Explain U.P.'s Gas Turbine locomotive's operation?

[M636C]

Ulrich,

I'm slow at getting back to you about 8080. I think there were some details in a copy of "Streamliner", but I can't recall when.

Your comment about the Baldwin Westinghouse "Blue Goose" prototype reminded me that unlike the GE turbines, I think it actually had two turbines side by side. There is an old but interesting book (in German) on gas turbine locomotives by Wolfgang Stoffels. It has a lot of interesting technical details, including a proposed EMD FG-9, which had a French-style free piston gas generator turbine. I can't find it at the moment but I'll post the title if you are interested (and if I can find it).

Peter

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by M636C

Ulrich,

I'm slow at getting back to you about 8080. I think there were some details in a copy of "Streamliner", but I can't recall when.

Your comment about the Baldwin Westinghouse "Blue Goose" prototype reminded me that unlike the GE turbines, I think it actually had two turbines side by side. There is an old but interesting book (in German) on gas turbine locomotives by Wolfgang Stoffels. It has a lot of interesting technical details, including a proposed EMD FG-9, which had a French-style free piston gas generator turbine. I can't find it at the moment but I'll post the title if you are interested (and if I can find it).

Peter

Hi Peter,

Yep, the Blue Goose was equipped with two 2000 hp turbines side by side. And with a steamgenerator for passengercar heating!
Westinghouse planed a serie of gasturbine passenger and freightlocos. The Blue Goose was ready in 1950 had many failures, project was canceled later and Blue Goose was scrapped in 1952 - Wheelarrangement: like the 4500 hp Alco 101 and the UP´s.B+B-B+B!

A similar Baldwin projekt was canceled before prototypes.

You have also A.J. Wolffs book about UP´s Turbines?
He made a good joke in the table about the tenders.

In the column "HEATINGSYSTEM" he wrote for the 8080 tender "N/A" - Hey, this is a coal tender so "NONE" will be correct!
And the ultrajoke you find at the next row: This gastank-tender used behind the #57. This was equipped with a "STEAM" heating? Sure, when the propane is hot enough they become a perfect onestage booster rocket.

[mls1621]

The fuel tender for #57 had a double wall design for safety, but it also acted as a heat exchanger. Steam was passed through to increase the pressure of the liquid propane. A minmum pressure of 150 PSI was required for normal operation.

57 was converted back to bunker C in early 1955 following repairs to the turbine.

[M636C]

Mike,

This might sound like a strange question but where did you get 150 psi steam from? I thought only the GE demonstrator 50 had a steam generator, and I wouldn't have thought that you could get that sort of pressure from a normal steam heating generator. Did the propane tender have its own boiler?

Peter

[cwclark]

the gas turbine works by compressing a high volume of air , mixing it with fuel and igniting it...the expansion of the ignited gas / fuel mixture has a tremendous amount of kenetic energy, so much so, that it can turn a set of turbine blades with an awesome force, creating a rotary motion that can be harnessed into a mechanical power source....I work at a gas turbine power plant and the G.E. frame 7 gas turbine can create 740,000 horse power...that's a lot of ponies in a row....

[Anonymous]

Hey all.....just a little holy grail..... i recently purchased the builders plate from Big Blow,
8500 hp Gtel #5 serial 33217, class 2(c-c)816/816-12GE752,blt-Dec 1958.....it even,
has traces of U.P. Armor Yellow on the reverse side. Its an awesome find to add to my collection of EMD and G.E. plates. I also have a standard silver, blue and black-EMD-
plate,and a standard G.E. plate. They are unique, because they're both blank, and mint.......L8ter[:D]

[1shado1]

"Hey all.....just a little holy grail..... i recently purchased the builders plate from Big Blow,..."

So show us some pictures already!

[grandeman]

QUOTE: Originally posted by 1shado1

"Hey all.....just a little holy grail..... i recently purchased the builders plate from Big Blow,..."

So show us some pictures already!

No kidding, where are the pics???

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by 4884bigboy

Yes UP used them regularly, they were no experiment! The Veranda offered by Lionel looks good, but I think BLI should make a super turbine, with a B unit and everything. That would be cool!

The super Turbine, Class 1-30 is coming out from Tower 55 and should be a nice model at a much less price than the brass ones. Overland has offered.

The Union Pacific was the one and only railroad to use the Gas Turbine and their use only lasted only about ten years of service for each of the three classes. Even the last ones, the 8500 horse power units were all retired in only ten years or less of service. They were extremely loud, much like a smaller jet plane and the diesels had increased in horsepower and reliability that special units were not longer needed. They were all custom in the context of production items as they were designed for the Union Pacific and not a catalog item with GE or anyone else. On the subject of Bunker C, the turbines were started on kerosene or diesel type fuel and switched over as they warmed up.

The 51 class standard Turbines and the 61 class Veranda's were only 4500 horse power and were used with two additional GP's the second half of their life. This gave them the power to keep trains rolling at higher speeds. The Tenders were added to the small turbines about 1955 after three years of use to increase their distance between fuel stops. Bunker C was the normal fuel and the first tenders were made by splicing two of the 4-12-2, 9000 tenders together as the 9000 class was scrapped starting in 1953 to 1956 or so.

The first of the 61 class received its tender from an 800 FEF-1 class and it was different from the other standard and Veranda's. The 1-30 class turbines all had fuel tenders converted from the FEF-1 class since they were going out of service by 1958 and several of the FEF-1's got the 23000 gal tenders from the 2 and 3 class after 1956 as they were sidelined. This was a way to use the tenders with the standard trucks and not the centipede trucks for the turbines.

I am happy to see the last turbines will be offered by Tower 55 as one of their first three projects according to their advertisement.

[Anonymous]

Will shortly have photos of my U.P. # 5 8500hp GTEL Turbine builders plate on here.............L8ter[:D]

[Leon Silverman]

Peter:
Mike did not specify whether the steam or the liquid propane had to be at 150 PSI.
Saturated steam at 150 PSIG is approximately 365 degrees Farenheit.
Liquid propane would have to be heated to only 331.41 degrees to be at 150 PSIG.
This might explain the high fuel consumption at idle speed because of the energy required to maintain fuel flow.

[Anonymous]

Ok,.....Heres the link to view my personal U.P.\ EMD railroad collection, including U.P.
#5 turbine builders plate...........just a few goodies i've collected including pristine blank
plates..........L8ter

http://www.railimages.com/gallery/jonjones