Weathering Steam locos

[steveiow]

All these models,without exception,are truly magnificent and I really enjoy looking at other peoples models,which are,far better than mine

I have steam loco's but I just can't bring myself to dirty up those beautiful PRR T1's-they have to be the the best lookers about!

Am I the only one who do'sent wheather loco's?

Steve

[twhite]

Wayne:

I've used that Cal-Scale casting on a brass kit-bash 2-10-2 also, and it does a great deal to 'fill up' the space between the firebox and the trailing truck. 

Beautiful photos, as usual. 

Tom

[doctorwayne]

I'm not familiar with the CalScale parts you mentioned, but your description is also misleading. Anything below the foundation bar is part of the ashpan, not the firebox.

Mark, the loco shown below has the Cal-Scale parts, which they call "Ashpan Doors" (part #248).  They also make a "Commonwealth Cast Type" (part #249).

On some larger locos, the CNR used cleanout chutes, like the one shown below, (behind the rear driver and in front of the trailing truck spring):

Wayne 

 

[twhite]

Vapeurchapelon:

Here's a photo of the PSC F-81 as you requested.  You're right, I should paint the wheels, but somehow right now I can't bring myself to touch that baby with a brush, LOL!  Probably later. 

 

And yes, if you click the photo to full size, you can see the detail of the frame above the trailing truck--PSC did a remarkable job of 'filling' in detail, IMO, WITHOUT compromising the ability of the loco to take scale radii (30" ABSOLUTE minimum for this baby).

However, I kind of agree with Mark about ash-pans being visible on some steam locos--the Rio Grande 3-cylinder M-75 4-8-2's had VERY visible and rather deep ash-pans.  The two Key models of these locos that I have replicate it quite well.

But never fear, I'll paint those wheels--someday.

Tom     

[dinwitty]

I bought my first steam locomotive and it looks too new. I have read a few books on weathering and they all suggest taking the shell off and airbrushing the running gear. My question is doesn't this also get the wheels all full of paint?

Has anyone had experience with this?

 

lube the wheels and siderods first. whatever streaking or whatever happens adds to the effect, but protects moving parts from the paint, besideds movement will just bust any paint solidity.

 

[marknewton]

Well, I have to disagree with you as well, Vapeurchapelon. The ashpan on narrow firebox locos is hard to see since it is entirely between the frames, but anything with a wide firebox is a different story. The outside edge of the pan will at the very least line up under the outside edge of the foundation bar - mud ring to you - if it doesn't project out past it. Here 's a photo taken at random from the 'net. Are you really claiming the ashpan is almost invisible?



The effect is even more pronounced on centre-cab/Mother Hubbard locos. Even on an oil-fired loco the firepan is highly visible...



I'm not familiar with the CalScale parts you mentioned, but your description is also misleading. Anything below the foundation bar is part of the ashpan, not the firebox.

Ray's simple addition of a "view block" under the firebox makes a tremendous difference to the appearance of his locos, and is a mod I'd recommend to anyone looking to increase the realism of their steam fleet.

Cheers,

Mark.

[VAPEURCHAPELON]

For those of you who don't know what we're talking about, one of the major visual problems with ALL steam models, brass or plastic, is the large amount of open air between the bottom of the firebox and the trailing truck on larger steam.

Roy,

have to disagree quite a bit. If you are speaking of older brass you are correct. Most of these show that unfavorable frame cut-out above the trailing truck, but there were always exeptions.

But since around 1990 you would have a real hard time to find ANY brass model without a fairly prototypical rear frame section - with ash pan or without. The ash pan is almost invisible on most steamers - it's placed between the frame secions.

I could give plenty of examples but would have to make photos especially for that reason. Tom White's wonderful D&RGW F-81 from PSC is a great example for a fairly completely detailed H0scale model (but Tom, I would highly recommend to paint at least all the unpowerd wheels I always do - it adds greatly!) - perhaps he could provide a photo.

The CAL-SCALE description of "ash pan sides" is somewhat misleading because these are not supposed to close that daylight at the height of the frame cut out. These pieces are no ash pan side walls but belong to the lower end of the fire box sides to simulate the mud ring and the air intakes.

[twhite]

Peter/Dr. Wayne--

Thanks for the information on the trailing trucks.  Wow, you'd think that after all the castings I've ordered from PSC over time, it would have dawned on me that they also carry trailing truck castings!  Besides that, they're a really GREAT company to deal with. 

Thanks again, guys. 

Tom

PS:  Peter, if the Blueline AC-5 is anything like the original BLI AC-5 I've got, you won't be able to FIND enough PFE's to put behind it, LOL!  That locomotive is just one POWERFUL puller!  Hope you get it soon. 

[doctorwayne]

Thanks, Tom.   The trailing truck was out of my scrap/spare parts supply, and I think that it's from a Rivarossi Pacific.  It neeed to be modified slightly to fit.  As Peter notes, PSC has several types of trailing trucks available:  the Delta one, with plain bearings and a booster engine is Walthers Part #585-31556 and with roller bearings and a booster, Part # 585-31557.  I'm pretty sure that the booster engine is a separate part, although I don't see a listing for the truck without the booster.

Wayne 

[PASMITH]

Great pictures! I just wish I could put my AC-12 on the front end of your PFE reefer block.

Peter Smith, Memphis

Peter:

Those PFE's were just MADE for AC cab-forwards, IMO.   Hmm, an AC-6 flat-face wouldn't look too shabby at the head of that block, either.

Tom

I have a flat nose BWL Blue Line AC-5 on order. It was supposed to be delivered in May. Now they say September.

The reefers will just have to wait.

Peter Smith, Memphis

[PASMITH]

 

Dr.Wayne--

That's a FABULOUS kit-bash on the Bachmann 4-8-2!  Can I ask you a question?  Where did you get the trailing truck casting?  I don't seem to be able to find one, and I'm in the midst of up-grading one of the Bachmann 4-8-2's. 

Just curious. 

Beautiful job! 

Tom

Precision Scale makes several types of trailing truck castings

Peter Smith, Memphis

[twhite]

 

Dr.Wayne--

That's a FABULOUS kit-bash on the Bachmann 4-8-2!  Can I ask you a question?  Where did you get the trailing truck casting?  I don't seem to be able to find one, and I'm in the midst of up-grading one of the Bachmann 4-8-2's. 

Just curious. 

Beautiful job! 

Tom

[twhite]

Great pictures! I just wish I could put my AC-12 on the front end of your PFE reefer block.

Peter Smith, Memphis

Peter:

Those PFE's were just MADE for AC cab-forwards, IMO.   Hmm, an AC-6 flat-face wouldn't look too shabby at the head of that block, either.

Tom

[doctorwayne]

Thanks, Mark.  To tell the truth, I'm undecided.   The loco was NYC when I got it, and saw a couple of versions of CPR (one involved using a mill file to remove the "coal" pile from the tender, for a conversion to oil burning), before ending up in the grey and green version.  The scratchbuilt tender followed, as the original was no longer suitable.

If I stay with the last roadname (my original free-lance road, but no longer modelled beyond a couple of locos and quite a bit of rolling stock), I may do it up in a style similar to this Bachmann Mountain:

I'd forego the modern-style front end, though, and skip the feedwater heater.  The engine will become the primary passenger power of my current free-lance road, and will represent a loco handed down from the original road, which I'm modelling as the "parent" road.  The tender will be the same as that of the Mountain, and a similar-style cab, a boiler tube pilot and the NYC-style turret shrouding, along with similar appliances should impart a "family" look.

Another option is to style it to more closely match locos of the road which I currently model: 

This would probably entail most of the changes of option one, but with a cab similar to the one shown on the Consolidation, and perhaps the modified tender.  I'm currently modifying two Bachmann Ten Wheelers with the same cabs, along with bigger boilers and piston valves, to more closely match the 2-8-0s, and I also have two Moguls that will get the same cab, plus piston valves.  With so much other loco conversion work to do, I'm hoping that my choices for the Pacific will become clearer as time goes by.   There are also two CNR N-2-bs and a DW&P N-2-a, all Consolidations, under construction, a 2-6-6-2 to be modified to fit on a 90' turntable, and a couple of TH&B locos, one a conversion and the other a scratchbuild (almost).

Wayne 

 

[marknewton]

Good point, and one that I overlooked.    I'll have to add some detail to that area when I get around to rebuilding mine.

Nice looking engine, Wayne. What are your plans for rebuilding her?

Mark.

[PASMITH]

This is a photo of the heaviest weathering I've yet done on one of my steamers, it's a Colorado and Southern 2-10-2 that is 'on loan' to my Rio Grande Sub to help with a motive power shortage for the duration of WWII.  Normally I use a light weathering, but I figured that this lady was far from home for a while and the Rio Grande shops wouldn't be too concerned about her 'cosmetics.'  It's done with Bragdon self-adhesive chalks, a Q-tip and a toothbrush.  And it's done AFTER I've sealed the model with Dull-Cote, not before. 

I really prefer to keep my locos 'lightly' weathered.  The Yuba River Sub is a 'good housekeeper', even though the locos are on the road most of the time. 

But it's strictly a personal thing

Tom

 

Great pictures! I just wish I could put my AC-12 on the front end of your PFE reefer block.

Peter Smith, Memphis

[twhite]

This is a photo of the heaviest weathering I've yet done on one of my steamers, it's a Colorado and Southern 2-10-2 that is 'on loan' to my Rio Grande Sub to help with a motive power shortage for the duration of WWII.  Normally I use a light weathering, but I figured that this lady was far from home for a while and the Rio Grande shops wouldn't be too concerned about her 'cosmetics.'  It's done with Bragdon self-adhesive chalks, a Q-tip and a toothbrush.  And it's done AFTER I've sealed the model with Dull-Cote, not before. 

I really prefer to keep my locos 'lightly' weathered.  The Yuba River Sub is a 'good housekeeper', even though the locos are on the road most of the time. 

But it's strictly a personal thing

Tom

 

[rs2mike]

Here is my 4-6-4 weathered with chalk and dullcote.  I start off with the light colors then go darker.  In between it gets a shot of dullcote to seal in the look I like.  This is still a work in progress.  A little at a time seems to work better for me.  I get time to think about what was done and then add or cover up as I see fit

[rs2mike]

Here is my 4-6-4 weathered with chalk and dullcote.  I start off with the light colors then go darker.  In between it gets a shot of dullcote to seal in the look I like.  This is still a work in progress.  A little at a time seems to work better for me.  I get time to think about what was done and then add or cover up as I see fit.

[hornblower]

Even locos that get great care become weathered over time.  I saw Santa Fe 3751 in May and was surprised to see that much of its formerly shiny black paint was getting rather dull and various water leaks had permanently damaged the paint quite a bit.  Add a coating of dirt over all of the lubricated running gear and 3751 looks like its still working in the 1950's.  Yes its been a few years since its repaint but we're talking about an oil burner that is stored under a giant car cover by a rather loving crew.  If such a pampered loco can become weathered, it would be reasonable to expect a "working" locomotive to get rather filthy.  For that reason, all of my locos get heavy weathering.  I find that the heavily weathered look hides whatever material the model is made of and is far more pleasing to my eye than a loco that looks like plastic that has come right out of the box.  I use the John Pryke weathering system and truly enjoy the results.

[cjcrescent]

You have recieved some excellent advice here.

I would just add one thing.

No steam loco, no matter how shiny or clean at the start of the run, stayed that way if it was a coal burner. My Dad was a fireman in the 1930's and he said they had to show up at the terminal several hours before their run to "polish" the engine. His engineer took great pride in having a clean loco to pull the small mixed train his engine was assigned to, and didn't think the wipers assigned to the job did a very good job.

Dad felt "redoing" what the wipers did was a waste of time, because by the time the loco left the engine terminal and arrived to pick up the passenger cars for the days run, the loco was covered with a fine coating of soot, despite Dad running a clean fire. The soot came from other locos at the terminal, as well as his.

At the end of the day depending on speed, coal quality, humidity, etc, things Dad called "atmospherics", the top of the loco could be almost black from the soot from burning coal. 

So all my locos at the very least get a light coating of "soot" on top.

Here a pic of a model of my Dad's loco. Notice the light soot layer on the loco.

 

[wedudler]

My friend Peter weathered this engine for me:

 

 He used dull cote, chalk and felt tip pens. And this way I've learnded from him and did with my Mike:

Wolfgang

[FastTracks]

Hi,

 I usually use a mix of techniques to dirty up a steam engine, but lately have preferred my airbrush and drybrush techniques.

 How dirty steam engines actually got is always a subject of controversy.  I have easily found examples of bright shiny engines, and very dirty engines.  My philosophy is that on any given day you would see both as engines got very dirty over the course of a single day and until they were wiped down by the apprentices, they were dirty.

I try to have examples of both on my layout as I feel this is a pretty realistic representation of a working railroad.  

The example below is showing a hard working engine that is quite dirty...

 

On my website I have a photo essay on the techniques used to weather this engine...

 

Link to Weathering a Steam Engine Post

Drop by and have a look.  Hope this is helpful!

 

[twhite]

Speaking of 'view-blocks', Cal-Scale puts out an ash-pan casting for model fireboxes that goes a long way to improve that big space between the firebox and trailing truck.  I've used it on a couple of my models and it fills in that space quite nicely. 

Dr. Wayne--I noticed you've got TWO Tomars on that handsome Pacific of yours.  Good idea--I've got a couple of older brass lokies that have worn the NS plating off of their drivers, I think I'll try that idea.  You can't have TOO many pickups, LOL!  Thanks for the idea. 

Tom

[doctorwayne]

Actually, she runs really well.  The motor is still the original, and the current draw is fairly low, although that's not too important, since I'm running DC.  I added pick-up shoes to improve the current collection, though, as the drivers are unplated brass.

As you can see in the second of my original photos of her, I'll be using a Bachmann tender to replace the scratchbuilt one shown in the first photo.  

I've had the loco since the late '50s, when my Dad bought it second hand.  He replaced some of the zinc siderods with brass ones (zincpest also got the original trailing truck) and also fabricated some of the valve gear parts that were missing or broken in the original Central Valley add-on kit. 

Wayne 

[Autobus Prime]

.....The old John English 2-8-2 and 4-6-2 had a narrowed rear frame that sat down in the middle of the trailing truck and worked pretty similarly to your view blocks. I have the hulk of one which I use for traction tests.

Good point, and one that I overlooked.    I'll have to add some detail to that area when I get around to rebuilding mine.  Here she is "before":

 

And here she is in her current condition:

Wayne 

drw:

Quite a nice loco. It's a pity Bowser or somebody never snarfed up the tooling. I seem to recall from RMR discussions that Lionel got it, butchered it, and most likely scrapped it. It's got a DC60 motor, right? How well does it run?

[doctorwayne]

.....The old John English 2-8-2 and 4-6-2 had a narrowed rear frame that sat down in the middle of the trailing truck and worked pretty similarly to your view blocks. I have the hulk of one which I use for traction tests.

Good point, and one that I overlooked.    I'll have to add some detail to that area when I get around to rebuilding mine.  Here she is "before":

 

And here she is in her current condition:

Wayne 

[Autobus Prime]

For those of you who don't know what we're talking about, one of the major visual problems with ALL steam models, brass or plastic, is the large amount of open air between the bottom of the firebox and the trailing truck on larger steam.

or:
Just to be difficult, let me point out the one exception I can think of offhand. The old John English 2-8-2 and 4-6-2 had a narrowed rear frame that sat down in the middle of the trailing truck and worked pretty similarly to your view blocks. I have the hulk of one which I use for traction tests.

[orsonroy]

By the way, Ray, I got those frame extensions installed on the Athearn Mikes - not too visible once painted, but it looks a lot better than all the daylight that used to be visible there.  Thanks for the idea.  

Glad to be of help Wayne. You've given me enough bright ideas for my own steam projects over the years!

For those of you who don't know what we're talking about, one of the major visual problems with ALL steam models, brass or plastic, is the large amount of open air between the bottom of the firebox and the trailing truck on larger steam. The trailing truck is there to support the weight of the large firebox, and because of that there's no clear space between the two parts. Unfortunately, 99% of the steam models out there don't have ANYTHING on the model to sugges that the truck is doing it's job.

Notice that you can see all the way thorugh to the other side of the engine. NOT a good thing, no matter if you're a proto modeler or freelancer!

Notice that on a real steam engine, there's nothing but steel between the firebox and trailing truck. This visual problem can be fixed very easily, by adding a view block under the firebox. It doesn't have to be anything fancy; a couple of chunks of scrap styrene painted flat black will do just fine. I tend to dress mine up a bit, but that's because I like to detail engines:

My frame extensions are just strips of .125"x.188" Evergreen strip styrene, cut to match the contours of the model engine's frame. With a little added detail (steam can never have TOO many details; it's one of steam's charms) you can add a lot of inexpensive realism to any model.

My plan is to add these extensions to ALL of my steam with trailing trucks, whether they're plastic, pot metal or brass imports. I'm working on three brass USRA light Mikes now, and am about done "imagineering" my way through an effective, and highly realistic, add on light baffle.