Does anyone own one? I have a few questions about it.
- Luke
Modeling the Southern Pacific in the 1960's-1980's
If I had money, this steamer I would probably have.
"Being misunderstood is the fate of all true geniuses"
EXPERIMENTATION TO BRING INNOVATION
http://community.webshots.com/album/288541251nntnEK?start=588
There has been a lot of discussion at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/up_modelers/ . Several of the members there have them and have reported on their performance, min radius, etc. It's a free group - so join!!
I've purchased three of these locomotives, but only have one up and running so far. This is a beautiful model, but watch out for the marker lights, when unbagging the first one, the marker was already broken off. I'll have to ACC that back on.
The locomotives runs wonderfully, but I had a bear of a time with the tender. The wheels on the tender trucks hit the center sill of the underframe. I had to shim them up. When I found that shimming didn't eliminate the derailing problems I was having (I run 36" minimum radius), I took out the tender truck springs. They are too firm, and cause the trucks to bind.
Since that minor bit of surgery, the first one is running around like a champ. Very happy with my purchase.
I'll be spray painting out the Union Pacific on my three, and adding my home road herald to the tender.
Regards,
Jerry Zeman
Hi!
I've got the BLI Paragon ATSF 2-10-2 (and 2-10-4) and I "assume" it shares the same mechanism with the UP. In any case, I love the sounds - 4 chuffs to a revolution - and it runs really well. It can be difficult (like most big steamers) to get on the track and plug in the tender, but it sure is pretty. I do agree that the typical 2-10-2, being a workhorse, was generally very dirty unless just out of the shop.
Oh, one more thing.... I really enjoy the sound, but sure wish the BLI sound locos didn't take so much voltage before they moved. I suspect that will get better with time.......
ENJOY,
Mobilman44
ENJOY !
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
The two are not even close. The TTT model is a Hybrid with the running gear built along with the brass model TTT in the same production run.
The Hybrid is as close to brass as you can get for much less money and in the case of the TTT, the shell and tender shell are brass also. The concept of the BLI hybrid was to use a plastic shell on the same chassis as the brass built to save money overall and BLI thought they would save money on the project since many more chassis would be produced to cover both projects. The NH Hudson hybrid is the same deal. I purchased one of those just to have a brass model at a much reduced price. It has some of the detail missing, but not much less than the expensive version.
BLI discovered the reserved number of hybrids did not justify tooling up more shells out of plastic when the brass was already tooled and being built. The New York Central Mohawks will probably be their last hybrid since no more are scheduled at this time and the amount of orders did not justify more products.
They are the best models for the money, at least for me.
CZ.
Just curious--since the TTT is a brass 'hybrid', I'm wondering about the tolerances of the drive mechanism. With that, I'm assuming that the TTT will require a much wider radius than the 24" that BLI advertises for its plastic ATSF 2-10-2? I have 5 brass 2-10-2's (PSC, Tenshodo, Westside and Sunset), and their MINIMUM comfortable radius is at least 30".
Is this the case with the BLI brass hybrid TTT? As I said, just curious.
Tom
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
I'd be interested in the "actual" radius needed for these as well.... I so need one. Maybe I can sell the cat and dog???
I don't have access to a layout at this time to check out my model, but all of most of my PFM united brass could run on much tighter curves than my KTM built models. Later run United models tend to allow more side play in the drivers and I would guess that is what they have done with the brass and hybrid drive. I had to work on many of the Westside KTM models just to run on 28" to 30", but my later PFM United built models would go down much lower without modifications. I know some of the PFM models would indeed need larger radius since they used several builders from Japan. If I remember correctly, my Fuji built models do not have much side play and needed large radius curves. .
The information below is from the BLI page and both the brass and hybrid have the same 22" radius. I would guess that is absolutely the least, but you never know. They have flagged it TBD, but their specifications called for 22". Maybe someone can tell us what the real minimum is for this locomotive. I would think it is more like 24 to 26" at the very least. As you know, the older brass models are all different and each individual model can have issues. I have duplicate copes of certain models and those are not always exactly the same when it come to operation. One will operate fine and the other one will be a problem.
Anyway, for the money, the hybrid TTT is just great! I have the last run Key 4-12-2 built by Samtech for Key that requires at least a 40" radius, but I never expected it to turn corners.
CZ
BLI TTT Specifications below
Cazephyr--
Thanks for the specs on the TTT. I'll certainly agree with you on differences in brass manufacturers. And frankly, identical locos from those mfgrs. I've got two Custom Brass M-75 Rio Grande 4-8-2's, and they couldn't be more different if they tried. One of them will float aorund a 24" radius with no problem, the other needs almost a 30" minimum to keep the front truck from shorting out against the cylinders. And both are 'as is' with no tinkering from me (which is unusual for me, LOL!).
I will say that of my brass 2-10-2's, the United ATSF is the one that is able to take the tightest radius--when I bought it way back when as a 'junker' , it could take a 26". I used it as a basis for a 'kit-bash', and after I finished, I found out it needed a 28" minimum. But that was my fiddling with it, not the basic loco itself. My newer 2-10-2's from Sunset (USRA Heavy) and PSC (Rio Grande F-81) all squeal on anything less than a 30". Luckily, I have a 34" minimum radius, so they float around curves just fine.
But I have to admit that I'm surprised that BLI 'tweaked' the hybrid TTT to go around an advertised 22" radius. The overhang on that baby must be something ELSE, LOL!
I have noticed the side play for the drivers can be hindered by the journal bearings in the frame if they are out of place towards the outside. They should be pressed inwards to their maximum position allowed by the spring in place above the journal to allow the drivers play side to side. I believe this can be the reason one model will run around a tight curve and a same production model will fail to make the sharp radius. The front trucks and rear trailing trucks can be a problem also and as you have said, after you worked on one of yours, it actually needed more radius. I have experienced that also as I have painted many models over the years and each one required some special attention.
I have noticed the later Sunset large steam models do not do well on tight radius curves. All of the KTM models I have needed at least 30" and some even more. I prefer the older KTM built models for Max Gray, Balboa and Westside, since they are heavy duty type brass and the prices now are really low overall.
I picked up a Westside D&RGW L105 4-6-6-4 recently for $425 unpainted. That was a deal at least for my money and they are very nice overall, but not detailed like the latest models from PSC or Division Point.
I noticed the DP Z7 and Z8's are in stock at several dealers, but the lowest price I found is about $2495. I don't think there is a mad rush and they probably will be around for some time.
Cazepher
Amen to those Westside L-105's--I've got two of them and even though they do not have the detail of today's brass models, they are built like tanks and can haul anything you want to put behind them. I can overlook the lack of fine details with no problem because they are such smooth powerhouses.
As to the Division Point Z's--I have a feeling that they're worth every penny, most Division Point locos I've seen are incredibly detailed, beautifully balanced and evidently have Maxxon motors, which I understand are are extremely smooth and powerful. The Sunset Z-6 i've got on order is considerably less than $2400 by over a thousand, but the photos I've seen of it are really drool-inducing. I'm assuming, that like my other Sunset models, it will be a very smooth runner. It's designed for a 30" minimum radius, so I'm very safe there. Of course, if you don't mind the overhang, a lot of articulateds will squeeze around smaller radii than some long-wheel based non-articulateds. My Yellowstones were able to track a 24" radius with no problem on one of my earlier layouts, but of course the overhang was ridiculous, LOL.
And I'll certainly agree with you about the KTM's--I've got one Max Gray MT-4-8-2 that needs a 30" minimum, but the loco alone must weigh 5 pounds, and it's just a brute. Nice runner, too. And beautifully detailed for its age.
Even though I'm an SP modeler, I've ordered one of thos TTT hybrids with oil tender. That's fine because the SP leased some of those UP 2-10-2s during the post-WWII power shortage. I've already got a UP Bull Moose for the same reason -- the locomotives are too handsome to resist and they ran on the SP. I'll be in the market for suitable UP Mikados for all the same reasons.
Mark
To the Original Poster - what are your questions about these models from BLI? You never asked them?!
I have 2 of them (both Coal Tender) and I'm very, very pleased and they arrived without anything broken off or any other problems.
Well, okay, they both had the reset switch in the wrong position so it did constantly reset the loco; but that was an easy fix.
I'm now looking forward to the NYC Mohawk Brass-Hybrid and I will get all 4 of those - these are by far the best Steam locos you can get for that amount of money.
I also hope that BLI will someday continue with the Brass / Brass-Hybrid as I think this is a wonderful idea.