FORUM REALITIES 101 – A REMINDER

[MAbruce]

With all the feisty topics around here lately, I just wanted to interject something about basic forum realities. Some of you doubtless know this, but (like me) need to be reminded from time to time, while others are new and maybe didn’t realize the extent of what really occurs on forums like this.

Here is goes; basic forum (or internet) reality check 101: Not everyone here is who they claim they are, because you never really know who is actually on the other end of the keyboard.

Yes folks, thanks to the anonymous nature of the internet, there are likely forum members here who are deceiving us as to who they really are. It happens all the time. The trouble is you will probably never know who is real and who is not.

Hey, I could be the president of the United States for all you know (Nah, I’m only Harrison Ford).

In fact, if that isn’t bad enough, I’m also sure that some members have multiple “identities” (forum names) so they can gang up on others and even start an argument with themselves.

Sound ridiculous? It is, but it does happen.

So why am I bringing this up? Because I thought it might be helpful to remember this the next time anyone is tempted to reply to an outlandish remark, or get upset because someone is being nasty to you. You simply can not take anything anyone here has to say seriously, because they could be fooling you as to whom they say they are.

This reminds me of an episode of a TV show called “West Wing”, where one of the main characters (Josh) one day discovers that there is an on-line chat forum dedicated to his political career. Upon reading through the topics, he is compelled to reply to the ridiculous things being posted about him. But his assistant (Donna) urges him not to do it. He does anyway and only ends up fueling an even more explosive flaming. So what was Donna’s reason for Josh not to get involved? “Because some of these people have not taken their medication for a few days.”

So lighten up and don’t get taken for a ride. Stay on the subject of model railroading, ignore criticisms, ignore inflammatory comments that bait heated replies, and things here might just settle down.

[AntonioFP45]

Thanks for the tip, MaBruce!

[:0]The possibility of what you've indicated above never even occurred to me. With the things that are happening in today's society, chances are you're right on the mark.[;)]

I've noticed that many young people are being blamed for a lot of the controversies that have occurred on this Forum since December 03, but there are adults that have contributed to "flame fanning". [V][|(][B)][B)]

If I sound nerdy; so be it but as adults we should continue to "encourage" each other, including the "rabble rousers" and the people that want to be nasty. It's easy to take take the wind out of their sails by ignoring the "sucker punches". [^]

[:D][8D][8)][^] I just look forward to continue to exchange modeling ideas, help who I can, and get useful info from the good guys (and ladies) on these threads.

Peace out![:)]

[Anonymous]

MAbruce,

I do agree with you... but... Me, myself and I never argue. [:D] It's the wife we have fun arguing with.

[MAbruce]

QUOTE: Originally posted by AntonioFP45

I've noticed that many young people are being blamed for a lot of the controversies that have occurred on this Forum since December 03, but there are adults that have contributed to "flame fanning". [V][|(][B)][B)]

Perhaps this has been occurring, and maybe not. Maybe not all the kids are really kids, and not all the adults are really adults. Maybe some of these are really the same person! You just never know. That's the point I'm trying to remind people of.

[Fergmiester]

Realizing that what I am about to say is to little and far too late and idealistic in nature. But I think we should have had to acknowledge the ground rules for this forum. This would have established certain criteria and may have kept the "flamers" at bay. Again this is idealistic in nature but would have established the tone and decorum of the responses. Some people have recently commented on what a fun forum this is and as good as the Q & A's are there is room for other non topical comments.

There's plenty of bandwidth for everyone here!

If you want down right nastiness and flaming my wife tells me Canadian and American Idol is where you want to be as it is full of aspiring Simons!

[Eriediamond]

As I start many of my replies, I agree with you all. Now, for myself, I am what I am (Popeye said that) and not trying to hide anything behind my forum name. Anyone can check my profile.This not meant to be taken as a defense. I have however, been misread a time or two and will probably be again and was informed that I had hurt their feelings in one of my replies. He was a teenager and the way he informed me of the fact of hurting his feelings gave me great respect for him. After explaining what I meant in my reply, he understood. We have to remember when we say something on a forum not all read the same message the same way. Also, I try to help the young folks as much, maybe more, as I do us older folks. Yes I often inject a little humor at times, also I'm serious when I need to be. I don't think this is a black bowtie dinner we are at here but a mess ( southern for a lot) of people, enjoying the hobby of model railroading and the chance to gab with each other here. I'm going to say something here that I believe in and will make no apologies for it. The young people coming into this hobby and forum are just that. Young people. They deserve the respect that we would give anyone. Their ideas or type of modeling may be different then some of us old codgers, but then maybe we can learn something from them if we keep our minds open. Lest we for get we were in their shoes at one time? Maybe got a little of topic here![:O][:O]

[Anonymous]

The main thing to remember is, these forums were set up for discussion of railroading in all it's forms. If we stick to that premise, then what is there for anyone to get mad at.

[Anonymous]

And don't forget: the first rule of online debate:
If you need to correct someone's spelling or grammar during a debate, you've already lost. And those are second only to name-calling in proving that you've lost.

(I'll save the more offensive truth, because this isn't a forum that lends itself to dark humor.)

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by MAbruce

With all the feisty topics around here lately, I just wanted to interject something about basic forum realities. Some of you doubtless know this, but (like me) need to be reminded from time to time, while others are new and maybe didn’t realize the extent of what really occurs on forums like this.

Here is goes; basic forum (or internet) reality check 101: Not everyone here is who they claim they are, because you never really know who is actually on the other end of the keyboard.

Yes folks, thanks to the anonymous nature of the internet, there are likely forum members here who are deceiving us as to who they really are. It happens all the time. The trouble is you will probably never know who is real and who is not.

Hey, I could be the president of the United States for all you know (Nah, I’m only Harrison Ford).

In fact, if that isn’t bad enough, I’m also sure that some members have multiple “identities” (forum names) so they can gang up on others and even start an argument with themselves.

Sound ridiculous? It is, but it does happen.

So why am I bringing this up? Because I thought it might be helpful to remember this the next time anyone is tempted to reply to an outlandish remark, or get upset because someone is being nasty to you. You simply can not take anything anyone here has to say seriously, because they could be fooling you as to whom they say they are.

This reminds me of an episode of a TV show called “West Wing”, where one of the main characters (Josh) one day discovers that there is an on-line chat forum dedicated to his political career. Upon reading through the topics, he is compelled to reply to the ridiculous things being posted about him. But his assistant (Donna) urges him not to do it. He does anyway and only ends up fueling an even more explosive flaming. So what was Donna’s reason for Josh not to get involved? “Because some of these people have not taken their medication for a few days.”

So lighten up and don’t get taken for a ride. Stay on the subject of model railroading, ignore criticisms, ignore inflammatory comments that bait heated replies, and things here might just settle down.

Sorry MAbruce

I only have argumetns with the voices in my head! Thats the ONLY time i argue with myself.

Thats about it...

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by MAbruce

QUOTE: Originally posted by AntonioFP45

I've noticed that many young people are being blamed for a lot of the controversies that have occurred on this Forum since December 03, but there are adults that have contributed to "flame fanning". [V][|(][B)][B)]

Perhaps this has been occurring, and maybe not. Maybe not all the kids are really kids, and not all the adults are really adults. Maybe some of these are really the same person! You just never know. That's the point I'm trying to remind people of.

This thought has crossed my mind on occasion. As for me, I have only one name, but many moods, as I have demonstrated in the last few months. I do not require that every post be entirely about trains, though trains are the purpose of this forum.[8D]

[Anonymous]

If every psot where to be about Trains, no one would be here right now, take my word for it.

[easyaces]

[:(!] So what do you expect everyone to do there MaBruce, point fingers at one another or call each other names ? I think not!!!!!! Yes, unfortunately there are some who would stoop very low. But if anybody has any sense , we would be able to see through that kind of guff, and learn to disregard it, and press on. Hopefully cooler heads will prevail as they have in the past !!!

[Anonymous]

Maybe I'm naive [:I], but I can't imagine that anybody would want to use a false identity, or multiple identities, for these forums. This is a hobby! We're supposed to be having fun, aren't we???

I understand that there are places where controversial topics are discussed, or forums where you would just as soon your wife didn't see you visiting [:O], but please, this ain't it! [soapbox] So that's my [2c]

[Anonymous]

Don Cameron-

The thing is, yes, it's a fun hobby, but for some people, getting on a random forum or chat room and hogging all the attention by submitting outrageous or flaming posts is, in itself, their hobby. You would hope that such persons would, over time, be convinced to give up that "hobby" for a better one, i.e. Model Railroading.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for reminding me - time to take my medication.

[AggroJones]

You are right. I could be a serial killer. [:-,] But I'm not.
I'm just a sad younger gentleman who finds joy in model railroading.
I am who I say I am.

And I don't like confrentation. Online or in real life. [:(]

[krump]

yip

[Anonymous]

I pretend to be cool on this site, but I'm not cool in real life. I'm sorry I lied. Can you forgive me?[:I]

[Anonymous]

One doesn't need to explore the whole planet to realise that some folks are a little weirder than others and are entertained by sources beyond the understanding of most of us. Age has little to do with this. Sorry Don, but your naivete is showing, the internet means all and sundry get in.

Doccm9, I agree with your spelling and grammar comment but not for argument sake, but just out of common decency. As MABruce said we don't know who is at the keyboard and assuming that everyone has English as a first language is rudely arrogant.

Writing in CAPITALS can be annoying but although unlikely these days, for those of you who don't remember, early Apple ]['s didn't do lower case.

As KevinstheRRman suggests there will never be RR only discussion boards, we have more to share than just trains. When controversy raises it's head however, Easyaces gave us the ultimate answer "disregard it and press on" If you wrestle a pig you won't win, you'll get stuff on ya and the pig is the only one enjoying it.

[Anonymous]

Several points here:

First: Grammar, spelling, punctuation and typographic attention are NOT OPTIONAL. This is a written medium. Clear expression of ideas and points require standard english. How much respect should I, or anyone, have for careless illiteracy? In my view none at all.

Second: Topical structure is not a suggestion. It is a rule of the forum. Abide by it or go elsewhere. Saying, "If you don't want to read my post don't read it", is the logical equal of saying, "If you don't like the rubbish I leave on the street take a different route." Its intentional bad manners.

Third: The idea all forum posters are deserving of equal respect is, to me, silly on its face. Here all anyone knows about anyone is between the margins. Forums are a pure meritocracy. If what is written over the signature is ill expressed, off topic, poorly spelled, ill puncutated and tendentious what should I conclude other than the poster is a hopeless AND lazy twit? And weight his views accordingly.

Fourth: In my view the TAMR set is certainly welcome here, as they have no forum of their own. I continue to suggest a separate forum sub-section for their use. However, as it doesn't yet exist, the adults need to understand younger posters tend to "run off the rails" (railroad metaphore here) from time to time and require a bit of guidance. Of course, such guidance should be a reminder not a rebuke. If they are, as is often asserted, the future of the hobby wouldn't we all prefer a polite and knowledgable future?

Lets all remember a soft word is always preferable to a barb.

Randy

[Fergmiester]

Interesting points made here (all above). I for one like the fact we live in a democracy and have certain freedoms and are allowed to express our selfs in a respectful way and not having to live in a draconian regime.

Maybe MABruce or some one should put this to a poll and see what the majority of users want. Any seconds on the Loco motion/Lo-comotion?

[MAbruce]

QUOTE: Originally posted by easyaces

[:(!] So what do you expect everyone to do there MaBruce, point fingers at one another or call each other names ? I think not!!!!!! Yes, unfortunately there are some who would stoop very low. But if anybody has any sense , we would be able to see through that kind of guff, and learn to disregard it, and press on. Hopefully cooler heads will prevail as they have in the past !!!

Easy there, "easyaces". [:)]

Pointing fingers at one another and calling each other names is exactly what I'm trying to get people to reconsider doing. I agree that cooler heads have eventually prevailed in past heated topics, but sadly, this occurred only after a heated exchange of harsh words.

I’m just trying to get people to rethink even starting such an exchange. One of the things that help me to walk away from a flame fest is to remember that there are people out there that are TRYING to get this to happen. They may not even be model railroaders, but just people with way too much time on their hands that get their kicks out of starting fires.

Anonymity on the internet is a fact of life. I would neither expect, nor want anyone on this forum to expose their true identity. It’s just not a good idea for everyone’s safety. But there will be those who take advantage of this. Hey, I could actually be “easyaces” myself. It’s not hard to set up more than one account here! You would never know (sorry easyaces, didn’t mean to pick on you).

Overall, the replies to this topic have been interesting, but not surprising. I was sure that I’d draw some scoffing, and even jokes (at least I’ll take them as that).

KevintheRRman, you could be right about no one being here if everyone stuck to train subjects, but maybe not. We’ll never really know because I don’t thing any forum will ever be 100% on topic. And about those voices in your head…[:O][;)]

RSN48 – I know you well from other MRR forums. Please stop skipping your medication! [:D][:D][;)]

Scottydog – You are 100% correct, but it will never happen.

And finally to doccm9 – If it makes you feel better that a debate is won when someone points out bad spelling, then fine. Whatever. I’ll pledge never be a “spelling Nazi” again. BTW: This is just a piece of advice (not trying to win a debate here), but using the “Nazi” term can be considered extremely offensive to some people here – especially Vets. I’d reconsider ever using it again, unless you really want to get people extremely pissed at you. Maybe something like “Spelling Tyrant” would be better?

So let's all just relax and at least try to talk trains. [^]

[Anonymous]

But Mabruce is right, people aren't Exactly who they may seem to be.

But I am kevin, lat time i cheacked...

Well actually...

Now if you'll excuse Me, i put on my Robs as today is going to be a grand day in court, maybe i'll get to yell pathetically at philistines and make myself look like a jerk!

Judge Jud... uhh i mean "Kevin"

[Anonymous]

Fingers no, but I have pointed thumbs at some people [tup] [tup] [tup] [tup] [tup]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Doccm9, I agree with your spelling and grammar comment but not for argument sake, but just out of common decency

Unfortunately some people use it as a low brow attempt to save themselves from losing a debate, but instead it confirms thier loss, becasue they lack a counter-argument.

QUOTE: And finally to doccm9 – If it makes you feel better that a debate is won when someone points out bad spelling, then fine. Whatever. I’ll pledge never be a “spelling Nazi” again. BTW: This is just a piece of advice (not trying to win a debate here), but using the “Nazi” term can be considered extremely offensive to some people here – especially Vets. I’d reconsider ever using it again, unless you really want to get people extremely pissed at you. Maybe something like “Spelling Tyrant” would be better?

No offense is meant, that's just the commonly used term.

[Anonymous]

Let us see here. I can tell you all that your modelling sucks, but so does mine from time to time. I can tell you that you look funny and your mom is strange, but maybe I look funny and have a strange family as well. I can tell you that the rivets in your levi's are not to scale, but that doesn't mean your pants will fall off. And on and on.

No one person is perfect, except perhaps at being a butthole. So why rise to the tra***hat some people have to post? Why even care about them? There is a lot of great stuff in this forum, more than enough to offset those that need to take their ball and go home because we will not play by their rules. If we just ignore the trash, make no comment to it at all, the trash will go away in time. The only reason it is here is because we react and respond to the jerks. I have been criticized on this forum, but I have never responded. Now no one says much about my posts. Let the turkeys try to learn how to fly, let us ignore them as they do.

And I really am tpaulsen, and I will remain so.

Tom

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tpaulsen


And I really am tpaulsen, and I will remain so.

Tom

I don't believe you. If you are the real Tom Paulsen what is your date of birth? What is your mothers maiden name? What are the first 16 numbers on your Visa card (in order), what is the expiration date on that card, what is the billing address and how does your name appear on the card.........huh?[:)]

[Anonymous]

Good topic, Mabruce. I've been aware of this all along. That's why I never give out my name, street address, town, etc. You just NEVER CAN BE SURE, unless you've met the person. Glad to see someone brought up safety issues.

[pbjwilson]

Can youv tell me why a 022 switch has a 31" radius? Why isnt it a 031?

[Anonymous]

You know, I've been reading this one for two days now, and I just can't come up with anything to say.