With the great luck I have had with the Con-Cor 72 foot smooth side passenger cars I have got hooked on passenger services. I now know there was no smooth side Santa Fe Valley Flyer's but love the look and after a Little work they track great! Plus how many people can claim they have 10 passenger cars all bought new, added Kadee Couplers and weight for $175.00.
While I was looking in the Walther's catalog I came across this!
With me working in Alton IL and knowing a little about the Rail Road History of Alton it was a must have. I picked it up yesterday from K-10 Model Trains in Maryville IL (OK cheap plug for a great hobby shop) looked great in person! Plus for only $9.95 had separate gap irons and details I can add to the roof, plus underside has a lot of details.
Now for the problem, while it was still in the box I could tell the roof was bowed. I removed it from the box and roof came right off. I was thinking great roof is just not locked down! Hard part of up grading the Con-Cor cars is getting the roof off so I could add the needed weights. Get it home and found the locking taps will not hold the roof down.
I have two trains of thought.
Add weight and CV glue and clamp the roof on till dry. Rather find another way so I can work on the car if needed.
Remove the glass from the roof, cut and install side glass to the car. Then unwrap the roof and glue down with Testors glue. Problem is so far I have not figured out how the glass is held to the roof? I cannot see any taps or glue marks that hold the glass to the roof? Any ideas?
Next question, passenger cars use 36 inch wheels, right? Will PK 36 inch wheels work with IHC passenger cars trucks? In the box they have a parts list and states they have HO Scale 31 inch Metal Wheel sets for my IHC heavy weight passenger car?
Thanks to the coming answers.
Coach Head Ken Posting yet another question again!
I hate Rust
Ken,
To answer your last question, I've successfully used Intermountain 36" metal wheelsets on IHC heavyweights, without changing trucks. Adding weight and body couplers helped make them pretty smooth-rolling passenger cars, but they're lonnngggg.
I have two sets of IHC passenger cars, one of them being the Alton & Southern set with a matching steam engine.
Several things need to be done to IHC passenger cars to get them running well. First, I removed the roof/window casting, which is one piece. The bottoms of the cars have hollowed out areas to represent air conditioners and other appliances. I filled these with lead shot held in place with regular white glue. I let the glue set for a couple of days and then install interiors.
While they were still open I turned them upside down and changed to body mounted couplers using the Jay-Bee coupler mounting pads and Kadee couplers. I used Intermountain 36 inch wheelsets, which sometimes necessitated moving or removing the brake shoes cast onto the trucks.
In the hollow portion of the center sill, I glued 3 strips of solid solder held in place with hot melt glue.
I don't know what to advise you about the warped roof because none of mine have had that problem. I don't see how the roof could warp because it and the windows are one solid casting of clear plastic. Perhaps you should telephone IHC and ask them if they have any spare roof castings.
I had a warped roof on 2 of the IHC cars. I cut the glass off of the roof with a saw blade on a dremel. I replaced the glass with clear .005 styrene glued to the sides. I then made a rectangular frame that tightly fit the inside of the car , similar to the original glass . I then glued the roof to the frame and clamped it down while it dried. I had no trouble with 36 inch wheels on most of the cars. On a couple I put in the wheel sets with bearings to reduce drage. I was then able to pull a 14 car train of these up a %2.25 grade with a brass 4-8-4 weighted with a bit of templo.
Ken--
I have an IHC set that I kinda/sorta turned into a rather weird replica of the post WWII "City of San Francisco", and what I did was rout out the trucks slightly to accept Intermountain 36" wheels, then put some thin sheet lead (available at most LHS, BTW) flat on the floors (which gives you enough room if you want to put in interiors), change out the IHC couplers to McHenry's. They roll very well, weigh about what I want, and the 10-car train works very well behind my BLI COSF E-6's. It ain't the "City", but it will do until I can find a car set that isn't brass and costs over four thousand dollars. They're good cars, they need weight, new wheels, new couplers and a little TLC.
They don't look like anybody ELSE'S cars, but they can do the trick with a little work.
Tom
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
FIRST OFF, ConCor PASSENGER CARS were better made than Rivarossi and ex-Rivarossi's Importer IHC. Better paint and some even came with 36" metal wheels
Replacing Wheels and Couplers is relativley simple. IHC's need trucks, couplers, and weights. That is work, and they aren't so cheap to bring up to NMRA. Dare I say the word 'Cheesy'?
Newbies think they're getting a deal, with an 85' passenger car for $7.99, but what they are getting is a car worth about $4, with 32" wheels that won't stay on a 4X8's 22" curves.
The IHC cars are cheap. Do not confuse that term with "inexpensive". But there is a market for "cheap". That is that market at which they are aimed. They have compromised on details and accuracy to allow one car to be used for any RR with only different paint. They put the couplers on the trucks because that allows them to be used on the very common 18" radius curves. Truck mounted couplers can be used on MUCH sharper curves than the prototypically more accurate body mounted couplers.
If your desire is prototypical accuracy and you have room for gentler curves, they are not for you. If price is your priority, give them a look.
The cost of bringing them up to the standards many of us seek exceeds the cost of just buying a better made car in the first place. However, those standards are not important to everyone.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
I'd agree that if you can avoid IHC cars please do so. However there is the once in a while occurrence when they happen to offer a body style that no one else does and with a little work turns out to be just what you've been looking for.
You might want to read through this post (sorry about some of the missing photos, deleted them long ago) about my use of an IHC car for my Santa Fe El Capitan.
What I would suggest for any IHC car is to replace the trucks entirely. Train Station Products trucks (TSP) are what I used for my IHC car and it runs beautifully. I'm also using 36 wheels by Intermountain or Jay-Bee, not sure exactly which brand. I wanted "talgo" trucks due to a tight curve on my layout, so I didn't buy any body mounting coupler adapter and just used the truck mounted coupler post on the TSP trucks.
Another thing you might want to look into are the special weights made just for IHC cars. I purchased a set made for the car I had, here's a link. The set consists of small flat weights that you glue to the floor. There are also larger weights that you glue into the open tanks as well. What is nice about these weights is the impressive weight they give the car, and that since they are flat you can still install an interior without any troubles. Here's a link to the Walthers page with the multiple weights offered for IHC cars. Almost the same price of an IHC car, but incredibly simple to install (took just a few minutes) and I think well worth the price for the added weight and much improved tracking due to the weight.
So even "prototype modelers" can use IHC cars if they want to. But to get them to track well requires new trucks and weights.
If you are interested, I could retake some photos of the IHC car I upgraded and post them here.
Matt from Anaheim, CA and Bayfield, COClick Here for my model train photo website
loathar wrote:Don Gibson- 31" wheels. (believe it or not) They actually do run pretty good on 18" curves.(note-I said RUN. Not LOOK good on 18's)
If the wheel flanged are deep enough, Plastic wheels should navigate ANY radius curve. When aligned in 4's or 6's they become 'fussy'. MOST IHC cars require much additional weight to just stay on the track. YOURS, I cannot speak to.
I would rather recommend Athearn, Rivarossi, & ConCor, if one passes the opportunity to buy something better.
cudaken:
passenger cars use 36 inch wheels, right? Will PK 36 inch wheels work with IHC passenger cars trucks? In the box they have a parts list and states they have HO Scale 31 inch Metal Wheel sets for my IHC heavy weight passenger car?
PK2000 36" wheels will raise the car slightly. IHC wheels are 31.5" Problem is they use different truck sideframes - sometimes NMRA, sometimes NEM. Good alternative is IHC's metal trucks. (unsprung weight). I use with both Rivarossi & ConCor.
I vote for GLUE & CLAMPING 'till dry.
Cacole, could you post some pic of the Alton & Southern set you have?
Thanks for all the answers and links to parts. Any pictures of up coming up grades would be helpful as well.
Guess buying a IHC passenger is like buying a cheap real car and making a HP car out of it. Starters out cheap but can become a money pit like the Charger in my logo. But, on the other hand, I could not spend at one time what it took to make the Charger into the car it is today.
OK, not on the same scale, I could afford a $50.00 passenger car, but except UP there is no other lines at this time I am interested besides the Alton Limited.
Does anyone else make a Alton Limited car before I get to deep?
Cuda Ken
The only other Alton Limited passenger car set that Google could find is from Lionel that costs $1,399. Quite a difference in price between that one and the IHC passenger cars.
I don't see how a picture is going to help you at all, because my set has to be the exact same one you have -- IHC made only one Alton Limited heavyweight set. The matching locomotive I have is an IHC Pacific loco that I have put a sound decoder into.
-Morgan
Cacole, I thought it was a different Rail Road, you are just using a different engine.
I bought my Alton Limited IHC passenger car set and matching Pacific locomotive at a train show in Tucson, Arizona several years ago for just over $100, including interiors for all of the cars. It must have been a special run to be a matching set. The dealer I bought it from lives here in Sierra Vista and had it for several years before taking it to the show to sell. The IHC locomotive had electrical pickups for the backup light in the tender so I was able to use them for the SoundTraxx DSX Sound-Only decoder and I put the TCS T-1 motor and headlight control decoder into the boiler. There was no need for any interconnecting wires this way. I have never seen any other IHC locomotive made this way.
Flashwave wrote:Okay, so once again I'm the oddball. I have a set of 4 IHCs I'm using for Presidential Train. The cars were adorned with seals from the Microscale replacemnts for the SF Bicenntenial locos, given interiors with people, and the wheels were changed out. I need to check with what, I think with 36" They track beautifully on the Club Layout. The benefit is that I'm not basing off a true prototype. I should have some pics of them, but nothing with video
No, your not. Mine run fine too. I will say the next ones I get are going to be the Bachmanns. Better detail, metal wheels, knuckle couplers, interiors and lighting kits for only $20.
cudaken wrote: Cacole, I thought it was a different Rail Road, you are just using a different engine. Cuda Ken
I did too Ken...Alton & Southern was a freight RR as far as I know.
Rotor
Jake: How often does the train go by? Elwood: So often you won't even notice ...
cacole wrote: I bought my Alton Limited IHC passenger car set and matching Pacific locomotive at a train show in Tucson, Arizona several years ago for just over $100, including interiors for all of the cars. It must have been a special run to be a matching set. The dealer I bought it from lives here in Sierra Vista and had it for several years before taking it to the show to sell. The IHC locomotive had electrical pickups for the backup light in the tender so I was able to use them for the SoundTraxx DSX Sound-Only decoder and I put the TCS T-1 motor and headlight control decoder into the boiler. There was no need for any interconnecting wires this way. I have never seen any other IHC locomotive made this way.
I have the same set and loco. The Kid also has an IHC loco in Daylight that has the same setup. I also added the tender chassis and pickups to my Tyco Chattanooga Mikado.
Say somethig 'good' about IHC passeger cars:
HOWS THIS? "They come with paint jobs no one else has".
Well it just happens last night I pulled out one of my IHC passenger cars I hadn't looked at in a while (I moved a few years ago and currently just have a switching layout, won't be running passenger trains again for a while) and it's not all that bad. Separate (though chunky) grab irons, nice interiors. I've one or two I've had to work with so they don't wobble etc. but I accept a little 'fine tuning' as being normal.
BTW, this comes up a lot but IHC is not Rivarossi. Rivarossi used to make cars for AHM, but IHC cars aren't the same as Rivarossi.
Got the Alton Limited Heavy weight on the rails today. I added weight to the underside of the car in the frame, and in the car to get it to 6.75 onces. I made mounting pads for Kadee pockets and installed .505 center shank couplers. Had good luck on the coupler height first try. Pulled the car with a BLI Heavy Mike. Car rolled very well with the trucks being untouched with stock wheel set. Made it thought 5 turnouts and around the last 18 inch turn with out a hitch. It was to the last left 22 inch turn before it made a complete loop and derailed. Tried 3 times and derailed every time. Pulled the center set of wheels and now track fine. Need to check the turn for a high spot, but all my 6 wheel truck engines are fine with it.
Couple of questions about a few problems.
First the car shakes side to side badly at times, passenger will get sea sick. Should I mount the trucks with a screw and nut? Or is there a better way to mount the push pin? Maybe add a washer under the truck?
Second, I would like to have all the wheels on the car and still make it around the turn it does not like. Would a better wheel set help this problem?
Third, if I up grade to a better IHC truck, will it have a better mounting system than a push pin?
Hope to have the next car this Thursday, that will be the real test. If they will track around the 18 inch turn with a Kadee .505 shank coupler I will then try a number 5 coupler. (way I mounted the pad under the diagram there will be a big gap with the second car). If I get them not to rock and roll I will make the jump on the full 8 car set.
Thnaks to all the great and detail answers so far.
I have a few of those IHC heavyweights.
I did not replace the trucks, but I did replace the wheels. The plastic IHC wheels slide on the axels and I had several that were out of guage. Attempts to fix them resulted in wheels that wobble on the axel. When they are even a little bit out of guage, the flanges hit and ride up on frogs.
Replacing the wheels cured all the derail problems.
I tried a couple of things to fix the wobble of the cars. The train looked like a family of ducks going down the track. The solution that worked for me was to put a flat washer between the truck and the car.
I long ago decided that buying a cheap car then having to replace the couplers and wheels cost more than just buying a better build car to start with.
"First the car shakes side to side badly at times, passenger will get sea sick. Should I mount the trucks with a screw and nut? Or is there a better way to mount the push pin? Maybe add a washer under the truck?
I use #6 sheet metal screws - being extra cafeful to insert them @ 90 o perpendicularly. Eye balling is a must. 'Wobble' can be cured by tightening one one screw and loosening the other, assuming a wheel is not causing it.
See below.
if a single switch is having the problem, there is an incompatibility factor, and you'll have to dig deeper. Replacing the trucks with IHC's changes the dynamics, but not the push pin's. lack of adjustment (see 'wobble' above).
Hope to have the next car this Thursday, that will be the real test. If they will track around the 18 inch turn with a Kadee .505 shank coupler I will then try a number 5 coupler. (way I mounted the pad under the diagram there will be a big gap with the second car). If I get them not to rock and roll I will make the jump on the full 8 car set. - Cuda Ken
CK: (1) IHC cars are so poorly made they need many things: New trucks, Body mounted couplers, weight, push pin replacement, etc. WITH 18"R I would prefer Kadee #38 since it is longer, and has two mounting heights - as that may be causing your derailing problem.
If you need to go around 18 inch curves I would stay with the truck mounted couplers. That is why IHC uses them. It's tough to get a body mounted knuckle on a car that long around a turn that sharp.
I know they are not as good quality, but McHenry makes a coupler that will snap right into the truck in place of the IHC horn hook.
Phoebe Vet wrote: If you need to go around 18 inch curves I would stay with the truck mounted couplers. That is why IHC uses them. It's tough to get a body mounted knuckle on a car that long around a turn that sharp.I know they are not as good quality, but McHenry makes a coupler that will snap right into the truck in place of the IHC horn hook.
I tried those McHenrey conversions and hated them. They droop real bad. The KD truck mounted conversion is definitely the way to go.Another thing I noticed when I had my trucks apart is two of them were warped slightly. I removed the wheels and laid them on a flat surface and they rocked pretty bad. A little twisting and tweaking flattened them back out and they work fine now.
I agree wholeheartedly that the McHenrys are substandard. I only mentioned them because they are cheap and easy.
All my trucks were fine. It was the wheels themselves that were out of guage and wobbly so I replaced them. I cured the car wobble by placing a flat washer between the car and the truck. I also added weight. I initially changed to the McHenry Couplers. I have reconverted one car so far to the Kadee 505.
I won't be buying any more of those cars.