As a wee lad I seem to recall reading about water troughs to feed the water tenders on steam locomotives. The trough layed between the rails and was quite long. As the tender passed over the trough a scoop was lowered and the tender received water without stopping. Does anyone remember this or am I having a senior moment?
the goat
Nope. I know that they were used by both the PRR and NYC.
Dave H.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Not a senior moment at all. I recall seeing them on certain sections of of the NYC, typically used by long distance express trains to eliminate water stops. The refill-at-speed process was quite a spectacular sight, to say the least! As I recall, the proper name for them was "pans". I believe they were heated in winter to prevent the water from freezing.
CNJ831
You, Sir, must be British. A British invention--where they were indeed called a "water trough"-- the device saw only limited service in the US where they were refered to as a "track pan".
Sometime back around the time of Moses there was a thread on this topic here on the forum. One of our members recounted that, as a kid living along the water level route somewhere, even in the 1960s long after the demise of the steam engine, there was a track pan still in place along the mainline near his home.
From the far, far reaches of the wild, wild west I am: rtpoteet
Yup. Track pans and tender scoops. Reminds me of a purchase I made back in the late '60's, a used brass Akane USRA heavy 4-6-2. The tender had a water-scoop casting on the bottom that I never really noticed until I was running the loco on my cousin's layout. He grinned and asked me why I needed a track-pan water-scoop on my tender when I was modeling a railroad with heavy mountain grades. I didn't know what he was talking about until he explained the whole NYC, PRR thing to me.
I still have the 4-6-2, and yes, the tender still has the water-scoop. I certainly can't catch much 'water' with it at 35smph on a 2% grade, though, LOL!
Tom
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
Here is a video showing two NYC Niagaras taking on water via track pans. Note that in each case, the engineer toots the horn (not the whistle...many Northern class engines had whistles and horns) to warn standers-by of the forcible spraying of the right of way.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKx23npnYYk
In Britain, when filling from the track pans, if the fireman wasn't quick enough to take out the scoop when the tank was full, the passengers in the leading car might get a free shower (the railway didn't charge them for it).
Dennis
I have (not so) fond memories of a free shower I got on a cold, blustery November day, courtesy of a NYC Niagara taking water at track speed south of Poughkeepsie, NY. The NYC pedestal tender was rigged with vents and a reinforced duct above the scoop to accept water at full speed, but it sprayed about as much across the countryside (and bystanders) as it got into the tank.
Track pans were only useful where the track was dead level and trains were frequent. West Texas was level enough, but far more water would have been lost to evaporation than would have ever been scooped by the relatively infrequent locos passing through.
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - without track pans)
R. T. POTEET wrote: You, Sir, must be British. A British invention--where they were indeed called a "water trough"-- the device saw only limited service in the US where they were refered to as a "track pan".
I'm guessing he's not British...unless the UK's "Great Northern Railway" also used the same Rocky the goat as it's mascot that the US GN did.
The PRR Lindbergh Special (E6s 4-4-2 and 2 cars) blew the lid off the cistern by trying to take water too fast, then had to make a water stop to have enough to reach Manhattan Transfer.
The train was carrying precious cargo - the raw newsreel footage of Charles Lindberg's triumphal visit to DC after his famous transAtlantic solo. Other companies loaded their film onto aircraft and processed it after landing close to New York. The baggage car behind Pennsy's Atlantic was fitted as a film processing lab, so when the train stopped at the platforms under Penn Station the ready-for-prime-time prints could be rushed to waiting theaters while the competition was still waiting for theirs to dry.
(Compare to now - direct-feed video to satellite, available everywhere from Valparaiso to Vladivostok in about two seconds!)
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
There were also track pans on the Royal Blue Line between Baltimore and Jersey City. I know there were pans at Stanton DE on the B&O and I think another set on the B&O in MD and a set up above Philadelphia on the Reading. There was a small building (pump house) at the Stanton site at least up till the end of the 1960's.
Some of the old passenger men used to tell stories about taking water on the fly. The scoop was operated by the fireman with an air valve in the gangway on the engineer's side. Sometimes they wouldn't get the scoop up in time...
selector wrote: Here is a video showing two NYC Niagaras taking on water via track pans. Note that in each case, the engineer toots the horn (not the whistle...many Northern class engines had whistles and horns) to warn standers-by of the forcible spraying of the right of way.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKx23npnYYk
Selector, Thank You for posting that video clip, I found it very interesting. It also clearly showed something that happened much more in the real world than is ever modeled, that being the mixing of Heavyweight and Lightweight passenger equipment. Most model Passenger trains are matched Heavy or Light weight cars with mixing rare, even the colors are matched (I am Guilty of this too) The real railroads would use what was needed, as needed, if Heavies and lights got mixed, so be it. The Passengers got where they wanted to go, and the RR got paid.
Doug
May your flanges always stay BETWEEN the rails
Doug, if I have watched that video once, I have watched it 50 times. It is as if I see something new in it every time. I did notice some time ago that the passenger cars are of mixed pedigree, and it made me realize that, as you have said, the railroads did what they had to do to make a go of things. I don't know if their grand limited passenger trains were mixed, I doubt that it was the rule, but I wouldn't doubt that they even had to mix them up sometimes to meet schedules and demand.
Personally, I get a weird feeling in the pit of my stomach when I watch archival footage like this, wondering what was going through people's minds at the time, who was at the throttle, even what my own mother might have been doing at the moment this was taken. She would have been pregnant with me or thereabouts in her life when this was taken.
-Crandell
Hi Crandell,
Not to Hijack this thread with an off-topic discussion, but I do suspect that the mixed pedigree cars would be more common on numbered trains than the "Name" trains. But even with the name trains, it did happen on occasion, more important to sell the tickets than worry about what type of car it is, so long as it does the job.
I'm as Guilty as the next guy when it comes to "matching" equipment on the passenger trains, because, Well, they just look SOOOO NICE that way, mixed locals on branch lines are another oft over-looked practice in modeling.
Remember, the 20th Century ran in sections and may have had as many as nine sections. So the first section may have been the matched car set. As each section was sent out they would have mixed cars in the section as cars were pulled from the yard to make up the section.
Rick
Rule 1: This is my railroad.
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Rule 3: Illuminating discussion of prototype history, equipment and operating practices is always welcome, but in the event of visitor-perceived anacronisms, detail descrepancies or operating errors, consult RULE 1!
Shouldn't be too hard to model with styrene...
I know nobody's talking about modeling one, but I thought I'd throw that out there... This is the MR forum after all!