HarryHotspur wrote: Mailman56701 wrote: Nice work ! Hopefully, the usual two scenarios in such cases won't occur in yours:- criminal gets a slap on the wrist and is out the door.- criminal finds out who it was who held him for the police, and decides to pay them a visit. My money is on number1, and that he already has a record to boot :) I've prosecuted hundreds of similar cases, and not once has the defendant even threatened revenge on the person making the arrest. The consequences of such would be devastating compared to the penalty for shoplifting. A "slap on the wrist" is likely IF (1) it's a first offense and (2) you consider a fine and probably probation and certainly a criminal record a slap. Personally, I think it's appropriate. Giving someone hard time for a first offense $80 shoplifting would be pretty harsh.Mostly I'm proud of Red Horse. If more people had his courage, we'd have far less crime.
Mailman56701 wrote: Nice work ! Hopefully, the usual two scenarios in such cases won't occur in yours:- criminal gets a slap on the wrist and is out the door.- criminal finds out who it was who held him for the police, and decides to pay them a visit. My money is on number1, and that he already has a record to boot :)
Nice work !
Hopefully, the usual two scenarios in such cases won't occur in yours:
- criminal gets a slap on the wrist and is out the door.
- criminal finds out who it was who held him for the police, and decides to pay them a visit.
My money is on number1, and that he already has a record to boot :)
I've prosecuted hundreds of similar cases, and not once has the defendant even threatened revenge on the person making the arrest. The consequences of such would be devastating compared to the penalty for shoplifting.
A "slap on the wrist" is likely IF (1) it's a first offense and (2) you consider a fine and probably probation and certainly a criminal record a slap. Personally, I think it's appropriate. Giving someone hard time for a first offense $80 shoplifting would be pretty harsh.
Mostly I'm proud of Red Horse. If more people had his courage, we'd have far less crime.
I was a cop for nine years (many years ago) and taking revenge isn't unheard of. And the last thing they'd do is publicly threaten it <g>.
As to comparing it to a penalty for a lesser crime, no one said perps are smart. Violence occurs on a daily basis for much less.
As to "slap on the wrist", I personally had cases (mostly dui) with lessened senteces and/or completely dismissed for such reasons as the judge liked the perp's personality, etc. (usually, a woman perp...). I remember once that the judge dismissed a case because the perp co-operated at the time of arrest by not fighting us, lol.
Fwiw.
Way to go Red Horse! We need MORE people to step up to the plate rather than turn the other way when crimes are being committed . . .
You have my respect!
Red Horse,
You continue to show the meaning of responsible citizenship; from your service to your community as an EMT (I hope I got that right) to this act of selflessness, we all could stand to learn from you. All Americans should feel the calling to service, whether through charity, community government, military service, or just by helping out a neighbor. I think it's no minor point that you, as a Native American, are such a giving citizen when you don't exactly owe our country anything from a historical standpoint...! You are a fine American and I would be proud to know you.
Good on you!
Modeling the Rio Grande Southern First District circa 1938-1946 in HOn3.
Aside from doing the shop owner a favor, you may have done the perp a major one as well! Assuming he was showing off - and not a habitual law breaker - this may be enough to convince him that the other side of the fence is an easier route.
Ha, he is lucky he didn't get the stuffing beat out of him!!!
Good Job!
Mobilman44
ENJOY !
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
Thanks for all the support on trying to take a bite out of crime!!!!
In New Hampshire there is what is called a "will full concealment law", which means we don't have to wait until the person leaves the store with the goods all we have to do is witness the concealment BUT from my past training as a store detective I knew that I could not let the kid out of my sight so that he could "dump" the goods and then sue for false arrest.
I never let the kid out of my sight and my old training kept him from realizing that he was being watched, what happens now, who knows, but like I said, I'd do it again.
In the years that I worked in the undercover retail biz I had apprehended over 300 bad guys and gals and had testified at over 200 court cases for shop lifting.
I would not expect anyone without the proper training to attempt to apprehend a shoplifter on their own, I was with a buddy so I had back up, even when I worked in loss prevention I always had a partner, today kids carry guns and they don't need to be bigger or stronger than you to do harm or worse, all they have to know how to do is aim and then thats all she wrote.
Please, if you see something like this happening let some one who is employed by the store know and if they choose to look the other way like the Wal-Mart employee did than at least YOU tried to save them some of their profits and do the right thing.
The world is becoming a dark place my friends, and no amount of money or stuff is worth loosing your life over.
Be well and please be careful.
Jess Red Horse.
Required to own a weapon? A gun? Good grief. I know many law abiding people who would be more likely to shoot themselves or the postman if they owned a gun. How is it enforced? I presume they aren't required to carry the gun with them at all times. Sounds a bit over reaching to me, but the results were great so perhaps it's a good idea.
Do you live near Kennesaw? Great Civil War museum there, with the original General 4-4-0.
- Harry
And if every law abiding citizen was packing heat, less criminals would be tempted! Look at the drop in crime in Kennesaw GA, when a law was passed that citizens there were required to own a weapon! The crime rate went to almost zero!
It's amazing what happens when criminals know that they aren't the only ones that have guns!
Rotor
Jake: How often does the train go by? Elwood: So often you won't even notice ...
Way to go Jess!!! I work in retail, (I won't say for who), and even if we witness first hand, a shoplifter taking something, no matter how much, if we touch him/her, or try in any way to detain him/her, we will be immediately dismissed. Company policy.. We get ripped off on a daily, almost hourly, bassis.
Dick
Texas Chief
Kenfolk wrote: Way to go! When I pointed out a shoplifter to wallyworld the store employee acted like she could care less and wanted to ignore it. I insisted it made prices higher for the rest of us. She called the person back to the checkout, removed the pilfered items, then let the person go merrily on her way. Duh.No wonder so many are inclined to try it.
Way to go!
When I pointed out a shoplifter to wallyworld the store employee acted like she could care less and wanted to ignore it. I insisted it made prices higher for the rest of us. She called the person back to the checkout, removed the pilfered items, then let the person go merrily on her way. Duh.
No wonder so many are inclined to try it.
NOT where I live! The cops and courts make WAY too much money off of fines, court costs and probation. Plus you get your name, address and picture on the front page of the local paper!(It's a small town...)
tstage wrote: Jess,You never know what eventual impact your intercession may have on this young man, or his two comrades. In a slightly different (and less dramatic) scenario, I got "busted" by a high school English teacher 30+ years go for plagiarizing a class assignment. My teacher called me into her room after class one day, looked me straight in the eye, and asked me if there was anything I needed to tell her about the assignment that I had previously handed in the day before. I told her "No". I was then asked to sit at my desk until "something came to mind". Well, after what seemed like an eternity of silence "thinking it over" (probably about 5 minutes of actual elapsed time), I finally fessed up to the crime.In reality, that had actually been my 2nd plagiarized assignment in that particular English class within a 2 week span. I didn't caught - or at least confronted - the 1st time I cheated. But I sure did the 2nd time. And I applaud the fortitude of my English teacher for confronting me, and for the methodology she used to handle the situation.Needless to say, I learned a very valuable and timely lesson that day on honesty; one that I obviously have not forgotten. And I can honestly say that I have never plagiarized anything from that day forth.Jess, thanks for stepping in and getting involved in a situation that some of us might have been tempted to just "look the other way" at. That young man may actually someday look back on this unpleasant situation in his life and be thankful that it turned out the way it did.Tom
Jess,
You never know what eventual impact your intercession may have on this young man, or his two comrades. In a slightly different (and less dramatic) scenario, I got "busted" by a high school English teacher 30+ years go for plagiarizing a class assignment.
My teacher called me into her room after class one day, looked me straight in the eye, and asked me if there was anything I needed to tell her about the assignment that I had previously handed in the day before. I told her "No". I was then asked to sit at my desk until "something came to mind". Well, after what seemed like an eternity of silence "thinking it over" (probably about 5 minutes of actual elapsed time), I finally fessed up to the crime.
In reality, that had actually been my 2nd plagiarized assignment in that particular English class within a 2 week span. I didn't caught - or at least confronted - the 1st time I cheated. But I sure did the 2nd time. And I applaud the fortitude of my English teacher for confronting me, and for the methodology she used to handle the situation.
Needless to say, I learned a very valuable and timely lesson that day on honesty; one that I obviously have not forgotten. And I can honestly say that I have never plagiarized anything from that day forth.
Jess, thanks for stepping in and getting involved in a situation that some of us might have been tempted to just "look the other way" at. That young man may actually someday look back on this unpleasant situation in his life and be thankful that it turned out the way it did.
Tom
Wow...you're such a hardened criminal LOL.
I'd liken that to "jaywalking" as a perpetrator in the criminal world.
I could only Hope my past was as troubled as yours
Way to be, Jess! What hobby store in Rochester was it?
Jim
Modeling the Baltimore waterfront in HO scale
Messrs. Smith and Wesson can usually be relied on to handle the second scenario...
-George
"And the sons of Pullman porters and the sons of engineers ride their father's magic carpet made of steel..."
The parents must be proud...
Still Great Job
Tjsingle
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Kenfolk wrote:Way to go! When I pointed out a shoplifter to wallyworld the store employee acted like she could care less and wanted to ignore it. I insisted it made prices higher for the rest of us. She called the person back to the checkout, removed the pilfered items, then let the person go merrily on her way. Duh.No wonder so many are inclined to try it.
I think Wal Mart has a policy not to prosecute shoplifters under a certaind dollar amount, because the lost time in wages far outweighs the cost of the merchandise. They just take the stuff back and throw the bum out of the store.
topcopdoc wrote: Be careful my friend, I received permenant injuries to my neck doing the same thing. The suspect was a juvenile and it took myself and 3 other men to finally subdue him. In addition the suspect signed counter complaints against me for assault. Then his mother filed a civil suit against me.When all was settled he was found guilty and the civil suit was dismissed. He got a slap on the wrist and I am typing this with a pain in my neck which has been there since 1983.Doc
Be careful my friend, I received permenant injuries to my neck doing the same thing. The suspect was a juvenile and it took myself and 3 other men to finally subdue him.
In addition the suspect signed counter complaints against me for assault. Then his mother filed a civil suit against me.
When all was settled he was found guilty and the civil suit was dismissed. He got a slap on the wrist and I am typing this with a pain in my neck which has been there since 1983.
Doc
Doc, that's messed up, no other way to put it. They sued YOU?! Man, somethings wrong in that.
Sawyer Berry
Clemson University c/o 2018
Building a protolanced industrial park layout
topcopdoc wrote: Each state has its own set of laws on shoplifting. Most have immunity for the police or store employees if for example the suspect is able to ditch the stolen item before he is stopped and searched. A private citizen can make an arrest or hold a suspect legally if he witnessed the theft or concealment of the stolen item but if the stolen item is not found on the suspect when apprehended there is no immunity granted to the private citizen from being sued.Doc
Each state has its own set of laws on shoplifting.
Most have immunity for the police or store employees if for example the suspect is able to ditch the stolen item before he is stopped and searched.
A private citizen can make an arrest or hold a suspect legally if he witnessed the theft or concealment of the stolen item but if the stolen item is not found on the suspect when apprehended there is no immunity granted to the private citizen from being sued.
Just the legal system's way of protecting criminals while at the same time providing employment security for lawyers!
"...that no act of kindness goes unpunished..."
Way to go Jess!!!! It is sad that this lad doesn't have a good role model, hopefully he will learn something from this experience.
Shop lifting costs all of us over $6B a year in this country, and that is BILLION with a "B" !! And that cost is added into the retail price of everything we purchase, so people who don't think this effects them individually, I have news for you, you are living on Fantasy Island.
Chalk up another one for the Good Guys!
George
For those thinking about going out and nabbing a shoplifter, consider the following.
In the state of California, and in most cases the rest of the United States and other countries, store employees and managers have certain powers of arrest. Store officials may detain for investigation (for a reasonable length of time), the person whom they have probable cause to believe is attempting to take or has unlawfully taken merchandise.
Generally, in the United States, the store employees who detain suspects outside of and inside the store premises are allowed by state statute limited powers of arrest and have the power to initiate criminal arrests or civil sanctions or both, depending on the policy of the retailer and the state statutes governing civil demands and recovery for shoplifting. Merchants may conduct a limited search to recover the item by those authorized to make the detention. Only packages, shopping bags, handbags or other property in the immediate possession of the person detained may be searched, but not any clothing worn by the person because this would require a search warrant under the law. Licensed security guards in the United States can, under the law, ask suspects to voluntarily empty their purses, pockets, wallets, handbags, etc. and most first offenders and amateur shoplifters generally agree to do this when suggested.
An accused shoplifter has rights that protects him or her from being falsely detained. The accused is subject to many of the same rights as would be present in an arrest from sworn law enforcement, such as the right to remain silent.
Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running BearSpace Mouse for president!15 year veteran fire fighterCollector of Apple //e'sRunning Bear EnterprisesHistory Channel Club life member.beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam
topcopdoc wrote:Be careful my friend, I received permenant injuries to my neck doing the same thing. The suspect was a juvenile and it took myself and 3 other men to finally subdue him. In addition the suspect signed counter complaints against me for assault. Then his mother filed a civil suit against me.When all was settled he was found guilty and the civil suit was dismissed. He got a slap on the wrist and I am typing this with a pain in my neck which has been there since 1983.Doc
I can see whee you have to be careful in such situations when it comes to injury and lawsuits.
When I was in college my girlfriend and I were walking up the sidewalk into a grocrery store when we saw a guy in a thick coat being chased out of the store by an employee. The Employee was yelling for him to stop, so I assumed he had stolen something. Since he was running down the sidewalk towards me, I reared up and threw my shoulder into him, throwing him up against, and pinning him to, a brick pillar. He started to struggle to get away but the store employee ran up to grab him. Once the employee had him I just walked on into the store and finished my shopping. Never heard from the store, never heard what happened beyond that.
Fortunately I didn't hurt myself, nor have to face any legal issues from it.
WOW. We all need to take martial arts classes before shopping at the LHS!
Seriously, Doc, I am sorry to learn about your neck injury and the legal problems back then. Best regards to you, Doc.
GARRY
HEARTLAND DIVISION, CB&Q RR
EVERYWHERE LOST; WE HUSTLE OUR CABOOSE FOR YOU