Changing decoder address help needed

[fsm1000]

 

I finally figured out how to instal the decoder on my own BUT now I can not change the address from the default 03. I emailed digitrax and they said [and I quote]: "You cannot change the address of a Tsunami with the DCS100/200 without Soundtraxx's Program booster".
So I am screwed here. And soundtrax says NOTHING about needing extra anything on their website in order to change the addresses on thier decoders.

Unless someone knows what buttons to press on the superchief to change the address I will have a 600 dollar dud on my hands. If I had known it was gonna be this difficult to get answers and help from soundtraxx and digitrax and bachmann I never would have gone into DCC. This so annoying I don't know what to say.
So  any help would be appreciated thanks.

[jeffrey-wimberly]

 I assume you were trying to set the address in Page mode. Have you tried programming on the main in Ops mode?

[fsm1000]

 Actually I tried both.

[fsm1000]

 Apparently I need to buy a booster.

http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=23513

Ok so I need yet ANOTHER freaking product to use this stuff?
I quit

[jeffrey-wimberly]

 Well, it looks like you have a choice. You can find someone who has the part you need or you run the loco without sound.

[fsm1000]

 

jeffrey-wimberly

 Well, it looks like you have a choice. You can find someone who has the part you need or you run the loco without sound.

 

No sound? LOL obviously you have no idea what I am asking ut that is ok. :)

I have sound etc I just can't change the address. Apparently I need a power booster from soundtraxx. ANyhow I might just say 'forget it" it all cause since I started DCC I been screwed around so much it is sick. And Bachmann, Digitrax and soundtrax either don't answer emails or they pass the buck or tell you to buy something else. I have spent almost a thousand dollars basically for nothing.

Edited for content by selector.

[jeffrey-wimberly]

 So you're saying you can't change any codes. Ah, I get you now. Too bad they have to make sure you buy their program booster by making a proprietary product but I guess that's their choice. It's kind of the same thing I have to do with some decoders I have. They don't have much resistance and the Zephyr can't see them and therefore can't program them until I connect a small 12 volt light bulb to the track. That provides enough resistance for the Zephyr to see the decoder and program it.

[locoi1sa]

 If all else fails do the math and figure CV17 and 18 and set CV29 = 34 first. CV 17 and 18 calculator was on tonys web site awhile ago may still be there.

     Pete

[jrbernier]

Steve,

  Here is the web link to the CV calculator:

http://ruppweb.dyndns.org/xray/comp/decoder.htm 

 

1. Use the above calculator to get the CV17/18 values.  Then just program the engine 'on the main'
2. Set CV29 to 38(128 speed step/4 digit/DC mode enabled) <== Do this first
3. Set CV17 & CV18
4. Use your engine!

  If you are using a 2 digit address, do not mess with CV29. 

Jim Bernier

 

[MRRSparky]

I recently bought a Digitrax Zephyr.  It puts out 11-13 volts at around 2.5 Volts.  I use it to program Tsunami, Soundtraxx LC and LokSound decoders, using a DT-400 throttle.  I have no difficulty programming these decoders, using DecoderPro.  I cannot read-back CVs in the first two decoders but have no problem with LokSound decoders, and any other non-sound decoder, in Service Mode on a programming track.

Any one know why the low-end Zephyr should have no difficulty, while the Super Chief is unable to do these things?

[MRRSparky]

I forgot to add that the Zephyr is a replacement for a DB150 that I finally got fed up with; its not being able to read-back any decoder annoyed me.  Although the Zephyr offers less total Voltage and Amperage, it comes with a large plug in transformer.  I was able to replace the hard-wired transformer (Loy's Toys Fuel Tank) whose buzzing was a constant annoyance.  

I would like to have been able to read-back Soundtraxx decoders and had bought a DCC Specialties Power Pack ,but it would not read-back those decoders. 

I've had three Power Packs, trying to solve the problem:  the first was defective and was replaced; the replacement was sent back to the manufacturer - it would program but stopped reading back any decoder after two days; it was replaced with a new one, and out of the box it would not read-back any decoder.  So I returned that one for a refund.  It appears it is not compatible to my Zephyr.  Litchfield Station uses exactly the same set up with no problems.

Does anyone have any experience with another power booster?  Soundtraxx makes one but it is a naked circuit board and has to be wired to track voltage.  It seemed like a kluge to me.  Is there anything else out there that works?

[selector]

Scott, if you have the DB150, as I have, and if there isn't a difference between the one I have for the SEB vs. your variant, the DB150 has no programming output other than "all she's got".   The Zephyr has a separate programming circuit, with its reduced output for decoder safety.  So is my understanding.  For our DB150's, the entire rail gets the full programming output, and there are no separate outputs for a programming track.  In other words, the DB150 spanks all decoders within reach and forces them to behave.

[jrbernier]

Scott,

  I have a 'Chief' DCS100(one of the originals).  I have no problems programming engines other than those MRC wonders.  I just programmed a pair of Soundtraxx B280LC steam decoders for my Spectrum 2-8-0 engines on the program track.  I used Decoder Pro and other than a lot of the CV's could not be read back, they came out fine.  Normally I only use the program track to set the engine address.  I then place the engine on the 'main' and set the other CV's(like 'speed matching').  I have resorted to 'hand bombing' the address on the main via the individual CV's for MRC decoders.  The reason this works is due to the higher voltage/power available on the main.

Jim Bernier

[fsm1000]

 What I found out from digitrax is that NO tsunami decoder will work with the super chief without the super booster from soundtraxx.

That is what the people at digitrax told me.

It just ticks me off that there is no warning or anything on the label etc. The hobby shop I frequent was told about this by me and it is the first they heard of it and they are totally ticked off now too. One more dang expense sheesh.

Thanks guys for all your help.

It has nothing to do with what CV I am changing. The 2 digit address can't be changed [neither the 4 digit one either] with out the super booster.

Oh well.

[selector]

fsm1000

 What I found out from digitrax is that NO tsunami decoder will work with the super chief without the super booster from soundtraxx...

...The 2 digit address can't be changed [neither the 4 digit one either] with out the super booster...

 

I beg to differ.

[rrinker]

 Guys - you have this backwards. Calculate the values and program CV17 and CV18 FIRST! If you change CV29 to 4-digit addressing you'll lose the loco since you'll be ops mode programming to address 03 and the decoder is now looking for a 4 digit address. This is precisely the order it is done by the automated address programming in most systems as well - CV17 and 18 set first, THEN 29 altered.

 I'm sure you can change it if you use Ops Mode. There's no issue with excessive load when programming on the main. In fact, according to Bruce at Litchfield, you can even use the automatic address setting - where the system sets CV29 for you - with the Tsunami in Ops Mode. I do strongly disagree with Bruce's inference that the reason it fails is because the Tsunami conforms to NMRA standards adn the DCS100 does not. Really? Then why does every other decoder program without problems?

                                   --Randy

[CSX Robert]

One important note about programming a Tsunami using ops mode programming - if the primary (or short or 2 digit) address is enabled, you can only change the extended(or long or 4 digit) address. If the extended address is enabled, you can only change the primary address. As an example, if it is currently responding to the default 2 digit address '3' and you want to change it to another 2 digit address, you first have to program a 4 digit address and enable 4 digit addressing, then(making sure you are programming to the new 4 digit address) change the 2 digit address and then re-enable 2 digit addressing.

[fsm1000]

 Selector ok but take it up with digitrax cause they said it. :)

[fsm1000]

 Randy, again I refer you to digitrax who when asked why the problem said what they said to me. :) So ask them i suppose.

[wickman]

I have several steam engines with tsunamis installed , I have the booster now but I didn't have it the first time I ran the tsunami , I also have the super chief 200 , I'm positive I programmed without the booster . the only reason I picked up the booster was I had been putting an order in from litchfield station at the time and it had been mentioned that the booster helps.

[selector]

Stephen, can you do a reset of this decoder using Ops Mode on the main track?  If so, then you can also change the address using Ops Mode on the main.  If you can't do a reset, then you have a problem either with the decoder or your DCC system.

[jbinkley60]

selector

Stephen, can you do a reset of this decoder using Ops Mode on the main track?  If so, then you can also change the address using Ops Mode on the main.  If you can't do a reset, then you have a problem either with the decoder or your DCC system.

Agreed.  The "Super Booster" would only be used on the programming track and have nothing to do with Ops mode programming on the main. 

 

[rrinker]

 Have you tried it in ops mode, or not bothered because someone said it won't work? The Tsunami supports ops mode programming and since the full power of the command station is available to power the sound circuits, the booster would not be needed. If you can't set CV17 and 18 and 29 in the manner described, test it with another decoder, because there's probably somethign wrong with your system.

 The automatic address setting might not work - it doesn't work with QSI decoders on Digitrax because the QSI decoder has a delay after you program CV 17 and 18 for it to 'speak' the setting. This delay is there even if you have verbal responses turned off - and the delay Digitrax has between sending CV 17 and 18 and then sending CV29 is too short. End result is that 17 and 8 get programmed but 29 never gets updated to set the 4-digit address as the active one. However, if you use the calculator to get the values for CV 17 and 18, and you enter them oen at a time rather than using the automatic address setting, and then enter CV29, it will work fine. Using the autoamtic feature works fine on the various brands of non-sound decoders I've tried. Also, you can use the automatic even with the QSI - just follow it up with a manual setting of CV29

                                 --Randy

 

[fsm1000]

 Randy yes I have. I mentioned as such in my second reply. ANyhow I have tried a few things and on some of the other forums they are saying the same thing that for the tsunami decoders you need the power booster. Not others, just that one. Which to my mind makes soundtraxx scum for not warning people. If I can get my money back I will and then simply use someone elses decoders instead from now on..

Thanks for your help guys :D

[Anonymous]

 Uh, if the address is between 1 and 127, you could just change CV1... That sets the primary address on all decoders (as far as I know) to whatever number you input. Shouldn't have anything to do with the sound system.

[fsm1000]

 Tyler um ok. Not sure what that has to do with ANYTHING I have asked but ok sure whatever you say.

[Don Z]

Pardon me for interrupting your "It's not my fault" rant....

When I am about to purchase an item that I'm unfamiliar with, I'll take the time to research the item on the internet to see what I can learn. I just downloaded the Tsunami User's Guide and on Page #9 I found:

If your DSD is otherwise working properly (i.e., responds properly on the mainline to speed and direction commands) but your command station is having troubles reading CV data from the DSD, it may be due to incompatibilities between the electrical requirements of the DSD (which are different from conventional decoders due to the added audio circuitry) and the electrical characteristics of your programming track. In such an event, we suggest you simply go ahead and program the data into the CVs anyway.

Usually the DSD will accept the data and function properly when placed back on the main track. Another option is to use a Programming Track Booster, such as SoundTraxx PTB-100 (P.N. 829002). The PTB-100 amplifies the programming track signals to levels that work best with Tsunami. It is easy to install (see below) and inexpensive. An advantage to using the PTB-100 is that it also provides short circuit detection and some helpful diagnostics. It works well with all other SoundTraxx decoders, too.

Finally, if you continue to experience difficulties, try a different programming mode. If your system supports it, the best way to program the CVs is Operations Mode, as it allows you to immediately see or hear the results of your changes. It is important, however, to realize that not all programming modes will program all CVs. Additionally, the specific programming mode you use will depend upon the type of DCC system you are using. Some of the newer DCC systems can automatically select the proper programming mode so all you need to do is specify the CV number and its new value. On the other hand, some systems support only a few of the programming modes and may restrict which CVs you can program. If in doubt, refer to your DCC system’s manual or contact the manufacturer to determine which methods they support.

I would suggest doing a reset on the decoder, then take the time to read and understand the instructions for programming the decoder and then trying again. Many people here have been trying to help you solve the problem, but for some reason you want to answer with snide remarks and comments. I wish you success in programming the decoder....

Don Z.

 

[locoi1sa]

 I saw your post on tonys forum and just have to respond to what I have read on both forums. It seems to me that you are just trying to bash Soundtraxx and whine about not being able to change a 2 digit address. I say read the Digitrax book on programing on the main. Others have said it works. My cheap little NCE Power cab has programed every decoder I have thrown at it even the problematic Bluelines. Either you have a problem with the decoder or you don't know how to operate your system. The program booster is for reading CVs in program track mode. You don't need to read a CV to change it. Ops mode / program on the main works for every decoder with the NMRA stamp of approval. It forces the decoder to accept the CV you program into it. Sound decoders on the program track can be a problem due to the limited current and voltage trying to get past the sound system and capaciters that need to be charged. Thats one of the reasons why we have programing on the main.

      Pete

[BRVRR]

Sparky,

Have you tried letting Decoder Pro cycle through the CVs again when you fail to get a read back? I have a Zephyr and several Soundtraxx LC decoders. The Zephyr has never had a problem programming the LC decoders on the programming track or on the main so far as I know.

I have noticed though, that when using Decoder Pro and the programming track, the DP program has to cycle a couple of times to eliminate the 'skipped' CVs. It takes some time, but it always gets done.

I haven't noticed any problems with other decoders except for the resistor trick on Lenz/Atlas/Bachmann decoders. I usually set everything but the address on the main with QSI/Broadway decoders, but I have never had a problem on the programming track either.

[CSX Robert]

fsm1000,

After seeing that you posted on Tony's forum, I checked out your posts there.  On there you say you want to change the address to 01.  Did you read my post here about not being able to change the 2-digit address if the 2-digit address is enabled?  If the decoder is responding to the 2 digit address '03' you cannot directly change the address to the 2 digit address '01' with ops mode programming.  you have to program a 4 digit address and enable the 4 digit address.  Then you can program a different 2 digit address and switch back to 2 digit addressing.

 From theTsunami Steam Users Guide:

If the decoder’s primary address is enabled (i.e., CV 29, bit 5 is 0),

only the extended address may be changed using operations mode

programming.

If the decoder’s extended address is enabled (i.e., CV 29, bit 5 is 1),

only the primary address may be changed using operations mode

programming.