Discuss: Things every layout should have.

[Geared Steam]

"A tunnel."  Again, are we talking Moffatt, Cascade, or the oversize rain culvert that carried the MILW under I-10 at Tucumcari, NM?

What branch of the Milwaukee Road was that one?  There must have been a secret turnout inside St.Paul pass tunnel that went south for a looooong way.

GS

[steemtrayn]

 

1. Named places.  Names establish the character of a place.  The intersection of [Vaclav] Havel St. and [Eamon] DeValera Rd. is in a very different community than the intersection of [Richard] Nixon St. and [John] Birch Ave.

 

Here's an intersection for ya:

http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&FORM=LMLTCC&cp=40.673767~-74.002302&style=r&lvl=19&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=18442246&phx=0&phy=0&phscl=1&encType=1

 

[BlueHillsCPR]

If I ever model Japan I'll be sure to stick in some timber cribbing just to rock the boat! 

Kevin, there's only two people on the forum who'd know you were rocking the boat. Chuck's one, and I'm the other - and I don't think either of us would give you hard time about it!

All the best,

Mark.

Yes I doubt that too!

[BRAKIE]

My thoughts:

1.A small workable yard

2.Lots of industries-aviod placing industries on a switch back where you need to move a car to switch another industry-safety issues..

3.A engine house-although not really necessary for diesels they still look nice.

4.A small servicing area..On a small layout one track will suffice with or without a engine house.

5.Scale width roads.Be nice if space allows a drainage ditch on each side of the road.

6.Scenery that makes sense..I think that covers it..Follow good layout planing guides.Remember less can be more.Think:Do I really need a mountain sticking up in the middle of no where? Why not use rolling hills back drop scenes instead? Do I really need to climb a 4% grade just to cross over my track so I can use a bridge? Better would be to suggest crossing a creek,river or road by dropping the scenery below track level instead of climbing that 4% grade.

7.A river or creek..This looks good running along the edge before making a turn into the isle.This method also takes up less space since you only need a suggestion-maybe 1/4-1/2 of the river or creek.

8.Prototypical track design.Ask: Do I really need to jam in 2 tons of track in a 1 ton area?

Sorry, I didn't mean to drift off topic but,feel layouts need to be planned well above all other things.Do that and everything else seems to fall into place.

[wm3798]

Every layout I've ever built has had...

A station...

A bridge...

A tunnel...

A switching area

A yard...

and most importanly (I think)... structure and street lighting...

Lee

[marknewton]

If I ever model Japan I'll be sure to stick in some timber cribbing just to rock the boat! 

Kevin, there's only two people on the forum who'd know you were rocking the boat. Chuck's one, and I'm the other - and I don't think either of us would give you hard time about it!

All the best,

Mark.

[citylimits]

Hello.

 I model the SAL running on the Gulf coast in Florida. I want to show this location and so I need to be authentic and not include items that are associated more with the a mountainous region. Space limitations also determine what I can model and what I would need to leave off from my wish list of scenic attractions. However, having said all that, I don't see that I am limited all that much and if I am then it's in a good way as I can model the kinds of things I do like such as piers, wharves, fishing boats, USCG and the Navy - I guess these are perhaps more non-related railway activities. I still can manage a small steam/diesel service yard, some freight car storage, a passenger depot and some small industry serviced by the SAL - but no grand scenic statements such as tunnels and high wood trestles, I'm afraid.

Bruce

[BlueHillsCPR]

Folks:

Not to interfere too much with threadvolution, but I do think we are straying too much into the "have what the prototype / typical prototype has" department.  That's a good department, and you'll note I addressed it in my post.  For instance, I don't have a wood trestle or a tunnel.  It's one we address all the time, though, with the same questions and answers every time.

However, there is always a range of options available, some of which will do more for a layout than others.  SO the question I was considering while cribbin' away was: where we can choose, what should we pick?

Even if we're replicating a prototype, we can do this, because we can rarely copy every mile.  The grade-crossing suggestion is great...not every foot of ROW has a grade crossing, but because it helps a viewer relate to the scene, that's a very good section of ROW to model.

Obviously, not everybody can have cribbing or tunnels, but if you are one of these people, what do you consider something a model railroad representing some area of Japan or Kansas ought to have, to be interesting and railroady in that Japan or Kansas way? 

 

Very well said, and I agree.  Even the prototype can stand a bit of freelance now and then.  IMO.  This is one reason why I do not, (at this time) want to model the protype myself.  I don't ever want to be held back by the real world.  I'd rather let my immagination run wild.  For instance.  If I ever model Japan I'll be sure to stick in some timber cribbing just to rock the boat! 

[selector]

If you have much rural scenery, there'd be pasture, cattle, and a water pump windmill. 

Dusty lanes and country roads.  It's on my list.

Split rail fences....they're not hard to construct.  It's on my list.

There were plenty of buses.  I have one bus.

Schoolhouse, church (as was said), water hole or park with kids at a swimming pool.

Sawmill.   Could be a mobile one mounted on a truck.

Trees.  Lots of 'em in variety.

A picnic table.

I'll let someone else add more

[Bikerdad]

A cow.

Every layout should have at least one.

For a subway/urban scene, it can be a mad cow.  Or it can be a "plastic cow" at the local steakhouse.

[dale8chevyss]

I've always thought that a water scene should be on a layout somewhere (can use bridge for this).  I installed a small pond on the corner of my layout a couple of months ago.  It isn't much, but it's something that draws attention and conversation.  Also, I enjoy as many "lit" things as possible.  I like to run my trains in the dark.  Billboards and street clocks and what have you; the more the better (within moderation of course).

[Guilford Guy]

Track

Every piece of trackwork should not be in view from any angle

Some sort of grade seperation.  Scenery should not be groundfoam and track on one flat piece of plywood.

Vehicles and Inhabitants

Bridges

Water Features

 

[Autobus Prime]

Folks:

Not to interfere too much with threadvolution, but I do think we are straying too much into the "have what the prototype / typical prototype has" department.  That's a good department, and you'll note I addressed it in my post.  For instance, I don't have a wood trestle or a tunnel.  It's one we address all the time, though, with the same questions and answers every time.

However, there is always a range of options available, some of which will do more for a layout than others.  SO the question I was considering while cribbin' away was: where we can choose, what should we pick?

Even if we're replicating a prototype, we can do this, because we can rarely copy every mile.  The grade-crossing suggestion is great...not every foot of ROW has a grade crossing, but because it helps a viewer relate to the scene, that's a very good section of ROW to model.

Obviously, not everybody can have cribbing or tunnels, but if you are one of these people, what do you consider something a model railroad representing some area of Japan or Kansas ought to have, to be interesting and railroady in that Japan or Kansas way? 

[BobG]

First and formost.....

 

My wife's permission

As i like scenic area's, trees, maybe a stream and a reason to be there.

[vsmith]

Things every layout should have.

 

Err...track?

After that its really dependant on your locale...some places may never have had timber cribbing for example, or any such was long since replaced by stone or concrete retaining walls, so it depends...Time, location, terrain, but otherwise its modelers choice.

[tomikawaTT]

The things every model railroad should have are the things that were typical of the prototype being modeled.  Also, they should be a lot more specifically described:

• Timber cribbing?  I have built it full-size in Tennessee, but don't try to find it in Japan!
• Timber trestle?  The prototypes of the two dinky narrow gauge lines I will be including in my modeling had heavy steel bridges on masonry piers, not timber trestles.  The logger laid temporary branches on trestlework - assembled from slash picked off the forest floor!
• "A Bridge."  What kind, and how big?  The Hell Gate Arch?  The Starrucca (or Tunkhannock) Viaduct.  A short deck girder over a one-lane rural road?  The prototype built bridges when it couldn't avoid them, not just to have bridges.
• "A tunnel."  Again, are we talking Moffatt, Cascade, or the oversize rain culvert that carried the Rock under I-40 at Tucumcari, NM?

In my humble opinion, a model railroad should have smoothly laid, derailment-averse trackwork, whatever scenic elements the owner likes and a track plan conducive to the kind of operation the owner favors.  Anything more is gravy.

Take any, "Expert opinion," including mine, with a grain of salt - and then do what YOU like.

Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - without a lot of things 'experts' tell me I should have)

[cbq9911a]

Some things every layout should have, IMHO:

1. Named places.  Names establish the character of a place.  The intersection of [Vaclav] Havel St. and [Eamon] DeValera Rd. is in a very different community than the intersection of [Richard] Nixon St. and [John] Birch Ave.

2. A railroad station.

3. A church.  Churches also establish the character of a place. For example, a large gothic Catholic church built in Joliet limestone says "Midwest", while a Mission style Episcopal church says "California".

4. Billboards.

[Anonymous]

Let's see which ones I have one my layout...

1. Timber cribbing - Nope

2. A tunnel. - Thought about having one, but decided against it. I do have one place where it would look pretty good though!

3. A bridge. - Check!

4. A tall wood trestle. - Nope! Definetely would be out of place on a modern shortline.

5. Structures unrelated to the railroad. - Check! I probably have more unrelated structuresthan I do railroad related structures, just as in the real world.

6: Backdrop - Check!

7: Grade Crossing - Check! I have 5 so far, not counting any I include in my new White River Jct area. 2 of them have flashing lights.

8: Roundhouse - Not really appropriate on a modern shortline.

9: Signals - These would be great to have, but they're expensive, so I have other things on my list that come first, like building the yard so my trains can run...

10: Water feature - I have a swamp, a canal, and a drainage pond.

11: Farm - I have one field with a tractor, plus a small barn with an area for cows.

12: Lighting - I have three streetlamps so far, and have plans for some structures as well. Like the signals, these are a long way from the top of my "to-do" list.

13: Stations: Every town on the layout has one, except for White River Junction, so far. There isn't any passenger service anymore though...

14: Animation - Nope... Would be cool, but other things come first...

15: A cut - Check! I have two cuts.

16: View blocks - See above, and there's also two places where the tracks go through the backdrop, disguised with bridges or other means.

[dehusman]

1. Timber cribbing, as stated by Lee Vande Visse.

Not essential, not that common on some routes, not real common in the midwest.

2. A tunnel.

Not essential, most people have one because they have a situation where a track goes under other tracks.  There are entire states without tunnels.

3. A bridge. See #2, but along with that, I think a bridge does the most good for the least outlay to break the illusion of a world created for the trains. Cut a valley and bridge over it, and suddenly there is a world under that surface.

I agree here, a bridge forces the modeler to think in 3 dimensions and creates a visual depth, even a flat prairie has ditches and creeks.

4. A tall wood trestle.

Very over done.  If you are modeling 1880, yes, if you are modeling any time after WW1 its probably not going to look right.

5. Structures unrelated to the railroad.

I'll go with this one.  It adds to setting the atmosphere, locale and tone of the layout.

Since your suggestions are all scenic items (as opposed to operational items, which is a completely different list) I will suggest my own.  Lets start with the two from your list:

1.  A bridge.

2.  Non-railroad structures.

and I'll add:

3.  A cut, where the terrain goes above the track.

4.  A view block, where the train goes behind or between some scenic elements, be it buildings, trees, rocks or the cut mentioned above.

5.  A grade crossing, the place where we are most likely to encounter a train.

Dave H.

[BlueHillsCPR]

Good idea!

I never thought about timber cribbing before, but now that you mention it, yes I want some on my layout too.

I think every layout needs some sort of water feature.

A farm has always appealed to me.

Lighting, lighting and more lighting on the layout!

Some form of annimation other than just the trains.

[MisterBeasley]

The average person interacts with railroads in two places - a grade crossing, and a station.  So, these are logical things to put on a layout.

Personally, I like a turntable and roundhouse, but of course, that's not going to be appropriate on a lot of layouts.  (Likewise, timber trestles look great, but on a low-rise layout like mine, without canyons and gorges, it would stretch the scenic imagination to have one.)

I like signals, too.  Mine are used simply as turnout indicators, but the effect is there, and visitors get the idea that the signalling system is functional, not purely decorative.

[chutton01]

Well, in modern era urban layouts, timber cribbing retaining walls might be rare (there certainly are some, but usually they are outnumbered by concrete and/or block walls (and brick, and even corrugated steel, but concrete or block retaining walls are predominate). OTOH, I could have a residence's yard w/ some timber tie flower beds.

I agree with tunnels (in my case, short pour concrete with roads above) and bridges (girder for large ones - and culverts/small steel trestles for small streams) are good devices to add visual view interest. Also I agree with non-railroad structures - goodness, even in heavy industrial areas railroad related area might be, what 2% (think of the area occupied by industries, and then the amount dedicated to rail infrastructure serving that industry - unless we're talking about a storage rail yard, it's usually not much).

I wish to mention backdrops/view blocks - even simple ones painted, say, light blue, helps increase the layout realism.

[Autobus Prime]

Folks:

Yesterday, I was making some timber cribbing out of stripwood. The late Lee Vande Visse once opined that every railroad should have some timber cribbing, and I agree with him. It's easy to make, it looks cool, it's all over prototype RRs, and it impresses visitors with little effort and cost.

This got me to thinking, while I pieced cribbing together, about other things that a model railroad should have. Some of them might be closely associated with the world of railroading, and the railroad just doesn't look right without them. Some of them might be motivated by showmanship. For most of us, the majority of visitors aren't modelers, and a little effort to impress them in a way that still looks good to knowledgeable modelers can help bring more people in.

Of course, not all of us will have the same list. For instance, a tunnel is on mine, but tunnels sometimes look out of place (I don't have one).

Here's a few to start the ball rolling:

1. Timber cribbing, as stated by Lee Vande Visse. :)

2. A tunnel. Not everybody should or can have one, but visitors love to see them...and really, most of us probably do too, in some back corner of the subconscious. My son is utterly obsessed with tunnels, and builds them with Duplo blocks. I still remember how cool I thought the tunnels on a local modeler's layout were, when on a Scout tour...without that, who knows if I'd have gone into the hobby?

3. A bridge. See #2, but along with that, I think a bridge does the most good for the least outlay to break the illusion of a world created for the trains. Cut a valley and bridge over it, and suddenly there is a world under that surface.

4. A tall wood trestle. Again, see #2, and sometimes a wood trestle is just not typical enough. Still, for a structure that generates visual interest without being especially tough to build, it's hard to beat a trestle.

5. Structures unrelated to the railroad. While it's possible to build only the rail customers, a layout like that just doesn't speak to a lot of people, because it's entirely in another world. Put in a few houses, or a highway with some cars, or a gas station, or a farm, and suddenly you bring that world into ours, by giving viewers something they can relate to.

What do you think?