is 67'). Several railroads even had private observations less than 80'.
It is true they are not exact models of any real car, just freelanced and selectively compressed generic models. But they do follow prototype practice for their types pretty well and give a good visual impression.
The underbodies ar easily detailed with brake rigging sets, steam traps and other detail parts from Cal Scale (Bowser) and the couplers can be easily body mounted with pads from Jay-Bee. I remove the small flange around the end doors and install American Limited Diaphragms as well. When complete I have had many modelers ask what they where, not even recognizing them and often not noticing their shorter length.
I get the impression you are a little new to the hobby, as these cars have been out since the late 1950's and are basicly unchanged since then. Actually the diner, baggage and clerestory coach where added in the 70's. Now just RTR from China rather than a quicky kit from California (actually the kits are still available too).
I also have kit bashed a number of cars Athearn does not make, combine's, full RPO's, parlor cars, lounge cars, etc. I do similar detailing and bashing to Athearn's streamlined cars and to the 72' cars from Concor.
Sheldon
Jaybee makes coupler conversion kits for a number of brands of passenger cars including Athearn. I used them on a fleet of Bachmann Spectrum cars and got excellent results. I have a few Athearns from a previous layout but haven't gotten around to doing the conversions yet. Truck mounted couplers are a pain. They do allow some equipment to run on tight curves but if you have reasonable radius curves, body mounted is the only way to go.
jecorbet,
I wont deny that body mounted is generally the PREFFERED way to go, it is NOT the only way to go. I am a member of a Large club, and they usually require body mounted couplers. I was able to get an exemption on that rule for my Passenger train, I have a 12 car train of Athearn Heavyweights with Kadee metal wheels, the truck journals have been reamed with "The Tool" properly weighted and TRUCK MOUNTED couplers.I have been able to repeatedly BACK this train around curves, through a double crossover and through yard tracks/switches at times incountering ALL these conditions simultaneously, without trouble. Truck mounted couplers will make poor track work or other problems more apparent, but are rarely the ONLY problem when they have issues.
The Athearn cars are a little sparse on detail, and don't have interiors, but during show, this is a Very popular train, that gets many comments, even without interior details and lighting.
Doug
May your flanges always stay BETWEEN the rails
Athearn lightweight cars are kinda "generic" cars, something like Budd cars. The heavyweights are based on Santa Fe prototypes and are reasonably good representations of ATSF cars. Not all Heavyweight era cars were 80' long, in fact the Baggage, RPO and Coach are correct as being IIRC 63', 67' and 72' respectively. Many coaches were 70' long in that time, and most baggage and RPO cars were shorter than that - many railroads had 60' baggage or RPO cars like the Walthers / Rivarossi ones.
The heavyweights I have came with heavy metal weights and track very well. Palace Car Co. makes interior kits for them. If these are older ones with plastic wheels, you can swap them out for metal ones.
PASSENGER CARS ARE TOO LONG for beginner layouts unless you have lots of room for straghts or are into N Scale. Yes, they're exceptions such as 'old timers., but too few people buy them.
ATHERN Passenger cars are compromises.in legth. prototype, and road names, but fit smaller layouts such as 4X8's. Most newbies avoid 36" curves., and are cheap enough.
WALTHERS' cars are more prototypical, but take up 12" each' and ideally want 48" curves to look realistic.. A # 6 passenger passing siding takes up to 8' (4 cars). How much room do you have?
Passenger Stubs need to be 10' to hold 9 80' cars plus an engine. Popular 4-6-2's of the depression era pulled many'name trains' 6 heavyweight cars on the 'flat' runs..
wjstixAthearn lightweight cars are kinda "generic" cars, something like Budd cars.
Not like, Are. The coach is based off the original Lightweight Budd coach to be rolled out for Santa Fe. 72ft. I walked one heel-toe. Winders are about right too, though I didn;t measure them. And you can delve into other research from there.
The reason Athearn si getting rare is that Horizon is going to relaunch there cars, and quite likely scrap the kit-cars.
To the OP, work with them, You bought them, use them. They are worth it. And make a nice train. See the Overlands above. *Drool* the two-tone grey is a very nice scheme, and a nice locomotive.
Challenger: what club? I might forsee a roadtrip in the very distant (sigh...) future.
-Morgan
Flashwave The reason Athearn si getting rare is that Horizon is going to relaunch there cars, and quite likely scrap the kit-cars.
Where do you get such information? Athearn is far from rare, new Athearn Ready to Roll is everywhere (including on my layout and in my workshop) and Athearn has said repeatedly the kits will not be discontinued. They do produce EVERYTHING in batches and stuff can be "off the grid" in between production runs. But trust me, I've been in this hobby 40 years and worked in several hobby shops, Athearn has ALWAYS been that way and they remain one of the strongest product lines in this business.
I remember once ithe the early seventies they did not make RDC's for three years, everyone said their not coming back. They made tons in the eighties before the dies broke. Now that one item is gone, and some have been replaced by newer tooling from MDC, but I doubt the passenger cars will go unless a complete replacement is tooled, not likely. Go to Athearn's web site, they even tell you the production schedule for blue box kits.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Flashwave The reason Athearn is getting rare is that Horizon is going to relaunch there cars, and quite likely scrap the kit-cars. Where do you get such information? Athearn is far from rare, new Athearn Ready to Roll is everywhere (including on my layout and in my workshop) and Athearn has said repeatedly the kits will not be discontinued. They do produce EVERYTHING in batches and stuff can be "off the grid" in between production runs. But trust me, I've been in this hobby 40 years and worked in several hobby shops, Athearn has ALWAYS been that way and they remain one of the strongest product lines in this business. I remember once ithe the early seventies they did not make RDC's for three years, everyone said their not coming back. They made tons in the eighties before the dies broke. Now that one item is gone, and some have been replaced by newer tooling from MDC, but I doubt the passenger cars will go unless a complete replacement is tooled, not likely. Go to Athearn's web site, they even tell you the production schedule for blue box kits. Sheldon
Flashwave The reason Athearn is getting rare is that Horizon is going to relaunch there cars, and quite likely scrap the kit-cars.
The reason Athearn is getting rare is that Horizon is going to relaunch there cars, and quite likely scrap the kit-cars.
Well, the kits going away was speculation, hence the "quite likely". But then,it fits the RTR trend. (Nother topic best avoided) Last I was on the site, Just checked, all the streamline kits except the UNDEC OBS, UNDEC coach are discontinued. The Heavyweights seem to be alright, there were cars marked "Discontinued", (which admittedly is typical of the made in batches buisness plan) and on one of their newsletters, they made a big deal of a discontinuation sale (read:mass close-out) of their coaches and other stuff, (Not necesarily normal for Batch Sales) which was then followed up by a PDF of them re-releasing some of the coaches.
As for availability: My L and not so HS are incredibly light on AThearn RTR coaches, and haven't replenished what of their BB kits are slowly trickling out, I won't argue that there's still alot of product floating around other places though though.
FlashwaveNot like, Are. The coach is based off the original Lightweight Budd coach to be rolled out for Santa Fe. 72ft. I walked one heel-toe. Winders are about right too, though I didn;t measure them. And you can delve into other research from there.
You might have found one car that matches one prototype, but the series is not based on any prototype.
They were designed as "impressions" of Budd cars intended for 4x8 train set type layouts.
It has been commented on this forum and many others, many times that "discontinued" is Athearn speak for "out of stock" even with their newest Genesis items.
Doug, it seems a couple of workers have prostrated themselves on the platform in respect for your train.
Mark
markpierce Doug, it seems a couple of workers have prostrated themselves on the platform in respect for your train. Mark
I thought they were facing east, praying towards Mecca??
chpthrlsdon't meet NMRA weight standards
I have not seen any Athearn blue box car that met NMRA standards; they are all too light. Perhaps this is because most of their designs in this line predated the NMRA weight standard??? The sheet steel weight fits the car, but is too thin. To make it thick enough to meet the weight standard, they would have to redesign the car to make it fit.
George In Midcoast Maine, 'bout halfway up the Rockland branch
These 72' cars were my choice for the LM&E. My radiis go from 24" (few) up to 47".
I have the Caifornia Zephyr (10 car) and the Denver Zephyr (9 car) both are streamline and a (4 car) D&RGW heavyweight local.
What I wish that they would have made in the 72' length is a sleeper with the stepped windows and an observation car with a dome.
Mine are both Athern and Con-Cor. I have enough of them that I will at some point attemp to kitbash the ones that are missing, and as things get closer to the more final detailing will try to get interiors into them. I use the self stick wheel weights for additional weight I use McHenry couplers almost exclusively that are truck mounted and I only have a problem backing in one spot where it is a slight upgrade on a curve.. It is only with a baggage car at the head of the CZ train that is getting the max force going backward. It is in the works for that car to get more weight and steel wheel sets that I believe will solve this problem. I have changed out about 2/3 of my rolling stock with the metals wheel sets. and will continue to do the rest as $$$s permit.
My layout is 17'x13' and just felt that visually they would all look better in the shorter version and I have not been sorry about making that choice.
Johnboy out...................
May the Rails never be Silent.
from Saskatchewan, in the Great White North..
We have met the enemy, and he is us............ (Pogo)
I think they are worth the / your effort!
I’ve got two trains (my CCRY Daylight and Midnight Flyers) that are nothing but the old MDC and Athearn kits that I’ve bashed. I don’t have lighting, but they have diaphragms, window shades, interiors and passengers. I have also done coupler conversions and weighting...They run pretty well.
A lot of people bash Athearn because of their 'generic' modeling, at least in the blue box line. Those who want full detail can pay $40 to $50 for Walthers or Branchline; I am on a budget so $10 or $12 each plus some paint and decals is good enough for me.
The Athearn heavyweights can be bashed into other useful cars, too.
This one is from two baggage cars, using the ends with the large doors, plus some windows from a coach:
Business car Rockhaven is a shortened Athearn observation car:
These "wooden" baggage and express cars are all former Athearn heavyweight Pullmans:
Wayne
Hi!
I've been in HO since the early '60s, and I firmly believe if it wasn't for Athearn and a few other companies, HO might not be anywhere near what it is today. The value for their BB kits was unbelieveable. Even in the mid-'70s, you could get typical freight cars for $2.98, and passenger cars for $4.98. Of course that was "a lot more money" than it is today, but it was still a terrific value.
About 10 years ago I gathered up 13 of the various standard passenger cars lettered for Santa Fe. With additional decals, airbrushing (if I had to redo a car), metal wheelsets, weights, KD couplers, and American Limited diagphrams, I ended up with a pretty nice set of cars. With an ATSF pacific or hudson in front, it really made me smile.
Today, I've got sets of the Walther's Super Chief cars, Budd cars, and even a set of Walther's light and heavy weight IC cars. They are nicely detailed, fairly well scaled, and they truly look great. But the funny thing is, I still get a kick out of running those Athearn cars - perhaps more than the others.
Maybe its because I "built" them, or I've had them for some time, or because its not such a big deal if they break - or perhaps "all of the above".
Oh, if you watch Ebay, they come up for sale all the time.
Mobilman44
ENJOY !
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
From what I understand, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, the Athearn SL baggage and mail cars are based on Santa Fe prototypes, and the rest of the cars are 'generic'. With that out of the way, their "Daylight" painted passenger cars look good--if inaccurate--behind a GS-4. And since it looks like the BLI or Horizon "Daylight" cars are STILL some time away from being manufactured, they'll do pretty nicely as a substitute. I've got a 10-car Athearn "Dayight" and my Balboa GS-4 seems to like them a lot. For the time being, at least.
Just don't get the Vista-Dome, SP never ran them, LOL! They had their own homemade 3/4 domes instead for the Shasta Daylight, San Joaquin and occasionally on the Overland.
But their Pullman-Standard head-end equipment--baggage and mail--look good on ANY standard passenger train. I've got a couple on my otherwise Walther's-equipped 1950 "Royal Gorge" and they track very well and are sufficiently weighted to run at the head of the train. Underbody detail is very sparse, but I'm never under the cars that much. But as Dr. Wayne has shown so strikingly in his photos, they can be 'bashed' into really great passenger cars.
Tom
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
Mark, On a layout as large as this(60'X70') there are so many things to keep up with, that we do occasionally catch employees "Layin Down on the Job"
Flashwave, The club is the Columbia Gorge Model Railroad Club, in Portland, OR. Tuesday Nights are our scheduled club nights, with the First Tuesday of the month Operating Night, and the other three normally designated as Work Nights.
We are open for Public Show the Four weekends every November, both Saturdays and Sundays 10:00am-5:00pm. If You are coming during Nov Show try to call ahead a schedule a VIP Tour under the layout, your knees WONT GET DIRTY, we have a full 6'+ headroom under most of the layout. Dispatching, Standards Repair Bench, electronics room and two large staging yards are located under the layout. Almost always impresses both Joe Public, and Experienced Modelers.
We model the Columbia River Gorge from Portland, OR to Wishram, WA and the Oregon Trunk Line from Wishram to Bend, OR as well as having a Very Nice Logging Division, which has a working "Log Jammer" to unload the Skeleton Log cars into the Mill Pond. Troutdale (in OUR world, anyway) has a working Rotary Dumper (single car) and our scratchbuilt model of Portland's Steel Bridge operates just like the prototype, with the Rail deck lifting independently before the Highway deck, then both lifting together. Portland's Steel Bridge is unique in this feature, where there are many other double deck lift bridges around the world, all the others have the two decks rigidly linked, and lift simultaneously. With all the staging and working yards and both helixes measured as well as the rest of the layout, we have over 3 ACTUAL MILES of track.
Here are a few pics I have handy,
Sorry, I didn't mean to Hijack the thread, I Hope that You Enjoyed the description and photo tour of our club's layout,
I have never found the Athearn BB passenger cars objectionable. I have several sets, both streamline and heavyweight. Sure they are short, and somewhat thin on the detailing, but I can purchase an entire train set of Athearn cars for the cost of one Walthers or Rapido car. Plus they look much better on my layout's curves then the few full length cars I have.
Although not accurate for the NW... these heavyweights still look good behind my J:
And the streamline ones fit right in behind my T1:
Nick
Take a Ride on the Reading with the: Reading Company Technical & Historical Society http://www.readingrailroad.org/
chpthrls and don't meet NMRA weight standards.
and don't meet NMRA weight standards.
First the NMRA doesn't have a weight standard period..What they do have is a Recommend Practice.This is RP20.1 which means its nothing more the a recommendation that a modeler can follow and is outdated according to many modern modelers.I have never followed RP20.1 because its was meant for the old wooden car kits,light plastic cars-like Varneys- that didn't have any or very little weight,cruel plastic wheels etc..
The NMRA has NO manufacturer weight standard period.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"