I took a drive down to the Philly area to check out the WGH show...mistake #1 today. I'm generally not a complainer...so I'll just relate my experience. I would love to hear from anyone else that was there today. The expo center this was held at is brand new, and was converted from some kind of manufacturing facility previously.
First, from the PA turnpike to the exit for the expo center is about 4 miles via route 422. The 4-lane highway was at a dead standstill for all 4 of those miles. I took a detour via GPS because I thought there was an accident. Well, I get to the road the Expo center is on and there's no accident...that traffic was ALL people waiting to get off the exit to get to the show, with a combination of through traffic on the highway caught up in the off ramp mess. Both directions of 422 (4 lanes total) were backed up at this exit. This was due to the 2-lane streets in the area not being designed to hold the traffic that this expo center has generated. Throw in some unsynchronized lights, very poor parking around the center and you have complete and total gridlock.
So I wait about 30 minutes in traffic to turn into the approach lane for the expo center. Get through that mess and wind up parking 1/4 mile down the road from the actual parking area for the expo center at a movie theatre. The parking area for the expo center should have been at least 4x larger to handle this volume of people. It was pure chaos trying to park.
So we make our way to the door, and get stuck in a line about 6 abreast outside the door and it is just not moving. 30 minutes later, we get inside the door and see nothing but pure chaos inside the door. Nothing is moving. The few people that were trying to leave were saying things like "there's just no room for all these people waiting to get inside this place" and "its a-hole to elbow everywhere in there, I'm outta here!". At this point, the show has been open for 3 hours...this is not the initial rush! There are so many people trying to get in that nobody was getting out. After waiting in line for a grand total of 45 minutes, we left.
So I spent about 5 hours today for a net gain of nothing. I cannot figure out why this venue was chosen for this event. Fort Washington expo center would have been far better, and it is relatively close to this location. Someone really dropped the ball there, or their advertising was just way too good. I thought about going tomorrow, but the thought of possibly getting stuck in that same mess makes me want to stick a dull #11 x-acto in my eye
So I guess I'll just stick to swap meets from now on.
Sorry for your experience. Looking on the bright side, maybe the economy is turning around. Better yet, maybe interest in the hobby is picking up.
On the otherhand, maybe a chance to get out of the house on a winter weekend. I'd like to go in Nashville, but may have a conflict next weekend.
That is the one thing I was discussing with my girlfriend during the hours we had to kill waiting today. It is obvious that the hobby is doing quite well to draw this kind of crowd to an event like this. Makes me glad in a way.
The day wasn't a total loss...we stopped at the KOP mall and went to a Lego Store for the first time. Those places are great
Traffic was horrible, needs better planing on that issue.
Not to bad parking as we arrived after 12 noon ,( I have had tp park further away when going to walmart )
Food court needs improvement.
Fort washington expo center is closed was sold to have an office complex built on the site.
Other wise the show was full and the family enjoyed it
Rich
I know the area well. Whoever planned that has NO CLUE about traffic which is truly amazing as it's the same firm who runs the Reading Expo Center. Anyone from aroudn here who has ever driven the area know there is extremely poor traffic flow in that area and the Oaks exit is marginal at best.
Compound by A) it was the very first show in the new place and b) there was also a gun show going on at the same location.
The VF Convention Center wouldn't have been much better, considering the lane closures and narrowing of the access roads for some sort of exit realignment that has been going on for well over a year now. Oh the waste and corruption..
It continually amazes me that we get poor designs like this from people who are supposedly experts at traffic flow and traffic engineering. I really think these people get their knowledge from a Cracker Jack box, otherwise how is it that ordinary people with no training in that area can see the flaws all the time? Always the excuse is that there was no other land available to make better traffic lanes or something. Yeah, right.
Perhaps now that they have seen how it (doesn't) work they will alter things before the next large show. We'll see.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I also spent 2 1/2 hours getting to the "new expo center" when the normal ride is a half hour. Not only does the expo location totally suck, they also had a Gun show at the same location. Duh!!! I'm not one for traffic but this one had my blood pressure off the charts.
At the entrance the original post was right on. The actual problem was that they didn't identify the ticket booth location. What wound up happening is that there was a wall of people coming in, trying ot go in, and finding out that the ticket booths were behind them. Those people had to go back through the wall of baby strollers and other angry people which made it a log jam. Hey and after finally getting in after 3 hours there was a bathroom. Great!!! It only had one stall and 2 regular toilets. Another 20 minute line.
The actual train show portion was actually very good when you finally got in. Some very good layouts and displays. The food court was a picnic table with a half hour line to get a pretzel. I can say hands down that that is the last show I go to in Oaks, PA. To say the experience sucked would be like giving broke back mountain an academy award in my books. (That's extremely bad by the way)
Springfield PA
Traffic was a big pain . Expo center is new this is one of teh first shows there so local cops have no idea what to expect. A gun show was also running at the same time so that added to the mess. There are other ways to get into the Expo center as I used one and simply drove in with no lines at 11 :15 am while rt 422 was backed up 3-4 miles. We waited in line outside for about 15 minurtes and it wa crowded inside !!! Very little traffic control and way too many strollers with idiots pushing them like plows !!!
No other convention centers exist in this area any more Fort Washington is gone and Valley Forge has been downsized to make it unisable for anything like this. Only other option is in downtown Philly and then you have the union idiots down there to contend with if you wnat to sell anything. I had a good time saw some manufacturers and talked with a few. Not many vendors selling what I was looking for but a close for me show 30 minutes away. I would go back again. Hopefully they will learn from the experience. ---------------------- Ken McCorry
The traffic backup on 422 actually made the 10:00 news last night. They also had a blurb on the show as well. It probably will not be as bad today, with the church crowd and the Eagles playing at 4:30. I'm not interested in finding out for sure though
Some club members and I attended a train show in Atlanta back in November and we had to park a couple hundred yards from the parking lot. One of the guys said there must be a Victoria's Secret convention going on also for there to be that many people. Turns out there was a gun show next door.
Darn!
Jarrell
Wow! I live in Jersey and had thought about going to Phili to see that show, glad I didn't! It would have spent all day getting there for nothing! This is my first show and I'm sure it would have been my last. I decided instead to go to San Antonio next month and see the show there. Actually, I already planned this, I have friends in San Antonio. The convention center there is huge and I can walk to it from the hotel. I think a big plus is getting tickets a head of time. Yes, there are shows here in Jersey but this gives me an excuse for a short vacation.
Bring the show to Charlotte. The LYNX light rail runs right through the middle of the convention center. The stop is right across the street from the door.
This image of the entry hall of the convention center was taken out the window of the light rail as it passed through the convention center.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
Same deal with Atlantic City. The convention hall is humongous, and NJT has rail service directly to the center. Again, you would have to deal with the hoop jumping due to the union...but it may be worth it compared to what I saw yesterday.
Right after the election, gun sales took a big jump. A lot of people are concerned that the new administration will restrict firearms sales, so they're stocking up now. It would be interesting to know how much of the traffic, parking and crowd issues were for the guns, and how much for the trains.
Still, it is a good sign when a train show draws a large crowd.
"Nobody goes there anymore. It's too crowded." -- Yogi Berra
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Well, other than the union issues, the Philly convention center is also easy to get to - down in the basement is the SEPTA Market East Station! When the NMRA convention was there, I wasn't crazy enough to drive into center city Philadelphia - I took a SEPTA train in from Lansdale. Quite painless. Now if they'd just get off their collective butts and reactivate train service from Reading to Philly - I'd take the train every time to avoid driving that mess that is 422. Best was being stuck behind a car proudly proclaiming via bumper sticker that they support rails to trails, particularly the one that turned the former PRR line to Reading into one big trail. And WHY are we sitting here stuck in this non-moving traffic just because people are scared of going around curves? Because of people like YOU!
I went yesterday, and snuck in the back door, through VF Park, so I had no problem with traffic. Parking was a mess though. I went late enough that once inside, the crowds were manageable, but it was the most crowded show I've seen.
Drove by today on my way home from work, and there was almost no traffic on 422.
Nick
Take a Ride on the Reading with the: Reading Company Technical & Historical Society http://www.readingrailroad.org/
I must say the woodland scenics guy had the grand children eating out of his hand by letting the make their own display.
he was awesome with them
Next week the kids and I will be trying the starter kit to make rocks
Apparently the crowd was not nearly as bad on Sunday, and I heard they had 27,000 through on Saturday alone!
Of all the show's I've been at, WGH is the best I've been to. It hasn't been in my area for years, but it blows the socks off the Greenberg shows. Waiting for it to come back soon!
-Tom
Regarding the Rails to Trails people comment. One back way into the Oaks Convention center uses one of the ex PRR concrete viaducts. The rr used to run right between the ex BF Goodrich plant and The Standard Steel plant where the show was located. If the PRR line was still in service it would run right thru the middle of the new convention center !!! Oh well thats profress I guess. ---- Ken McCorry
Interesting posts--I need to scope out the Nashville venue for February to make sure something like this doesn't happen there. Driving 4 hours just to get there! Jamie
CLICK HERE FOR THE CSX DIXIE LINE BLOG
I, as a vendor at shows, would be currious to know how many of the estimated 27,000 people that attended actually spent any money. It has been my experience that with crowds that big the sales do not reflect an increase in spending. In fact I can almost guarantee from experience that my sales at a show like that would hardly be higher than at a small local show. Most people who attend these shows while pushing strollers are just there to get out of the house and give the kids something to do. In fact, at the last show I did, I heard one father say to his kids..."no, we are not here to spend money. Your mother wanted me to get you kids out of the house so she could get some stuff done." Again, I would like to hear from some vendors as to how the show was. That is the real acid test.
Worlds Greatest Hobby on Tour is about promoting the hobby. They expect that most of the people attending are just curious. They hope it will kindle the fire. Unless your product is Thomas the Tank Engine, those curious people will probably not be shopping. However, you will also get people like us who go to ALL the train shows. Browsing for bargains or things that are not readily available in the retail market is the reason we go. The number of shoppers is probably similar, regardless of the attendance numbers at the show.
Unfortunately, I no longer expect to find bargains at train shows, so I don't fill my wallet with cash before walking in the door. Many of the tables are full MSRP, and I get a better deal at my LHS.
Instead, I look for the small stuff. One of the regulars here in New England, My Dads Trains, has a wall of detail parts. It's great to browse through and find those little items that aren't worth ordering online, but seem like such a treasure once you have them in your hand. Another guy has rummage boxes full of animal figures and other unboxed items.
I do look at used items, like beat up flat cars and cabeese, that I can pick up for a couple of dollars and refurbish. Lately, though, all I find on those tables is junk with Talgo trucks and horn hooks.
Maybe the dealers think they need to charge MSRP to cover their expenses, but I would think they would do better by reducing their profit margin and making it up with larger volume. It would certainly get more people to spend money at shows if they could find stuff at 20% off once in a while.
Since I was at the show all weekend with our "O" modular layout, a few observations:
The old Ft. Washington shows were lucky to get 10,000 paid admissions...this show got 45,000!
Having a gun show going on at the same time sure did'nt help, traffic or parking-wise.
I think this show was mainly a cheap day out for the family. Tons of kids, but very few people seemed to be buying anything except Thomas the Tank Engine stuff.
There will be a Greenberg show at this Expo Center in August. That will be more of a "normal" show. When Ft. Washington closed, Greenberg "moved" to Reading. It was a great site, but it just was not drawing "train people" from the Phila metro area (again, it was mainly local family outings).
pike-62 I, as a vendor at shows, would be currious to know how many of the estimated 27,000 people that attended actually spent any money. It has been my experience that with crowds that big the sales do not reflect an increase in spending. In fact I can almost guarantee from experience that my sales at a show like that would hardly be higher than at a small local show. Most people who attend these shows while pushing strollers are just there to get out of the house and give the kids something to do. In fact, at the last show I did, I heard one father say to his kids..."no, we are not here to spend money. Your mother wanted me to get you kids out of the house so she could get some stuff done."
I, as a vendor at shows, would be currious to know how many of the estimated 27,000 people that attended actually spent any money. It has been my experience that with crowds that big the sales do not reflect an increase in spending. In fact I can almost guarantee from experience that my sales at a show like that would hardly be higher than at a small local show. Most people who attend these shows while pushing strollers are just there to get out of the house and give the kids something to do. In fact, at the last show I did, I heard one father say to his kids..."no, we are not here to spend money. Your mother wanted me to get you kids out of the house so she could get some stuff done."
Sadly, that's absolutely correct. Coming during the holiday season, as it did in Philly's case, the WGH show's attendance was undoubtedly far more a reflection of "something holiday associated" to see and a day out for the family if nothing else then to view what most considered an aspect of Christmas that today belongs to the fading memories of the parents', or even the grandparents', childhood. I'm afraid that it's viewed far more with a nostalgia, or "A Christmas Story", association, than anything provoking ideas of becoming a hobbyist.
Bolstering this take, I noted that most of the media coverage regarding the show seemed to center around the displays of vintage Lionel, particularly the standard gauge trains, which the media went to lengths to indicate was part of a long vanished era. Modern HO scale models and the potential viability of the hobby today seemed to have hardly received any mention.
CNJ831
Shows in Tucson, Arizona that used to be called the GATS but now have a different name, have been cancelled for the past 3 years because they schedule it the same weekend as the Gem & Mineral Show that draws vendors and visitors from all over the world, and the hobby vendors could not get motel rooms within 100 miles. The last time they were able to hold one I wound up parking nearly 1/2 mile away and then had to wander around for a couple of hours looking for my truck because I couldn't remember where I had parked. DUH!
pike-62, as a vendor at shows, would be currious to know how many of the estimated 27,000 people that attended actually spent any money.
As was mentioned, the purpose of this show was to promote the hobby, but what the bead person had to do with trains I don't know. I looked at the list of displayers on line and had no intention of going, but a last minute phone call from a friend asking me if I wanted to go along changed my mind. I should have stuck to my guns and stayed home. There was very little in the way of HO sellers there, and what there was was (IMO) not worth stopping to look at.
I did purchase a $2 set of miniature screwdrivers, mainly because I dropped and broke the plastic case of the set I already own. Actually after the $10 admission, the $6 lunch, and the $8 dinner, the screwdrivers cost me $26 dollars. Oh, well. The cost of camaraderie and friendship.
The one good thing that made the show worthwhile was that I got to speak to an Athearn rep who actually knew what I was talking about concerning an elusive handrail stanchion for one of the new SD40-2s. He gave me his card and asked me to e-mail him. I'll do that tomorrow and see what happens.
I e-mailed my original post to the people at WGH on tour, and I got a reply today. I thought I would share their side with you all.
WGH on TourLet me apologize for the situation you encountered. As you may be aware we were the very first event in the new expo center. Clearly our attendance on Saturday overwhelmed the infrastructure that supports the expo center. We have sponsored 20 WGH shows in the past 5 years and our largest Saturday attendance to date was 18,000 people, in Oaks about 25,000 people attended on Saturday and thousands more couldn't get their because of the traffic. We have discussed with the expo center the various items that need to be improved for future public events, including Interstate access, traffic direction, widening road access, parking, parking direction, washrooms, ticket selling and lobby layout, concessions, and signage. We had planned for the actual show to be able to handle 15,000-20,000 people in attendance on Saturday, at 25,000 people the show becomes overly congested which makes it difficult to enjoy the show.We appreciate you taking the time to write and we are committed that our future events will avoid these type of problems.WGH on Tour
Oh, and I sent it to both people in charge of that expo center, and got nothing back.
We had planned for the actual show to be able to handle 15,000-20,000 people in attendance on Saturday, at 25,000 people the show becomes overly congested which makes it difficult to enjoy the show. I wanted to let the readers of this forum know the facts the good, the bad and the ugly. The Saturday attendance was beyond anything we anticipated. We are committed that our future events will avoid these type of problems. While we will not return to the Philadelphia area for 5 to 10 years, we will be cognizant of the remarkable interest in that area and will insure we have an appropriate venue.
The following is a draft of a press release than will be sent to various media in the near future.
Thank you for you support and we hope you all continue to enjoy our wonderful hobby
Dave Swanson
Chairman, WGH on Tour
The World’s Greatest Hobby on Tour was the inaugural event at the new Greater Philadelphia Expo Center on January 3 and 4, 2009. The show attracted over 40,000 people for the weekend. On Saturday 24,690 people attended the show and on Sunday 15,562 people visited the show for a weekend total of 40,152 people.
The World’s Greatest Hobby on Tour is a model railroad show designed to appeal to the masses and to introduce the general public to the hobby in an exciting, family-oriented atmosphere. The show featured over 20 huge operating model railroads, all the leading Model Railroad manufacturers and retailers offering everything needed to run a model railroad. In the 120,000 sqft. of exhibit halls there were family oriented attractions including the Walt Disney Railroad Story and trains kids could run and ride.
While the show was a raging success it did overwhelm the expo center and the surrounding infrastructure. While almost 25,000 people attended on Saturday, thousands more tried to attend but couldn’t due to the massive traffic jam on the roads to the show. Local traffic radio reported over a 5 mile back up on the route to the show and patrons reported traffic delays in excess of 2 hours to exit the interstate.
Show Chairman Dave Swanson said, “The amazing attendance of this show, proves there is still a tremendous interest in model trains”. He further said,” While we try to prepare for large crowds by having wide aisles and a large amount of staff, we were totally stunned by the Saturday attendance.”
The World’s Greatest Hobby on Tour has now sponsored 20 shows and has had over 500,000 people attend. The remaining 2009 destinations for the show are Nashville, TN., San Antonio, TX. Cleveland, OH, and Seattle- Tacoma, WA. For more information contact Dave Swanson or Randy Bachmann.