I was looking through the latest Walthers catalog, and I came across this remotoring kit:
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/116-70321
It says it's for Athearn 4 and 6-axle diesels. I've got a couple of very old Blue-Box F7's. One is probably 15-20 years old, and the other is around 50. (Yes, fifty.) These are up and running with decoders, but they are both very noisy engines.
So, for those of you with experience in this stuff, I've got a couple of questions:
Will this re-motor kit work, or is it designed for newer "old" engines than the relics I've got.
Will motor replacement significantly quiet these engines? Or, is most of the noise from the gears anyway, so that the motor noise is only a small component?
Thanks. I was thinking of putting sound into these, or perhaps into the dummy B unit, but that's not going to be as effective if the mechanical noise is enough to drown it out.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
That type of remotor kit worked well in some old BB (post 1970) Athearn locos I rebuilt for a friend some time back. I don't know how much different the really old BB's like yours are though. I've found that on my old Athearn's most of the noise comes from gears and the clunky drive shafts that were used. On models that I converted to the new hex drive the noise went down dramatically.
Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running BearSpace Mouse for president!15 year veteran fire fighterCollector of Apple //e'sRunning Bear EnterprisesHistory Channel Club life member.beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam
Does someone make a kit for the Hex drive replacement?
That I don't know. I ordered mine straight from Athearn's parts department.
The motor is usually very quiet. The gears make the noise. On my Athearn F units I took the drive all apart, removed any flash, and wiped each tooth of each gear with a pipe cleaner. The pipe cleaner picked up tiny bits of black plastic off the gears. When reassembled the locomotives were much quieter.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
As you know those old F7s uses the same frames as todays so here is my thoughts.
A motor that dates back to the 60s I would replace with either a newer Athearn or Genesis motor and I would upgrade to the hex drive line as well.Then in order to cut down on the shell chatter I would add stick on weights to the inside top of the shell.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Why not just replace the whole F unit mechanism? For roughly the price of that A-Line motor, which is a good motor all in itself, you can buy an Athearn Genesis F unit power mechanism.
TONY
"If we never take the time, how can we ever have the time." - Merovingian (Matrix Reloaded)
Gotta agree with Jasperofzeal on this one. You can't beat a whole new chassis for $40! It's probably your gears making most of the noise.
MisterBeasley Does someone make a kit for the Hex drive replacement?
Micro-Mark sells a universal coupling set that might work. http://www.ares-server.com/Ares/Ares.asp?MerchantID=RET01229&Action=Catalog&Type=Product&ID=83290
It is not a hex drive, but is a square drive. I believe that it uses the same principal as the old Hobbytown drives with a sliding ball.
Regards
That looks very similar to what's in my old Atlas GP40's. A ball and socket universal joint.
jeffrey-wimberlyThat looks very similar to what's in my old Atlas GP40's. A ball and socket universal joint.
If your GP40 looks like this, http://www.hoseeker.org/assemblyexplosionAtlas/Assembly%20Explosions%20Atlas%20EMD%20GP-38%2040%20pg1.jpg , then it is similar. I think that the difference is that the Atlas universal has a fixed length universal joint, where the Micro-Mark offering has a ball which locks into a socket on the loose end that is allowed to slide on the square shaft. I have a couple of the old Hobbytown drive shaft kits that are similar to the MicroMark item.
Whether it is an improvement over the Athearn original drive (not the new hex drive) I can't say right now, since I haven't installed the MM universal kits I purchased, but my initial impression is that anything that will replace all the sliding shafts and flopping universals of the older Athearn drives can't be all bad.
Time will tell.
I have repowered at least 20 Athearn 4 & 6 axle diesels with the A-Line kit. They definitely improve the performance of the engine and will operate together well. I also add nickel-silver wheels in place of the stock iron wheels for more reliable power pickup. The wheels also stay cleaner. Also make sure that you wire the trucks directly to the new motor,(the parts should be included in the repowering kit). A-Line has 3 different Athearn repowering kits; switchers, small or 4-axles, & large or 6-axles. I have used only the large version in all of my 4 or 6-axles without any unusual problems. I believe A-Line also makes driveshaft kits that use the Athearn sockets, you just trim the spline shaft to length. I have never found the geartrain noise to be objectionable, just make sure that the motor or flywheels aren't touching the shell. And after running an engine for awhile, they will quiet down.Also go to A-Line's web site for all of their repowering options. I have found even if my first,(or 2nd or 3rd),attempt isn't successful, eventually something will work. Good luck and good modeling.
Mr. B:
I'd look at the one for short-wheelbase locomotives instead if you're going to drop a newer motor into those F's without replacing the whole chassis. http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/116-90321
The one you listed will work, but there's not much clearance past the ends of the flywheels, so it makes the universal joints a bit on the tight side...bad juju. (Personal Experience)
Personally, I wouldn't bother with putting a Genesis mechanism under a Blue Box shell unless you REALLY want to...it's kinda like putting a 645 diesel prime mover into a Plymouth critter.
Just my , take it for what it's worth.
Robert Beaty
The Laughing Hippie
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The CF-7...a waste of a perfectly good F-unit!
Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the
end of your tunnel, Was just a freight train coming
your way. -Metallica, No Leaf Clover
Arjay1969 Personally, I wouldn't bother with putting a Genesis mechanism under a Blue Box shell unless you REALLY want to...it's kinda like putting a 645 diesel prime mover into a Plymouth critter. Just my , take it for what it's worth.
And what's wrong with a Plymouth critter? My AHM still does a scale 250mph
lvanhenAnd what's wrong with a Plymouth critter? My AHM still does a scale 250mph
Not a thing! And for the record, so does my old Lionel Husky...0 to 250 in .0005 seconds!
If your going to spend $40 replacing all the guts, then you might as well get a brand new Athearn RTR F7 ? I'm slowly replacing mine with Genesis units,but I still have some and I like them.
Santa Fe all the way!f your going to spend $40 replacing all the guts, then you might as well get a brand new Athearn RTR F7 ?
just curious, what kind of loco's where they,F7's, Geeps,etc? I've had two sets of F7AB's and they have run fine.However, I am replacing them with Genesis units for obvious reasons.
Santa Fe all the way!just curious, what kind of loco's where they,F7's, Geeps,etc?
2 F7's, 1 AC4400, 1 SD40. AC4400 and SD40 had truck problems, bad light board (AC4400) bad motors and bad soldering. On the F7's one had a bad motor. The other had a good motor but had bad soldering and a bad light board. The only loco that didn't have any problems was a GP35.
Dang, sounds like alot of troube to go thru. I can see why you posted. I guess I've been lucky.......so far anyway.
For the newer of your F7s, the motor kit should help significantly. The Athearn F7 drives are actually fairly quiet when properly tuned and oiled, and I've found that most of the noise in the four I've worked on (old and new) comes from the motor, and sometimes the flywheels. An A Line/PPW motor should help a lot to quiet them down. I don't really trust A Line's flywheels, but maybe I just got the bad ones from the bunch. There's nothing noisier than an off-balance flywheel, which is often a source of noise in Athearns more than anything else.
If your other F7 is as old as you say it is, then I'm guessing it has the old "tower" gear drive, which looks something like this: http://www.hoseeker.org/assemblyexplosionAthearn/Assembly%20Explosion%20Athearn%20F7A%20Geared.jpg. If this is what you've got, I don't think there's anything that can be done to make those trucks run quieter.
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jeffrey-wimberly Santa Fe all the way!f your going to spend $40 replacing all the guts, then you might as well get a brand new Athearn RTR F7 ? You mean Ready To Rebuild? I have 5 of the Athearn RTR locos and I've had to rebuild 4 of them just to get them to run properly. 2 had truck problems, 3 had motor problems, 2 bad light boards, poor solder joints all around. Be ready to do some work on them.
Jeffery,I have 24 and never had a problem..That either makes you unlucky or me the luckiest guy .
BRAKIE jeffrey-wimberly Santa Fe all the way!f your going to spend $40 replacing all the guts, then you might as well get a brand new Athearn RTR F7 ? You mean Ready To Rebuild? I have 5 of the Athearn RTR locos and I've had to rebuild 4 of them just to get them to run properly. 2 had truck problems, 3 had motor problems, 2 bad light boards, poor solder joints all around. Be ready to do some work on them. Jeffery,I have 24 and never had a problem..That either makes you unlucky or me the luckiest guy .
Brakie - Jeffery just likes to cry and Athearn bash!! As I posted earlier, I have around 40 and no problems - we must be doing something right!!
Thanks to everyone for the suggestions. I think I'll try the complete chassis replacement. I took the noisier of the two engines apart last night and lubricated it thoroughly. It helped a bit, but this engine is so old that the gearboxes and trucks are all metal. No wonder it sounds like some kind of grinding machinery when it runs.
I thought I was going to feel guilty, ordering this thing on-line rather than through my LHS. The savings were substantial, but then I looked at the shipping and that would add another $9. With the discount I get at the LHS, it will come out the same price, or maybe a bit cheaper, to go that way.
lvanhenBrakie - Jeffery just likes to cry and Athearn bash!! As I posted earlier, I have around 40 and no problems - we must be doing something right!!
jeffrey-wimberly lvanhenBrakie - Jeffery just likes to cry and Athearn bash!! As I posted earlier, I have around 40 and no problems - we must be doing something right!! I resent that! I have 27 Athearn's, 22 of which are Blue Box locos. I have no problem with them. Athearn's are what I use most on my layout. The only ones I have problems with are the newer more expensive 'RTR' models. If I'm going to pay that much for one loco I expect it to be right out of the box, instead I end up having to rebuild them. Enjoy the RTR locos for I'll be buying no more of them, I'll stick with my BB's.
Jeffrey, please don't take this so personal. The "newer more expensive" RTR Athearns are actually CHEAPER than the old BB ones, when you take time, inflation, and added features into account!! I used to buy BB freight car kits for $1 each, but I also bought gasoline for about $.29 at the same time!! 10 x $1 = $10, 10 x $.29 - $2.90!! You also get more detail as well as mostly assembled on the RTR. If everyone stopped buying new cars because brand X was ca-ca, no new cars would be sold!! Look at the people who have bought much more expensive locos and ask on the forum how to fix this & that on $250+ locos. My
More details? I have a RTR Athearn F7 sitting right in front of me and outwardly there's absolutely no difference in detail (except for window glass) than there is on an old BB F7 about 2 feet away from it. The only place there's any difference is inside what with the new motor, drive shafts and lightboard with wires to the trucks. Honestly I don't see what makes this one with it cheesy CSX paint job worth $70 when I got the BB F7 new in the box for $10 about a year ago. I bought 4 of them for $45 and they all run quiet and smooth.
A friend of mine buys older P2K geeps and puts the guts from them into his athearn F-units.
I only have 1 real athearn. An SW1500. For some reason it ran really well on DC, but on DCC it's kind of noisy. However it might just be my test track, because when I put a P2K SD9 on it, it was loud; took it to the club and it was nice and quiet. But if worse come to worse, I'm taking it apart and possibly re-motoring it.
I have one of the RTR GP35s, but it had NO motor (*** ebay). I managed to get a Buehler motor (what Stewart uses [guy said it was for a P2K loco, so I though it would fit, *** ebay again]) for it and my next order from walthers will complete the unit.
Vincent
Wants: 1. high-quality, sound equipped, SD40-2s, C636s, C30-7s, and F-units in BN. As for ones that don't cost an arm and a leg, that's out of the question....
2. An end to the limited-production and other crap that makes models harder to get and more expensive.
Update - I got the complete mechanism from my LHS. He had one that he'd swapped out for a sound one, or that didn't fit in a B-unit, or whatever. Anyway, it had no box, but we tested it and it ran fine. I walked out of the store with it for $40. So, as soon as the wimmen give me a free hour, I'll be swapping the shell, LED, couplers and decoder over and then I can rig for silent running.
In the shop, this thing was dead quiet. Like electric-car-running-down-pedestrians quiet. Yeah, I'm afraid I'll be in the market for sound pretty quick.
Lou,This GP38-2 was smooth and very quiet from the box..Its as quiet as my Atlas GP38s
Jeffery,If you are judging the added details by the F7 you you are backing up..Look at the newer offerings such as the former BB SW1000 and the SW1500.It's light years above my BB SW1500s in details.Even the BB RTR is superior to the BB locomotives such as scale size handrails,wire grabs,a superior drive system-when compared to the old BB drive shafts.We haven't even started on the newer RTR or the much upgraded SD40-2.