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Your Mixed Trains

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Posted by markpierce on Saturday, May 8, 2010 3:46 PM

markpierce

markpierce

Yeah, I drove along it some eight or ten years ago and the track (rail and ties) had been pulled.  The former Mina yard was a bare expanse.  The freight depot was still standing, barely.

Finally found my photo of the Mina freight house.  I'd be surprised if it is still standing.

 

On the way back from Bluff, Utah, I passed throught Mina, NV yesterday.  The freight depot was GONE.  A local resident told me the depot was torn down perhaps 10 years ago, so the above photo was taken shortly before that happened.  Long live memories of the Espee!

Mark

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Posted by markpierce on Saturday, January 16, 2010 6:13 AM

Sailormatlac

Anyway, I just wondered if there was particular kind of freight that was never carried with passengers... But in the other hand, mixed trains are rarely more than a very few cars long.

I don't have an authoritative or well-informed answer.  However, I would be surprised if the Mina Mixed ever carried box-car loads of artillery shells from the Hawthorne ammunition depot.

Mark

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Posted by Sailormatlac on Friday, January 15, 2010 7:13 PM

Mark, you got the eye of the tiger! The GESTAPO is after me I guess!!!

Anyway, I just wondered if there was particular kind of freight that was never carried with passengers... But in the other hand, mixed trains are rarely more than a very few cars long.

I think mixed trains are an excellent opportunity to run passenger service on a layout not designed for large passenger fleets.

Matt

Proudly modelling the Quebec Railway Light & Power Co since 1997.

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http://www.harlem-station.blogspot.com

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Posted by markpierce on Friday, January 15, 2010 12:28 PM

Sailormatlac

Funny thing, I thought I had edited my post and removed that sentence yesterday! I should have said stone instead of ore...

You had, Matt, but I couldn't pass up your slip up.

Mark

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Posted by Geared Steam on Friday, January 15, 2010 10:30 AM

TA462

Sometimes I'll run a Ontario Northland mixed train, they call it the Little Bear.  It hauls everything from people's cars and trucks to supplies for the tiny communities in Northern Ontario.  They even have a car built just for canoes. 

This reminded me of a picture I took last summer, Alaska Railroad does the same thing with rafts.

"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein

http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/

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Posted by Sailormatlac on Friday, January 15, 2010 7:20 AM

 Hi Mark,

Funny thing, I thought I had edited my post and removed that sentence yesterday! I should have said stone instead of ore... Nobody's gonna make a penny out of the load!!! When you're not writing in your native language, it's what happen.

The only ore they mined in my area at the time was a small mica deposit that didn't last long enough to be a profitable business at the end of WW2. As you said, they would ship it by box car anyway. You see, freelancing a line isn't easier than following a prototype. Sometimes, you think things make sense and they don't.

In fact, the line carry granite, gravel and stone blocks for building. Granite can be quite large when extracted from the quarry to be cut in a shop. In the 50's and still today, large stone veneers were extremely popular in modern buildings all over North America. A small operation like mine in Beauce, QC, exported a lot of these blocks back then to be cut for NYC skyscrappers.

This railway still use a lot of old wood frame cars for regular service, it's why I thought it wouldn't be wise to mix them with granite loads on a cheap mountainous line. But more seriously, the stone train isn't a regular, is quite heavy and very slow, so there's no reason to offer the passenger service on it. 

 Matt

Proudly modelling the Quebec Railway Light & Power Co since 1997.

http://www.hedley-junction.blogspot.com

http://www.harlem-station.blogspot.com

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Posted by markpierce on Thursday, January 14, 2010 11:35 PM

Matt said "However, it is strictly forbidden to use mixed train with ore cars for security reasons."

As if passengers wouldn't be caught carrying off a ton of ore containing a bit of gold.  If concentrated ore, it should be carried in box cars anyway.

Mark

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Posted by Sailormatlac on Thursday, January 14, 2010 9:55 PM

Inspiring pictures Bill!!!

I'm modelling a logging and mining branchline... the project is freelanced, but based on a real town and a real railway that served the area...

 The layout is in the early stages by now, but I had the occasion to run the consist a few times. The story is set in 1954, 2 years before the road was built with government subsides.

The mixed train run once a day, starting from the mainline station early in the morning (after the transfer with the  morning express interurban trolley) and leaving at 6:00 PM each night.

The consist is made of an 1889 old time combine for loggers, tourists and the mail, a caboose, a box cars for goods (and coming back with sawn lumbers), a flat cars for cars and trucks and one or two gravel hopper. Frequently, a tank car can be seen bringing fuel to the village. Weekly, an other mixed train reach the loggers camp and bring them home on saturday night and come back the sunday night. The old #21 4-6-0 is habitually pulling the mixed train, but since the main line is now run on diesel power, the #22 2-6-0 is frequently seen when the older engine fails. Rumors says the #21 will retire soon since the boiler is leaking.

 Here you can see old #21 building the mixed train at the interchange with Pit Asselin serving as ingeneer.

 

Matt

Proudly modelling the Quebec Railway Light & Power Co since 1997.

http://www.hedley-junction.blogspot.com

http://www.harlem-station.blogspot.com

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Posted by AztecEagle on Thursday, January 14, 2010 8:03 PM

I was looking through my latest Historic Rails Catalouge and a couple of items caught my eye for mixed train modeling:on Page 24,there's a selection of Old Time Wooden Cars from Model Power/Mantua.

There's a Side Door Caboose and a Clestory Roofed Combine.

The Combine Caboose looks like it'd be perfect for nearly any era from 1870-1970.

Seems like all you have to do to modernize it would be to snip off the truss rods and change the trucks.

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Posted by Packer on Tuesday, January 5, 2010 1:35 PM

BN had one between Wishram, Washington and Bend, Oregon. Daily excpet Sunday, and lasted until Amtrak. They had heavyweight combines, ex-SP&S 272 and 273. The combines were assigned BN numbers, but never actually recieved them.

Looks like it was used as a caboose, and had an all-weather window on rhe second window in the passenger compartment from the end.

Vincent

Wants: 1. high-quality, sound equipped, SD40-2s, C636s, C30-7s, and F-units in BN. As for ones that don't cost an arm and a leg, that's out of the question....

2. An end to the limited-production and other crap that makes models harder to get and more expensive.

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Posted by AztecEagle on Monday, January 4, 2010 9:18 PM

Okay.30 Years ago,Kachina Press published a book about Mixed Train Service on the Santa Fe titled"Coach Cabbage and Caboose".

The title refers to what a Secretary at the Wichita Offices called Coach/Combine/Caboose Mixed Trains:
"Coach Cabbage and Caboose"*(*Coach Baggage and Caboose).

Now Seagraves and Bledsoe,Texas are outside Lubbock,so theyr'e nowhere near Amarillo!!
However,in Steve Goen's Book"Santa Fe in The Lone Star State",there are photos of the Amarillo-Lubbock Connection Trains"Eastern Express/West Texas Express".

Although not really mixed trains,the three car locals could be honorary mixed trains.

They consisted of a Streamlined Baggage;Chair Car and Sleeper and they connected The California Special in Lubbock with the San Francisco Chief in Amarillo.

New Mexico's Santa Fe Southern has a daily mixed train from Santa Fe to Lamy.

Also Disney's"Beverly Hills Chihuahua"has some great scenes of a Ferromex Mixto.*
(*Mixed Train in Mexico).

Now with the exception of the Ferromex Mixto,the others can be modeled very easily.

Santa Fe Southern:A couple of Walthers Trainline Geeps,an Idler Flat Car with rails*(A Model Power Flatcar'll do in a pinch)for the tourists;some modern freight cars and a couple of IHM Heaveyweight Coaches.

ATSF Eastern Express/West Texas Express:Most Photos of it show it being pulled by an E8.

However,there's no reason a"Torpedo Boat"GP7 in Zebra Stripe;PA1 or F3/7 can't work!!

Then get a Walthers Streamlined Baggage Car;Chair Car and Sleeper in Santa Fe silver.

The IHC/Rivarossi Heavyweight Combine has a slight resemblance to a Santa Fe Combine,so a quick repaint into Santa Fe Oxide Red or Olvie Green and it'll do in a pinch.

The Ferromex Mixto:While it's no problem finding Ferromex GP60's and SD 40-2's from Athearn and the Box Cars and 60'Flat from either Athearn or Intermountain are no real problem,just a quick relettering job from NdeM to FXE.

The Caboose,a slight toughie,but Athearn makes the Wide Vision Caboose in NdeM Yellow so it's passable.

The Passenger Cars are the real thorn in the side as although they look slightly US or Canadian,they seem a little small,so that might be a problem!!

Anyway,I hope it helps. 

 

 

 

 

 

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Posted by Texas Zepher on Sunday, January 3, 2010 3:04 PM

 I was rummaging through some photos and I did find a picture of one of my mixed trains.  This one has a not-normal Pullman green combine.  This means that the car is borrowed from the mainline pool.  Normal cars used on Santa Fe branchline and mixed trains were red oxide.   Santa Fe #67/68 daily  Wichita to Pratt Kansas


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Posted by doctorwayne on Tuesday, December 1, 2009 3:49 PM

Thank you for the kind words, Ernie.

The river base is 3/8" plywood on a 1"x4" open grid frame.  I sprayed it with "wet" water (to prevent the wood from drawing too much moisture from the plaster), then applied a thin (1/8" or-so) layer of Durabond90, a patching plaster which sets in approximately 90 minutes, regardless of how thin or thick it's mixed.  I used an assortment of drywall knives to level it, more-or-less, then, as it began to set, used the knives to "tease" up the ripples around the bridge piers. 

While it sets in 90 minutes, I gave it an extra day or two to fully harden, then used a 2" brush to apply flat latex house paint to the riverbed - I used the same brown as my basic "dirt" colour, and the grey/green is from background tree construction.  Where the two colours met, the paints were applied "wet", allowing them to be blended together somewhat. 

A day or two later, I used a 1/2" brush and some PollyScale white to add the "whitewater" effects, then, the following day, brushed on three coats of high gloss water-based clear urethane, following the manufacturer's directions regarding time between coats.  This is especially important, as waiting too long between coats will require the previous coat to be sanded, not especially practical for this application.


The urethane stands up very well, and the hardness of the Durabond allows me to place my camera directly atop the water for photos, with no scratching of the surface and with none of the plaster breaking-off or crumbling.  It's been in place for several years, with no cracking or yellowing, and no shrinkage.  An occasional dusting keeps the "water" sparkling.

I also did this lake-side scene, with choppy water and breakers - a damp sponge lifted the chop, and careful manipulation of a drywall knife put some curl into the breakers:

Now, back to our regular programming Smile,Wink, & Grin

Wayne

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Posted by ErnieC on Tuesday, December 1, 2009 2:01 PM

Wayne, (off topic)

What great river modeling!  How did you do that?

Ernie C 

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Posted by dmitzel on Tuesday, December 1, 2009 12:45 PM

Sperandeo
If you want to run a mixed train in the 1970s or 80s, there are a couple of prototype examples. <snip> The Soo Line had a Wisconsin branchline local that was officially a mixed train until about 1980, although it carried no passenger equipment. Anyone who insisted on riding, and it took some determination, was carried in the caboose. Thanks to all those who found my column on mixed trains interesting or useful. Merry Christmas, Andy

I'm considering doing something similar to the SOO's N. Michigan and N. Wisconsin mixed operations on my proto-freelanced BN Dakota branch. My theory is that the company failed to properly submit abandonment papers to the state ICC years ago, which then denied the railroad's petition to annul passenger service on the line. This obscure operation continued on for many years, just like the SOO service.

The railroad removed the passenger coach from service,  instead carrying any remaining passengers in the caboose. I have three of the Walthers Platinum-line International bay window waycars in Cascade Green, figuring that the cupola is best eliminated for safety reasons on these particular trains. The daily BN mixed would connect with Amtrak's Chicago-Seattle/Portland service that stops at the mainline junction depot.

Not that there are all that many hearty souls making the trip nowadays, with paved 65 MPH highways all around. Still, there are those without a car - by choice or otherwise - that need the service. The crews are friendly in these parts and do their best to make the rare passenger comfortable for the several hour trip up the line.

D.M. Mitzel Div. 8-NCR-NMRA Oxford, Mich. USA
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Posted by West Coast S on Monday, November 30, 2009 11:32 AM

I've only got two active passenger cars, coach and baggage, converted from Amercian flyer hi-rail with new underframes, paint, end platforms, trucks and redetailed, both are of pre 1900 vintage which ties in well with my 1927 timeframe, hence the occasional mixed does occur. I have a turn called the vulture, this local handles pickup and setouts on a non priority basis, typically it runs every 2 or 3rd operation session gathering and forwarding shook cars other non perishible traffic, more times then not it will use either car or both in leiu of the traditional caboose. 

Dave

SP the way it was in S scale
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Posted by Bill H. on Sunday, November 29, 2009 8:37 PM

 As for actually modeling mixed consist, No. T/C does have a modified RDC that carries passengers and express freight, as needed.

A few neat old photos: (Smoky Mountain Railroad of Tennessee)

 

 

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Posted by twhite on Sunday, November 29, 2009 7:20 PM

markpierce

markpierce

Yeah, I drove along it some eight or ten years ago and the track (rail and ties) had been pulled.  The former Mina yard was a bare expanse.  The freight depot was still standing, barely.

Finally found my photo of the Mina freight house.  I'd be surprised if it is still standing.

 

Mark: 

Almost worth scheduling a trip over there to find out.  I remember when I used to drive through Mina, that there was always some activity there in the yard.   That was one FASCINATING SP branch line.

Tom

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Posted by markpierce on Sunday, November 29, 2009 6:58 PM

markpierce

Yeah, I drove along it some eight or ten years ago and the track (rail and ties) had been pulled.  The former Mina yard was a bare expanse.  The freight depot was still standing, barely.

Finally found my photo of the Mina freight house.  I'd be surprised if it is still standing.

 

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Posted by SSW9389 on Tuesday, November 17, 2009 6:41 AM

The last steam operated branch line on the Cotton Belt was the Sherman Branch or “S” Branch. This 52-mile line ran from Commerce, TEXAS to Sherman, TEXAS and was finally abandoned in 1953. The last run was on Saturday September 26, 1953. Part of the charm of this line were the last operational steam locomotives and the Cotton Belt long cabooses such as #2301 that was used to provide the accommodation. Very few passengers used this mixed train service. Cotton Belt ran a daily mixed train to and from Sherman. The #217 was the northbound schedule and the #218 was the southbound schedule.  Notable Cotton Belt steam locomotives on the Sherman run in the early 1950s were  F1 Ten Wheeler #254, the last Cotton Belt Ten Wheeler, G1 Consolidation #502 and G2 Consolidation #517. The two consolidations proved to be the very last active Cotton Belt steam. The consolidation’s longevity can be attributed to the light rail of the Sherman Branch.

 The Sherman mixed provided service to Commerce where it connected with the T&NO, Fairlie, Wolfe City where it crossed the Gulf Colorado and Santa Fe, Bailey, Brickyard.

Randolph , Whiteright where it crossed the MKT and Tower 101 was located, Kentuckytown, Tom Bean, Luella, Lynn Station, Culton, and Sherman where the line connected with the MKT, SLSF, and T&NO.

 

 

C. W. Standefer photo of SSW #517 taken on September 24, 1953. Standefer was engineer on the second to last #218 returning to Commerce on Friday September 25, 1953. This was Standefer’s very last steam run. Cotton Belt continued to serve Sherman over T&NO trackage rights starting on Monday September 28, 1953.  

 

COTTON BELT: Runs like a Blue Streak!
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Posted by markpierce on Tuesday, November 17, 2009 1:54 AM

Wondrous scenes, Bow

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Posted by doctorwayne on Tuesday, November 17, 2009 12:02 AM

Another free-lance layout here, with mixed trains running regularly.  The usual power is one of the line's Moguls:

with 4 or 5 freight cars, then a combine carrying the markers, either wood:

...or steel:

The train has operated, at times, with no freight and, on other occasions, doubleheaded, with almost a dozen cars trailing.

Also running occasional as a mixed is "The Bee", the line's doodlebug:

Capable of handling up to eight freight cars (probably more than most prototypes), one or two are more usual, or an additional coach or express car:

Wayne

 

 

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Posted by markpierce on Monday, November 16, 2009 10:41 PM

PaSmith, it is reassuring to see train order signals at the station.  Modelers of train-order-era railroads often overlook this detail.

 

Mark

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Posted by PASMITH on Monday, November 16, 2009 10:34 PM
The California & Northeastern ( An SP sub) ran a mixed train daily on their Klamath Falls branch between Weed and Grass Lake CA in 1906 shortly after they purchased the trackage and two locomotives from the Weed Lumber Company. ( "Southern Pacific's Shasta Division", John R. Signor, page 125) Later this trackage was extended on to Klamath Falls OR and so was the mixed train along with logging extras pulled by SP TW class 4-8-0's. Eventually, the tracks were extended on to Eugene and became the SP Cascade Line. ( The only line of 10 railroad lines in the area that Bruce Chubb did not incorporate in his latest layout) Attached is a photo of my C & NE bashed 4-4-0 No 1 ( Ex Weed No 1) pulling the only SP coach ever lettered C & NE by the SP just south of Grass Lake MP 371. It almost certainly was run on the daily mixed train from Weed to Grass Lake in 1906. Note: This is a fictitious flag stop at my freelanced timber company. Peter Smith, Memphis
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Posted by Texas Zepher on Monday, November 16, 2009 2:51 PM

BRAKIE
My favorite mix train was and remains N&W's Abingdon Mixed train..AKA  The Virginia Creeper..

I had a photograph (O.Winston Link) of that on a calendar a few years ago.  Photo was taken from a bridge as the train passed under.  It was foggy with the baggage and coach on the end directly under the camera.  A few box cars and a flat up toward the locmotive (steam of course) which was furtherst up the valley away from the camera.  I could look at that photo for hours wondering who was on the train going where and what the cargo in the box cars was.    Really tempted me to start modeling N&W.   I went to visit that part of the country a few years ago.   I was very bumed out to see the Abingdon branch converted to a bike path and Coalwood (from the book Coalwood way and movie October Sky) is now nothing.  Unfortunately the O.Winston Link museum was closed the day I happened through town.

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Posted by carknocker1 on Monday, November 16, 2009 2:00 PM

I don't currently model a mixed train , but on my past layout I modeled the LNAC in southern Indiana , back the early 1950's when there was 2 daily mixed train that met the Southern RWY east bound and West bound Louisville to St. Louis Trains mostly for the Mail , I had a wooden combine that brought the rear , which the real railroad did until it burned down , then passenger service was handled in a modified wood caboose which I also modeled .

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Posted by markpierce on Monday, November 16, 2009 1:48 PM

markpierce

Has everybody read Andy Sperandeo's article on page 144 of January's Model Railroader on running mixed trains?  It reminded me of my favorite mixed train, the Mina Mixed (or Local) on the Southern Pacific Railroad, train numbers 605 and 606. ...

The Mina Mixed:

 

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Posted by jecorbett on Monday, November 16, 2009 1:38 PM

Right now, it's only on the drawing board but I plan a branch line addition to my double track freelanced railroad and mixed trains will be featured on the branch. One mixed train will be a combination milk/commuter train which will connect with mainline trains at the junction. The other will be a peddler freight that will interchange with the mainline weigh freight at mid-day and will carry a combine to handle the few passengers that will be traveling at that time of day. My branch line is long by model railroad standards but will serve just two towns, each having several industries. I anticipate, it will be among the most interesting features on the layout when completed as the mainline will have a lot of trains which simply pass through the layout.

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Posted by Mill Bay on Monday, November 16, 2009 1:24 PM

Another oft forgotten railway notable for it's mixed trains was the Newfoundland Railway in Canada, which operated mixed trains on it's branchlines and even on the mainline up until the mid-1980s.

http://railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=219748&nseq=6 

http://railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=129076&nseq=19

http://railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=129075&nseq=20

http://railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=129074&nseq=21

There was also an article on the Newfoundland Railway in an issue of Classic Trains. I can't quite remember just which issue right now, though.

 

Sperandeo
If you want to run a mixed train in the 1970s or 80s, there are a couple of prototype examples. The Georgia RR operated one until 1983. It carried a lightweight Budd coach in addition to its caboose. The Soo Line had a Wisconsin branchline local that was officially a mixed train until about 1980, although it carried no passenger equipment. Anyone who insisted on riding, and it took some determination, was carried in the caboose. Thanks to all those who found my column on mixed trains interesting or useful. Merry Christmas, Andy

 

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