Hehehe. After beating my head against a wall for the last 6 months or so, trying to convince myself that a prototypical roster of late steam B&O locos and equipment was possible in N, i decided to give myself a break and work on some NS dash 9s. I had a couple already, but decided making a few with road numbers NOT offered by athearn would be nice (the diesels will probably just live in a display case for now, i dont have room for any layout really, in N or HO, so i want a few detailed models)
Is HO always this easy? In 10 minutes, i was able to order decal sheets from Microscale and a couple undecorated dash 9s, and i am preparing to get new headlights, grilles, grab irons and railings to do some superdetailing...and they are all available?!?
This could be addictive. Deciding what i want to make, and then simply ordering it...i suppose it is made doubly easy by the huge number of C44-9Ws, both in the prototype world and the model world, but wow...just wow. This is a pleasant change of pace, i gotta say! The NS horse is making my steamers nervous....
Tim
"Rust, whats not to love?"
Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running BearSpace Mouse for president!15 year veteran fire fighterCollector of Apple //e'sRunning Bear EnterprisesHistory Channel Club life member.beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam
Marlon
See pictures of the Clinton-Golden Valley RR
HO is too easy.
You want a real challenge, try Sn3 or Nn3.
If you enjoy building detailed models for display you should try a variety of scales. Some of the work done in O scale is very very good when it comes to detailing. See this site for pictures http://www.proto48.org/
Enjoy
Paul
If you are a craftsman who likes to build/kitbash detailed models of rolling stock, you can assemble an eclectic conglomeration of exquisite pieces in a variety of scales and track gauges, from 1:4 live steam to NNN. If, OTOH, your object is to assemble a roster which will eventually find a home on an operating model railroad, you will need to make a choice of scale and stick with it - and probably with a choice of track gauge and prototype as well.
When detailing rolling stock, the larger the scale, the easier it is to approach perfection. OTOH, ready-to-purchase detail parts get more expensive as they get bigger. Also, various manufacturers seem to have concentrated their main efforts in the 'popular' scales - don't expect to find SR&RL steam fittings in Q scale at your LHS. Unless you want to cast and finish your own, you will find the widest variety in HO scale. Sad, but there it is.
The key point? Don't envy the HO guys. Join them.
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - in 1:80 scale)
Ah yes... HO. 85' passenger cars careening around 18" radius curves, trains maxing out at 10 cars... Factories barely larger than the boxcars calling on them... So much to love.
Sure there's more challenge to N scale, but that's why I prefer it.
Lee
Route of the Alpha Jets www.wmrywesternlines.net
2-8-8-0 wrote: ...Is HO always this easy? In 10 minutes, i was able to order decal sheets from Microscale and a couple undecorated dash 9s, and i am preparing to get new headlights, grilles, grab irons and railings to do some superdetailing...and they are all available?!?...
...Is HO always this easy? In 10 minutes, i was able to order decal sheets from Microscale and a couple undecorated dash 9s, and i am preparing to get new headlights, grilles, grab irons and railings to do some superdetailing...and they are all available?!?...
It's not always as easy as you've experienced, but it's good to hear you had a successful hunt. Depending on what you're looking to model, there will be times when certain details or decals or whatnot will be hard to find. This is becoming more true since the new RTR models being produced are as well detailed out the box as a model that was superdetailed with after market parts (not a complaint, but merely an observation). Good to hear you're gonna have fun doing some dash 9's. Don't forget to post some pics of your projects, good luck.
TONY
"If we never take the time, how can we ever have the time." - Merovingian (Matrix Reloaded)
wm3798 wrote: Ah yes... HO. 85' passenger cars careening around 18" radius curves, trains maxing out at 10 cars... Factories barely larger than the boxcars calling on them... So much to love.Sure there's more challenge to N scale, but that's why I prefer it.Lee
To a regular reader of Tetsudo Mokei Shumi, it seems to me that the major challenge to the Japanese N-scaler is trying to see how much of downtown Tokyo can be crammed into a space the size of a 2-suit suitcase. If anyone can explain why 85 foot cars on 18" radius in HO is worse/more preposterous than 20 meter cars on 200mm radius in Nj (1:150,) I will listen carefully (and I promise not to laugh...)
My 20 meter cars don't look wonderful on 610mm radius curves, but they do look prototypical. As for the industries, the answer is simple - pick a prototype that uses smaller box cars.
I have the best of both worlds - a scale big enough to SEE, and freight cars about the same length as N-scale 50-footers. I also have a garage, not a suitcase.
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - in HOj, 1:80 scale)
I have quite few HO models old and new, I use them as sources to build comparable S scale models, then I flip them for some cash. Now HO looks too small to me. For a true experience try Proto 64, a scratchbuilders/kitbashers delight and only 10% larger then HO but correctly guaged. Truely, I don't envy other scales, the satisfaction of uniqueness is the best reward..
Glad you had a rewarding experience.
Dave
Modeling the mighty SP in the golden age of steam..
Tjsingle wrote:HO has such a range of products it makes my head spin, like i dont like N scale its not detailed enough for me.
Now I'm starting to envy the On30 guys with all the detail they can add and still keep the track plan space manageable.
2-8-8-0 wrote: Is HO always this easy?
The real beauty of HO is that a no-talent hack like me with no particularly refined modeling skills can still accumulate vast quantities of items that see little or no layout time but still match the road road you're modeling, or at least the era.
Jim
"I am lapidary but not eristic when I use big words." - William F. Buckley
I haven't been sleeping. I'm afraid I'll dream I'm in a coma and then wake up unconscious. -Stephen Wright
N scale, like any scale, is as detailed as you choose to make it. I have several cars with free-standing grab irons in N scale (one I built myself). You can detail an N scale loco to the nines; I know, I've done it.
On the other hand, if you don't care as much about detail, N scale lets you get away with less.
I would suggest, though, that my painted, ballasted, and weathered N scale track is more detailed than, say, your HO EZ track... <---[/good-natured ribbing]
Modeling the Rio Grande Southern First District circa 1938-1946 in HOn3.
Dave Vollmer wrote: Tjsingle wrote:HO has such a range of products it makes my head spin, like i dont like N scale its not detailed enough for me.N scale, like any scale, is as detailed as you choose to make it. I have several cars with free-standing grab irons in N scale (one I built myself). You can detail an N scale loco to the nines; I know, I've done it.On the other hand, if you don't care as much about detail, N scale lets you get away with less.I would suggest, though, that my painted, ballasted, and weathered N scale track is more detailed than, say, your HO EZ track... <---[/good-natured ribbing]
Ok dave you win this round
:D
tjsingle
Tjsingle wrote: Dave Vollmer wrote: Tjsingle wrote:HO has such a range of products it makes my head spin, like i dont like N scale its not detailed enough for me.N scale, like any scale, is as detailed as you choose to make it. I have several cars with free-standing grab irons in N scale (one I built myself). You can detail an N scale loco to the nines; I know, I've done it.On the other hand, if you don't care as much about detail, N scale lets you get away with less.I would suggest, though, that my painted, ballasted, and weathered N scale track is more detailed than, say, your HO EZ track... <---[/good-natured ribbing]Ok dave you win this round :Dtjsingle
Dave Vollmer wrote: N scale, like any scale, is as detailed as you choose to make it. I have several cars with free-standing grab irons in N scale (one I built myself). You can detail an N scale loco to the nines; I know, I've done it.
If you have the eyesight and dexterity...
loathar wrote: Dave Vollmer wrote: N scale, like any scale, is as detailed as you choose to make it. I have several cars with free-standing grab irons in N scale (one I built myself). You can detail an N scale loco to the nines; I know, I've done it. If you have the eyesight and dexterity...
Yes, but my point is that it's a function of the modeler and not the scale.
Ahh, the Crazy O Scaler is about to speak.....
(a hush falls over the Forum and he brushes off cobwebs, stirrs an All-Nation from it's long slumber, and a handlayed #12 curved turnout grumbles to life...)
The availability of almost anything and everything is what made me leave HO scale many moons ago. I wanted a challenge, as well as to be looked down upon at shows. "Do you have an O scale, please sir have ypu any?" would be the plainitive query.
"No" would be the reply, with a quick addition of "I don't play with toy trains! Be gone!"
Patiently, the Intrepid O scale would persist, explaining the O scale had a Proud History, with the Names of Armstrong, and NYSME such Illustrous Manufacturers as Adams and Son, All-Nation, Baldwin Model Loco Works, General Models Corporation, and Yes, Even Walthers and Atheran!
A scant few would show Pity on Our Hero, showing him a couple forlorn AHM/Rivarossi C-Liners, Old Atlas F-9s, and a plethora of U.S. Hobbies diesels, who's cold solder joints had long given up their hold on reality, parts now safely ensconsed in Ziploc baggies.
Then, coming over the four color pages of the press was the Savior of O Scale! In the Darkest Days of the 1980s, Bob Weaver gave the O scale side of the hobby what the rest of the World craved, an Alco RS-3!!!!
No Longer would O scalers be condemmened to Old Stuff. Gleaming (well, it fits this very Tounge in Cheek commentary) RS-3s, FA-2s, PS-1 boxcars, Cylindrical Hoppers, 2 Bay Hoppers, Offset Side Hoppers, Northeastern Stlye Cabeese, rolled forth from Northumberland Pa. and on to layouts everywhere!
There was again Joy in O scale Mudville!
(Seriously, I switched from HO to O in the 1980s. A gift of a Bev-Bel Conrail caboose for out second Christmas together sealed the deal.
Yes, I miss being able to gather everything for a nice layout, but there is a certain challenge in O scale that I would not give up for all the BLI or Kato technowonders in the world. When you hear slack running in and out of a long train of Kadee equipped cars, the growl of steel wheels on nickle silver rail, and yes, I even get some flange squeal O scale is the way to go at least for me.
Even thought there is some bickering from the 3 rail crowd, I have to admit, the upswing of "Hi-Rail" or Scaleplate if you prefer has raised the amount of stuff available for O scale. On30 also has a large part to play in this upswing.
O scale does not HAVE to be huge. My planned home layout is going to reside in a 13X36 side of the basement. Sure, I can't run a B&O EM-1 2-8-8-4, or for that matter a WM I-2 2-10-0, but for the most part, big stuff never trod the coal gathering branches of the Allegehinies. I'm content with RS-3s, F units, GP-35/38/40s with an occasional visit from an SD-35.)
Having said his peace, the crusty, cranky, olde O scaler settles back in his corner, back to his Forge, Anvil, and Walther's passenger car kits...
loathar wrote: Tjsingle wrote:HO has such a range of products it makes my head spin, like i dont like N scale its not detailed enough for me. Now I'm starting to envy the On30 guys with all the detail they can add and still keep the track plan space manageable.
Well said, Bob.
When I left HO for N, I thought I would lament the challenge of the reduced availability of products.
Quite the contrary; I found the challenge enjoyable and fulfilling. I never would have attempted to kitbash PRR steam in HO; you can get it ready to run from BLI or in kit form from Bowser.
No, N scale isn't for everyone, and I don't advocate it in every case. But some of the arguments raised against N in favor of HO (i.e., less detailed, more expensive, can't do dumpty-dump, etc.) are exaggerated.
Dave, my sons are in the smaller scales, one in the Air Force, is an N scaler, the elder is in the Army, he's in HO, and I still do some modeling in the smaller scales, as well as dabbling in S, and (better sit down as this one still exists) TT!
Each scale has pluses and minuses. For the mass of O scale, I'm giving up the ability to run nearly prototypical length consists that are available in N scale.
As for the dollar figure, well, HO seems to be catching O scale as far as the dollar amount per item. One big advantage HO has over O:
One can sneak a locomotive past the home's Entry Sentry (read: wife) in HO, whereas the same O scale locomotive is "unsneakable"!
As Paul mentioned, 1-1/2 scale 7.25 gauge (Hernia Scale, I love it!) must be IMPOSSABLE to get past the Finance Dept.!
Hah! You've stumbled upon the true advantage of N scale! A $300 articulated steam locomotive with DCC and sound will fit in your jacket pocket! Unless she has the metal detector turned on, you're off the hook, at least until the Master Card statement arrives...
wm3798 wrote:Hah! You've stumbled upon the true advantage of N scale! A $300 articulated steam locomotive with DCC and sound will fit in your jacket pocket! Unless she has the metal detector turned on, you're off the hook, at least until the Master Card statement arrives...Lee
Sorry.
I never meant to let the Better Halfs of the world know this secret.
Guess I've just lost my membership in the Model Railroader's Frat House
Dont get me wrong, if i ever get an actual layout constructed, i very much want it to be built in N. I will probably never have room to build a layout large enough that my big GEs would look good rolling around it in HO (if i cannot have 30 inch curves on my mains, i wont do it) but they are fun to build as models. I dont know which one of you said it, but in one post i read that "HO is for modeling trains, N is for modelling railroads).
It is a pleasant change to buy something i want, with decals and detail bits, and get ready to work on it. I imagine not everything is as common as Dash 9s and parts, but this same project would be a bit tougher in N. I am looking at purchasing a lathe so i can turn drivers for my N scale fleet, when they are available premade in HO.
Im not knocking N, or advocating HO. Sure, if i had a huge basement, HO would probably be the scale i would chose. Since that is highly unlikely, i will continue to collect hoppers and building locos for my B&O in N, and hopefully one day will start laying some track. Just meant that it was a nice change of pace for me, and if nothing else, i will have a couple new NS diesels for my display case. I do love steam, but for some reason just have a soft spot for NS' paint scheme. No idea why.
Medina1128 wrote:For me, the decision was simply a matter of 1) my eyes aren't what they used to be, and 2) neither are my hands. It's hard enough to put HO cars/locomotices on the track.
Amen, Medina 1128! A friend of mine modeled in N scale, back in the '60s, when it was just getting off the ground. I'd been in HO for quite a while--and I couldn't even get cars and the tiny 0-6-0 switcher on the track without the green plastic "railing device!" I finally decided in '93 that since I could only work on HO for 20 minutes or so at a time before my eyes started seeing double. The only thing I could do at that point was watch TV: I couldn't even read until my eyes straightened out! I went back into O scale, after a lapse of almost 30 years--and within a couple of years had to buy a magnifying workbench lamp to be able to see, even in O scale.
Never were truer words uttered than the old statement of, "If I'd known I was gonna live this long I woulda taken better care of myself." (Even after double cataract surgery that gave me the best eyesight I've enjoyed in more than 40 years, I still use that magnifying lamp most of the time.) I have nothing but admiration for those who're building beautiful model railroads in N scale, not to mention HO!
I started in HO back in the mid-fifties, mainly because at that time it was the smallest practicable scale that appealed to me. Over the years I've collected so MUCH HO that I can't perceive myself switching to any other scale. I love it. I'm really comfortable with it.
But oboy, have I seen layouts and locos and rolling stock in the other scales that make me drool. One of the guys over at Railroad Hobbies in Roseville has some of the most beautiful S-scale equipment that I've ever seen, another friend is into O-scale (not hi-rail) and he makes me swallow every time one of those big steamers of his starts out so slow and ponderous that just watching the rods move makes me actually SMELL the steam. And several friends of mine--and people on this forum--have N-scale layouts that absolutely AMAZE me at their incredible detail and realism. So I think it really boils down to what scale ATTRACTS you and what you feel most comfortable with and what YOU want to do with it. For me, that's what makes this hobby so darned fascinating AND challenging.
Tom
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!