Over-weathering

[jfugate]

Speaking of Santa Fe warbonnets, I was watching a video a while back, on Cajon I believe, with the 4449 steamer in front of two freshly washed SF warbonnets. The train went into a tunnel and the engineer of the 4449 sanded the flews while in the tunnel and threw soot all over those nice clean warbonnets!

Guess the ol' SP / SF rivalry isn't dead after all .... [:)]

[orsonroy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by robmik

To Ray Breyer ;

Your intentionally inflammatory comment, classifying John Allen's work as "toy train playing" goes beyond reasonable debate, as was obviously your intent.

You insult the man, his memory, and untold tens of thousands of hobbyists, past and present, who hold John Allen's model railroading innovation, skill, philosophy, and enormous contribution to the hobby, in the highest regard.

You are a nobody, but a nobody who has some sort of axe to grind against modelers who have achieved something you never will.[V]

A cup of All-Bran in your diet, each and every day, on a permanent basis, might mitigate at least some of the effects of your condition. It will, I fear, never cure it completely. [xx(]

Mike

So what IS your problem today? So I said Allen played with toy trains. Frankly, we all do in this hobby. I would have called him an HO tinplater, but that isn't really accurate either, considering his stuff held to better scale fidelity than tinplate.

If you read my posts, I also called Allen a fantastic artist. He was, and is still probably one of the best the hobby has ever seen, at least for his generation (there are a lot of newer modelers that can produce much better cars, engines, scenery, etc. these days, but they don't have to do it from scratch. And those that do, like today's Westerfields, Hodinas and Roses are light years better than Allen).

Sorry, no axe to grind. I never met Allen, Sellios, or any of the other modelers we've mentioned in this thread, and I never will. I have no problem with anyone participating in this hobby in any way they see fit. It IS a hobby. What I do have a problem with is what we CALL this hobby. Model Railroading implies modeling. Are people that do no modeling really model railroaders? It also implies railroads. Are those who don't actually model a real railroad really model railroaders? (how can you model a railroad that doesn't exist?). Allen was a fine artist, craftsman, and modeler. Was he any good at representing anything but fantasyland? Nope. That's the truth, which is impossible to debate. Sorry.

And going beyond reasonable debate? Sort of like your name calling? And speaking of names, at least I'm posting mine, "Mike".

[Anonymous]

Well, this might be what the Britts would call a "bit of a sticky wickett". Tom D, I like the model! Joe F, how do we say your last name? The upset folks headen down this track, We havin' some fun now!!

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by deschane

Well, this might be what the Britts would call a "bit of a sticky wickett". Tom D, I like the model! Joe F, how do we say your last name? The upset folks headen down this track, We havin' some fun now!!

Mr Deshane...grab the sticks, I'll bring the marshmellows......we got flames going here and next door at Trains......sit back enjoy the show...[:)]

[Roadtrp]

Wow!! The flames here aren't ANYTHING compared with the 5 alarm fire next door.

I don't know the history, so I shouldn't comment. But it seems that ol' DOGGY is getting his butt nailed to the wall for the unforgivable crime of being young.

I'm sure glad I was never young. [;)]

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Roadtrp

Wow!! The flames here aren't ANYTHING compared with the 5 alarm fire next door.

I don't know the history, so I shouldn't comment. But it seems that ol' DOGGY is getting his butt nailed to the wall for the unforgivable crime of being young.

I'm sure glad I was never young. [;)]

Well..sometimes the young ones post something and they get beat up, learn from it and go on. Doggy keeps poking sticks through the bars and his allies are finding it harder and harder to stick up for him. There's being young and there's being young.

[BentnoseWillie]

I agree that one has to temper weathering efforts so as to not "caricature" the prototype. Unless it's a unit train, a cut of cars with varying degrees of weathering patterns and colours looks a lot better to my eye than a solid train of the same colours in the same patterns. That's why I try to weather equipment singly, or in small groups of similar cars (such as scrap gons or ballast hoppers).

I tend to weather to match what I see and photograph. In this part of the country the only shiny freight cars are those less than a year out of the paint shop or carbuilder. Everything else is at the least dulled from paint oxidation, and more often carries at least a light coat of dirt below sill level. Also, at least 30% of the cars have at least one tag, and about one in twenty has more elaborate graffiti.

As to the statement that only cars that sit still get dirty - on the contrary. Dirt comes from motion. Hereabouts it's mainly dust and mud kicked up by the wheels, and precipitating diesel exhaust on the roof.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by orsonroy
.... What I do have a problem with is what we CALL this hobby. Model Railroading implies modeling. Are people that do no modeling really model railroaders? It also implies railroads. Are those who don't actually model a real railroad really model railroaders? (how can you model a railroad that doesn't exist?). Allen was a fine artist, craftsman, and modeler. Was he any good at representing anything but fantasyland? Nope. That's the truth, which is impossible to debate. Sorry.
And going beyond reasonable debate? Sort of like your name calling? And speaking of names, at least I'm posting mine, "Mike".

What IS my problem yesterday ?
That would be you, and everyone like you.
You represent the new brand of elitistism in the hobby, a collection of jackbooted revisionists, categorizing everyone who does not espouse your particular values and beliefs as something less than yourself. True to this genre, and according to your twisted sense of what is right, you infer, as quoted above, that all freelancers are "not really model railroaders".

I am just an average, unknown freelancer with some prototypical leanings, much like a huge number of model railroaders.Most of my inspiration over the past 50-odd years came from the truly legendary hobbyists, who were pretty well ALL freelancers, and who made vast contributions in mostly unpaid time and effort, to the hobby, ensuring the growth and development that we currently ALL may enjoy.
Their reward for this service, in this and other forums infected by the elitists, is all too frequently to be derided in thought, slandered in speech, and libelled in print.[xx(]

If "Steam is the only choice", Mr. Breyer, may yours forever be superheated and applied posterially.
Mike Robertson.

[AntonioFP45]

Hey Amigos,

Let's continue to enjoy and put the "Flaming" to rest. BTW: Doggy is o.k and has apoligized on the forum that some of you were referring to.

Onward with the hobby![:D][^][8D][:)][8)][4:-)][tup][swg][tup]

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by AntonioFP45

Hey Amigos,

Let's continue to enjoy and put the "Flaming" to rest. BTW: Doggy is o.k and has apoligized on the forum that some of you were referring to.

Onward with the hobby![:D][^][8D][:)][8)][4:-)][tup][swg][tup]

I'm not flaming Doggy. But I am done defending him. I am a big supporter of youth on the forums, but everyone has a line. There have been several young folks on these forums that have been involved with issues with other members, no names, but most seem to eventually find their happy medium. He did apologize, I will give him credit for that. That was a step in the right direction, but a step in the right direction and walking down the path are different things...We'll wait and see.

Now back to the discussion at hand. Had this been an actual emergency, you would have been directed where to tune for official information. ..........

[rogerhensley]

Ok, let's get a redirect here. Over the years I have visited a number of layouts from flatlanders to some fantastic sceniced layouts. I can say in all honesty, that I never saw a layout that I couldn't find something there to like. There have been fantasy layouts. toy like layouts, and some very specific prototype layouts, and a large number of freelanced railroads. Yes, some were bright and shiny, and others were heavily weathered. They all reflected the owner's ideas and all had something good to offer. That's model railroading, folks.

I merely pointed out that MR seems to focus more on overweathered layouts, locos and rolling stock than is appropriate for the various periods represented. Yep, I still believe that. I do want to say that flaming each other over someone's model choices is really out of place. I did not start this to flame, just to make a point about an aspect of the hobby. So, let's go on from here.

[Anonymous]

I agree with you Roger about the flaming going on here. I think it's out of place. It always seems to start by someone taking a fortress like stance on their legitimate opinion of a subject. Then someone else comes along and has legitimate counter point and thus, it begins.

However, I disagree with you about the models in MR being over weathered. Maybe you could email a specific instance of what you feel representative of over weathering and I will look and see what I think. I don't doubt that there are examples, I just don't think it is a general trend. Furthermore (I am not trying to besmirch your good name or under cut your knowledge of model railroading or real railroading) I want to be able to weather my cars and locos the way I want to weather them and I don't understand how this can cause you any concerns! Since you brought this subject to life, I have addressed this question to you.

[dharmon]

Along the lines of what Mr Deshane stated, I think that folks tend to get ruffled when hardline statements get made. I tend to believe (and quite naively, I'm sure) that we all appreciate the differences in the hobby and individual interpretation...from rivet counters to snap track circle on the floor, whether we follow that style or not. But frequently stuff gets thrown around and statements made that cause strife, because the take away is that whatever style is wrong....when there really is no right or wrong in a hobby. A couple of examples recently .....Malcom Furlow and Dave Barrow...just about as opposite extremes as you can get..both topics have generated heated debate. Now I venture to guess only a handful of us have adopted thier styles as their own, so that means that the rest of us fall somewhere between, but folks have no problem saying that they are doing it wrong or don't merit exposure.....I don't model garden railways, but seeing the article a few months back about the guy in Canada (married to the Better or Worse cartoonist) was neat, just as reading about Furlow or Barrow, though I haven't adoted their styles either, or John Allens, or many of the "greats". But I like to see their work to draw from.

Weathering is like spice, it's done to the modeler's taste to represent his or her interpretation or goal.

[rogerhensley]

Two examples are the MR May 2004 - Roque Bluffs boxcars and the ATSF Dash 8 in Trackside Photos...

[AggroJones]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rogerhensley

.... the ATSF Dash 8 in Trackside Photos...

That was excellent. When I first saw it, I thought "Bravo!".

[jfugate]

QUOTE: Originally posted by deschane

... Joe F, how do we say your last name?

We keep it simple ... Few-gait. Some folks try to call me Foo-gah-tey, or Foo-git. In school with a name that starts with f-u, well, you can imagine how inventive kids can get.

So many people have done the Foo-gah-tey pronunciation that it's become an inside family joke. My wife calls me Jo-sep-ee Foo-gah-tey when she wants to get my attention -- or just Jo-sep-ee (Josepi) for short.

[FJ and G]

I like my trains, grits and women over-weathered.

Dave Vergun

[the-big-blow]

Price of the rolling stock and engines has become weathering prohibitive. I am more likely to gringe up a model I painted.