How many threads, posted by modelers of all ages and levels of experience, start off with, "Where can I buy (fillintheblank)?" - (fillintheblank) being anything from grab irons to a fully operational 'turnkey' model empire? Every time, I am careful NOT to be among the first to reply?
Why? Because, in many cases, my 'off the top of my head' answer has been, "Grab (some part, tool or material in easy arm's reach of where I'm pounding this keyboard) and MAKE the silly thing!"
Then reality rears its ugly head. Where do people who have seen very few scratchbuilding articles, have never had reason to develop the needed skills and don't have well-filled tool boxes, materials racks and containers of useful junk get the opportunity to learn? How many of them would run into family-member conflict the moment they opened something that smelled less pleasant than roses? I certainly didn't pop out of the egg knowing what to eat, what to flee and how to fabricate a complete steam locomotive that would be mechanically sound even though it has no known prototype.
Thanks to not dying at a younger age, I have lived long enough to develop skills and accumulate 'goodies.' Sometimes it's difficult to remember that others have life experiences far different from mine. It isn't likely that any two of us have skills, interests and 'external conditions' that are a 100% match - which is good. If the others here hadn't been generous with their knowledge, some of my present crop of standard techniques would never have sprouted.
So I will continue to check almost every thread, contribute where I can and enjoy the interplay of ideas - and I will never criticize someone who wants to buy a commercial product that I can duplicate with a few minutes' effort and a nickel's worth of materials.
Thanks for hearing (reading) me out.
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Tomakawa,
I couldn't agree with you more!
I've observed that "instant gratification" is the name of the game in so many areas, and many of the younger folks (20s to 40s) are just not interested in building or repairing stuff for "fun".
Ha, as a kid in Chicago in the '50s, we would shovel snow for folks and as soon as we had enough money we would run to the hobby shop and get a model plane or boat and spend the rest of the day working on them. How much we learned doing that, including that we had to work to get the money to buy fun stuff. Sadly, I know of NO kids today that build models.
You know, I often wonder if computer games were available in the '50s if we would have taken up with them and scorned model building and the like.
Mobilman44
ENJOY !
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
Sawyer Berry
Clemson University c/o 2018
Building a protolanced industrial park layout
How much, I wonder, is just the "Fear Factor?" 3 years ago I bought a craftsman kit, and I have finally worked up the nerve to start it. I was afraid I'd mess it up, or I would get it all together and be really disappointed that it didn't look as good as I'd hoped. Now, though, I've started it, the model is looking pretty good so far. And, I'm having fun. Once I got past the first couple of steps, and the model started to take shape, I realized that I could do a good job of this kit.
Have you ever had the "ready-to-run blues?" That's when you get a great RTR model, get it home, put it on your layout, run it around and then...well, "Now what?" Yeah, maybe you'll get some pride of ownership when you show it to someone else, but basically, that's it. Compare that feeling to the hours, days or weeks it takes to build a model that's a bit more of an effort. Think of the challenges, the mental exercise of figuring out what the heck those directions are trying to tell you. Those memories will be with you again every time you see that car go by, or pass your eyes over that structure as the train passes it.
Try it. Take a risk. Don't any of you sit on your fingers, because if you're scratchbuilding or kitbuilding, you're likely to glue those fingers to your behind with CA.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Chuck, in a way, I'm agreeing with you. I started to see the "instant gratification" issue rear it's head in the late 1980s in HO scale.
Want a GP-40-2? Atheran!
Want an RS-3? Roundhouse!
I answered that call, by switching to O scale.
I felt the need to feel like I built something, from parts, or recently from scratch, that didn't look like everything else that everybody had. Yes, I'll go out and plunk down a few C notes on an Atlas GP-15T, since I don't always have the time to kitbash one from a Weaver GP-38, but in structures, and in some rolling stock, I'll take the time to bash-up something.
Yes, lately I'm an oddball.
I've also began to feed the need for those elusive scratchbuild and kitbash articles that are being bemoaned for their lack. I'm writing them. So far, I've had two accepted by OST, and am working on a third.
Looking at the beautiful layout features in OST, RMC, Model Railroader and the like are inspiring, however, take the recent feature on Rod Stewart's layout. There was the sum total of YEARS of work, placed on public display. The time aspect seemed played down, over the finsihed product (just an observation) as a way of getting the layout seen.
Personally, I've always subscribed to the "A layout is never finished" concept. I've built three layouts, one in HO, one in N, and the latest in O scale. (I don't really count the Lionel "layout" that I ran for a few years, as it was the Plywood Pacific and 3 Rail wonderland)
There are always going to be some who want to RTR everything. There will always be those who will take time to build their own. It's a long road, but eventually the "where can I buy" will turn into the "now, where did I see plans for..." modeller.
mobilman44 wrote: Sadly, I know of NO kids today that build models.You know, I often wonder if computer games were available in the '50s if we would have taken up with them and scorned model building and the like.
Sadly, I know of NO kids today that build models.
I started building models arround age 10. Still have some of my first ones, including a serverly battle-damaged USS Yorktown (not historicaly prototypical damage, damage from assembly, weathered to look real). While not technically a kid anymore, given the average age of the hobby I suppose I might still fall in that catagory. (I'm 25) I spent all day yesterday playing computer games... and all day today working on 4 models: A CH-47 Chinook, an EH-101/CH-149 Cormorant, an HH-3 Pelican, and an A-1 Skyrader. After 15 years of straing building and a few kitbashes along the way, the EH-101 I've been working on for the last week or so has my first scratchbuilt material in it: a SAR operator's instrument/video screen bench. Made out of balsa wood, it's a VERY humble start. From here, to my next planned project of making cribbing and chains for a scratch/kitbash of putting a wrecked locomotive on cribbing on a flat car for shipment to the shops, to who knows what I'll be doing in the next 15 years...
(oh yea, and I work on model RRs as well. after 17 years in the hobby I should START the scenery my first scenic'd layout later this year... we all gotta start somewhere)
Forgive me for being capt. obvious (my alter-ego ), but I agree w/ tsgtbob on his last comment. If your starting out, RTR is great. If you're a real modeler, then you'll turn into the "Where are those plans?" Of course, if you are content w/ RTR and assembled structure, then that's your perspective. I quote here from John Allen's last letter to the NMRA Bulletin
This doesn't mean the cliche quoted above isn't valid. Of course you should pursue a hobby as you see fit and no one has a right to degrade your results, unless you are working on a common enterprise with others. A hobby is for the satisfaction and enjoyment one receives, and if you get your kicks out of crude or silly modeling, it only concerns yourself. No one has a valid argument on how you choose to use your spare time provided you don't harm or damage the efforts of someone else. Our models and layouts are not in competition and should take the form that interests us alone.
So, the point I try to convey w/ that lengthy quote, is what it says. You have no right to degrade anyone's work unl;ess they A) ask your opinion, or B) You and they are working on a common project. And here's my first scratch-build (tape, paper, and cardboard from cracker boxes) Have a good laugh, please.
I think I still have that somewhere.
Packers1 wrote:Trust me: I suck at scratchbuilding and have pretty much no tools to aid in doing it. But I have created some insane looking "diesels" (they don't run) with some frieght cars that won't be running/don't fit my era and the shells from some busted locos. I to your superior modeling skills, I'd probably fail if I tried to make a working steam loco.
You're a perfect example of today's "I want it now" society: If you can't do it right, right this second, then you "suck" at it.
It takes practice and learning to get good at anything, even video games.
You are a teenager, according to your sig block. That means you have plenty of time to develop skills and accumulate the tools you need to build anything.
Can you imagine Brett Favre starting out, when he was unable to complete a pass, saying, "I suck at this, I'll do something else?"
tomikawaTT wrote: How many threads, posted by modelers of all ages and levels of experience, start off with, "Where can I buy (fillintheblank)?" - (fillintheblank) being anything from grab irons to a fully operational 'turnkey' model empire? Every time, I am careful NOT to be among the first to reply?Why? Because, in many cases, my 'off the top of my head' answer has been, "Grab (some part, tool or material in easy arm's reach of where I'm pounding this keyboard) and MAKE the silly thing!"
While we are on the subject, the older I get, the less I want to rely on a manufacturer to make things for me. They go out of business; or they stop producing the thing I want.
There was a time when I treated model railroading supplies like they'd be around forever, like when you go to the grocery story for food--but now, I don't feel comfortable building anything that takes a proprietary part, like a DA or DW headlight, because they could stop selling them at any time.
Yo, Packers#1,
I think the prototype for that is in Texas, along the roadbed that once supported the Milwaukee Road east of Amarillo...
Happily for all concerned, my earliest scratchbuilding projects have long since been consigned to the dumpster of history. I recall a carefully built, board-by-board floored flat car that was reduced to a pile of toothpicks by its first encounter with the pull of a locomotive.
Part of the reluctance to scratchbuild is the pervasive idea that we are never supposed to fail. The late G. Harry Stine, an old school engineer, blamed the endless studies and 'paralysis by analysis' endemic to government projects on a culture clash between old-line engineers and the people who held a microscope to their work. The engineers wanted to build/test/fix, and felt that the design wasn't valid until there were a few broken prototypes to study. The politicians and media pundits (most of whom don't know which end of a torque wrench goes on the nut) consider ANY failure, no matter how minor, to be waste of taxpayer money - and are quick to trumpet same from the rooftops. Is it a surprise that the same attitude has filtered through most of present-day society?
So, my message? DON'T be afraid to start something because you might not achieve perfection first start out of the blocks. DO learn from your mistakes, but don't be afraid to make some. I hand-lay specialwork (and have hand-laid track, four spikes to the HOj tie.) When a certain part turns out to be less than perfect, I rework it. If reworking won't salvage it, I consign it to the scrap car and start again with a new piece of rail. I won't settle for less than the best I can do - after reworking, adjusting and tweaking everything into place.
davidmbedard wrote: Trust me: I suck at scratchbuilding and have pretty much no tools to aid in doing it. But I have created some insane looking "diesels" (they don't run) with some frieght cars that won't be running/don't fit my era and the shells from some busted locos. I to your superior modeling skills, I'd probably fail if I tried to make a working steam loco.Sorry to pick on Packer#1 (I can never trust anyone who starts his aurgument with "trust me"), but he opitimizes the modelrailroaders of today. Saying things like "I suck at scratchbuilding" translate to me as "I dont have the ability, so I wont try more than once". And saying "I'd probably fail if I tried to make a working steam loco" translates into "it looks too hard, so I wont try" . What would have happened if the founders of our fair countries had the same attitude? We wouldnt be where we are today. I just seems to me that it is easier to say you 'cant' do something than to try and learn how to do that 'something'.I for one am a scratchbuilder. I have failed many, many times, and I still do to this day. That being said, I have learned from experience. So much so, that I make a partial living at installing/programming decoders (failed many a times at that as well) and painting for customers (again, failed sometimes at that). I am not exceptional in any way, nor do I think I do good work (we are our own worst critic). Experience and confidence comes from trying. Nothing is gained by just passing on experience. David B
Trust me: I suck at scratchbuilding and have pretty much no tools to aid in doing it. But I have created some insane looking "diesels" (they don't run) with some frieght cars that won't be running/don't fit my era and the shells from some busted locos. I to your superior modeling skills, I'd probably fail if I tried to make a working steam loco.
Sorry to pick on Packer#1 (I can never trust anyone who starts his aurgument with "trust me"), but he opitimizes the modelrailroaders of today. Saying things like "I suck at scratchbuilding" translate to me as "I dont have the ability, so I wont try more than once". And saying "I'd probably fail if I tried to make a working steam loco" translates into "it looks too hard, so I wont try" . What would have happened if the founders of our fair countries had the same attitude? We wouldnt be where we are today.
I just seems to me that it is easier to say you 'cant' do something than to try and learn how to do that 'something'.
I for one am a scratchbuilder. I have failed many, many times, and I still do to this day. That being said, I have learned from experience. So much so, that I make a partial living at installing/programming decoders (failed many a times at that as well) and painting for customers (again, failed sometimes at that). I am not exceptional in any way, nor do I think I do good work (we are our own worst critic). Experience and confidence comes from trying. Nothing is gained by just passing on experience.
David B
David B, besides having great taste in first names, makes an excellent point. Nearly every one of us (save for the occasional prodigy) who has completed an advanced modeling project has, at some time, screwed up badly. I've wrecked whole locomotives trying to turn them into something else. Why? Because I don't accept that I can't have a certain model just because it's not available from a hobby shop.
And neither should you. There are way too many trains for every one to be produced in plastic; so why limit yourself to just what you can buy? And if you mess one up, so what? Learn from it and try again. If you play sports, you know this is true; sometimes you learn more about yourself and the game by losing than you do by winning.
There are still things in this hobby I "suck" at, but I refuse to believe I will always "suck" at them. Trust me when I say it's much more fun to be a model railroader when you have the skills to handle most of the contingencies that pop up, from a loco that fails to a kink in the track to a much desired freight car that's not made by anyone commercially. And being able to make your own detail parts or structures saves you big time hobby money!!!
This isn't about old hands trying to make newbies feel small and inferior. It's exactly the opposite. It's about reassuring you the every modeler once "sucked," and that this stuff isn't rocket science! Anyone can do it. Like everything else, it just takes practice. I don't think anything in model railroading is hard per se, just that many tasks require lots of practice and extra care. Those tasks at which I still "suck" are those which I just need to practice more. Same with you. I know some folks have legitimate physical and mental handicaps that may limit what they can do, but most of us are limited only by our patience.
Don't let the manufacturers dictate what you can and can't have. They're here to provide you the raw materials for a model railroad; how you refine them is up to YOU.
Modeling the Rio Grande Southern First District circa 1938-1946 in HOn3.
Chuck: I am one of those who had returned to the hobby with great expectations of myself [my spouse even gave me a whole half of the basement of my newly built house as "my train room"] and my new layout was formulating in my mind and I was getting ready to jump in - feet first with a purchase of a basic DCC controller and all. I even had some track plans beginning to work out - when alas, a fall on some ice badly injured a leg and I was 'persona non grata' to the basement stairs for about 4 months. Boy did I want to go down there but re-injury was a great fear! Oh well, reading Model Railroader gave great pleasure.
So what did I do? I began to read all the threads and glean from them what I could and asked a few questions around but was reluctant to post the "where can I " posts for the very reasons that those of you, and I think you would probably be included, have been there for a while and with superior knowledge and skills gained from your experience, would probably crack a smile or two [of frustration maybe] at my ignorance on being the beginner/newbie/"one of those new guys". Don't take that as a criticism, as it is not meant to be, but an observation from reading a lot of posts and seeing terminology thrown out that, frankly, I have no idea of which you speak and I daresay many others may be in the same predicament and are afraid to speak up. I am learning and trying. I was once told 'don't ask a stupid question'. I learned from that that there are no stupid questions, just people trying to learn by asking a question from ignorance.
So as the leg heals, the layout gets closer to reality. Dreams are a wonderful thing. But this DCC electronic technology kinda scares me a bit - so I may have to post a few "how do I ...?" questions on that - and the whole idea of soldering is going to be new to me - so I will explore and keep trying. I expect a few curses and trials as I melt plastic rail and the elctricity does not flow.....
So to make a long story longer when I have gone on far too long, I applaud the fact that you stated your mind - honesty is always welcome - but you also will continue to observe and comment where needed, especially to us that are new or rejoining the hobby again.
I hope to hear from you on any post I may make with your guidance [and that of any other more experienced in the hobby] always being welcomed and cherished. I have far to go, but one day maybe I too will be "the wise experienced one" who is offering a helping hand.
And in reference to other posts, I am middle-aged and was an avid plastic model builder until child-rearing took over for many years [I still have boxes of kits unbuilt but waiting] so have some of those skills for "scratching together" what may be needed. Funny how the kids seem to eat up the time you have for those other thing syou want to do. But university is important to them now and one is done and the other halfway there.
Now how do I use a soldering gun?????
But if I am a more experienced modeler, do I not have an obligation to give you some helpful hints I learned alont the way?
I too have many (literally) cereal box bulidings as standins until I can kit bash the real ones. Here's a hint Every time MR prints plans for a building photocopy the plans and then cut the windows out of the plans to glue on your card board models. Everytime you buy a building photocopy the wall pieces. Even if you don't kitbash that building you can use the photcpies to play around "kitbashing" them.
My suggestion to you is to buy some 1/8 or 1/4 in balsa to use as stiffeners in the walls of your buildings. Get a steel scale rule and a #11 blade hobby knife and use that to cut the walls of your buildings. It will be easier to get straight walls and scale sizes. Use balsa wood or layers of cardboard to build up window sills and trim to give depth to your models.
If you take my advice negatively, I'm sorry. if you take it positively then your next building will be better than your first and your next better than that.
Dave H.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
dehusman wrote: Every time MR prints plans for a building photocopy the plans and then cut the windows out of the plans to glue on your card board models.
Every time MR prints plans for a building photocopy the plans and then cut the windows out of the plans to glue on your card board models.
Now, if you want to locate back issues, that's where you'll find the drawings.
TT 'Cholly':
WE started out playing with TOYS. Some of us stiill do.
There are 'Craftsman' kits for the 'Craftsmen' among us, and RTR. Guess what sells? Even Ebay classifies our $400 locomotives as "TOYS". Go look.
If the computer generation can't find a hobby store to buy a Magazine, we aren't on TV much. Too bad. Help is there but one must look to find. Some do, some don't.
Maybe it's called "Motivation".
So solly,
You know, I don't see anything in the above post that says that Packers WON'T scratchbuild, all I see is someone who says right now that he 'sucks' at it. Heck, I 'sucked' at it when I started, we ALL did, admit it. And anyone who thinks that they sprang full-blown into this hobby with all the craftsmanship skills necessary to turn out an Award-winning model on the first try is either putting themselves on or is the ULTIMATE Egotist.
It's like learning a new piece of music--sounds like CRAP the first time you sight-read it, but after you start practicing it, it all comes together. But it takes time and work, and after a while, the next piece of music you tackle might just start to come easier from the techniques you learned working on that first piece. I sure don't get the idea that Packers said "I suck at this, so forget it."
We all start somewhere.
Tom
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
Packers #1, scratchbuilding isn't as hard as you think. Here's a tip for you. On your next trip to the LHS pick up some styrene sheet and strip. Get some liquid styrene cement (I usually use Plastruct Plastic Weld) and build a small shed or other simple structure.
The most important things in scratchbuilding are straight cuts and acurrate measurements, so use a ruler. Small amounts of sloppiness can be taken care of with sandpaper. After you have the structure built any gaps can be filled with white putty and painted over.
And remember, if it doesn't turn out like you plan find out what went wrong and don't repeat your mistakes. The best way to learn things is to try them.
On the RTR vs. Scratchbuild debate, I model aa specific prototype so if a car I need is made RTR or kit for a reasonable price I buy it, if not, out with the styrene and razor saw!
This is a great thread. And Chuck started it off so admirably. I've been in and out of model railroading throughout my life. But it was always with Ready To Run stuff. TT scale existed when I was a kid, but I never even heard of it. Getting back into the hobby in recent years I shifted to N scale because most of my HO was lost of given away at some point, and the space in my home isn't conducive to turns with a minimum radius of 15 inches. And no, I don't care for shelf-style switching layouts, thank you.
Ironically, when I started writing for About.com I knew that I had to report objectively on all scales and other aspects of the hobby I was unfamiliar with. In the course of my research I discovered TT scale. I saw an inexpensive TT starter set on eBay and decided the price was so good I had nothing to lose. I got hooked on the scale.
Now if you're a younger American modeler you may well have never even heard of TT scale. It's 1:120... between HO and N scale. It was invented in the U.S. in the 1940s, but all the TT scale manufacturers made kits. There was no Ready To Run TT made in America. So N scale pushed it out of the American market in the late 1960s. Ironically it caught on in the Soviet Union, they made Ready To Run TT products, and that's where nearly all TT scale products come from today. Even in popular scales it seems that every month or so there's another forum post of an accessory builder that went out of business. The moral is, if you focus your model railroad business on kit builders/bashers instead of Ready To Run, you probably won't have a business for long.
I have the greatest admiration for kitbashers and scratchbuilders. I love reading their posts and seeing their photos on the forums. But I have to agree, they are a rare breed in todays model railroading.
Hi Chuck!
Thank you for biting your tongue and sitting on your fingers!
There seems to be a rash of "political" threads going here of late. Perhaps this is another?
Having returned to this hobby two years ago, and then joining this new-to-me forum, here are "some observations from the hill" if you will:
1)It's a hobby, not a job or government work! Each will enjoy it his/her way.There is no right or wrong way to enjoy a hobby. Each hobby has many facets that appeal to the masses differently.
2)Older more experienced modelers seem quick to slash a newbee to shreds over a (tiny) detail. Some will even pick and stab at someone for a misspelling or (obvious) typo. They happen. Get over it. Even Dr. Dave Vollmer was picked on recently about such in a thread.
3) It may be true that the newbee may be only looking for accolades, and fail to accept legitimate criticism, but encouragement is a must. They will fail to succeed if they only receive criticism issued with a "it's my way or the highway" attitude! It is human nature to retaliate or retreat when struck down.
4)Details are particular to each person.There are rivet counters and not rivet counters. Some painting artists will fill in every detail, others will let the eye "fill in" the rest of the detail.Even Hollywood expert professionals know what details to put in, what to simulate, and what can be left out.
5) I have seen some more experienced modelers seemingly argue amongst each other as to which way is the way to model, or how to do it. They can't seem to agree amongst themselves, so how is a newbee to interpret that? (again that "my way or..." attitude).
6)Unless one has unlimited space in which to model, virtually all "model" railroads are only simulations,representations of, or truncated versions-at best-of the real thing, no matter how "exacting" (rivet counting) one may be.
7)Each time someone posts a question, The only thing they are looking for is answers, and that is all that is important to them. There IS a search function, some may forget it's there, some may not know how to use it, some may not know what key word/s to type in. The search function may not find them the answers they seek. Example: I just tried to use the search function to find my posting to another thread to copy some of my own words into this post, but could not find what I was looking for.
8)There may not be any "new" questions...but there will be new askers of questions. Ever hear the phrase Everything that's old is new again?
9)I think the longer that someone is in the hobby, the more they will develop naturally into a "real model railroader" if there is such a thing. They will want more out of the hobby. I know I am. I find myself starting to count rivets
10)Some of my youthfull/teenage attempts at the hobby in O and N scale look atrocious today. Crooked cuts on structures, bad paint jobs etc plagued those attempts at scratch building or kitbashing. As my father recently said in regards to my old handiwork " well, you have to look at your age at the time, your skills as they were, and what you had to work with". I may be older, Am I any better now? I think so. Some of my recent attempts at kits/kitbashing/modifying/rebuilding still lack some "umph" too. I will improve as I grow.
11) Whomever (??) decided the hobby is only for those who can scratch build a loco out of a tin can, bale wire, telephone cable, duct tape, a widget and a tape recorder motor? I cannot. I can fry an electronic item like an egg, short out a cactus plant, and cross-wire a haircut! My locos must be "ready to run"- DCC only please! I am far from being alone in this. Maybe in the future I will attempt to build a loco.
12) In the two years I have been on this forum, I am seeing the same type of questions come up, and the yada yada yadas on here. Even as new as I am, I can find it repetitively boring. Sometimes I want to pull what hair I have left out! But I realize that on the other end of that post is someone waiting with baited breath for an answer, be it/they as it/they may be!
We should welcome, encourage and gently guide and offer wisdom imparted to us, and learned by us to those who seek!
I submit this for perusal: A) what is the railroad to model? B) What is the time period to model? C) what is the way to weather a loco? D) What is the way build a structure? The answers to these questions and more are as varied as the people here!
Ok, I am off my now, and have put in my
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Just my thoughts, ideas, opinions and experiences. Others may vary.
HO and N Scale.
After long and careful thought, they have convinced me. I have come to the conclusion that they are right. The aliens did it.
Galaxy--
Gee, I think you're my new hero!
Howdy, Galaxy. (Milky Way Galaxy, I hope.)
To answer the four earth-shattering questions:
1. What is the railroad to model? Whichever one snaps YOUR cap. My choice, in my signature, is very unlikely to be yours.
2. What is the era/period to model? The one (or several) YOU want to. (Anyone here modeling the railroads of Ancient Greece?)
3. What is the best way to weather a locomotive? The one that works for YOU. (I do not recommend dropping it into the laundry tub with the dirty clothes, even though that worked in a long-ago Silver Plate Road cartoon in MR.)
4. What is the best way to assemble a building. The way that makes it easiest for YOU to produce a believable building. (If laying the roof upside down on the workbench and assembling things from the top down works for you, go for it.)
There are eight and forty ways of creating tribal lays, and every single one of them is right. Rudyard Kipling.
This above all, model railroading is fun.
Scratching and bashing was never hard for me--but then I spent some 20 years building the prototype and scaling down was easy. It's pretty much understanding the limitations of the fingers and the tools.
But the burden of scratchbuilding everything is heavy. I just don't have the spare time I had even a couple years ago. Every now and then I'd like to just buy something and get'r done. Most of what I'm looking for doesn't exist so I'm stuck.
I'd like some 1890's shake the box ore cars. No such thing. My choices for 1890's engines is MDC. My building choices are already built cheapies off ebay, or Campbell or Muir craftsman kits. Scratchbuilding is easier than craftsman.
My choice then has come down to maintaining quality and shrinking the layout or going bigger and buying place holders for someday. My basement project is now a 4 x 6.
Iain Rice said that your railroad project is always a balance of space/time/money. I used to have space and time with no money. Now I have space and money with no time.
Not having money is difficult. Not having time is impossible. I look for short-cuts.
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
Part of Tomikawa's opening statement
"How many threads, posted by modelers of all ages and levels of experience, start off with, "Where can I buy (fillintheblank)?" - (fillintheblank) being anything from grab irons to a fully operational 'turnkey' model empire? Every time, I am careful NOT to be among the first to reply?
Being in Australia and modelling N Scale North American is an interesting exercise in R-T-R and kit/scratchbuilding, I have a lot of R-T-R (which the N Scale market primarily is) and its funny that when a model is released, all the self proclaimed experts will come out and howl the manufacturer down for any errors 'supposedly' existing (this is in 'every' country's forums I subscribe to).
So, I want to kit bash something and need some info, I have asked on this forum for assistance in finding some photos of stepwell safety stickers for diesel locos to no avail, (I was advised to buy some, I make my own decals on an ALPS as part of my hobby "that should start the think tanks overflowing - not possible, they're crap!") but heaven help the manufacturer that brings a model out and these items are in the wrong place, the knowledge and opinions (and probably photographic examples) will come flying.
I did the same on a British forum, everyone was so knowledgeable, I decided that it was the area to get the information I needed, the result, a photo of a Hornby OO model loco that the same forum goers would condemn for it's innacuracies.
There seems to be plenty of assistance available for what I contrive to be quite often irrelevant subjects, (is this item on epray a piece of junk or what, should I pay the price asked, this sort of thing will generally pull in a couple of pages of answers) but what amounts to a simple request for honest knowledge seems to dissapear in the folds of nonsense.
R-T-R for a lot of modellers (and I will use the term 'modellers' in this instance) is a source of satisfaction and a manner to obtain models that for the most part are quite accurate and innexpensive, it is through this that the art of kit bashing and finally scratchbuilding develops, and often, new manufacturers.
The construction of a layout, even with R-T-R items, is still a big kit and takes thought and skill to execute in a satisfactory manner, there is room for it all, but if you condemn R-T-R and/or seek out the faults and suggest you could do better, then show us by example and help some of us less fortunate obtain what is needed to model in a satisfactory manner.
Even then, the important thing is that 'we' are getting what 'we' want from the hobby.
Teditor.
Teditor
twhite wrote: Galaxy--Gee, I think you're my new hero! Tom
Aw, shucks surely you jest!
MisterBeasley wrote:How much, I wonder, is just the "Fear Factor?" 3 years ago I bought a craftsman kit, and I have finally worked up the nerve to start it. I was afraid I'd mess it up, or I would get it all together and be really disappointed that it didn't look as good as I'd hoped. Now, though, I've started it, the model is looking pretty good so far. And, I'm having fun. Once I got past the first couple of steps, and the model started to take shape, I realized that I could do a good job of this kit.Have you ever had the "ready-to-run blues?" That's when you get a great RTR model, get it home, put it on your layout, run it around and then...well, "Now what?" Yeah, maybe you'll get some pride of ownership when you show it to someone else, but basically, that's it. Compare that feeling to the hours, days or weeks it takes to build a model that's a bit more of an effort. Think of the challenges, the mental exercise of figuring out what the heck those directions are trying to tell you. Those memories will be with you again every time you see that car go by, or pass your eyes over that structure as the train passes it.Try it. Take a risk. Don't any of you sit on your fingers, because if you're scratchbuilding or kitbuilding, you're likely to glue those fingers to your behind with CA.
I've noticed that the RTR cars usually don't operate as well as those you build yourself. Derailments and such like that.
Modeling the N&W freelanced at the height of their steam era in HO.
Daniel G.
twhite wrote: Packers1 wrote:Trust me: I suck at scratchbuilding and have pretty much no tools to aid in doing it. But I have created some insane looking "diesels" (they don't run) with some frieght cars that won't be running/don't fit my era and the shells from some busted locos. I to your superior modeling skills, I'd probably fail if I tried to make a working steam loco.You know, I don't see anything in the above post that says that Packers WON'T scratchbuild, all I see is someone who says right now that he 'sucks' at it. Heck, I 'sucked' at it when I started, we ALL did, admit it. And anyone who thinks that they sprang full-blown into this hobby with all the craftsmanship skills necessary to turn out an Award-winning model on the first try is either putting themselves on or is the ULTIMATE Egotist. It's like learning a new piece of music--sounds like CRAP the first time you sight-read it, but after you start practicing it, it all comes together. But it takes time and work, and after a while, the next piece of music you tackle might just start to come easier from the techniques you learned working on that first piece. I sure don't get the idea that Packers said "I suck at this, so forget it." We all start somewhere. Tom
Yep, I never said that I will not start scratchbuilding. But I have no skills, so I'll stick w/ the plastic locos. Besides, they're cheaper. Of course, if scratchbuilding is cheaper, then I'd better learn how to do it.
What some people are missing here is that for some folks, building models is not the focus of their hobby. Instead, it's running the trains that's their real hobby. Some are "roundy-rounders", while others are realistic operators. In either case, the building of scale models is merely the means to an end. If they build anything, it's because they have to (for economic reasons, usually), not because they want to. In that case, there's no fear of kit building, it's simply annoyance of kit building.
I fully appreciate that there are those folks out there that build things just to build things (I'm not one of them, which is why I don't build armor or airplanes any more as after you build them, then what?). What's amazing to me is that if someone says they don't want to scratchbuild or build kits, the automatic assumption is that there must be something wrong with them (they are lazy, they have no talent, they are not a "real" model railroader, etc.).
Paul A. Cutler III************Weather Or No Go New Haven************
Paul3 wrote: What some people are missing here is that for some folks, building models is not the focus of their hobby. Instead, it's running the trains that's their real hobby. Some are "roundy-rounders", while others are realistic operators. In either case, the building of scale models is merely the means to an end. If they build anything, it's because they have to (for economic reasons, usually), not because they want to. In that case, there's no fear of kit building, it's simply annoyance of kit building.I fully appreciate that there are those folks out there that build things just to build things (I'm not one of them, which is why I don't build armor or airplanes any more as after you build them, then what?). What's amazing to me is that if someone says they don't want to scratchbuild or build kits, the automatic assumption is that there must be something wrong with them (they are lazy, they have no talent, they are not a "real" model railroader, etc.). Paul A. Cutler III************Weather Or No Go New Haven************
Yep...