Well, it IS a pre-production model, they even said the sounds weren't adjusted right. I'll put shiny crossheads in the category of "not finished yet" and hope they fix it. What concerned me more was not tha thte crosshead was shiny, but that it wasn't actually being guided by the guides and kind of flopped back and forth depending on what part of the stroke it was on. Not that I'd be buying one anyway.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I was planning to get atleast one of these. But that was such a huge disappointment. Now I will not buy it. MTH sure isn't making it easy to get started on their stuff.
Magnus
I wrote an email to MTH saying: MTH, I hate to tell you this, but your 9000 class loco sucks. The articulation ruins the loco. I know of several people who were going to buy one, but changed their mind. On your next release, release a smaller engine, like a Harriman 2-6-2 or 2-8-0. I'd definetly buy one. I know of several who would too. Luke
- Luke
Modeling the Southern Pacific in the 1960's-1980's
I was going to purchase one also and see if the air pumps and marker lights could be modified to look like a real 9000, but cancelled my plans when I saw the articulation. They could have produced the model with blind flange drivers on the middle four axles and it probably would have managed 24" to 26" radius.
CZ
CAZEPHYR Magnus I was going to purchase one also and see if the air pumps and marker lights could be modified to look like a real 9000, but cancelled my plans when I saw the articulation. They could have produced the model with blind flange drivers on the middle four axles and it probably would have managed 24" to 26" radius. CZ
CZ, I find it to be a stupid move by MTH to do this. I simply can not get my ahead around why? Well, besides the sales of course. But for me atleast it's a given fact that if I want big engines to look good I need big radius, I use 36" minimum even on industry tracks and in yards. For me that is a sacrifice that I think is needed in order to run these things. But to then take that toy like creature and disturb my sense of realism like that is just absurd. God awful!
The 9000 would have be a gift to us Union Pacific fans and I was under the impression most of the detail work that needed to be done to the model could be kit bashed and the engine would be acceptable, until I viewed the video. Even the air pumps are too small and not mounted correctly on the smoke box. MTH also moved the marker lights down to the front of the smoke box instead of above the front so they could light them.
They seem to believe we will accept anything including the cab chatter, the wreck noise and animation that is common with O scale Lionel and the MTH line. I am convinced they will sell a lot of these to modelers who have no idea of what a 9000 detail really looks like and would be happy if it ran on one half the section of their 027 track.
I had skipped picking up two Sunset 9000's in the past few weeks believing I could make due with the MTH and even thought about selling my Key 9029. No more thoughts about that move, but I will pick up some more of the Sunset models since they are fairly nice overall.
On the subject of Big Boys and articles about them, the new Classic Trains for spring of 2009 has several nice pictures and the article is called : Big Boys by night" There are day shots also, but some real nice pictures are in that article that is not in the Cheyenne book. It is worth the look. the UPHS still has no date for their Big Boy book. The TTT book is out and availble in three sections to cover all of the TTT's. I was not sure if you purchased the TTT Hybrid or brass, but it is a nice model and the 5511 is still in the roundhouse at Cheyenne.
8500HPGASTURBINE CAZEPHYR had skipped picking up two Sunset 9000's in the past few weeks believing I could make due with the MTH and even thought about selling my Key 9029. No more thoughts about that move, but I will pick up some more of the Sunset models since they are fairly nice overall. If you come across them again grab them. I have several Sunset 4-12-2's and can say they are the smoothest running brass I have. If you be patient you can get then at a good price. I have seen them go on Ebay for $500.00 and as much as $950.00. They are bargans. Painted ones a little more. It was an easy engine to airbrush. Mike
CAZEPHYR had skipped picking up two Sunset 9000's in the past few weeks believing I could make due with the MTH and even thought about selling my Key 9029. No more thoughts about that move, but I will pick up some more of the Sunset models since they are fairly nice overall.
If you come across them again grab them. I have several Sunset 4-12-2's and can say they are the smoothest running brass I have. If you be patient you can get then at a good price. I have seen them go on Ebay for $500.00 and as much as $950.00. They are bargans. Painted ones a little more. It was an easy engine to airbrush.
Mike
Mike:
Just a question. What is the minimum radius of those Sunset 9000's? Reason I ask is that I've got several Sunset brass steamers--which I like very much, BTW--and they have VERY close scale tolerances. Even my little brass Southern Pacific 2-8-0 requires at LEAST a 26" radius, though with my 34 and 36" radii it's a happy little camper.
Just curious about those 9000's, though.
Tom
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
I purchased three of them when they first came out in the mid seventies. I believe they cost a little over $200 at that time, but over the years, I sold them off after painting several for customers and one for myself. I purchased the lastest run Key 4-12-2 (9029) in 2004 which might be the most detailed HO model ever produced up to this day. If the Key is not the best, it certainly is one of the best and I was actually thinking about selling it before I viewed the MTH video. I am glad they showed the video.
More of those Sunset 4-12-2's will show up and you are right, they do run well. What did we expect from Samhongsa. Too bad, they stopped producing brass model trains about five years ago.
They need a big radius to run. And a matching turnout to keep them happy. I tell you what, tonight I'll replace the 2 middle drivers with the flangless ones (The Sunset's came with (2) sets of flangless drivers) to see what they will run. I have a feeling that they will turn through a 22" radius with the middle drivers blind.
Let us know how they handle the tight curve with the two blind drivers. I would think they are still very tight on a 22" since the long wheelbase is still a major factor. It will be interesting to know. My best guess is with the two blind drivers installed, 26" to 28" is reasonable.
MTH makes quality locomotives, but this baby is not for me, they never ran on New England railroads. I am still trying to get MTH to make the sports model Berkshire, the 4-6-6T tank engine, and the 4-6-2 Pacific that ran on the B&M lines. Now those I would buy in a heartbeat!! I have their Niagara, it is a thing of beauty, runs unbelievably well.
Dick
No one is saying they do not make quality locomotives, but I was not aware that they made a Niagara in HO. Did they sell you a Mohawk and call it a Niagara, or are you in O scale?
Whenever anyone makes a model and calls it the best and most accurate, I would expect it to be the best for sure. I certainly would purchase a B&M Pacific also since I have been on the one at steamtown and liked it. You might not like that Pacific you are asking for it it turns out to run on 12" radius curves and is an articulated model like the 4-12-2. I think that is the point many of us are thinking. They made a model that many out here really wanted and then short changed the detail instead of working to make it run on a normal radius curve.
They will probably sell a lot of them since many modelers just want that locomotive and will buy it no matter what. Just look at their past offerings. MTH made the Triplex for the Erie locomotive and labled it Virginian also. The Viginian locomotive was completely different including the wheel arangement. It was a 2-8-8-8-4 and the drivers were different size, the boiler was much larger, the tender and cab were completely different, but the MTH model was the same.
The latest GS4 Daylight would have been a great model except the drivers are 77" in scale size and the drawbar is really long. The GS6 model would have been the hit of the Southern Pacific modelers, except it uses the same 77" drivers in scale, but the real one had the 73" drivers. They have a habit of using whatever works and trying to sell it off to us the HO modelers. It has been the normal business practice for the Lionel / MTH O scale tinplate for a long time to use parts and drive assemblies that are close or handy, but we have tried to keep our models as scale as possible.
With that type of marketing practice, the articulated 4-12-2 will be easy for them to sell a lot of them. I just don't agree that this is what I want.
I'd STILL like to know what brainspasm made them come up with the front articulation in the first place. If there was to be any articulation what happened to the tried middle of the chassis or wheels? Even going with an unflanged set of wheels( or 2 sets?) would've made it not so brutal. Then again, maybe the designers in this case were/are brutalists?
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
Oh my god,
just saw the 4-12-2 video and like all of you I was surprised by the ugly articulation of a non-articulated engine. I really don´t understand what they did to that engine! They only had to articulate the drivers but not the whole underbody! That is ruining the look of the engine so much. I bet that Märklin would have made the perfect "non-articulated" HO 4-12-2, since MTH´s technique obviously is still far away from getting such a big rigid frame loco to handle he curves "in one piece"! I´m not a fan of the 4-12-2 but a big fan of the SP and UP 4-10-2´s. If MTH will ever release these locos also in that articulated way, there´s no chance I would ever buy it!
But I really don´t think that MTH will have to worry about the selling of it, there are a lot modelers out there that don´t take things too serious and exact, and maybe they even don´t know that it was not articulated.
Daniel
I am "hoping" that I can remove the flange from one driver set and get it to 36" while "locked in" like the latest Key 4-12-2 does with it's one blind set. I am also pleased that they allow an alternate boiler front with marker lights (non-working) and air pumps in the correct position. I just placed an order for one since they resolved almost all the issues I had with the original design. At least MTH does listen to us. And if they are listening, how about a second set of main drivers so we can choose between regular spoked and boxpok type?
Charles
I think this development speaks well of MTH. Quite a turn around from what I felt was a fairly rigid stance over their decisions about this model when I emailed them several weeks back. It is still a no-go for me because of the DCS problem, and the severed blast pipes just....mmm, nope.....not going to happen.
I feel they should get a lot of credit, original engineering choices asid WRT the aritculation, for attempting to ameliorate the defects, particularly so late in the product's development! Very good show with the nifty locking key!
But I really do feel better about the obvious fact that they are paying attention and wanting to please some of their critics.
Hi all,
I too am reconsidering buying this engine given the changes. I don't like the split exhaust pipes either, but at least it would look right when I get a chance to run on wide radius curves.
BigBoy - FYI, the "cab chatter" on any MTH engine can be turned on and off as a separate feature with DCS or with a DCC stsyem that has enough functions. If you run on DC you can ask your dealer or someone else with DCS or DCC to turn the feature off for you before taking an engine home. The setting will be retained in conventional DC operation.
The changes do indicate MTH is listening to our comments and have made some changes. If the chassis is locked into place, some kind of sleeve could be fitted over the steam pipes to make them look like they are one piece. The added detail does help and the markers corrected makes a big difference at least to me.
Over the last month, I have managed to pick up two 4-12-2's in addition to the Key model I already had so as the game show should be renamed:::::::::::: "The price will have to right"
If I were MTH, I would've just made the chassis articulated in the middle. Might look a little odd, but it wouldn't look bad directly from the side, front, or back.
If the minimum radius is 42", there must not be much side-to-side play in the drive wheels. The middle articulation may have been a better idea (they do it on some large scale steam), but even that can be overdone.
_________________________________________________________________
Darth Santa Fe And what's with the blue interior light, anyway?
And what's with the blue interior light, anyway?
I love that blue light! I don't know why, its not prototypical, but I just do!
A vent, c mon guys five pages and counting, either buy it or not. You guys in ho have it too good as far as engine selection,ive been asking them to do n scale now us guys we need the steam engines, so the next time a new one comes out,just remember us over here in n scale ,we are happy with bachmann spectrum ah they need to make a k4 but im not holding my breath thanks.
rustycoupler A vent, c mon guys five pages and counting, either buy it or not. You guys in ho have it too good as far as engine selection,ive been asking them to do n scale now us guys we need the steam engines, so the next time a new one comes out,just remember us over here in n scale ,we are happy with bachmann spectrum ah they need to make a k4 but im not holding my breath thanks.
We N scalers have to vent more I see? I'm getting the dang thing for the sheer static display OOMPH factor---get people talking about odd designs-----
Any one got this engine yet? I was wondering and have not heard much on the performance and sound quality. Jsut wanted someone to maybe give a review? I want to order the 611 but want to hear a bit more from some one who has one.
Thanks
Sean
So the MTH steamers are out, the J type and the UP 9000 series..........
Anyone got one yet?
Anyone seen a review yet?
Anyone want to give a review?
I own two of MTH's HO steamers and I am still a little skeptical. There are two 9000's at my LHS but he will need to come down from the 549.99 price tag. They are like German sports cars very nice and full of features but very tempermental.
The J Class will essentially be the BLI Paragon version, at least what you can see of it. I would bet the innards are also the same, and that only the harness and decoder/software are different. As long as they are "different" from DCC.........
-Crandell
I got my #9503 early this week. While I haven't had the time to really get into the details yet ( I haven't even installed the couplers), I'm pleased so far. Sounds and appearance are good. I had no problem assigning the cab number to it with my Digitrax Zepher. I did note that it's very easy to fumble finger the function keys and turn the wrong thing off but going by the user manual gets it fixed. I think the front marker lights are too dim so I'm likely going to replace them with he more properly positioned dummy versions provided. I was a little disappointed to see that the boiler front sometimes won't snap back into straight alignment after a slight curve but I plan to test the locking key to see if it really makes the engine require a 42" minimum radius. I have a 36" radius loop that I would really like to run the 4-12-2 on.
Charles W.