I think model railroaders are some of the cheapest folks I've ever meet second only to pilots. I'm both so I've got room and experience to talk.
I belong to one club that charges $100/year. Very cheap. A starting club that I will be a charter member of is $75 initiation and $30/month.
Compared to my golf and hunting I think these club dues are on the cheap side.
For the record I'm all for reduced rates for seniors/students who aren't yet or out of the workforce.
The club I belong to charges $6 a month or $60 a year. We own our own land and depot. How can we get away with such dues? Easy. We have one hell of a train show we put on every year that covers our expenses for the year plus $$$ for savings. We are also a 501c3 non-profit organization. All members are expected to work the train show and open houses (2x a year) since that is our source of income. The show is A LOT of work, but in the end it works out very well.
On a side note, I know of at least three clubs with high dues just to make sure they are getting "serious" modelers. One of the clubs also does it to make sure they only get adults. Sad, that they would purposely exclude a group, but it is their club and what they do with it is their business, which is why i would not join that club. Shop around and see where you fit. There may be a "round robin" group in your area you could join.
Clubs do have a lot to offer, esp. if one does have their own layout...
Chuck
Modeling the Motor City
ChrisNH wrote: jrbernier wrote: Dues are $30/month, and there have been 'assesments' as we need additional materials for the layout construction. Something like your "assesments" would be a worry for me. Easier for the wealthier members.. but while me and the wife could budget $30/mo if we had to (and if I could find a club locally!) it would be very hard at times to suddenly come up with more money. I have wondered how clubs balance the desires of wealthier members against the very real budgets of some other folks who may have time and enthusiasm but not so much money. Its kind of like the whole property tax thing where some folks want lots of expensive services while others are content to haul their trash to the dump to keep taxes down.. Chris
jrbernier wrote: Dues are $30/month, and there have been 'assesments' as we need additional materials for the layout construction.
Dues are $30/month, and there have been 'assesments' as we need additional materials for the layout construction.
Something like your "assesments" would be a worry for me. Easier for the wealthier members.. but while me and the wife could budget $30/mo if we had to (and if I could find a club locally!) it would be very hard at times to suddenly come up with more money.
I have wondered how clubs balance the desires of wealthier members against the very real budgets of some other folks who may have time and enthusiasm but not so much money. Its kind of like the whole property tax thing where some folks want lots of expensive services while others are content to haul their trash to the dump to keep taxes down..
Chris
Chris,I am going to hit on a very sour note..Some clubs have high dues in order to keep "less than desirable" modelers on the outside looking in.These are the clubs that look down their long noses on any brand other then Atlas,Kato or OMI.Guys like us don't ask to join..They ask us only after we pass their assessment of us starting with the type of vehicle we drive..
All to sadly I know of one such club that I visit twice a year because I know 3 of the members for years..No they have never ask and I wouldn't if I could and my 3 friends know that.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
The club i belong to is $12 a year. we are a modular club and do not have permanant layout building. We have 3 shows a year where we make money for the club. The club with the permanent layout is $25 a month. They "play train " every saturday So I guess they get their money's worth Too steep for me right now but considering in the future.
Chris,
You bring up a good point, and here is what we did:
We have told folks looking at membership in our club that there would be assesments presented each quarter as the initial construction went forward. A couple of folks had concerns about the assesments and at one meeting we ditched installation of Tortoise switch machines for the 17 staging tracks. We installed 'used' Caboose Industries ground throws that were donated by a member. Now the same two people want Tortoise motors installed, and are pushing for it to be brought up at the next meeting. Good thing I made sure the 3/4" holes were drilled under each turnout before they were laid!
I have been in several club over the years. One club had $1/month dues(since 1939) and we were going to raise the dues to $2/month in 1975. Even with the 'cheap' dues, we had folks whine about any assesment or raise in dues. They are also the first ones to want to retire to the coffee shop, and spend more money on a food in one month than the whole year of dues increase would cost them - Priorities!
Jim
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
maxman wrote:I don't like the assessment idea either. That's why we raised the dues to at least cover the normal yearly expenses.
I don't like the assessment idea either. That's why we raised the dues to at least cover the normal yearly expenses.
I think I would be cooler with the idea of a higher fixed dues then occasionally raising cash. Its all about the budget. I can probably convince my wife another $10 a month is a good idea.. but suddenly having $120 come up would be tough if not impossible.
BRAKIE wrote:Chris,I am going to hit on a very sour note..Some clubs have high dues in order to keep "less than desirable" modelers on the outside looking in.
Chris,I am going to hit on a very sour note..Some clubs have high dues in order to keep "less than desirable" modelers on the outside looking in.
Thats very unfortunate. The "country club effect" is kind a funny double standard. On the one hand, a lot of folks are fine with the idea that you need to pay a certain amount to prove your interest. The same people would scream if you said they had to put in a certain amount of time or adhere to a certain level of craftsmanship.
Curiously.. it seems like the standard of participation in these posts is money not time although I guess that was the subject of the thread.
macjet wrote:I think model railroaders are some of the cheapest folks I've ever meet second only to pilots. I'm both so I've got room and experience to talk.I belong to one club that charges $100/year. Very cheap. A starting club that I will be a charter member of is $75 initiation and $30/month.
While I don't disagree that those charges don't seem excessive, I do think one has to be careful in how one views folks. For many of us, fitting a leisure cost, especially one that may not be shared by the whole family, is difficult to do and it has little to do with whats reasonable. I thought the cost of the Boston and Maine RS2 walthers is coming out with in N scale was reasonable, but its still too expensive for me.
jrbernier wrote: A couple of folks had concerns about the assesments and at one meeting we ditched installation of Tortoise switch machines for the 17 staging tracks.
A couple of folks had concerns about the assesments and at one meeting we ditched installation of Tortoise switch machines for the 17 staging tracks.
It sounds like your club is sensitive to the fact not everyone is capable of "surprise" out of pocket expenses. I suspect the ability of single folks to put money in the hobby contrasts with those raising a family.
I spend $800/month on daycare right now, it will be $1600 next year. Thats a lot of hobby money..
BRAKIE wrote: ChrisNH wrote: jrbernier wrote: Dues are $30/month, and there have been 'assesments' as we need additional materials for the layout construction. Something like your "assesments" would be a worry for me. Easier for the wealthier members.. but while me and the wife could budget $30/mo if we had to (and if I could find a club locally!) it would be very hard at times to suddenly come up with more money. I have wondered how clubs balance the desires of wealthier members against the very real budgets of some other folks who may have time and enthusiasm but not so much money. Its kind of like the whole property tax thing where some folks want lots of expensive services while others are content to haul their trash to the dump to keep taxes down.. Chris Chris,I am going to hit on a very sour note..Some clubs have high dues in order to keep "less than desirable" modelers on the outside looking in.These are the clubs that look down their long noses on any brand other then Atlas,Kato or OMI.Guys like us don't ask to join..They ask us only after we pass their assessment of us starting with the type of vehicle we drive..All to sadly I know of one such club that I visit twice a year because I know 3 of the members for years..No they have never ask and I wouldn't if I could and my 3 friends know that.
Thats very interesting, kinda funny in an ironic way, because some of the best modelers I have met, are not - what you would say "flushed with cash"?
In fact its their very poorness that made them such dam good modelers, most of us here have read about people that have alot of money also tend to have layouts built by professional layout builders. Kinda sad that some clubs would consider you undesirable based on what car brand you drove into the lot with over what your modeling portfolio might look like. In cases like that I'm reminded of Groucho Marx's famous decline to be a member of the prestigious Friars Club,
"I sent the club a wire stating, 'PLEASE ACCEPT MY RESIGNATION. I DON'T WANT TO BELONG TO ANY CLUB THAT WILL ACCEPT ME AS A MEMBER'."
Have fun with your trains
vsmith,Just remember that Brakie's club is for the lowest common demoninator. I don't mean that in a bad way, but from his descriptions in the past, that's what they do. Their standards are set so that anyone can operate & maintain their layout...which means they are set to the lowest skill setting. I want to point out again that there's nothing wrong with that, but it is what it is, and that's where Brakie's viewpoint comes from.
Most other clubs that I've been to or heard of strive to be the best they can be to the limits of their skills and finances. They want the best equipment running on the best layout possible. They have standards that prevent "pizza cutter" flanges and X2F horn-hook couplers. Some are even more restrictive in that cars and locos have to meet certain operational standards, or belong to a certain era or have a certain level of detail. These kinds of clubs are places that I'd want to be a part of. Not because I'm a snobby rivet-counter, but because I want to be part of a club that strives for better things rather than one that doesn't.
Paul A. Cutler III************Weather Or No Go New Haven************
FREE!!!!
We just started a module club in Port Huron MI (blue water model railroad club) an we curently use an open upstairs space thanks to the local hobby store plus, we get a 10% disscount on trains at the store (smiley is a major understatement of that privlage) hopefuly we will never have to have a club fee of over $50 a year, most of our members do not have the buget for high club costs.
TA462 wrote:an overweight old dude that smells funny
an overweight old dude that smells funny
Well, that explains why people always associate model trains with Christmas trees..
I belonged to Elmhurst Model R.R.
They had a very large H.O. and N. gauge layout.
The dues were very good.
Then the Dictators began to run R.R. flee/swap markets to rase more money.
Quickly they got very big and began The Midwest Great train shows in Weaton, Il. Then across the nation.
Quickly we had a lot of money and purchaced a building in Bensenville, Il. We started a very large H.O. and N. gauge layout.
Then the Dictators relized that they were making a great deal of money.
They broke away with the train shows and left the club high and dry with large bills.
Metra Kid 2 wrote:The one I want to get into is $55/month and $5 to rent a throttle unless you bring your own
Where is the club located at? I am in th west burbs of Chicago and would like to join a club, only one I really found was Elmhurst. Do they have a website?
To cut directly to the core of the original topic -
IF YOU CAN'T AFFORD THE DUES, DON'T JOIN THE CLUB.
Simple, isn't it!
I can think of a number of reasons for not joining a club [insisting on a specific prototype, imposing restrictions on length of motive power (I have DMU trains with distributed power) and requiring such things as glass in all windows and a locomotive crew in every cab...] Dues too high for my budget is an immediate negative.
Chuck (lone wolf modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
TA462 wrote: an overweight old dude that smells funny
Well at 45 I'm not old, but.. I do maintain a consistant "panda bear" shape,
Hey, whats wrong with "Old Spice" next you'll be griping about my bottle of "Hai Karate" cologne I still have...
Well guys thank's for all the tips, advise, etc. As with most of us I am on a somewhat limited budget with a single income a wife, 2 kids, a dog, and 3 cats. But I feel that I need to join a club to further my model railroad knowledge. Right or wrong I cannot see how going "lone wolf" is going to help me in the long run. Besides, I think it would be very cool to spend the time with my son at a club. Think of all the other places I could be!
So maybe what I thought was the right price was a bit lower than it should have been. Maybe it's just right. It doesn't really matter, I guess.
I started this post without intending to get into right or wrongs. Just a question about what you pay and do the benefits outweigh any negatives. 'Nuff said. Thank you all for your answers and comments. I'm off to get my application completed and start my next journey down the rails.
Best of luck to you all.
Jay
sparkyjay31 wrote: Besides, I think it would be very cool to spend the time with my son at a club. Think of all the other places I could be!Best of luck to you all.Jay
Besides, I think it would be very cool to spend the time with my son at a club. Think of all the other places I could be!
And if you get any resistance from the wife, the above should be selling points #1 and #2.
TomDiehl wrote:One of the problems that I've seen stated in several of the posts is how to handle interested younger people that may become our future model railroaders, and balance that against becoming a glorified baby sitting service. I've been a member of three different clubs over the years/moves, and the one I'm currently a member has what I feel is the best solution to that dilema. Our class Junior/Student Member is anyone under 18 years old. They pay no dues, but must be sponsored by a Senior Member. Normally, this is a father or other relative, which makes the next stipulation easier: the Junior member can only be at the club location when the sponsoring Senior member is there. This establishes a "responsible adult" for the Junior member, and if behavior becomes a problem, it can be addressed to the sponsor.
That's sort of the way my old club worked, except the student members had to pay dues too... $15 a month. My dad was the "sponsor member" for me, and he had to be there anyway as it was a half-hour drive by car anyway.
TomDiehl wrote: sparkyjay31 wrote: Besides, I think it would be very cool to spend the time with my son at a club. Think of all the other places I could be!Best of luck to you all.JayAnd if you get any resistance from the wife, the above should be selling points #1 and #2.
Why is it that wives are generally sticking points? I thought mine would be when I brought up the whole issue of going back to model railroading but after we talked about it for a while and we agreed on what limitations would be reslistic we agreed and I was allowed to go back to it with her blessings.
Irv
Our club (outlying Missouri, where rents aren't as high as in more urban/suburban areas) has $25/month membership dues and an initial membership fee (forgot what that was - that was 2-3 years ago), so maybe higher than some. But then again, one of our club members (semi-retired) has a LHS he runs out of his daughter's floral shop, and he gives club members a discount on top of his usual discount off retail in the store, so it isn't as high as the dues alone would seem.
When I joined, the layout benchwork was done, as well as the trackwork and a chunk of the scenery and structures. Then a few months ago, someone wanted our space and was willing to pay us a fairly good sum to entice us to move a couple of doors down the block (same landlord both places). (They have since decided to move somewhere else, but we're not moving back...) We were able to save most of the benchwork (thank Heaven for reciprocating saws and a team of the new tenants' younger guys to help move to the other area), and now have most of the benchwork and 95 percent of the masonite backdrops in place (but not painted). About 2/3 to 3/4 of the enticement fund is still in our club's bank account, and we have the back staging yard (about 8-10 tracks deep) laid and in place, with a swing-away wye track that connects it to the main layout. We have club workdays on some Saturday mornings, and work on the layout/club room during our Monday night meetings. We still have most of the DCC power supplies, boosters and LocoNet jacks from the old layout setup, so most of that will be reusable. We're shooting for being able to run trains (before scenry is done) in the next couple or three months, I'd guess, and should make it on that.
Every few months, we'll have an evening when we eat out as a club. I think we have 9 or 10, maybe 11 members now, and at least a half dozen show up on most club nights, sometimes more.
That's us. Don't know if that makes us in the middle, ahead of some (or behind others), or what.
[Edit] Almost forgot - our club is pretty much modern time period (like AC4400's and such), but we also have a member or two who like older, so in the new layout, we have the 130' turntable and 6 stall roundhouse, so when the guy who has steam locos wants to run them he can. We have a few members who consider that very much scenery or towns is a waste of space, but we're gonna have those, too. So we have a mix of various attitudes about layout designs and setups, but can rib each other about differences without coming to fisticuffs about it.
Jim in Cape Girardeau (MO)
A story was told some time ago about some modern train models laboring along slowly behind a john bull train set type train... or was it a shay? Who knows?
One poster indicated that some folks run POS trains in a club. I suppose that would happen anywhere. However the one Im familiar with, have standards such as weights for boxcars, metal wheels and kaydee type couplers. We are slowly stripping tire places of weights to bring those rolling stock into compliance. Standards are held and enforced.
The method I am taught to use to differentate ownership of rolling stock is to paint a color underneath the rolling stock. That color would be considered "YOUR" color and different than everyone else's
At the end of the day, I dont consider club dues steep. I do have a fixed income more or less a few dollars and that is part of the train money I am permitted to spend. Wife and I know about this in the budget. However, the distance I travel to it makes a difference in gasoline. So I only go when I know the place is open and manned.
TA said:
Money does tend to divide people, it even happens here from time to time. For people that have money there is no reason why they shouldn't want the finer things in life like Kato loco's. We had a club member who regularly brought pieces of junk to run on our club layout at shows. These pieces of junk would regularly derail every 10 minutes, looked like crap and caused other members to not want to run their trains when that member was also running because it would effect their over all enjoyment. Lets face it, who wants to have their Intermountain CP grain train getting regularly sideswiped every ten minutes by a derailing POS? Over my 6 years in the hobby now I've found that there are 4 different groups of Model Railroaders. One group has money and buys almost everything ready to run. The second group has money, use to buy RTR stuff and now just buys expensive kits to build. They are now trying to become great model railroaders. The third group is the majority, they can afford to buy most things but it may take them a month or two to save up for it. They have a few Kato and Atlas loco's but aren't afraid to buy an old Athearn Blue Box loco and detail the heck out of it. They take just as much pride in running a Intermountain car next to a Blue Box kit that they have detailed and weathered. These guys are great modelers and it shows in the quality of their rolling stock and their layouts. Then there is the fourth group. These are the guys that buy the cheap stuff and are very vocal about how the hobby is dieing off because the average Joe, being them can't afford it anymore. This group always seems to be a very negative group. They always talk about how they can convert a old Tyco for example into a better running and detailed loco then a Kato or Atlas. LOL, sure you can. They are always saying that a Blue Box kit car, out of the box is good enough for them so it should be good enough for everybody else as well. This group really turns people off of the hobby. I've seen it at train shows. These are the guys you see trying to get the best deal they can get with a vendor on a Atlas loco but never have any intention of even buying it after waisting the vendors time for 1/2 an hour. Most of these guys are in their 60's, are overweight and don't wear deodorant. Maybe they can't afford it, who knows. They come out to shows and act like they are important and everybody needs to listen to them. These guys don't mind swearing in public and they don't care if its a lady or a little kid within earshot. This is the group that has stereotyped Model Railroaders in general. Face it, ask anybody what their idea of what a model railroader looks like and 99% of the people you ask will be an overweight old dude that smells funny. If raising club membership dues keeps the 4th group of people out then so be it. Most clubs have members from the first 3 groups and they co exist with no problems but throw in one guy from the fourth group and all heck will break loose. Trust me, I've lived it.
------------------
TA,You miss my point completely..These guys don't judge you by your modeling skills..They judge you by the thickness of your wallet even if you run Tyco..If one doesn't pass their scrutiny chances of getting ask to join would be that of a snowball flying through the lower inferno regions.
In short the majority of these guys hold their noses so high I am surprise they don't drown when it rains.Oddly their layout is third rate at best when compared to the other clubs in a 70 mile radius..
I don't think I would want to be a member of a club that projects such a image in the modeling community..
--------------
Paul said:Just remember that Brakie's club is for the lowest common demoninator. I don't mean that in a bad way, but from his descriptions in the past, that's what they do. Their standards are set so that anyone can operate & maintain their layout...which means they are set to the lowest skill setting. I want to point out again that there's nothing wrong with that, but it is what it is, and that's where Brakie's viewpoint comes from.
------------------------------------
Paul,Remember I am a member of three different clubs..2 of the three has strict guide lines and equipment inspections.We just don't handout applications to anybody that happens to wonder in off the street.We do ask you make several visits to insure you like the club and we get to know you..Follow that simple request and you will get a application.
Our membership ranges from low skill to highly skilled modelers that is why our club has 52 members from students to small business owners.
We don't expect everybody to be a "expert" or "advanced" modeler but,their equipment must pass a five point inspection before it can be placed on the layout.
Now..If we depended on "advanced" modelers for our membership our membership would be very low.
The N Scale club has 19 members and rather strict guide lines and oddly the majority of the members is advanced N Scalers that is to say they use C55,LP wheels and body mounted couplers and yet we welcome N Scalers of every skill level..
The other HO club is a laid back club that has very few rules and several open houses.A overall relaxed and fun club..
TA462 wrote: TomDiehl wrote:One of the problems that I've seen stated in several of the posts is how to handle interested younger people that may become our future model railroaders, and balance that against becoming a glorified baby sitting service. I've been a member of three different clubs over the years/moves, and the one I'm currently a member has what I feel is the best solution to that dilema. Our class Junior/Student Member is anyone under 18 years old. They pay no dues, but must be sponsored by a Senior Member. Normally, this is a father or other relative, which makes the next stipulation easier: the Junior member can only be at the club location when the sponsoring Senior member is there. This establishes a "responsible adult" for the Junior member, and if behavior becomes a problem, it can be addressed to the sponsor.My club has one Junior Member and he has been a member at the club longer then I have. He isn't related to anybody in the club and I believe he will be turning sixteen soon. He is a good kid and is an asset to our club. We did change one of our rules to where any future Junior Members must be sponsored by someone but he was exempt from it.
My club has one Junior Member and he has been a member at the club longer then I have. He isn't related to anybody in the club and I believe he will be turning sixteen soon. He is a good kid and is an asset to our club. We did change one of our rules to where any future Junior Members must be sponsored by someone but he was exempt from it.
You are lucky, as we have been with the majority of our Junior Members over the years. Recently, a Junior Member was brought in but some members voted to "bend the rules" a bit and have him sponsored by "the club at large." Unfortunately, with some personal schedule changes, I wasn't at this meeting, and was not avialable to object. During one of our open houses, I constantly had to admonish him for placing objects on the tracks in front of running trains (not always his train), while visitors of the same aproximate age were there to see this bad example, and he insisted on running one locomotive (again, not his) that was incomplete (missing tender and hence rear coupler) and not a reliable runner, which he pushed around with his engine and derailed (per Murphy) at a very inaccessible point on the layout. After dragging out the ladder for the third time, I told the layout director that the next time, I was going to hand him my cell phone and tell him to call his mother to come and get him. And this was only a 4 hour open house.
I doubt they'll be much resistance if I insist on sticking to the sponsoring Senior Member rule in the future.