So tell me what do you think of these models? How is the sound? How well does it run on a 22" radius? Please give me a review.
Please and Thanks!
Don't have one, but Bruce ran one for me over at the shop a couple of weeks ago when I went in to confirm my reservation for the Sunset Z-6 4-6-6-4. That aside, it sounded good and ran well. Looked good, also.
But 22 inch radius? I don't think so. Those are big, fixed drivers on that baby, and I wouldn't think it would be comfortable on anything except a 24" or larger. That's one BIG Northern.
To compare it, well, I've got the older BLI model and I've got no complaints, except that for a loco that big, I'd really feel more comfortable with SPRUNG drivers. I don't run it much because of the dual DC/DCC mode that takes WAY too much power to get going on DC (which I what I use), but the Blueline detail seems to be as nice as the original BLI.
As I said, I think the Blueline is a beautiful locomotive. But 22"? Not without some problems, IMO.
Tom
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
I'll disagree a wee bit with Tom. Assuming both engines are very close to scale for their prototypes, my NYC Niagara does very well on 22" curves. It wasn't happy with some of my trackwork on my first layout when I introduced the two, but with some determined prying and prodding, lifting and shifting, I managed to enjoy the Niagara on that layout for a few weeks before I had to tear down the layout. That was with non-eased 22" radius EZ-Track.
One class of the Northern on the AT&SF (3751) had 73" drivers, while the other three had 80" drivers. Even so, the Niagara had 79" drivers, nearly identical to the Northerns on the AT&SF, and for practical purposes on the models, identical. So, if you have decent track, smooth, maybe even rudimentary easements, you should be fine. Maybe not 100 scale mph fine, but good enough for "track" speed.
Crandell:
I'll certainly bow to you if you had no problem with your Niagara on the 22". It's just that with the BLI, everytime it hits a joint in my curves (and they're 34" minimum) I keep hearing this huge THUNK, from the drivers (and my curves are smooth) that I don't get with other long-wheel based non-articulateds of mine. I've got an even LONGER wheel-based brass Rio Grande Northern that glides over the joints with no problem--as do my sprung GS-4's, but the BLI seems to pick out every joint in my track. It's never derailed, but with all of that weight and large non-sprung drivers, I just don't really trust it.
Glad yours works, though. Just could be my loco. But I still wonder about that LARGE a driver wheelbase on 22".
Hey, maybe it's just me and I'm paranoid.
Tom, I no longer have anything less than about 24" on the layout (which will become an issue when I get my brassssssssss (love that sound) Selkirk near Christmas. It'll need 30" minimums.) So I have put my initial misgivings about a 4-8-4 and 22" curves in the past. Still, though, I don't recall having a clunking over joints. You are a highly seasoned (and accomplished ) modeller, so it would be with a wince that I wonder if one of your driver sets is a bit off kilter...out of gauge or off centre, maybe a rod only makes enough contact with a screw or another rod when the drivers are sliding to accommodate the tight curve? Is this clunk universal on all joints on all 22" curves, or do you just have the one and it always clunks there? Dunno....but for my recent tenure in the hobby, I'd look closely at flange/rail end interfacing...the hard type...or rod interference when the drivers have to use up almost all of their side-play.
When I built this latest layout, I wanted lots of breathing room for later acquisitions because I was into large beasts in a big way. So, the absolute smallest curve I have is probably a true 18" on a rarely used spur to a machine shop where rolling stock gets repaired. Otherwise, it is 24", with 28" the smallest out on the main.
I am still bowled over after you decided to let us in on your layout secrets. Whew...that's some skill you have there.
-Crandell
One class of the Northern on the AT&SF (3751) had 73" drivers, while the other three had 80" drivers.
The 3751 class was ORIGINALLY built with 73" drivers. However, the entire class was rebuilt with 80" drivers.
Andre
I have the BLI j type that will handle the 22" and some light mikes. I just like to know what is best and what works. I never believe the manufacter saying it will run on 22" until I see it. I currently have a 8x11 and that is the largest i can says the woman of the house. So I have built one mainline that has 22" atlas code 100 turns. Each turn has 4 22" 9in track pieces. I have room to make a larger main line with larger radius but I have not setup the flextrack yet. I wish I had a tool that would tell what my flextrack radius is as I shape it to the curve. Oh well I am blabbing again......
I love large heavy steam and have not issues with Yb-6s or my bigboys. I am staying away from decapods but trying to find more 4-8-4s that are agreeable to my track. ....or make my track more agreeable to the steamers I want. Stupid question: is there 24" snap track code 100? Sorry I had to ask.
Crandell
I hope I didn't misinform anyone about 22" radii--my MINIMUM is 34". And you could very possibly be right about the loco wheels perhaps being out of gauge or possibly a rod problem. I'll be frank--I really haven't run the loco that much to really 'test' the problems with it on the rail joints, especially on my many and varied curves. But it is NOT the smoothest running loco I have, and frankly, I'm thinking of getting rid of it (as most of my BLI's, but that's another story). It just seems to be too 'clunky' on my track, even though it's a smooth runner, whereas my other locos of the same wheel arrangement don't even let me know they've gone over the joints. Perhaps I should take a look at the gauge on the drivers.
However, bringing it out of the yard on my Sinohara #5's onto the main, I have no trouble with it as far as the curveature of the points. However it DOES seem to pick up every joint in my track with a THUNK! Maybe I'm just spoiled because so many of my other locos have sprung drivers and 'glide' better.
PS: Thanks for the compliments. Coming from a fine modeler such as yourself, they're REALLY appreciated!
PPS: When you get that Selkirk, I expect to hear the joyous YESSSSSSS!! all the way down here in Northern California
GTX765 wrote: I have the BLI j type that will handle the 22" and some light mikes. I just like to know what is best and what works. I never believe the manufacter saying it will run on 22" until I see it. I currently have a 8x11 and that is the largest i can says the woman of the house. So I have built one mainline that has 22" atlas code 100 turns. Each turn has 4 22" 9in track pieces. I have room to make a larger main line with larger radius but I have not setup the flextrack yet. I wish I had a tool that would tell what my flextrack radius is as I shape it to the curve. Oh well I am blabbing again...... I love large heavy steam and have not issues with Yb-6s or my bigboys. I am staying away from decapods but trying to find more 4-8-4s that are agreeable to my track. ....or make my track more agreeable to the steamers I want. Stupid question: is there 24" snap track code 100? Sorry I had to ask.
You can make a tramel to figure out how your curves should lie, or use cut-out cereal box cardboard templates. Just drive a tack into a sheet of plywood where an end of string or strong thread is tied to the tack. Then measure out your desired radius with the string or thread drawn snugly, but not twangy tight. Where you find your radius along the length, pinch it with a pencil and draw a nice arc going about 10" in each direction from centre, running your pencil on the piece of cardboard (taped down so it won't move). That will be your centreline. Meaure out your gauge on either side of that centreline and thencut out the curved piece. Mark each template so you won't guess later....they can look similar and fool you.
About the decapod...their drivers were quite small as steamers go; they had a relatively small wheelbase compared to the Texas type 2-10-4. So the Bachmann Dec will be fine on curves down to 18".
Bachmann makes turnouts and curves in their EZ-Track line up to something like 36" last I heard. They've been out for nearly two years now. Your 4-8-4 of any make except brass should be good on #4.5 turnouts and on up.
GTX--
I'll chime in with Crandell on the Decapod--they have quite a small wheelbase despite the number of drivers and should give you no problems with an 18" radius. Actually, I have an old PFM brass "Frisco" 2-10-0 that I ran very successfully on my nephew's 18" radius, and being brass, it had even TIGHTER tolerances than the Spectrum model.
You should have no problems at all.
Just to put this in place, my blueline big boy is fine with 18" or 22" radius and #4 turnouts.
Mark, they're really two different animals. I haven't checked, but if it is wheeled like the Challenger, the BB had 69" drivers. Even though it had eight wheels, its wheelbase for each engine was considerably smaller than the wheelbase for a 80" driver set. Also, the engines swivel on the model, so there really is no way to compare the two.
Edit - The BB had 68" drivers, so unless they were kept well apart by design, and I don't believe so, its wheelbase was that much smaller.
twhite wrote:It's just that with the BLI, everytime it hits a joint in my curves (and they're 34" minimum) I keep hearing this huge THUNK, from the drivers (and my curves are smooth)
Well maybe your curves are too broad, try a sharper radii, and it will run much better!
Alex
I have a bigboy and the Yb-6, the engines that are scary are the MTH GS-4 which I returned due to damages when it was shipped. I guess I need to stay away from the large drivers style engines. My layout has gotten larger and I like large steam. I am trying to find another steamer that I can run that is not dink and is not huge. The MTH GS-4 is very picky about my track work. More than any other engine. I assumed the ATSF 4-8-4 would be too. I will see if I can make 24" work with flex track but need time to do so. My main will be 24" and in inside line will be 22". Right now the 22" is on the table and it seems to run my engines nicely. I just see alot of ATSF 4-8-4 for sale and thought soon they will drop the price and i will grab one. I just have read forums and people say its clunky on the turns and thumps into the turns. I could not really imagine this so I wanted to ask on who has one. My 22" turns are nice and flat not sure my layout will handle a incline at this time. I do enjoy this discussion.
My issues with Bachman, I bought one the other day. Its like a 0-8-0 or something like that. The sound setting is turned all the way up and its so quiet you cannot hear it over the other steamers. Very quite and not what i wanted. If the 2-10-2 is a bit louder than I will try one. I like the southern 2-10-2 but was afraid of a decapod not working on my radius.
The 2-10-2 configuration is called the Santa Fe. A decapod, which Bachmann makes/has made...not sure if they are still out...is a 2-10-0, also called Russian. As I said earlier, it had relatively small drivers, and the Bachmanns are true to scale such that they do just fine on the 18" curves. I guess a 2-10-2 might be okay on 22" curves at slow speeds, but I would not run it on curves smaller than 24".
I can't imagine what makes the clunk on the BLI Northern 4-8-4 from the AT&SF. BTW, I have seen the real thing at Kingman, AZ, and the thing is impressive.
Yeah I meant I saw the Bachman 2-10-2 with the Southern name on it.
Here is the info:
USRA light 2-10-2Southern #5216 Bachmann Trains sounds off with an extensive line of DCC Sound-equipped Spectrum® locomotives. Product Code: 83802
How about this one? Have you heard the sound on this model? It is more expensive then the ATSF 4-8-4. Also not sure if it is plastic or not. The blueline is diecast. So will the ATSF run on 22"? It seems to have a mixed result. Not sure what to do?
The Russian is Product Code: 84302 and comes as a Sante Fe or Western Maryland.
They both look neat but need to know more on the bachmann stuff. I do not know one who owns one but me.
Such decisions........
Hmmm...it would be news to me that the BLI Blueline 4-8-4 is diecast, except for the frame. I'm pretty sure it is a plastic boiler and cab. Same for the Bachmann...I would think?
The Bachmann Spectrum line of steamers are generally very good, and I recall that there is a lifetime warranty on them. If it ever craps out while you are the original owner, you should be able to get a replacement...if they're in stock. (Not sure of the details because I don't own a Spectrum engine)
Blueline engines are essentially Paragon quality, including the detailing. The only BLI metal engine was their Platinum Pacific K4s from the PRR. I'd have to check the catalogue. The one difference I have read about between Blueline and Paragon is that the number boards are not lit in the former...to keep costs down.
I had thought that P2K from Walthers also had a Santa Fe type 2-10-2. It would be costly, but beautiful. Haven't heard much about its pulling power, but many complain about the p2K engines being light pullers.
GTX765 wrote: I have a bigboy and the Yb-6, the engines that are scary are the MTH GS-4 which I returned due to damages when it was shipped. I guess I need to stay away from the large drivers style engines. My layout has gotten larger and I like large steam. I am trying to find another steamer that I can run that is not dink and is not huge. The MTH GS-4 is very picky about my track work. More than any other engine. I assumed the ATSF 4-8-4 would be too. I will see if I can make 24" work with flex track but need time to do so. My main will be 24" and in inside line will be 22". Right now the 22" is on the table and it seems to run my engines nicely. I just see alot of ATSF 4-8-4 for sale and thought soon they will drop the price and i will grab one. I just have read forums and people say its clunky on the turns and thumps into the turns. I could not really imagine this so I wanted to ask on who has one. My 22" turns are nice and flat not sure my layout will handle a incline at this time. I do enjoy this discussion. My issues with Bachman, I bought one the other day. Its like a 0-8-0 or something like that. The sound setting is turned all the way up and its so quiet you cannot hear it over the other steamers. Very quite and not what i wanted. If the 2-10-2 is a bit louder than I will try one. I like the southern 2-10-2 but was afraid of a decapod not working on my radius.
Bachmann does not have an 0-8-0 with sound, perhaps you were looking at a Proto Heritage 0-8-0?