4x8's or shelf layouts for beginners

[Tjsingle]

Hey guys

There is one question that I ask myself, is my 4x8 really a good idea, or should i convert to a shelf layout? But I know i can'y change what i've done and create a basement empire, spcae is my main issue. But this forum is to see your opinions on 4x8's and shelf layouts

Tjsingle

[SpaceMouse]

Check this page for two things: First there are some layout contests that you can see what people have done with shelves, 4 x 8's and 4 x 8's cut up creatively. Also check out the Beginner's Guide to Layout Design.

http://www.chipengelmann.com/trains/beginnersguide.html 

 

[KlickyMobster]

Well, honesty, I'm 16.  I'm building a 8x10 foot shelf layout on a 2 foot wide shelf.  I'm about halfway through tracklaying, and am considering tearing it down and building a 4x8 instead.  I always thought I would enjoy operations much more than I would enjoy watching trains run.  But now that I've had the oppurtunity to try both, I'd rather just watch trains with some operation (not complex switching moves and timetables). 

I've seen your layout before for the 4x8 with the expansion plans, and think it's great.  It's something I wish I'd seen before construction, because I would have adopted something similar. 

One other thing to consider is something you reasonably expect to finish.  On my part, I will be going to college in 2 years, and I'm rushing to get my layout done.  Too much ambition could be a bad thing, as it was in my case. 

I know I probably have different circumstances than you do, but I'd try both.  Set some track up on the floor, and try both.  See what you enjoy more.  Don't forget, a 4x8, like yours, has plenty of operation potential, but a shelf layout is truly an operator's ball game.  if you are interested in a shelf layout, check out any of David Barrow's MRR articles, or his article in MRP 2004 (one of my inspirations for getting in the hobby).    

Just my 2 cents worth. 

[steinjr]

Hey guys

There is one question that I ask myself, is my 4x8 really a good idea, or should i convert to a shelf layout? But I know i can'y change what i've done and create a basement empire, spcae is my main issue. But this forum is to see your opinions on 4x8's and shelf layouts

Tjsingle

A 4x8 takes up about 8x10 of floor space (leaving 2" wide aisles on three sides for access).

 Here is an interesting beginner layout plan that is deliberately designed to take up the same amount of floor space:

 http://www.hogrr.com

 Smile,
 Stein

 

[WP 3020]

KlickyMobster, if you want a loop for continuous running, why don't you add a return loop at each end of your shelf? I'm not talking reverse loops but what would be a dog bone. Adding loops might get you running trains quicker than tearing it all down and starting over.

My opinion, I think a 4X8 is a great learning tool for beginners, if they are willing to open their eyes, learn and move on to better things. I learned the many shortcomings of the 4X8 (how much space the take up for starters) as well as basic scenery etc.

[xdford]

Hi there Clicky,

I have an electronic version of the article by E E Seely from 1973  on which my own layout is based www.xdford.digitalzones.com which if you send me an email, I can send you gratis. 30 plus years on and I still read it on occasion. It might help and you can apply the principles!

My email is on the website anyway but [e-mail]

Regards 

Trevor 

[IRONROOSTER]

Personally, I started with a 4x8 layout following a plan in the back of Track Planning for Realistic Operation by John Armstrong (first edition - not in current 3rd edition).  I had a lot of fun with it.

There's been a lot of discussion on this forum mostly against the table top.  But really this is a hobby whose goal is to have fun building and/or running trains.  The goal is not to maximize space utilization so whatever works for you is the way to go. 

Enjoy

Paul

[Mr. SP]

The layout here is a shelf layout 16 inches deep around all four walls of the room. There is a lift-out for the doorway and the layout is 4 feet off the floor. With the layout all the way around the room I can run trains around and the track plan allows switching too.

Usually I run the layout as a branchline. A train leaves the yard and goes to an industrial area and switches cars then returns to the yard. Another train can be tun from the yard to another town and switch the customers there before returning to the yard.

With a shelf layout the floor space of the room is available for other use(Family Room) and yet a good layout can be built. A shelf layout with a loop on each side of the doorway would also work and eliminate the lift-out or duck under.

[wjstix]

It depends partly on what equipment you want to run. The mainline on a 4 x 8 layout is going to have a maximum radius curve of 22", if you want any tracks inside of that you'll probably have to go down to 18" radius, and no. 4 turnouts. If you're interested in say a 1950's with four-axle diesels, small steam engines (0-6-0's up to maybe a 2-8-0) with 40' cars and no passenger cars, that would work well. Otherwise, those sharp curves are going to bar you from using a lot of larger equipment, big steam, modern diesels, and long freight and passenger cars.

However on a 12"-16" shelf layout, you can have curves of 30" or greater, and no.6 or larger turnouts, so you could run pretty much anything.

You could do kind of a "hybrid", have a layout on a 12" to 24" shelf with broad curves and large turnouts, but have it say widen out to 4' at some point to allow a loop of 22" radius track so you could run trains, break in new engines etc.; or as someone noted, widen it out to 4' at each end of the shelf, to allow for a "dogbone" continous run layout. Basically, you're taking an oval of track and squeezing it together in the middle so the two straightaways are right next to each other like a double-track mainline.

[BRAKIE]

Well I was a supporter of the 4x8 footer..However,the lessor of the 2 evils is the round the walls style layout..On the other hand a 4x8 is a good learning tool.

 

 

[NittanyLion]

I, too, am a fan of the 4x8 early in your career.  There's something to be said of continuous running without massive space investment, but that's just me.  But more importantly, you're not committing to attaching anything to your walls.  That can be a big plus if you're young or unsure of long term interest.  When i was in my teens, I would have loved to be able to have had a shelf layout.  Would have been 9x10 instead of the 5x9 table i had, but using the walls was out of the question (neither my dad nor I were aware of the domino style and for whateve reason we never independently developed that idea).

[on30francisco]

For most of us renters an around the room layout, although ideal, is impractical as it has to be designed to the shape of the room and most landlords don't like things attached to the walls. A 4x8 or other island design can be easily built in almost any room without disturbing the property and can be moved to another location if necessary. I'm biased toward continuous run type layouts.

[steinjr]

For most of us renters an around the room layout, although ideal, is impractical as it has to be designed to the shape of the room and most landlords don't like things attached to the walls. A 4x8 or other island design can be easily built in almost any room without disturbing the property and can be moved to another location if necessary. I'm biased toward continuous run type layouts.

 An around the room type of layout does not necessarily have to be fastened to the wall. 

 Have a look at the HOG (Heart of Georgia) RR modell: http://www.hogrr.com

 Benchwork is free standing modules on legs set out in a 8x9 feet donut shape. Moveable, and takes no more space than a 4x8 w/walk space around three sides of the 4x8.

 Here is a 4x8 sheet cut into different shapes, some continuous run, some no: 

  http://www.chipengelmann.com/Trains/4x8PlywoodContest.html

 There are many different ways of using the space a 4x8 would use, apart from a straight 4x8 rectangle.

 But by all means - if you want a 4x8, do a 4x8. Spacemouse also had a 4x8 design competition a while back - layouts can be viewed here:

http://www.chipengelmann.com/Trains/4x8Contest.html

 You can even do one that later can be cut into several parts and made into an L-shaped or I-shaped shelf. Linda Sand has an excellent article showing such a layout in the article "One Plan, three options" in Model Railroad Planning 2002.

 I drew up a plan based on that idea in the layout named "Loopy Bridge and Terminal" in the 4x8 contest above.

 Basic layout:

 

 Cut and resassembled as an 2x16 foot shelf - not continuous running, of course:

 

 There are lots of possibilities working out from the basic 4x8 idea.

 Smile,
 Stein

 

 

[cudaken]

I must say I am inspired after seeing the HOG layout. I have thought about a round the room layout but till now I never truly realized how much space I have been wasting. Might just be time to get out the crowbar and saws all and take the old bench down!

  

            Cuda Ken

 

[robengland]

A shelf layout can have return loops at the ends: put them on a fold-up section that serves to hide and protect the shelf when not in use.

[SpaceMouse]

I guess the OP pulled a Casper.

[IRONROOSTER]

Another option for the tabletop is to go bigger than 4x8.  Plywood is made in sizes up to 6x10 although it might be hard to find.  You can extend your table and add a strip to a side and/or end.  Also by cutting 2 sheets into 5'4" and 2'8" (x4') pieces (your lumber yard can do this) you can arrange the pieces for a 5'4'' x 12' table or by using 3 pieces you could have 5'4' x 10'8" (you'll need a small cutoff from the 4th piece).

Enjoy

Paul 

[HHPATH56]

Try www.thortrains.net for layout ideas.

[YoHo1975]

The Heart of Georgia layout is one of the best small layouts. There was another similar layout in one of the more recent MR layout books, but I can't find it in my collection. That one was bigger, UP Transcon in Wyoming themed.

Those two layouts basically informed my personal layout which is roughly 12'x5' with 2 sides on a wall and the center open. It offers all the running options of a 4x8, but with longer straightaways and better switching options. Plus, It's all easily accessible.