Controversial Mergers

[BRAKIE]

QUOTE: Originally posted by whitman500

I'm definitely in the minority on this one, but I think in real practical terms the consolidation of the US railroad industry was both necessary and beneficial. After WWII, the railroads got the rug pulled out from under them through a combination of federally-funded highways, the rise of air transport and the persistence of antiquated regulation by the ICC. Several of the truly big disasters in post-WWII railroading like Penn Central and Rock Island were partly caused by the ICC's ludicrously long review periods for mergers.

The fact of the matter is that the inevitable shift in transportation revenues away from railroads in favor of trucks, cars and planes meant that there was a huge overcapacity problem in the rail system by the late 1950s. If the ICC had been more reasonable in allowing consolidation (as well as pricing flexibility, passenger route termination, etc.) prior to the Staggers Act, then we would probably have a larger, healthier railroad industry today. Instead, a lot of railroads without a future limped along for years waiting for merger approval while spending nothing on improving their equipment or quality of service and bleeding market share to non-railroad alternatives. In the long run, the mergers probably saved the industry by allowing the significant reduction in fixed costs required by the huge drop in demand that took place after WWII.

Absolutely and the best reply to this topic..That is the exact reasons the railroads had to start merging or die off one by one.After the RI died a lonely death and there was several more on the brink of bankruptcy or was bankrupt.The Milw also died.
I believe many doesn't recall the 50s,60s70s and the early 80s wasn't railroad friendly and that climate has improved much in the last 25 years.
Ever think of how many railroads would be left without mergers? Just look at the truck lines that has cease to exist over the last few years.

[Sunset Limited]

Huuugggghhh That UP-SP merger!!!! [V] I love SP and I like UP, but It just does'nt go together! It's like merging two fruits! A lime and a apple, an creating a product called 'Lapple'!!!!! YUK!!!!

[Anonymous]

I hate all of the mergers. We've lost too much history from it.

[West Coast S]

The loss of the SP occured before UP got in the act, Rio Grande was in control for a number of years before UP stepped in to give the eulogy. History notes that it was always intented to have one company ,one railroad from Omaha to Sacramento, which explains prior UP ownership during its history. It just took time for UP to complete the merger.

The ATSF merger was necessary in 1991 not in 1995. The ATSF was on the ropes in early 90s when intermodal was becoming a potential profit generator, ATSF took the risk and set the standards for the rest of the rail industry.and was again profitable by 1995 .

I predict the last great merger will be KCS among NS, BNSF or UP.

Despite the good intentions at the time they will be missed .

[Anonymous]

Union Pacific gobbling up SOuthern Pacific. That appears to be the least liked merger in your poll.

[whitman500]

I'm definitely in the minority on this one, but I think in real practical terms the consolidation of the US railroad industry was both necessary and beneficial. After WWII, the railroads got the rug pulled out from under them through a combination of federally-funded highways, the rise of air transport and the persistence of antiquated regulation by the ICC. Several of the truly big disasters in post-WWII railroading like Penn Central and Rock Island were partly caused by the ICC's ludicrously long review periods for mergers.

The fact of the matter is that the inevitable shift in transportation revenues away from railroads in favor of trucks, cars and planes meant that there was a huge overcapacity problem in the rail system by the late 1950s. If the ICC had been more reasonable in allowing consolidation (as well as pricing flexibility, passenger route termination, etc.) prior to the Staggers Act, then we would probably have a larger, healthier railroad industry today. Instead, a lot of railroads without a future limped along for years waiting for merger approval while spending nothing on improving their equipment or quality of service and bleeding market share to non-railroad alternatives. In the long run, the mergers probably saved the industry by allowing the significant reduction in fixed costs required by the huge drop in demand that took place after WWII.

[dwRavenstar]

As we used to say back home....... They shoulda let Conrail be Conrail

[trainboyH16-44]

ALL OF THE ABOVE!
they are all of the worst mergers of all time, and why the heck would the ICC let any of them happen!? Don't forget the D&RGW/Espee merger. What happened there? I thought the Rio Grande was swallowing the SP.
I miss all the different roadnames, and though there are some good mergers(Not that I can think of one off the top of my head) there are just a lot of things that shouldn't have happened. I could go on, and on, and on, but I won't.
CP/CN? I hope not! CP/UP? Even worse!
Trainboy
P.S. Pretty funny, the UP running out of numbers like that, eh?

[Anonymous]

Any Thing UP !!!!!!!!!! I was also sad about Chessie ......I soon got over it

[twhite]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SpaceMouse

I can't get over Central Pacific leasing all their lines to SP.

[:D]Good one, Spacemouse! Especially since I grew up around the old Central Pacific Donner Pass line. Did you know that historically, the Southern Pacific was almost ready to sell the Central Pacific to the Union Pacific before Ed Harriman stepped in and bought them all, back in the early 20th century? After the breakup of the Harriman empire, SP quickly grabbed up CP and brought it back into the fold. Oddly enough, CP kept a partial identity clear up until the UP merger (CP signs on telegraph shacks, signal boxes and even a couple of MofW cars I once saw up at Norden). So, historically, the CP/SP was one of the first [xx(] mergers.
Tom[:D]

[Anonymous]

Can I vote for one that hasn't happened yet? I'm really, REALLY not cool with this BNSF and NScorp thing that's brewing.

[SpaceMouse]

I can't get over Central Pacific leasing all their lines to SP.

[BRAKIE]

Guys,None of the modern mergers can top that of the wreck of the Penn-Central merger...This PRR/NYC merger changed the railroad scene forever.There was a lot of power moves in those days prior to the PRR/NYC merger including the C&O taking control of the B&O in fear it might fall into the hands of the talked about PRR/NYC merger.Not to mention the N&W,NKP and Wabash merger.Even the FEDs got in on the act when it appointed the N&W has the overseer of the weak E-L(which the N&W wanted no part of) to prevent its take over.Yes there was a lot of power moves because of the PC merger long before February the 3rd,1968.

[Anonymous]

none of those mergers served the public. Staggers was a mistake.

[Anonymous]

I didn't vote becuase i think all UP whatever mergers are Controversial. but i don't want to get into that right now. I could Accidently start a flame war with a UP fan

[Virginian]

Well, I didn't vote, but I don't really like any mergers. Yes, the corporate "entity" makes more money for the shareholders at the expense of good jobs for honest Americans. Every time I hear the word shareholders anymore I want to puke.
I wonder what they are going to do when they finally eliminate enough good paying jobs thru mergers and/or offshore outsourcing that their consumer base can no longer afford their products. We are heading that way just as fast as we can. And make no mistake, the REALLY fat cat (think billions or hundreds of millions here) supporters of BOTH parties are just getting richer thru the process, so it isn't about to stop. I just don't see us sustaining this standard of living selling each other McDonald's hamburgers.
Our forefathers risked their lives and their fortunes. Our shareholders just want max benefits.

[philnrunt]

I could'nt decide whether to answer based on emotions- UP-SP, or hard economics-CR-NS-CSX. I ended up going with my feelings, hated to see SP disappear. But I understood it, in financial terms.
Still don't know why CR needed to be split up, of all of the mergers, this one dosn't make sense to me, not economically, not route wise, not for better regional transport, either.
Just my opinion.

[twhite]

I'll have to say UP eating up (literally) SP and Rio Grande. I know that SP was kind of the 'sick case' of west coast railroads, but UP didn't plan ahead when they took over SP and they're still suffering from Traveling Gridlock. And UP literally wiping out Rio Grande's traffic base by diverting just about everything north through Wyoming (as if the UP tracks there weren't busy enough) left Colorado with just about as much rail mileage and traffic as it had in 1870. And even though Tennessee Pass had a tough 21-mile 3%, at least when SP merged with Rio Grande, the line was busier than a one-armed paper hanger. What I'd like to know, is where did UP divert all that Pueblo Oakland traffic TO? I guess what really kick-starts my head-shaking is that Midwestern UP absorbed two basically mountain railroads and then realized that they didn't have any idea of what to do with them or how to run them. Okay, my [2c] worth, and sorry if I've upset any UP fans out there, but when you live in Northern California where I do and see what's happening (or not happening, as the case may be) you just get a little discouraged!
Tom [V][:(][:O]

[CBQ_Guy]

Hi Chris!

None of 'em! They created fallen flags. I miss all those "old" railroads I saw growing up. [:(]

[Anonymous]

I would say that I am torn between the UP+SP one as well as BN+AT&SF mergers.... I remember as a kid watching the Santa Fe's rolling through Corona California and now I have UP right on the other side of the freeway from me in Fontana CA.... at least I get to see the Santa Fe and Southern Pacific loco's now and again pulling through here.

[trolleyboy]

I wasn't pleased by the CN/WC merger nor was I pleased by WC buying the Algoma central a few years before. The ACR was a neat railroad now it's sole is completely gone. TB

[ShaunCN]

The chessie system seabord merger shouldn't have hapend. The chessie logo and paint schem ewere the best and not only did one railroad go down in this merge but in chessie system their was B&O, C&O and WM.

also I thought that CN bought Wissconsin Central not CP Rail

[CP5415]

The Conrail purchase saddened me. Here you have a railroad that rose from the ashes of fallen flags only to be carved up by those reaping the rewards from investments. There was no need for it. Conrail was a bonified Class 1 railroad that shouldn't have been bought out.

Just my 2 cents

Gordon

[Anonymous]

The BN-SF merger ruffles my features the most. Generally speaking, I hate mergers period. Inevitably someone gets [censored] out of a job, while the corporate brass sit on their thrones with a '*** happens' attitude. I'm fed up with the dog-eat-dog mentality that mergers represent. The perceived benefits are few, IMHO.

[Anonymous]

UP+ SP my Dad owned SP stock and it went in the tolit and I hate UP'S SP PATCH HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!SAVE THIS COUNTRY FORM UNCLE PETE AND DAVISON AND HIS CLOWN GENSIUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![:o)][:o)][:o)][:o)][:o)][:o)][:o)][:o)][:o)][:o)]

[Noah Hofrichter]

I wi***he Wisconsin Central was still a seperate railroad. Now that they're gone there's only one mainly-in-Wisconsin railroad, the Wisconsin & Southern Railroad[:(!][:(!][:(][:(][V]

Noah[:p][8D][:p]

[AggroJones]

Union Pacific eating Southern Pacific.

[Anonymous]

Probably the BN-ATSF merger. They took two excellent paint scemes and replaced them with a butt-ugly one.

[Anonymous]

NS/CSX/CR! I hate these GE NS brings up here! I hate NS period for that matter!