I didn't want to hijack the other WS thread here so here goes:
Anybody ever get severely disappointed in the lack of quality and thoroughness that goes into (or doesn't) of WS products? Through the years I've purchase various things - ground foam, scenic cement, accent pieces, scene kits, etc. Okay, most of us know the scenic cement is nothing more than white glue/water mix and that their sprayer leaves something to be desired. What gets my goat is the castings in their accent piece gatherings. Not very well done with a lack of definition and a lot of flash to be cleaned off. And I've seen it throughout the years, so it's not like a bad run or something like that.
Another thing: in this day and age of laser cut kit parts, why do they still insist in the bag of sticks method of buiulding parts. Now don't get me wrong; for the most part I don't mind building something that way. What I'm talking about is this: I have the Memorial Park scene. Amongst things that are to be built is a covered picnic pavillion. What they have you build out of sticks are the roof support trusses. True, they do give you a template, but try and cut and fit and glue together all those little pieces. It's all butt joints. Granted it's HO and only a model, but you'll not get any strength in this structure from their assembly method. The assembly sheet for this model is available as a pdf on their website. It's like building a multi-level house of cards - it can be done, and will look pretty, but don't dare sneeze anywheres near it.
Craftsman-type kits I like if well engineered. Kits with built-in frustrations like this I can't abide by.
de N2MPU Jack
Proud NRA Life Member and supporter of the 2nd. Amendment
God, guns, and rock and roll!
Modeling the NYC/NYNH&H in HO and CPRail/D&H in N
I have to agree with you for the most part. When in HO, I built their Pharmacy kit. With a lot of filing it looked okay until assembly time the front wall casting was curvedand although I managed to straighten it without breaking it. It was a challenge. In the end it was a nice building.
Dave
A bad WS models are lightyears ahead of the Airfix's I built back in the 80's. Compared to those the worst cast models are a dream. In all honesty WS models don't bother me. The amount of flash is inconsiquential to over all model and the curvature of the model may not have anything to do with the casting, but rather shipping and storage.
As for the bag of sticks method, why should they change? The process is cheap, it's paid for, and it has worked for the past decade or more. Why should I change, if I don't see a drop in sales of said model?
I haven't "participated" in this type of model before, even though I have two craftsman kits waiting for me to stop procrastinating....it's amazing how patient they can be.
Anyway, the last poster is quite right in my view. We shouldn't forget that the heavy majority of purchasers of these sometimes costly kits, and/or merely challenging ones, are older modelers who don't mind the extra work, and who consider the shaping and tweaking and problem-solving part of their modeling experience and fun. If it were merely shake-the-box and apply five beads of glue to get a nice new model, these folks and their payments wouldn't be interested. In fact, some of them wouldn't be able to afford kits that were substantially "improved" in quality such that they were easy and quick to assemble. Their labour and pleasure are what "complete" the model for them, if that trite line doesn't make you gag (sorry).
If someone had to be paid an honest wage, even overseas, to clean up and square off everything that appeared in a freshly opened craftsman kit, the cost would go up for that labour, plus the distributor's cut, and then the dealer's...maybe another $15/kit isn't out of the question.
Just my two cents.
It took me two days (of modeling time) of filing and fitting to get this one cleaned up enough to paint and assemble:
Note the crooked chimney. That's their casting, not my building. Could have fixed it if I wanted to mess with it anymore.. WS is a piker when it comes to pita to build kits however. Try a structure made out of Resin..
It's workable
but there's a LOT of filing, sanding, and fitting to be done. Sometimes you even have to heat them in an oven to get them flat. The bottom two photos are (SP?) Magneson (SS LTD) kits BTW.
I've only built two of the WS metal kits--the little Flagstop station and a D-8 Caterpillar, and I will say that after cleaning the flash off, the castings went together rather nicely. I didn't use White Glue, as they suggested, but rather gap-filling CA. But as an 'old-timer' who used to spend hours cleaning the flash off of the old Ulrich and Roundhouse metal car kits, that didn't bother me too much.
Though I've heard complaints about their castings being 'curved' and difficult to deal with, I guess I was lucky with my two kits--the castings were nice and flat and after cleaning and painting, they went together in no time.
Seems to be the 'luck of the draw' with these kits, I suppose.
Tom
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
My main gripe with them is I've purchased 2 WS stone portals and both arrives in pieces due to lack of packing in the box. The flashing their metal products does seem to be excessive.Do they even sell their metal tree armatures anymore?? Lately, all I see are shiny plastic ones.
jecorbett wrote:As it is, you get the same quality of kit that was offered back in the 1970s
The irony is, I have some unassembled or unpainted WS stuff that might date to the '70's. The bottom of the junk box is apparently the perfect environment for growing 55 gallon drums. There's certainly more of them there than I ever bought.
"I am lapidary but not eristic when I use big words." - William F. Buckley
I haven't been sleeping. I'm afraid I'll dream I'm in a coma and then wake up unconscious. -Stephen Wright
selector wrote: We shouldn't forget that the heavy majority of purchasers of these sometimes costly kits, and/or merely challenging ones, are older modelers who don't mind the extra work, and who consider the shaping and tweaking and problem-solving part of their modeling experience and fun.
We shouldn't forget that the heavy majority of purchasers of these sometimes costly kits, and/or merely challenging ones, are older modelers who don't mind the extra work, and who consider the shaping and tweaking and problem-solving part of their modeling experience and fun.
Selector,
My theory is that most of these kits never see assembly and are sitting on shelves and in boxes. I think that the idea of building a craftsman kit is more appealing to lots of modelers than actually sitting down and building the kit. I've only got about six boxes full...and I do build them occasionally.
In all fairness to these persons, the kits can be quite intimidating if you are used to shake the box kits (look at all those tiny parts). I think the same kits will circulate among modelers for many years, unbuilt.
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
Grampys--
Oboy, I bet someone else got the kit with two LEFT tracks, LOL! If they contacted WS, I'll bet there's someone in the Packaging Dept with a really red face. But I like what you did with it. I've got mine in storage, until I can use it for line-cutting on a forest fire scene I plan on installing--someday--