$500 layout

[hminky]

I thought the track plan would drive most people out of the hobby after being bored by the lack of operational potential. I am building a 4x8 in On30 and believe with that my layout will have less than $500 invested in the end.

http://www.pacificcoastairlinerr.com/

Just a thought
Harold

[on30francisco]

I thought it was a good starter layout. It's enough to whet one's appetite for model railroading without investing a lot of time and money. The paper buildings leave a lot to be desired but they're better than nothing and can be replaced with better structures in the future. The track plan as well as the layout can always be incorporated into a larger layout in the future. The rolling stock can also be upgraded in the future if so desired but I believe they should have used higher quality rolling stock (Athern, MDC), and locos. Nothing can turn a person off of model railroading faster than poor quality, bad running equipment.

[FJ and G]

for $500, you could have gotten a bigger layout in the same space with N-scale track.

I got started again in model trains with a Greatest Layouts article 4 or 5 years ago that had a layout going around a coffee table; divided into 4 scenes; was an O scale trolley.

I made a coffee table for myself in HO but made mine a double decker with a mine below and four seasons above.

I hadn't played with trains for 30 years but that got me started as it was simple, inexpensive and innovative.

The turtle creek layout didn't really inspire me; tho it wasn't too bad

[Fergmiester]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Eriediamond

Ok people, after reading the past replies to this $500 layout, I've got some thoughts and comments to throw out here. I thought they did a pretty good job with it myself. I feel it's purpose was to show that a whole lot of money is not needed to get started in this hobby and what can be done with that train set from Santa and they accomplished that. The feathers on this old rooster get ruffled when I hear comments like layouts like that hurt the hobby, or that paper buildings don't cut it. There are a lot of families out here struggling to make ends meet and still provide good interests for their kids and themselves as well. It's pretty sad when the enjoyment we get from something is determined by how much it costs. I'm still trying to figure out how a layout like that is hurting the hobby. Are we to publish a rule book and issue tests to determin if one is illigable to begin model railroading? Do we set standards of track plans to be followed? Do I model the same as when I started? Of coarse not. A throw back to the 50's? No, it was just an artical to show an inexpesive way to build a small layout on a tight budget. They still teach that 2+2=4 in grade school, but they did that in the 50's also. Is it wrong to have an oval of track? If it is, then there are a lot of manufactures ouy there selling an awfull lot of wrong train sets. In closing, I want all to know, this reply was not meant as a flame to anyone. If I've ruffled some feathers so to speak, so be it, I make no apologies for my reply here, I just disagree with some of the comments is all.

Oops! Maybe I should be the one to apolagize as I forget the cost of a turnout does have the habit of jacking up the price.

I hear stories of people getting involved by building the simple oval and becoming quickly disapointed due to the boredom factor. I was given two layouts from two people for that simple reason. My benifit, their lose. My kids are a perfect example of "Dad what's the point the train is going round in circles".

[MACKINACMAC]

My opinion is that any layout built is a good layout.

I didn't say the best or the greatest, but lets face it, none of the layouts featured in MR are liked by everyone. I'm sure that you could offer many suggestions to "improve" any one of them to suit YOUR needs. Just as there are billions of people on this earth, there are billions of ideas & ways to build a layout. If the MR article doesn't suit your taste, where did it say "YOU HAVE TO BUILD THIS LAYOUT THIS WAY OR ELSE". Simply make what ever changes you'd like.

The point is that someone or group built something themselves. Everyone who has built a layout of any kind should be proud of their accomplishments and show it to everyone interested. After all for $ 500.00 the article could have easily said to BUY A COMPUTER AND A TRAIN SIM SOFTWARE, HOOK IT ALL UP AND RUN YOUR TRAINS.

Don't get me wrong, I like the train simulators very much but nothing is better than building it yourself. And that's all this article was trying to do, offer AN idea on how to build a layout. Kudos to MR.

[Anonymous]

Go for it OTN!!

[Anonymous]

OK, I'll take the chalenge. when I build my layout I will try to do it under $500. I already have a doodle bug and a GP7 but my plan is a little more intinse on turnouts( $$$$ ) so that should make up for it. I'll tell you if I acomplish it !

[BNSFNUT]

I think the layout was ok to get peaple started in the hobby. My first couple of layouts were not much more complex.
As for the paper buildings they are ok intill you can replace them with better kits. I had a copy of the plans for a building pasted on a cardboad for a sturcture that I had to scratchbuild. I worked intill I could invest the 20 man hrs in building it. I have used 3x5 cards with the industry name printed on it to mark the spot intil I could build the kit.
Any thing that gets peaple into the hobby is good. Getting the trains up and running quickly is the sure way to get the new hobbiest hooked.
I think doing somthing for low cost is a good way for a beginer to get started and shows that you do not need to spend $100+ for a locomotive to see if you will even like the hobby in the long run
After 43 yrs in the hobby (longer if you count the 12 yrs with Lionel) I have seen to many peaple leave the hobby because they tried to build a layout that was beyond the skills they had or took to long to get the trains running.
The trick seems to be start simple and work up as skills grow, that way the hobby stays fresh.
OK, I will get of my soap box now.

[Anonymous]

I think what is more damaging to "the hobby" is having people who have been doing it for years and counting rivets the whole time scoff at new people who really have no idea of the possibilities of "the hobby".
Yes modeling the prototype down to the last little weld mark from a photo in some obscure company photo you found at a swap meet, and using waybills and a big ol switching yard is fun for someone who has been doing this for a while, but for someone who feels pretty happy about just getting a train set and some extra track for his/her 4x8 layout it may be a bit daunting.
And if the attitude towards beginners is that you must model absolutely correctly and so forth I don't think you're gonna get a whole lot of takers.
A layout for under 500 bucks that someone can build and enjoy no matter how it's put together can only serve to further "the hobby" . Sure running trains in an oval over and over can get boring (to some folks I guess) but hey it's a start in the right direction. And the person who wants to pursue "the hobby" can only grow from there.

So far as a newbie I have learned a lot just hanging out here and a few other places, and looking at pics of other layouts I have something to aspire to as I practice on my little 4x8 layout .

[GerFust]

I was a little disappointed myself. It wasn't the quality that got me, though. That is a matter of taste. What surprised me is how productive the $500 was (or wasn't). Maybe I need to go back and re-read the article, but at the time I couldn't get his expenses to add up to $500.

I hope to do more than what was accomplished in the article with even less cash ($200-300). Of course, I already have the rolling stock, but it's stuff from the 70s when I was a kid. Some real thirfty shopping can yield some fine model kits that are a good base to start with.

Of course, I wanted to pitch the "Layout for under $300" idea to MR myself. They beat me to it.

-Jer

[Anonymous]

[#ditto] Ken

The article was well done.

[Eriediamond]

Ok people, after reading the past replies to this $500 layout, I've got some thoughts and comments to throw out here. I thought they did a pretty good job with it myself. I feel it's purpose was to show that a whole lot of money is not needed to get started in this hobby and what can be done with that train set from Santa and they accomplished that. The feathers on this old rooster get ruffled when I hear comments like layouts like that hurt the hobby, or that paper buildings don't cut it. There are a lot of families out here struggling to make ends meet and still provide good interests for their kids and themselves as well. It's pretty sad when the enjoyment we get from something is determined by how much it costs. I'm still trying to figure out how a layout like that is hurting the hobby. Are we to publish a rule book and issue tests to determin if one is illigable to begin model railroading? Do we set standards of track plans to be followed? Do I model the same as when I started? Of coarse not. A throw back to the 50's? No, it was just an artical to show an inexpesive way to build a small layout on a tight budget. They still teach that 2+2=4 in grade school, but they did that in the 50's also. Is it wrong to have an oval of track? If it is, then there are a lot of manufactures ouy there selling an awfull lot of wrong train sets. In closing, I want all to know, this reply was not meant as a flame to anyone. If I've ruffled some feathers so to speak, so be it, I make no apologies for my reply here, I just disagree with some of the comments is all.

[Anonymous]

Hmm $500 for a starter layout seems like a good baseline. I think the point of the layout was to show what you could do with limited materials. Show that you can use alternative materials i.e. paper buildings. Are they convicning to an experienced modeler? No of course not but watch a 5 year use a bottle of balast as a water tower and you understand who the intended audience.

Of everyone kid will tell you that all layouts have mountians and tunnels on them just ask .


DT

[Anonymous]

I havent seen this layout that is being discussed, but as these post seem to imply, the modeler didnt get much bang for his buck.

personally because i have very few funds to work with, i serch for bargans. If i had $500 to put into my 4x8 HO model, it would be one worth publishing.

For a begginer, best way to start is an a 4x8 sheet of pli wood, but that can be ratther expensive for some, but you would be surprised what some family members have hanging around (my inch thick peace of pli wood came from a junk pile, was in excellent shape, and all i did was every 2 feet add a 2x4 across to add strenght to they pliwood. My dad and myself built legs out of 2x4 that we found also in that pile. We had to do some sanding, and sawing, but overall it was a good looking sturdy structure, built for the price of nothing.

Track, i find that at train shows you can usually find some good deals on older track. i picked up a box with used flex track approx 100 feet of it for $20. The problem comes when you want to add switch tracks, i find atlas code 100 #4 switch is good for myself, because on a 4x8 sheet of pli wood, there isnt room for lets say a #8. Its best to buy these brand new, if your lucky you will get them on sale, but for me they are $20 dollars a peice at a local hobby store, 3 left, and 3 right hand switches can give a begginer many possibilitys. so $120 approx for switches.

Scenery, At my local hobby store, scenery that you have to build yourself is fairly cheap, to cover a 4x8 layout grass, balast, trees, and shrubs, will probably run you about $40-$60 dollors, and occasionally at hobby shows you can find such items in bargan bins, and save yourself more money. I find the best way to creat hills, is to use styrafoam blocks and cut them to a shape that i like. then use just white glue, water, and detergent mixture to apply scenery, most people are willing to just give them to you, and in my case there was lots laying around my home.

Buildings, i know many manufacturers offer kits, and also prefabe kitbash structure kits. At my local hobby store i could pick up enough building materials to create a small town for approx $60

Trains, the most important feature on the layout. for a begginer, it is best to go to a hobby store and buy a new engine, but this can be rather expensive, especially if you are looking for a steam engine. my advice is to go to a hobby show, i found an atlas gp-9, with a can motor, all wheel pickup and drive for $30, and even though my track isnt the greatest do to moving, the engine runs flawless on my tracks, and is able to pull 15 free rolling cars.

Rolling Stock, Although you usually can buy a good train set with 7 cars, and an oval of track for $140 dollars, usually the engin is garbage, and can only pull half of your rolling stock (has been my experience), usually at a hobby show you can find these same cars for $5 dollars each. and at that price 7 cars will run you $35 dollars maybe $45 if you go for cars that are more detailed.

All prices are Canadian and from my local area, of southern New Brunswick. For myself i can approximately put an estimate down of $335 canadian dollars, to have a nice begginer layout, even if you had to buy your benchwork, i imagin that you would be very near the $500 dollar cut off line, maybe over it depending on wear you go.

Finally, If your a begginer modeler, go to hobby shows, they offer great deals, and the majority of the perticepents are willing and able to lend a hand, 9 times out of ten there are areas wear people can get tips on aspects of the hobby, and help you with getting started, pick up a copy of MR it us chalk full of helpfull tidbits, and stick with it!

[Jetrock]

and a final thought...like drugs, they'll start out with harmless stuff like this, and then graduate to THE HARD STUFF!

Feels good, huh? Watching the trains go round and round?

What's that? It doesn't give you the same buzz it used to? Well hey pally, if you're ready to graduate to some REAL kicks, try a hit of this here scratchbuilding...or just taste a dose of this here card-order operation!

What's that? Oh, no, man, I don't think you could handle that stuff yet...stay away from the Proto:87 my man. That stuff's for my *ahem* specialty clientele. You'd OD on that stuff in a minute...

[Jetrock]

I'm very into structures myself, and don't care for the paper structures at all. They might be suitable in the very short-term if I had to have some sort of diorama done on short notice and could later go back and replace them with real buildings, either kits or scratchbuilt.

True, the $500 layout isn't really that satisfying for an experienced modeler--but that isn't its intended audience! It's a sort of thought experiment, and a way to get inexperienced modelers into the hobby for a relatively small investment. New modelers don't freak out about realistic track planning or operation and still think that just running the train around in a circle is loads of fun--and, frankly, MR's focus is the beginning model railroader these days!

One other thing to consider--a new railroader who builds this $500 layout and then decides he wants more will be less hesitant to start from scratch if his initial outlay wasn't that much to begin with...it's just a way to get 'em hooked, they'll come back for more before too long!!

[Fergmiester]

I sometimes wonder if these simple oval layouts do more to hurt the hobby than good. Trains going around a circle becomes boring very quickly and I can see many becoming disillusioned very quickly unless you have a bit of diversity and lots of interactiveness. There are some great 4X8 layouts out there, What makes them great is that they have all kinds of possibilities. such as tunnels, cuts, turnouts, up and overs, etc

You have to keep people captivated if you are to keep them interested.

[cp1057]

It sure seems like the $500 got eaten up fast. It's too bad the hobby is getting so pricey without enough lower priced alternatives.

I like what one of the other posts said about Blue Box kits by Athearn. It's an inexpensive way to build up your rolling stock collection.

Personally I can't see the point of a trackplan without some kind of runaround track. Without that, operations and switching are really limited.

The paper buildings are a good start to provide basic scenery on a budget. When I came into the hobby I found that the Design Preservation storefronts were excellent low cost structures. They aren't that hard to pain if you're slow and patient.

Charles
Hillsburgh Ont

[Anonymous]

I thought it wasn't too bad - agreed, the buildings were a bit unconvincing, and I would have used Peco track (cheaper than roadbed track, leaving you more ca***o spend on other parts), but generally I thought it was OK. I might well have used a different source for the loco and cars, such as buying them as "Blue box" kits and building them, which would probably bring the cost down.

[Anonymous]

In point of fact $500 isn't much money to build an A-Z layout in a short timeframe and involve the kids. I would grade it highly on accomplishing what it set out to do.

Here is a proposal for what Einstein called 'a thought experiment'...anyone care to propose a more personally satisfying layout for an initial outlay of $500? I'm a scratcher and basher but I don't think I could bring it in under $500 and be satisfied with the result.

Any takers?

Randy

[Anonymous]

Little tip about wood for benchwork. Home Depot has a cart laying around the store with misc. pre cut wood. Most of it is 2x4 around 4 ft in length at 51 cents each. Much cheaper than buying an 8ft board at $2.49!!! I liked the layout it was simple and basic. You could greatly expand on it if you wanted to. The paper buildings looked good at a distance and gave room for thought on possible uses i.e. background structures maybe. The fact they showed kids building it was a big point.

RMax

[AggroJones]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BRAKIE

Frankly I thought that layout had NO REAL VALUE. You see its no more then a glorified train set set up..Surely they could have none better.I truly doubt if any serious modeler from years ago would even bother to look more then once at it.

I'm gonna agree with you here. I think they could have gotten a higher quality small layout out of that $500.

[IRONROOSTER]

I thought it was an excellent starter layout. My first layout used brass track and a Tyco train set on a 4x8 sheet of plywood. I had only 3 structures (all from Atlas). Sure I'm a more sophisticated model railroader now, but you know I had as much fun starting out as I do now. But if I had, had to spend more to start, I might never have got into this hobby. The thing about a starter layout, is that it gets you going. Then you can start upgrading - better buildings, more cars, etc. $500 is still alot of money for someone to commit to a hobby just to find out if they will like it. Raise the entrance fee and we'll have a lot fewer new modelers. i say good job MR.
Enjoy
Paul

[BRAKIE]

Frankly I thought that layout had NO REAL VALUE. You see its no more then a glorified train set set up..Surely they could have none better.I truly doubt if any serious modeler from years ago would even bother to look more then once at it.
I thought the Tuttle Creek Central was a big joke but, this $500.00 layout is far worst then TCC.

[CP5415]

It's not bad for $500 US.
Just a basic table top for those who are getting started into the hobby.

Gordon

[Anonymous]

It looks bland.

[Hawks05]

it helped a lot. that was what convinced my dad to let me get started seeing that i didn't need to spend hundreds of dollars. heck the wood for my benchwork was $44 or so. i still need to get either homasote or the foam stuff.

the layout doesn't look to bad. i don't plan to copy it at all but it will be helpful to see how to do differen things.

[Anonymous]

I didn't like how the buildings were paper.

[CNJ831]

In all honesty, this layout is a throwback to the kind of thing you saw in MR 50 or more years ago and falls far short of what I'd think the expectations of most new hobbyists are today. Paper buildings might be acceptable if half hidden in the background but as your primary structures they just don't float. I won't even bother to comment on the scenery.

As to the trackplan, with the space allotted, there isn't a whole lot more you can do, especially on a very limited budget. Even just adding a passing siding would have started to jam things up.

Overall, $500 is just not a realistic figure these days to spend, even on a first layout (except perhaps for something like a modest shelf layout).

CNJ831