Who buys very expensive locomotives ($500 +)

[Anonymous]

I was at a well known model railroad shop in the Los Angeles area on Saturday - for the first time in a few years. It's an extremely well stocked shop.

I cannot believe the prices for some high end locomotives. I saw Z scale deisels in upwards of $500. I saw HO locomotives for $1,200 & up.

Who buys this stuff? Seriously - who does? Are people who buy this stuff extremely rich? what's the deal? Wow, that's some serious cash.

What percentage of model railroaders do you think buy this stuff?

(I just glanced at this stuff to get a laugh on my way to the Athearn shelves)

No offense if I've insulted anyone, but holy cow, that's a lot of dough.

I've long known there's equipment that's this expensive, but it's been quite a few years since I've visited a "Real" model railroad shop, and was jolted by seeing these prices "in the flesh" again. (Usually - because of my location, I frequent a "hobby shop" which, in addition to remote control cars, etc., has a modest selection of Athearn products.

[Anonymous]

What is expensive ??? Handcrafted brassmodels or the prices here in Europe.

Here in Europe a normal Märklin model locomotive will cost about 250 $ !!! The Bigboy near 700 $ !!!!!
And the Märklin fans pay that price!

In the news 2004 is a model of the type 120 electro of the former DB (German Railroad) The model was at the market also 20 years ago, now the model will have some technical features (electronics and DCC)
It will cost 259 Euro. Euro to Dollar = 1:1.

I have the old model! It´s a 16 years old one. Price: 149 DM or 75 Euro !!!!!!!!!!!!

The same with Herpa: One of my oldest truckmodels is a Mercedes Truck in the darkblue / grey outfit of the here well known company TALKE. I buyed this in 1982 - price 9,95 DM = 5 Euro = 5 Dollar.

Now Herpa made a relaunch: In some little details is a better printing but its the same model ! Price: 28 Euro.

28 Euro to 9,95 DM are near 7 (SEVEN) times more !!!!!!!!!

But I understand also your question.
I have a handfull brass models - My Overland DD40AX is the most expensive - 700 Dollars.
This models (most of them brass) were the absolute perfect detailed models in the past and today!
Ajin and the other manufactors, Overland and so place only orders, make models with each exact detail in place! And that details make the price!

Modern technologies make it possible that a "normal" model is today near perfect. And modern casting technologies make small series possible!

The prototypes of that expensives were often models that are unique, like the DD40AX, so versions are not possible. Some years ago it wasn´t possible to become a model of UP´s unique CA-3 / CA-4 caboose.

I have three painted European brass models. Two of the unique Swiss Re 6/6 electros, each about 500 Euro, with three trucks and the German ETA 176 batterypowered railrar, 250 Euro. At this time, more than 15 years ago - a "normal" expensive model has a price of 150 Euro!

Two years after I buyed the Re´s a small manufactor in Switzerland, HAG, bring a cheaper model, but with 250 Euro also expensive at the time. Today, Roco has the Re 6/6 in the catalogue.

The ETA 176 is unique for my home town Limburg - its also called Limburger Zigarre because of the rounded ends it looks like a cigar. Only eight were built in the early 1950´s and all of them spend their whole life in Limburg. Until today, no big manufactor announced a series model!

I think today most buyers of expensive brass locos like the details! In older times the brass locos look great and run very often baaaaaaaaaaaaaad!!!!!

I have some Athearn´s and I agree that this 75 Dollar models are absolute okay!!!

[Anonymous]

Because the Brass and some of the newer high end engines are way above the rest in quality and should last a life time. They are also well crafted and not child like.

But for the most part I buy used gear that has been hardly run and is in mint condition.

I picked up a CN 4-6-4 Hudson 5-Ka for under $500 a year ago and a B&O 2-8-0 for $350 last month. These to me are investments that should be around for many years to come.

[Anonymous]

not me i am on a junior high budget

[Anonymous]

Those that buy these high priced items gotta be the rich folks!! Although not complete, I only have about $300-$350 in my whole layout. [:D]

I want to get BLI's new Santa Fe 4-8-4. Street price is about $280 I have been saving my nickels and dimes now for several months and hope to be able to buy it sometime this summer. This to me is a BIG purchase!!

[Anonymous]

Rich No, My Dad, who is in his eighties, who couldn't afford the hobby 40 years ago, is living the hobby now through me and buys me an Engine for Christmas every year.

He talks about us getting a CPR Selkirk and Royal Hudson, as he'll sit for hours watching the engines go around the track.

[Anonymous]

Yes, brass pieces are expensive and always have commanded a premium amount. I have two brass locos, both under $500.00 at purchase time. I was making considerably more money at the time I purchased them, than I make now. Something your not considering is that brass can be an investment which can appreciate in value over time. This is certainly the case with "crown" brass pieces. Crown pieces are the top of the line a brass producer produces and are made on a limited run bases. Even lower grade brass pieces hold their value, so when it is time to cash out of the hobby, a considerable chunk of change will be returned to the owner. This is something which will likely never happen with any plastic models. Brass has it's place in this hobby and maybe what I've said above will help you understand why.

[CNJ831]

To more directly answer the poster's question, the area of very expensive model buyers encompasses a limited crowd. As one who used to participate in brass years ago, when perhaps 20% of all modelers dabbled in it, the market is probably down to just a few percent currently. The high-end plastic loco's coming out now probably bring in around 10-15% of modelers, to judge from comments here and on other forums, plus the extremely low production run numbers available. It would appear that, if the last couple of years are any indicator, the manufacturers are going to turn their attention progessively more to mainly the well-to-do participants in the hobby, with plastic prices chasing brass, so get used to seeing high priced stuff in the shops.

CNJ831

[Anonymous]

The most expensive locomotive I bought is my Spectrum 4-8-2, $125.00. [(-D][swg][:-^][:-^] Not much compared to some of you guys!

[orsonroy]

I'm a steam proto modeler, and as such I've been forced into buying more expensive engines over the past couple of years., When I was freelancing, $50 used Mantuas and $75 IHC engines were the mainstay of my roster. Now that I'm trying to recreate a specific time and place (the time machine syndrome), I either lower my authenticity bar or fork over the dough.

$250 for a P2K Berkshire is a lot of money, especially when I did it six times, but the overall quality of the engine beats the Rivarossi engine (which is going for as little as $70), making it worth the investment. And they're still cheaper than brass!

$175 for the BLI USRA heavy mike seems a bit high, but when you factor in it's great performance and the sound unit, it's well worth it.

I've got two used brass engines that I paid $500 each for, because there's no way the engines will ever be made in plastic, and my skills don't include scratchbuilding steam. There's no way I'll pay the $1000+ price tag for new brass however, or $150+ for a plastic diesel.

[easyaces]

I only wish I had that kind of Dinero to shell out for a high-priced loco. Last loco I bought that was just over a hundred bucks, my better half nearly skinned me! Most of the time I'll settle for a good Athern loco, since they are more affordable, and operate well, easily modified, etc.

[IRONROOSTER]

In S scale the steam locomotives start at $300 and go up to about $700 for non brass. These ar kits and RTR. Brass is over $1000 (most are $2000+). Diesels start at $150 go up to $350 in plastic. Brass is about $800. I don't buy too many locos in this scale - 2 diesels, 1 GG1, and 2 steam locomotive kits. Over the years you can buy quite a bit if you take the long view and budget for it. While I have spent about $1600 for these (the latest steam loco kit was $725), it is over a twelve year period so it works out to less than $150 a year. Having a lot of locomotives is not a goal of mine so this works just fine. While i would love to have some of the brass locos, I do just fine without them.
Enjoy
Paul

[cbq9911a]

If it's something you REALLY want, price is not as much of an objection.

[Anonymous]

I personally do not drop that kind of money on a locomotive. I was seriously seriously tempted when Riverossi came out with the Allegheny. But I feel that it has been some time now and with my dealer's discounts I can go maybe 300- max after saving the funds. But keep in mind I buy one or two engines per year and my roster is nearly complete. (10 engines total)

There is a very limited group of people who can spend large amounts on the hobby. As far as I am concerned, that is fine. Your wallet is not who you are. I witnessed a incident in which a child bought a train set at kaybee's in the mall recently and it was a bit pricey at 80- for the Parents however the expression on the face is joy. To that kid with the new set is like the Crown Jewels.

That is what will keep the hobby going. There will always be a market for the high end as well as everything in between.

[nfmisso]

My wife did for a graduation (MS, 20 years after my BS) present for me last year. [:D][:D][:D][:D][8D] [8D]

It is a N&W Jawn Henry steam turbine, HO scale.

[Anonymous]

I wish [sigh]!! The most expensive thing I have is $89.

[cacole]

I certainly don't mean to sound like I'm smarting off, but someone obviously purchases those locomotives or they wouldn't be made. If there was no market, there would be no such locomotives. I don't own any of them, but I see them in practically every hobby shop I go to.

[Anonymous]

wait does G sacle count cuase i bought a aristocraft Fa1 for 325. that is the most i ever spent on one enigne. My grain trains altogether cost me about 5 or 6 hundered

[fiatfan]

Not quite on topic but...

I actually bought a brass locomotive once when I was in high school. How many of you rmember the Ken Kidder (I think that was the name) 0-4-0T brass switcher? It sold for around $10 or $15. It was the first engine I ever bought. I mowed lawns for 35 cents an hour so it took me most of the summer to save up for it. It didn't run ll that well and I pretty much destroyed it trying to "fix" it. I would love to have it back now and try to remotor it.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by fiatfan

Not quite on topic but...

I actually bought a brass locomotive once when I was in high school. How many of you rmember the Ken Kidder (I think that was the name) 0-4-0T brass switcher? It sold for around $10 or $15. It was the first engine I ever bought. I mowed lawns for 35 cents an hour so it took me most of the summer to save up for it. It didn't run ll that well and I pretty much destroyed it trying to "fix" it. I would love to have it back now and try to remotor it.

sounds lik your signature

[fiatfan]

Excellent point! : )

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by fiatfan

Not quite on topic but...

I actually bought a brass locomotive once when I was in high school. How many of you rmember the Ken Kidder (I think that was the name) 0-4-0T brass switcher? It sold for around $10 or $15. It was the first engine I ever bought. I mowed lawns for 35 cents an hour so it took me most of the summer to save up for it. It didn't run ll that well and I pretty much destroyed it trying to "fix" it. I would love to have it back now and try to remotor it.

sounds lik your signature

[Anonymous]

Brass locomotives would be worth the money I feel. My wallet dictates otherwise.[:(]

Frankly, I think anything you really like is (in most cases) worth purchasing, and that includes expensive equipment. Of course we all realize that we can be just as happy spending $100.00 bucks on a locomotive of quality as we could with the higher-end stuff. It all boils down to desire and economics.[^]

[Anonymous]

At one point today Ebay had 23,676 items listed in HO today. At the same time, there were 990 brass items listed. This works out to 4% of the items listed being brass pieces; locos, freight & passenger cars, structures and brass track (which sorta puts a wrench into the figures). I think the ratio of modelers who have some brass pieces is likely around 10-20%. I also think alot of the folks in brass are collectors and that they have had some responsibility for brass prices getting out-of-hand. Also, Like I said, when it's time to cash out of the hobby, brass pieces will give a better return on your investment! None of you seem to want to acknowledge this fact!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by deschane
I also think alot of the folks in brass are collectors and that they have had some responsibility for brass prices getting out-of-hand. Also, Like I said, when it's time to cash out of the hobby, brass pieces will give a better return on your investment! None of you seem to want to acknowledge this fact!

Consumer interest and demand certainly causes brass manufacturers to take notice--and prices most assuredly will rise. Greater profits, in any language, elicits the same response: an adrenaline rush.

I've no beef with collectors who can purchase brass products with as much ease as I buy it plastic's counterparts. If it were me however, I'd purchase brass for the pleasure of owning something I desired, not because of an anticipated high yield on my investment.

[Anonymous]

Im with Iron rooster, S is expensive. Bought an American Flyer B&O Alco A-B-A set last year brand new in the box. Gave to much for it but at the time had to have it and now afraid to run it (devalue)

[AggroJones]

I wondered what kind of people could afford these $500+ locomotives so I started this.....

http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8639

[orsonroy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by deschane
I also think alot of the folks in brass are collectors and that they have had some responsibility for brass prices getting out-of-hand. Also, Like I said, when it's time to cash out of the hobby, brass pieces will give a better return on your investment! None of you seem to want to acknowledge this fact!

The vast majority of brass models made over the past 20-25 years have been bought by brass collectors and not by modelers who actually run trains. Take an engine out of the box, and the value goes down. Get fingerprints on it, and the value goes down. Test run it, and the value goes down. There's a subculture in model railroading that does nothing but buy brass and put it on a shelf, and they're VERY quiet about their part of the hobby, mostly because of all the money they've got floating around in their collections. They're the ones who have driven up brass prices.

As for getting a return on your "investment" in brass, not anymore! Ebay has become the great leveller in the field of stupidly high brass prices. In the days before E-commerce, you'd search for years looking for a "rare" brass engine, and bought it as soon as you found one, price be damned! Hobbiests knew this, and artificially inflated the prices. Nowadays, the same "rare" model will pop up on Ebay twice a month. Since they're no longer rare, prices are going DOWN dramatically.

And if you have a brass engine that pops up on Ebay regularly that's just been released in quality plastic, you might as well use it as a doorstop, 'cause you're not gonna get SQUAT for it!

Believe it or not, the single BEST investment to be made in this hobby (in HO, at least) are resin freight car kits. I've seen Sunshine cars made four years ago and retailed for $30 go for $150! If you're good at building and painting resin cars, basically any resin box car will fetch upwards of $150 as well.

Quality weathering jobs are also yielding a better "return" on Ebay than brass. Stock Genesis box cars run about $25 and sell for $85 and up with a high-quality weathering job. Add custom tagging decals, and the price jumps tp $100 plus. I've seen $6 Blue Box cars with good weathering jobs go for $50!

[Anonymous]

Orsonroy,
My opinion is I can not agree with you about brass as an investment. I see nothing of the leveling of brass prices you mentioned, because of e commerce. I see brass prices being mostly stable. As a matter of fact one of the locos I own, was for sale recently on Ebay and sold for what I paid for mine 8 years ago. How much of your original investment would be returned to you for your plastic loco bought eight years ago?

It's also my opinion that nothing in this hobby should be looked upon as an investment which will produce monitary growth! Even your artistically built, detailed and weathered resin cars which might sell way above market likely do not afford their builders a living wage.

[lupo]

deschane and orsonroy
I had my mind set on an Overland UP 8500 HP Turbine, it was priced around $ 1695,= but sold out at Overland, well I thought lets look at the second-hand market maybe you can one cheaper, but all I found were unit priced from $2800 - $ 3500 so that is a RAISE of about 65 - 100 % lot of modern investors would lick their fingers at such figures.
btw If you know one going out for less. . . . . .

if you really want to see models at staggering prices, check this out, what they make looks awesome, but their prices?

http://www.fine-art-models.com/e/model/trains/bigboy/default.asp