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powering a Walthers Rotary Dump

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  • From: Indiana
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powering a Walthers Rotary Dump
Posted by Flashwave on Wednesday, January 21, 2009 10:20 PM

A long time ago in a Galaxy far far away, I remember seeing an article on powering the Walthers Rotary Coal Dump. But I can't find it now. I've been in the MR Mag indext, to no avail. Does anyone know of an article taking about doing this and offer any pointers

-Morgan

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  • From: Martinez, CA
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Posted by markpierce on Wednesday, January 21, 2009 10:35 PM

No, but you are really, really asking for trouble.  First, do your couplers allow them to be rotated when the dump is operated?

Be practical and place the rotary dump in a semi-enclosed building and let it mask the fact you aren't actually rotating the darn thing.

Mark

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Posted by BlueHillsCPR on Wednesday, January 21, 2009 11:22 PM

It seems like it will be quite a job to tackle, but I have seen a video of one in operation.

Paul Mack motorized a Walthers Rotary Dumper.  I don't think it ever made it into a layout though.

Paul doesn't really provide a thorough explanation of how to motorize the dumper. This thread may give you some ideas how to proceed.  Paul apparently made his own rotating couplers but rotary couplers are available from Sergent Engineering as well.

Good luck.  Be sure to let us know how you make out with it.

 

Regards,

Kevin

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Posted by jasperofzeal on Thursday, January 22, 2009 1:30 AM
...

TONY

"If we never take the time, how can we ever have the time." - Merovingian (Matrix Reloaded)

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Posted by Flashwave on Thursday, January 22, 2009 8:13 PM

BlueHillsCPR
but rotary couplers are available from Sergent Engineering as well.

That's what I'm using.

Just to tell, The Dump comes with a plastic toothing on the dumper itself, and two small plastic gears. I think there's a shaft to go through the gears. I can tell you now that both Dad and I were afraid of chewing the plastic teeth up. There's just no motor. Have thought about hand cranking it too. Bu where it's sitting, that requires a long crank.

-Morgan

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Posted by ford86 on Thursday, January 22, 2009 10:39 PM

I have about 60 cars equipped with the sergent rotary couplers, the way we powered it was with a old switch motor with kitbashed mounting and linkage. it worked fairly well the first 2 or 3 trains of 25 cars that got dumped....after that we ran into the problem with the coal material we were using was clogging the gears and eventualy worn them down, overall the dumper lasted about 10 trains of 25.

Unfortuanly we were using a black sand blasting material for its weight which also chewed up the gears so it now requires a rebuild, a soft coal looking material (rubber maybe) would reduce this problem but if you can afford it the way to go would be to get the end pieces cnc'd out of metal

 

One other problem we ran into was the parts which the dumper ends fit into in the bottom of the kit would occasionaly open up and would not hold the dumper in.  A simple nut and bolt would keep those closed

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Posted by BlueHillsCPR on Friday, January 23, 2009 12:02 AM

Those Sergent couplers look pretty sweet.  I had never heard of them before but now I wonder why more people are not using them.  They are even more prototypical in looks and operation than Kadee, are they not?

I am sure there has to be a way to work around the few problems with automating this dumper.  I would like to be able to do something similar on my layout eventually.

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Posted by ford86 on Friday, January 23, 2009 10:25 AM

The sergent couplers are designed to be a direct replacement for the coupler assembly on the e&c/lbf cars, the down side it that the dummy rotary can only mate with a dummy sergent coupler or a scale kadee coupler.

One problem we ran into with the cars were when we first installed the dummy sergent coupler to mate with the rotarys there was not enough play for the coupler to swing back and forth on the non rotary end (would derail) so we replaced them all with scale kadee's which greatly improved the trackability of the cars, along with that we also had to fine tune the truck lean and make sure they were completely free moving.  In addition we had to get the car up to 6-8 ounches total empty by filling the bottom tubs with lead weight or metal shot otherwise the empty strings would derail.

 

The minimum curve radius was 34 inches

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Posted by Flashwave on Friday, January 23, 2009 2:43 PM

BlueHillsCPR

Those Sergent couplers look pretty sweet.  I had never heard of them before but now I wonder why more people are not using them.  They are even more prototypical in looks and operation than Kadee, are they not?

And stronger. (My slightly educated opinion anyway) It's held closed by Gravity, not a spring that can will work itself out eventually.

On the coupling itself, Sargent refers to being able to sometimes couple up dummy and live couplers (planned to be used on full roaster anyway), is this true? Could/should we use live Sargents on the B end of the car, or whichever end is not the rotator?

-Morgan

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Posted by Packer on Friday, January 23, 2009 3:12 PM

Morgan, the prototypes only have one rotary coupler on the end that's colored differently.

I've though about having some sort of coal operations other that a loads-in loads-out powerplant, because I wanted to model the empty part. I haven't quite figured out how to make it so I could empty cars that aren't normally dumped (most of mine are 3 bays or 100 tons that have doors on the bottom, don't have any coal gons) and what to use for coal. The problem I have with the sergants is that the rotary ones aren't made to be universal. If they were, I'd probably have some coalporters (and some SD40-2)

I guess this'll work for ore trains too.

Vincent

Wants: 1. high-quality, sound equipped, SD40-2s, C636s, C30-7s, and F-units in BN. As for ones that don't cost an arm and a leg, that's out of the question....

2. An end to the limited-production and other crap that makes models harder to get and more expensive.

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Posted by Flashwave on Friday, January 23, 2009 3:15 PM

Packer

Morgan, the prototypes only have one rotary coupler on the end that's colored differently.

Right, But there's still two couplers. The rotary, which on the model is a dummy, and the non rotary, which I want to know if could be a live and still couple to the rotaries

Packer
I guess this'll work for ore trains too.

Not so much. Ore cars are so much shorter, you'd have to make sure that the cars fit perfectly on the dumper, lest you try to tilt half a car and dump the whole train on it's side. I suppose cest possible if the all fit right. Walthers did also promote this for woodchips

-Morgan

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  • From: Shalimar. Florida
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Posted by Packer on Friday, January 23, 2009 3:36 PM

Flashwave

Right, But there's still two couplers. The rotary, which on the model is a dummy, and the non rotary, which I want to know if could be a live and still couple to the rotaries

Well, I think I found the answer on their FAQ page:

"Q: Will Sergent Engineering Couplers mate with conventional HO scale dummy couplers?

A: Sometimes. Most (but not all) dummy couplers are designed using the profile defined by the NMRA's RP-21.1 issued in 1957. This contour is about 25% larger than an actual scaled down version of the prototype. A little creative work with a file can usually result in a dummy knuckle that will reliably mate with the prototype contour used by the Sergent Engineering Couplers. The Glatzl dummy couplers offered by Sergent Engineering do however mate with Sergent Engineering's operational couplers with no modifications."

Flashwave

Not so much. Ore cars are so much shorter, you'd have to make sure that the cars fit perfectly on the dumper, lest you try to tilt half a car and dump the whole train on it's side. I suppose cest possible if the all fit right. Walthers did also promote this for woodchips

Maybe the using rotaries on ore cars will need thinking and tinkering.

Vincent

Wants: 1. high-quality, sound equipped, SD40-2s, C636s, C30-7s, and F-units in BN. As for ones that don't cost an arm and a leg, that's out of the question....

2. An end to the limited-production and other crap that makes models harder to get and more expensive.

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • 133 posts
Posted by ford86 on Friday, January 23, 2009 6:50 PM
The sergent rotarys will mate to a live coupler, the scale #58 kadee coupler and the #5 will not
  • Member since
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  • From: Indiana
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Posted by Flashwave on Saturday, January 24, 2009 5:34 PM

Packer

Flashwave

Not so much. Ore cars are so much shorter, you'd have to make sure that the cars fit perfectly on the dumper, lest you try to tilt half a car and dump the whole train on it's side. I suppose cest possible if the all fit right. Walthers did also promote this for woodchips

Maybe the using rotaries on ore cars will need thinking and tinkering.

I do need to make a correction on something. Hanging off the rotay platform will not dump the whole trian, but it might dump a car in the wrong place. Let me see how Ore cars fit on my dumper, if it works then your clear to get one, if not, you aren't out any $$$

-Morgan

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