Well after a building a few kits and kitbashing some building's and a few bridges, I was rather shocked at the sticker price of purchasing a locomotive repair shop. None of which seem to have much room for prototype operations inside that I want to model.
I'm not even half way into scrach building this, seems to take three time's as long as a kit, just in desiging it, figuring out how to make it and chasing parts.To me its more intense in a way then actually building somthing out of a box, with those nice well defined directions that disapears untill its glued up, then hunted down. Ah jus glu and cuss anyhowdont ned thos stuped dir.ections LOL.
Has anyone tinkered with making large buildings out of 1/4 in thick foamboard. Presently trying to use this stuff for my locomotive shop walls, using stryine channel, I beams and angle to hide the edges and I'm also useing it for window caseing and doorways. Perhaps the wall thickness is a bit of overkill, but they will support two traveling cranes.
I was going to use the stryene metal wall sheets, toured three hobby shop's and only came up with three packs, the building is 22x 18, so I will use these for other buildings.
Just curious of what you use and how you go about it......John
I've scratch built a few structures in my time, but nothing much larger than a gas station or depot, all of which were made out of heavy card stock and glued together with wood glue. I recently found a barn and a truck stop that I built about twenty years ago and couldn't help but laugh when I saw them because back when I built them I thought I had done such a great job. Now when I look at them they look like something a fourth grader might have done. Oh well. We all have to start somewhere don't we...
Tracklayer
In my humble oppinion I would say that scratchbuilding is no less expensive than buying a kit. That is assuming that you don't start with structural lumber and saw it down, scratchbuilding the windows, siding and frameing. If you use commercial siding, window castings and other details you will spend as much as a kit would cost. If you do scratchbuild you will get a structure that is as detailed as you want, the layout of the building you want, and exactly the dimensions you want. Then you will have materials left over as a head start on your next scratchbuilding project. I have done it both ways, but typically kitbash.
That is to start with a commercial kit, or leftover parts from previous projects, to build a structure that is very close to what I need. If expediancy is your bag that buy the kits, follow the instructions, and you will usually end up with a very nice structure. It may by like hundreds of others, which is not necessarily a bad thing. Never forget your train layout is yours. Build it to your liking, and if somebody else is not happy with it, that is their problem.
Paul
Dayton and Mad River RR
I am just starting out with dabbling in some kitbashing. Currently I have been experimenting with 3/16" thick foam core board with images attached to them for backdrop structures.
I also just purchased an old library book copy of the 1988 publication by Art Curren, "Kitbashing HO Model Railroad Structures" Having just gotten the book in the mail yesterday (03/27/08) I have only skimmed over the chapters but I am looking forward to picking up some tips and tricks.
A good Internet resouce for scratch building is the Scratchbuilders Guild
Cheers,
Ryan
Ryan BoudreauxThe Piedmont Division Modeling The Southern Railway, Norfolk & Western & Norfolk Southern in HO during the merger eraCajun Chef Ryan
Me, because it allows me to build structures that would not otherwise be available and thus put my own imprint on my layouts. Part of it is also that it's much more challenging and creative then opening a box.
p.
-|----|- Peter D. Verheyen-|----|- verheyen@philobiblon.com -|----|- http://www.philobiblon.com/eisenbahn -|----|- http://papphausen.blogspot.com/-|----|- http://www.youtube.com/user/papphausen2
I scratchbuild a large part of my rolling stock and buildings.
Two reasons:
I get what I want.
Major manufacturers generally don't make freight car kits or RTR for my era.
Dave H.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Once you learn the art of scratchbuilding, you will find that it can be immensely cheaper than purchasing many of the impressive, higher-priced kits, contrary to what many newbies think. I've replicated a number of the larger FSM structures from scratch for about $50 vs the $300 kit price. It's simply all about learning to be an accomplished model railroader.
(my scratch replica of FSM's Jefferies Point Stave & Heading Co.)
CNJ831
I scratch build out of necessity not because its cheaper. Gray 3/16" foamcore is great for large buildings. Heres a Ralston Purina flat structure built from foam core. I'm not done yet, but you get the idea.
I've also started my first styrene scratchbuilt structure. It takes time, but I think its worth it. Will I scratchbuild all my buildings? Heck no. Just the ones I can't find commercially built. For this one I'm using "Pikestuff" cement block styrene. Its only $2.50 for a 4 wall sheet. Windows were $3.00, and the roof $6.20. Plus another $8 in styrene stuff. Total about $25 including paint. I could have purchased a commercially built structure for probably less, but it wouldn't look right.
Being terminally lazy, I would really rather build from a 'shake the box' kit. Modeling a 'furrin' prototype in a non-standard scale, there are very few to no kits for my needs at the LHS. Also, I have been known to create wild feats of 'imagineering,' both structures and rolling stock. For the latter, scratchbuilding or extreme kitbashing are the only way to get anything close to what I want.
The bottom line is that I decide what I need to achieve a certain appearance, then create it in the simplest/least expensive way I can arrange. This may simply involve taking a pre-built item out of its box, but is more likely to include designing from the ground up and fabricating from raw or semi-finished materials.
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
I have done extremely LITTLE builds from nothings. I have a 1960 Revell Desiel service area that needed a sand rack and a hose. A bit of wire made the hose and built a bracket for the rack out of sprue parts and stuck it all into place.
Modulars is not considered building from nothing, but sometimes the foundation need to be measured very preciesly and cut just so in order to make the building design fit.
I have tentative future plans for building from nothing but mainly stick with kitbashing to stay out of trouble. It does take a very long time from planning, cutting and building just so.
CNJ831 wrote: Once you learn the art of scratchbuilding, you will find that it can be immensely cheaper than purchasing many of the impressive, higher-priced kits, contrary to what many newbies think.[snip]
Once you learn the art of scratchbuilding, you will find that it can be immensely cheaper than purchasing many of the impressive, higher-priced kits, contrary to what many newbies think.
[snip]
Not to mention that once your scratchbuilding project is finished, you have gained all of the skills and knowledge necessary to build it properly should the opportunity arise in the future.
CNJ831 wrote: (my scratch replica of FSM's Jefferies Point Stave & Heading Co.)
Absolutely outstanding. I am in awe!
I scratch build most of my rolling stock and a few structures. Just finished replicating a "Backwoods" water tank out of my scratch box of scale lumber pieces, spare parts, and using a rattle can top as a mold for the tank. A similiar kit retails for about $50 and my out of pocket expense was minimal.
I thoroughly enjoy this aspect of the hobby and have spent the last couple of weeks working on two 28' boxcars....These will be finished today and then I'm gonna start on a track cleaning car.
Scratchbuilding gives one total freedom and control in design, and it has been my experience that it is much cheaper than paying retail for similiar items.
Attached is a photo of the water tank "under construction"
Modeling HO Freelance Logging Railroad.
sfcouple wrote:I scratch build all my rolling stock and a few structures. Just finished replicating a "Backwoods" water tank out of my scratch box of scale lumber pieces, spare parts, and using a rattle can top as a mold for the tank. A similiar kit retails for about $50 and my out of pocket expense was minimal.I thoroughly enjoy this aspect of the hobby and have spent the last couple of weeks working on two 28' boxcars....These will be finished today and then I'm gonna start on a track cleaning car. Scratchbuilding gives one total freedom and control in design, and it has been my experience that it is much cheaper than paying retail for similiar items.Wayne
I scratch build all my rolling stock and a few structures. Just finished replicating a "Backwoods" water tank out of my scratch box of scale lumber pieces, spare parts, and using a rattle can top as a mold for the tank. A similiar kit retails for about $50 and my out of pocket expense was minimal.
Wayne
Whether it's a kit, kitbash or scratchbuilt depends on several factors.
My downtown and houses are kits. I use a lot of photos that I have taken personally or pulled off the Internet to give them individuality in terms of color, signage or window treatment. I put a lot of detail on the roofs because that's much of what the viewer sees at first glance.
Industrial buildings are a mix. When I find an industry that I want to model, again, I take a lot of pictures. Then I either buy a kit, or kits, that come close and start modifying from there.
For details, I peruse the Walthers catalogue. Most everything there has to be assembled, of course. In particular, I like the things that BLMA has come out with recently such as cell phone towers.
As for rolling stock, these days it is difficult to find many kits anymore. When I can find them I enjoy building Intermountain kits because of the level of detail and I enjoy the challenge. Somehow I find relaxation in it. I have also kitbashed several Athearn 62' blue box tank car kits into more modern frameless versions that are not available commercially.
Building cars from scratch is much more difficult. First, you have to be able to locate accurate and detailed drawings. Then you need to be able to find materials, parts and hardware, modify whatever is available or make it all yourself. It can get tedious. For that reason, over the last 30 years, I have scratchbuilt no more than a dozen or so freight cars. The easiest are gondolas, covered hoppers have a lot more detail but there are so many prototype varieties of them that when you build one, it is unique. I have found that tank cars are more easily kitbashed.
John Timm
I am probably the world's worst builder of structures. Locos, cars, trees, grass, plaster rock formations, carving foam, other scenery, wiring...no problem. Put a kit or scratchbuilding project in front of me and I melt. It's like kryptonite! I'd rather get hit in the head with a pick-axe than build structures, and as such I have oodles of respect for those that do it. That might make me 'odd man out' on this thread.
The last structure I attempted to build was the Walther's ADM grain elevator. I took 13 hours over 3 days carefully cuting, filing, dry-fitting, measuring twice, etc...and it still looked like something a 10 y/o kid built. I guess it's just not my forte.
Dan
I have never scratchbuilt anything more complex than a loading platform. I've done a few kitbashes with varying degrees of success. Most of my structures are kit builts with little modification from the stock plan. When I buy a kit, it is because I like the way it looks as is and is right for a specific location. I'm not against adding a few unique details, but for the most part, I find this unnecessary.
My gripe comes in the area of craftsman kits which in some cases are nothing but a pile of scale lumber that need to be cut to size according to the plans provided. In most endeavors, a person can save a good deal of money by buying raw materials and putting some sweat equity into it. That doesn't seem to be the case with many craftsman kits. If I have to cut the parts to size, what I am paying the premium price for. It seems like the more work I have to do, the less I should have to pay for a kit.
I scratchbuilt more in HO than I have in N. But that's mainly because I was interested in completing the current layout in time for its first show.
Kits and kitbashes often make decent stand-ins until time (or skill) presents itself to scratchbuild what you really want there. As I move toward modeling an actual segment of the PRR in the future, my Pennsy-like kitbashes will no longer suffice, and will need to be replaced with actual structure models. In some locations I may still settle upon a "close-enough" kitbash. Examples would include approximating the Sunbury, PA station from modular wall components or turning the Walthers New River Mine into the Glenburn Colliery on the Shamokin branch.
It depends on how strict you are. If I modeled, say, Lewistown's distinctive station on the PRR and got the overall dimensions and wondow arrangement, the tower, the platforms, and the loading doors right, but maybe left off some of the decorative trim on the roof line or some of the fancier brickwork, most people familiar with the prototype would still get the "point."
If there's a kit for a specific model or something 90% there, I'll use it. Not because I'm lazy or because I can't scratchbuild, but because the "fun" for me lies in the painting, weathering, and detailing aspect, and not so much in the construction of a structure. But, when nothing is available, I have no problem scratchbuilding to fit a need.
Modeling the Rio Grande Southern First District circa 1938-1946 in HOn3.
No need to beat yourself up over the Walthers grain elevators. The first run was a beast. I started it and then threw it into a box and put it in a closet for about ten years. Over that time my skills had improved enough to finally be able to overcome its shortcomings.
CNJ831 wrote: Once you learn the art of scratchbuilding, you will find that it can be immensely cheaper than purchasing many of the impressive, higher-priced kits, contrary to what many newbies think. I've replicated a number of the larger FSM structures from scratch for about $50 vs the $300 kit price. It's simply all about learning to be an accomplished model railroader.(my scratch replica of FSM's Jefferies Point Stave & Heading Co.)CNJ831
Is this on an outdoor diorama. If not, I'd like to know your technique for making the background trees. Excellent work in any case.
Okay,
The truth be known. There is so much to do in this hobby that can always find plenty to do. I'm also cheap. And I'm unwilling to settle for less than what I want. That said, I'd rather...
1) Find a structure on eBay already built for really cheap.
2) Find a plastic kit on eBay for really cheap
3) Find a craftsman kit on eBay for really cheap
4) Bash one of the above.
5) Scratch something new.
My "standards" such as they are making #4s & #5s more and more common.
Here's a $9 plastic kit with no modifications.
Here's a craftsman mine where I've redone the walls with Styrene. I won't weather it until I build the trestle and it is in place on the new layout.
Here's a station where I changed the framing, trim work, added a ticket window and cupola. Still needs to be weathered.
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
Well, it depends.
Buildings like the Walthers Amtrak Station are buildings I want looking like that, and that's a hard one to scratchbuild.
I have built structure kits from paper sides and foam board walls, and it wasn't too difficult. However, it's parts like doors and windows that are convienent in a kit.
One of the latest buildings was the Walthers cornerstone Backshop, that I made 6 stalls long. Something like that I do not even read the instructions for, as I know what I am doing right when I open each box.
If I could readily have brick or wood patterened styrene and foamboard available, and had a technique down, I might start scratchbuilding a lot of buildings.
As for railroad cars, no. I don't scratchbuild them...but I do kitbash.
This thread has inspired be to build another locomotive shop...and I will try my hand at scratchbuilding.
Phil
This may interest some of you.
http://www.scratchbuildersguild.com/portal/
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
Another thing as mentioned above that made me lean toward scrach building is purchasing a wood curved trestle bridge for $30. Upon opening the box I had no clue how to do it it, looking at the wood pieces that had to be custom cut, I realized the bang for the buck was in the prints, as for what was in that very small box of wood parts, I personaly feel I was taken advantage of, mostly due to my inexperience.
I now look for tight grain wood, kiln dried 2/4s, and cut ithem on my table saw. Even paying a couple of bucks for a short cut of spruce, one 1/8 x 1/8 piece 24 in long is a buck at a hobby shop. But then again the table saw was $300 LOL.
Its not that im cheap (perhaps a bit LOL) but I get more enjoyment working and looking at somthing I created, then somthing just glued togather.
jwar wrote:Another thing as mentioned above that made me lean toward scrach building is purchasing a wood curved trestle bridge for $30. Upon opening the box I had no clue how to do it it, looking at the wood pieces that had to be custom cut, I realized the bang for the buck was in the prints, as for what was in that very small box of wood parts, I personaly feel I was taken advantage of, mostly due to my inexperience.I now look for tight grain wood, kiln dried 2/4s, and cut ithem on my table saw. Even paying a couple of bucks for a short cut of spruce, one 1/8 x 1/8 piece 24 in long is a buck at a hobby shop. But then again the table saw was $300 LOL.Its not that im cheap (perhaps a bit LOL) but I get more enjoyment working and looking at somthing I created, then somthing just glued togather.