Rookie question, however, I used the search and came up empty-handed. What are the major differences between Athern's Genesis and thier Ready to Roll lines of motive power?
Obviously, the Genesis is more detailed, but is the difference signifigant? Are there any mechanical differences between the two?
~ Jason
It depends on which RTR rolling stock your talking about. Some range from the old blue box kits coming assembled with metal wheelsets and kadee style couplers while new toolings are almost genesis quality such as the Maxi Is, 30k tanks, slurry tanks, and 2970 hoppers. Seeing picks of the new spine car looks like that will be in the same ranks.
Also, with the Trinity 5161 cars, they actually started as genesis but we bumped down the RTR with the only differnece being the trucks and the couple/ couple pockets.
Correct me if Im wrong, but I think that as far as rolling stock, Athearn is only using the RTR lable.
-Tom
tomnoy3 wrote: Correct me if Im wrong, but I think that as far as rolling stock, Athearn is only using the RTR lable. -Tom
No, you can get rolling stock under the Genesis line. However, I must apologize, because I was actually refering to the motive power. I'll edit my original post for clarification.
RTR doesn't compare to Atlas...in fact Genesis barely does...Atlas has manned cabs and detailing is excellent. They run extremely well and IMHO, I say they produce the best overall loco. If you go to sound QSI out performs MRC anyday.
leejax01 wrote: RTR doesn't compare to Atlas...in fact Genesis barely does...
Really! Wow...that's exactly the kind of info I was looking for. So basically, I can't go wrong with Atlas? That's good to know. I thought my Genesis SD70's were awesome, but I wasn't sure how the rest of the competition stacked up. I wanted something with a similar level of detail.
So, stick with Atlas factory equiped with DCC and sound and I'll be in good shape?
The funny thing is that retooled RTR locos now run in the 70-80 dollar range...as you referred to a modern widecab, I referred to the RTR ac4400cw's selling for 74.99-89.99. Honestly,they are priced as well as others and that without working ditchlights on the RTR's. RTR is good, but Genesis is better. I have Atlas,RTR,Genesis,Kato,BLI,T55,P2K and I honestly would only buy RTR if no other manufacturer makes that type loco. I would rather buy a discounted Atlas on Ebay or wherever than a RTR loco.
In RTR defense, they also re-wired the electric pick ups from that bent bar to copper frames on both sides of the trucks. They also have the board that allows for a 9 or 8 pin DCC decoder to be used without harnesses. Also, you can make one sound equipped with plugging in a MRC 8 pin sound decoder and removing the rear weight to allow for speaker mounting. I am not a fan of MRC, but even giving them their fair due, the SD45-2 is one of the best sounding locos I have ever heard.
Vincent
Wants: 1. high-quality, sound equipped, SD40-2s, C636s, C30-7s, and F-units in BN. As for ones that don't cost an arm and a leg, that's out of the question....
2. An end to the limited-production and other crap that makes models harder to get and more expensive.
leejax01 wrote: RTR doesn't compare to Atlas...in fact Genesis barely does...Atlas has manned cabs and detailing is excellent. They run extremely well and IMHO, I say they produce the best overall loco. If you go to sound QSI out performs MRC anyday.
While the MRC sound Genesis uses has become to be recognized as a big mistake, the basic loco's made by Genesis can be quite nice.
To say Genesis barely compares with Atlas is silly. I have a Genesis F3ABBA set that is absolulely gorgeous! They are more beautiful than anything I have by Atlas. Now on the average, Atlas is at the top of the heap in quality and paint etc. But please, lets not be irresponsible to new people in the hobby and make silly comments like Genesis barely compares. It is Athearns top of the line series of loco's and rolling stock. The biggest problem for Athearn has always been quality control, so people still find examples of Genesis loco's from time to time, with finishing or running issues. Atlas's quality control has always been much more consistly top notch.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Hmmmm I've been wanting one of Athearn's new Maine Central RS3s which are retailing in the low 70s. I hadn't realised the walkways were smooth, but after reading this thread I looked closer and saw for myself. And no, I don't see any MU hoses either
Mike
Modelling the UK in 00, and New England - MEC, B&M, D&H and Guilford - in H0
riogrande5761 wrote:...To say Genesis barely compares with Atlas is silly. I have a Genesis F3ABBA set that is absolulely gorgeous! They are more beautiful than anything I have by Atlas. Now on the average, Atlas is at the top of the heap in quality and paint etc. But please, lets not be irresponsible to new people in the hobby and make silly comments like Genesis barely compares. It is Athearns top of the line series of loco's and rolling stock. The biggest problem for Athearn has always been quality control, so people still find examples of Genesis loco's from time to time, with finishing or running issues. Atlas's quality control has always been much more consistly top notch.
...
I have to agree with what was said here, good info.
I always find these "so and so vs so and so" threads to be a waste of time since all that usually comes up are biased opinions. A good way to determine what is "best" (if one has the means) is to purchase a locomotive from the manufacturers in question and compare for yourself. Another good way is to visit your LHS (if one is still open in your area) and let them show you the differences (good and bad) in order to come to a logical answer to a "vs" question.
I have only one Atlas engine, a GP-38, and other than the non-silent running factory installed DCC decoder, I'm happy with the engine since it's nice looking and runs pretty good. I also have two Athearn RTR GP40X's, now these run just as good as the Atlas and the detail on all 3 engines is excellent. So yeah, to say "Genesis" (or RTR for that matter) "barely compares with Atlas" is indeed silly.
TONY
"If we never take the time, how can we ever have the time." - Merovingian (Matrix Reloaded)
Athearn Genesis is their top of the line, they are comparable to Atlas "Silver" and "Gold" and Kato, in details and drives, not including sound, with Atlas & Kato on top (for their reliability). When it comes to on-board sound, Atlas wins hands down. Katos don't come with sound.
Athearn's RTR is kind of a hybrid. They still use an open-frame motor, although it has been updated with skewed windings just like can motors have for smoother low end speed. The drive line is also similar to Atlas and Kato drive lines. The trucks however still have the original BlueBox gearing, but are also upgraded with nicklesilver wheels and are now hard wired and the engines are ready for plug-in DCC. Detail is generally upgraded from the old BB, including Celcon handrails, grabs and some other items. Price-wise are comparable to Atlas Trainline, (Atlas TL has the better drives, but less detail). The Athearn RTR do require a longer break-in period to smooth out their running.
Proto 2000 seems to fall somewhere in between Atlas and Athearn RTR depending on the model.
Jay
C-415 Build: https://imageshack.com/a/tShC/1
Other builds: https://imageshack.com/my/albums
riogrande5761 wrote: leejax01 wrote: RTR doesn't compare to Atlas...in fact Genesis barely does...Atlas has manned cabs and detailing is excellent. They run extremely well and IMHO, I say they produce the best overall loco. If you go to sound QSI out performs MRC anyday.While the MRC sound Genesis uses has become to be recognized as a big mistake, the basic loco's made by Genesis can be quite nice. To say Genesis barely compares with Atlas is silly. I have a Genesis F3ABBA set that is absolulely gorgeous! They are more beautiful than anything I have by Atlas. Now on the average, Atlas is at the top of the heap in quality and paint etc. But please, lets not be irresponsible to new people in the hobby and make silly comments like Genesis barely compares. It is Athearns top of the line series of loco's and rolling stock. The biggest problem for Athearn has always been quality control, so people still find examples of Genesis loco's from time to time, with finishing or running issues. Atlas's quality control has always been much more consistly top notch.
I stand behind what I said and I did give Genesis their due. You can't credit Genesis with the F3 shell as they only bought it from someone else who did all the work. I had Genesis F3's and I had nothing but problems with them. They look great but run less that desired and the general attitude is to buy Genesis without sound and add your own sound decoders. I do have Genesis locos and my problems are fragile handrails,bad sound systems as compared to QSI and no manned interiors just to quickly name a few. I once bought an SD70 widecab in Genesis and the flywheel was bent and sounded like an airplane prop at speed. I called Athearn and was given excuses. I fixed it with a vise and patience. How is that for QC?
My comment is my comment as it was not said from online opinions, but from personal experience. Give him time and he will probably find out the same things. Silly comment? Ok then...who has the better QC,Sound decoders,detailing,running quality? Didn't Genesis have a QC problem with the new FP45? Search that one and you get a chance. I bought one and had to fix the fragile detailing. I put it behind an Atlas Dash 8 and guess which one I can hear the motor noise? Athearn Genesis.
Another case in point...the MP15DC compared to the MP15AC. I will be the first to admit in that case the Genesis detailing is top notch, but also is a setback as it is so fragile. The sound decoder makes the loco a bit of a hassle to run and consist...I should know as I had one and got rid of it and I am waiting on the MP15DC in CSX YN3. Again, the Atlas runs better with no problems in the sound decoders or slow running/crawl capability. The Genesis hand rails will fall off at handling and the fuel tank detailing also comes of easily. Genesis detailing is fragile and the sound decoders are problematic...don't even get me started about their choice of bulbs...I have several locos that needs new bulbs after the originals have blown. Guess how many of my Atlas locos needs bulbs? Also place a Genesis loco on a flat surface and check how many wheels are off plain? That will lead to derailments and I usually have to tweak 40% of my Genesis trucks(3 axle especially) out of the NIB box. The last 2 I had to tweak were SD70m's in SF and CSX paint that derailed on the club layout.
Bottom line is if you want problem free running out of the box...buy Atlas. I am not talking about rolling stock as he asked about motive power specifically.
leejax01 wrote: riogrande5761 wrote: leejax01 wrote: RTR doesn't compare to Atlas...in fact Genesis barely does...Atlas has manned cabs and detailing is excellent. They run extremely well and IMHO, I say they produce the best overall loco. If you go to sound QSI out performs MRC anyday.While the MRC sound Genesis uses has become to be recognized as a big mistake, the basic loco's made by Genesis can be quite nice. To say Genesis barely compares with Atlas is silly. I have a Genesis F3ABBA set that is absolulely gorgeous! They are more beautiful than anything I have by Atlas. Now on the average, Atlas is at the top of the heap in quality and paint etc. But please, lets not be irresponsible to new people in the hobby and make silly comments like Genesis barely compares. It is Athearns top of the line series of loco's and rolling stock. The biggest problem for Athearn has always been quality control, so people still find examples of Genesis loco's from time to time, with finishing or running issues. Atlas's quality control has always been much more consistly top notch.I stand behind what I said and I did give Genesis their due. You can't credit Genesis with the F3 shell as they only bought it from someone else who did all the work. I had Genesis F3's and I had nothing but problems with them. They look great but run less that desired and the general attitude is to buy Genesis without sound and add your own sound decoders. I do have Genesis locos and my problems are fragile handrails,bad sound systems as compared to QSI and no manned interiors just to quickly name a few. I once bought an SD70 widecab in Genesis and the flywheel was bent and sounded like an airplane prop at speed. I called Athearn and was given excuses. I fixed it with a vise and patience. How is that for QC? My comment is my comment as it was not said from online opinions, but from personal experience. Give him time and he will probably find out the same things. Silly comment? Ok then...who has the better QC,Sound decoders,detailing,running quality? Didn't Genesis have a QC problem with the new FP45? Search that one and you get a chance. I bought one and had to fix the fragile detailing. I put it behind an Atlas Dash 8 and guess which one I can hear the motor noise? Athearn Genesis.Another case in point...the MP15DC compared to the MP15AC. I will be the first to admit in that case the Genesis detailing is top notch, but also is a setback as it is so fragile. The sound decoder makes the loco a bit of a hassle to run and consist...I should know as I had one and got rid of it and I am waiting on the MP15DC in CSX YN3. Again, the Atlas runs better with no problems in the sound decoders or slow running/crawl capability. The Genesis hand rails will fall off at handling and the fuel tank detailing also comes of easily. Genesis detailing is fragile and the sound decoders are problematic...don't even get me started about their choice of bulbs...I have several locos that needs new bulbs after the originals have blown. Guess how many of my Atlas locos needs bulbs? Also place a Genesis loco on a flat surface and check how many wheels are off plain? That will lead to derailments and I usually have to tweak 40% of my Genesis trucks(3 axle especially) out of the NIB box. The last 2 I had to tweak were SD70m's in SF and CSX paint that derailed on the club layout.Bottom line is if you want problem free running out of the box...buy Atlas. I am not talking about rolling stock as he asked about motive power specifically.
I have had problems with my Genesis F7s and FP45s (right out of the box). The grills on the F7s wouldn't stay on, and one runs jerky. The FP45s REALLY irritated me (Santa Fe warbonnet). At first I was really excited to get them, but they had details falling off out of the box (both of them), handrails that were falling off, and incorrect detailing (notched pilots). Whats worse is that the grabs that are supposed to be silver were left un-painted and look terrible. I don't recall the prototype being delivered with unpainted stainless steel grabs.
I do believe that in the future that I will try to avoid purchasing Genesis locomotives at all costs. Hopefully Proto will do Warbonnet F7s with sound so I can finally get some decent Fs.
Packer wrote:Kato is the only other company that makes GP35s. Kato did, but they usually cost an arm and a leg; and is unassembled. I have a GP35, and like it, despite everything else in BN is a P2K. As of now I'm looking to add sound (what does a Gp35 use anyways, a turbo 567, or a N/A 645?) and bring it to par with my P2Ks. (lift rings, MU hoses, etc.)
Actually Bachmann also makes GP-35's, but that has nothing to do with this Ford vs.Chevy debate...
ok, I just had to add my 2 cents too. Yes, first of all I agree with everything said here. But I did notice the newest Genesis SD 70 ran much better than the RTR anything. (A friend has the genesis)
That being said I have only one of the new Athearn RTR and many Kato and Atlas.
loathar wrote: Actually Bachmann also makes GP-35's, but that has nothing to do with this Ford vs.Chevy debate...
What? You bringin' a Honda into this fight?
J Campbell wrote: loathar wrote: Actually Bachmann also makes GP-35's, but that has nothing to do with this Ford vs.Chevy debate...What? You bringin' a Honda into this fight?
Honda? I thought he was bringing a Mercury into this bash-er ah,post.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
CSmith stated -
Smitty,
Thanks for the heads-up on the Genesis FP45. I purchased one (#107) but have not even taken it out of the box yet as I'm actually building an "along the wall" layout. I'm looking at it inside the box and see what you mean about the unpainted handrails on the cab and engine compartment doors. They, imho, don't look bad since they are quite thin. Here's the link to Arjay's thread with very good photos that you posted.
http://cs.trains.com/forums/1/1436452/ShowPost.aspx#1436452
I will be extra careful when I finally do take it out of the box. I'll be prepared to apply tiny dabs of glue on handrails that seem loose.
Thanks
"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"
You guys must have the worst luck when it comes to buying locomotives. I have a good amount of Genesis, RTR and Blue box locomotives (65 Athearns in all) and have only had 3 that needed to be worked on before I put them on my layout. I bought two of the SP MP15AC's when they came out and one just needed the grill pushed back in place and now they run and look flawlessly. The second locomotive was a RTR SP SD60 with a missing sun shade. Guess what I did, sent an email to Athearn and had a replacement set in 3 days. The third was a RTR BN SD40 with a broken hand rail, took me two minutes to fix with a little Plastruct. All these problems are not necessarily Athearns fault either. They could have been broken while being shipped from China or by some careless customer at the store shifting boxes around to find something he wants. I will admit that the hand rails are fragile, but there not so fragile that the slightest breeze will snap them in half like you guys make them out to be. Athearn makes their hand rails as small as they do because they look closer to the prototype, that's why it says "As Close To Real As It Gets". It also says "Recommended Age Group 8 Years And Older" .
I have an FP45 and the thing that really amazes me is the fact that ALL of the hand rails are still on! I know it's hard to believe but it's true. Here's the really odd part, even after running the thing for hour after hour it still quieter than any Atlas or Kato than I have. I must have gotten some kind of supper special locomotive that was made for Irv himself! But wait, it gets even odder than that. The Two MP15AC's that I have are the same way! Even after banging around cars for hours with a 16 year old at the controls. They outperform Atlas and Kato's and look good doing it.
As for the "QC problem with the new FP45" I did check it out. Athearn did not have problems with their quality control. The quality control did their job. They found that the rear anti climbers were bent upwards and didn't let them ship to the stores.
If Athearn did put Genesis motors in the RTR, it would be well received. Locos being shipped with bent anticlimbers in the F45 is a QC problem as many were sold with the same issue. Also, a recall on a particular version of the F45 locos (SF pinstripe)doesn't qualify as a QC issue either in your book? The rear anticlimber is attached with 2 plastic inserts/dowels into the rear of the loco and they are weak and tend to break if you try and tweak it level. I ended up glueing mine from the underneath with no problems and reglueing 1 grille. A small amount have been received with the loco loose where it is screwed down to the board and caused damage. I like to keep my locos in the boxes and I have to screw/unscrew the tank to run the loco and when I am done to secure it. I plan on drilling the 2 mounting screws through the tank bottom, but I am reluctant so far.
As previously stated, be careful with buying the RTR locos with the light bulb in the cab. The new run of GP38-2's comes to mind. I was shocked to see the bond fire bulb in the cab and it isn't DCC ready as the chassis is more to a BB loco than a RTR loco. On a side note, the Atlas GP38 is quite a looker and the sound is awesome.
AntonioFP45 wrote: CSmith stated - I have had problems with my Genesis F7s and FP45s (right out of the box). The grills on the F7s wouldn't stay on, and one runs jerky. The FP45s REALLY irritated me (Santa Fe warbonnet). At first I was really excited to get them, but they had details falling off out of the box (both of them), handrails that were falling off, and incorrect detailing (notched pilots). Whats worse is that the grabs that are supposed to be silver were left un-painted and look terrible. I don't recall the prototype being delivered with unpainted stainless steel grabs. I do believe that in the future that I will try to avoid purchasing Genesis locomotives at all costs. Hopefully Proto will do Warbonnet F7s with sound so I can finally get some decent Fs.Smitty,Thanks for the heads-up on the Genesis FP45. I purchased one (#107) but have not even taken it out of the box yet as I'm actually building an "along the wall" layout. I'm looking at it inside the box and see what you mean about the unpainted handrails on the cab and engine compartment doors. They, imho, don't look bad since they are quite thin. Here's the link to Arjay's thread with very good photos that you posted.http://cs.trains.com/forums/1/1436452/ShowPost.aspx#1436452I will be extra careful when I finally do take it out of the box. I'll be prepared to apply tiny dabs of glue on handrails that seem loose.Thanks
On both of the units I purchased, grabs had fallen off the fuel tanks, and fortunately I noticed it and found them in the packaging. As far as the end handrails and grabs that popped out, as you noted a small dab of ACC took care of the problem. I will also state again, be carefull when unscrewing the shipping base (don't want to damage the roof details). I suppose overall they are good units, but I was dissappointed at the fact that some of the details fell off, or weren't applied very well to begin with. They sure do look good heading up the Super Chief/El Cap, though!!
I don't know where you buy your locomotives from but they must be buying the rejects from Athearn. After reading your post I decided to do a little experiment with the anticlimbers just to see how weak they really are. As it turns out you can pick up the whole locomotive by the anticlimbers and guess what, they don't break. As for Athearns quality control, I never said that they got all of the ones with the bent anticlimbers. Some ATSF pinstripe's got out but not on the huge level that some people think. (Athearn did get almost all of the GN F45's though and now I have to wait five more months to get them) There is also some responsibility with the buyer also. Just open the box and give it a quick look over. Something like a bent anticlimber should be very easy to see. Hell at the shop I go to they even let you run the locomotive before you buy it.
Roseville Foamer wrote: As for the "QC problem with the new FP45" I did check it out. Athearn did not have problems with their quality control. The quality control did their job. They found that the rear anti climbers were bent upwards and didn't let them ship to the stores.
First it was stated that Athearn QC caught them and didn't let them ship to the stores and then when the recall is brought up it is now that they didn't catch all...the tune changes. Whatever...Can we get back to the topic?
I guess I have to say it again. I never said that they got them all. They didn't, and because they didn't people like you use this as an excuse to make your favorite company look better. They got most of the F45's and the rest that they didn't get were sent back to Athearn for a replacement or a refund. The reality is that every company can have a problem at some stage of production and Athearn had one right at the end.
By the way, we are on the topic...
You're a funny guy with your little jabs...a bit inconsistent, but nevertheless still funny. It seems that you are pro whoever and stick your head in the sand when valid points are brought out. Try and re-read where you said that Athearn didn't have QC problems and they got them before they were shipped...not most of them as you now claim and after I brought up the recall.
On my layout now are: 2 Katos(SD70MAC and C44-9W),2 RTR(SD40-2's), 1 Genesis(FP45),1 BLI Paragon(SD40-2),1 Atlas(Dash 8-40CW). I actually have more Athearn on there this time than anyone else until I shuffle out the motive power. I run every manufacturer that applies to my operations. I don't prefer Athearn over Atlas over T55 over BLI over anyone else, but when you base fact on fact, the Genesis has quite a few problems. Genesis makes models that I have to buy to fill roster spots, but I know what to expect.
Not only with the F45, but say even the MP15AC has it's issues even so that many advise against even buying their sound units, but rather get their non-sound units and installing your own sound. Every model that I comment about I have purchased and gave it the benefit of the doubt. It isn't just me, but search this and other forums and read for yourself. I would like to see Athearn move away from the MRC decoders as that is alot of their problems. They did try and address the packaging issues and damage resulting from them. I even gave MRC its due with the sound on the SD45-2, which is actually one of my most favorite locos of alltime especially in the SF yellow bonnet paint.
The topic was Genesis vs. RTR. Atlas was brought in as the guy who started the topic asked about Atlas specifically. If he asked about BLI,T55,P2K,Kato or anyone else, I would have said what my experiences have given me.
lee, you and I both know that F45's with bent anticlimbers got out. I knew that some got out before I made my first post and obviously you did to, hell you even bought one with a bent anticlimber. What I was trying to point out is that it was a very small amount. It would be almost imposable to not let one out and still be able to meet the delivery date.
Before you buy another Athearn that you won't be happy with, that is, if you're ever going to buy one ever again after this whole discussion I suggest opening the box and really looking the locomotive over. If the shop you go to lets you test run the locomotive take advantage of it. That way when you get the locomotive home you won't have anyone to blame (including Athearn) but yourself if you don't think that the locomotive meets your "standards".