how accurate do you think reviews in Model Railroader Magazine are?

[lupo]

how accurate do you think product reviews in Model Railroader are?
Do they reflect your opinions ?

[brothaslide]

QUOTE: Originally posted by lupo

how accurate do you think reviews in Model Railroader are?
Do they reflect your opinions ?
or do you think they are in any way influenced by commercial interests? (you don't write a negative review on one of your best advertisers sloppy work)

I will have to say, MR tends to have this "nice guy" friendly attitude. I've never seen MR "slam" any product in a review. On the other hand, car magazines can be ruthless when reviewing a car they don't like. I think the difference here is that if MR slammed a product, there is a greater potential to really hurt a manufacturer which would lead to people loosing jobs, etc. A bad review for a car manufacture hurts sales and egos.

However, a manufacturer should give the best product for the money but if they can't or won't, I want MR to give a fair and balanced (ala FOX News) opinion regarding the quality of a particular product.

With all that said, I do think the manufactures and the hobby press are in bed together so you will not, in my opinion, get a truly accurate review of a product.

[MAbruce]

Do you really think they would bite the hand that feeds them?

[DSchmitt]

I think the reviews are generally factual, but they print reviews only of products they find acceptable so there won't be any truly bad reviews. I believe the reviews are the individual reviewers opinion not the editorial staff.

I have seen problems with products mentioned, although the reviews are overall positive.

Overall the quality of what is available has improved tremendously. Our expectations have changed. Many products which got good reviews in the past would be unexceptable to most modelers today.

[Anonymous]

I have to say, I think they do a pretty good job. I have disassembled a couple of models discussed in MR and my findings were, apart from a few very minor things, the same as was reported.

[Anonymous]

II appreciate the reviews of modelers first if available and then MR

[AggroJones]

Use the reviews in MR to get an initial impression of the product. Then check the internet for other people opinons and information. Usually there are people out there who own it and can help anwser your questions.

[Anonymous]

Believe three quarters of what you see and a half of what you hear! If I see something I want, at a price I can aford, I will go for it. I am mechanically inclined enough that I can tell if something is generally made well and can likely correct anything wrong or lacking, if needed. I read the reviews for information on the product and feel MR does as good a job of reviewing as any. Also, I believe manufacturers are really trying to give us the best bang for the buck. I don't have any experiances with them that show otherwise.

However, some of MR's business is selling advertizing for manufacturers. This is the balancing act they must endure, so it behoves to make up your own mind about a product.

I see things espoused on this forum, which I do not agree with, so other modeler's opinon's arn't more valad than MRs, IMHO.

[nfmisso]

I do not rely on them as a sole source of information, and usually they come out later than other available reviews/opinions.

[ndbprr]

Well let's see:
1. BLI GG1 - numerous people received them with broken gears
2. BLI T-1 - Numerous people have problems with the universal joints breaking
3. BLI M-1 - A Lot of them require reprogramming or resetting the decoder to do anthing but sit there dead.
BLI responding - apparently
Any review of the problems - Ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!!

[Anonymous]

I think they're pretty good, though I don't always really understand them. They should put more pictures in there, too.

[AggroJones]

QUOTE: Originally posted by 4884bigboy

I think they're pretty good, though I don't always really understand them. They should put more pictures in there, too.

He's right. There needs to be more photos at more angles. And more disassembled shots.

[CP5415]

I believe the reviews are accurate for the model they tested.
It doesn't mean that there arn't lemons out there though.
You could test drive a car. It could be the best car on the planet!!! Order the same model of car off of the assembly line & it could be the biggest lemon on the planet.
Same goes with any review of anything.
Look at the review of the latest Rivarossi offering. They did note the subtle differences in the paint on them.

Just my [2c]

Gordon

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by brothaslide

QUOTE: Originally posted by lupo

how accurate do you think reviews in Model Railroader are?
Do they reflect your opinions ?
or do you think they are in any way influenced by commercial interests? (you don't write a negative review on one of your best advertisers sloppy work)

I will have to say, MR tends to have this "nice guy" friendly attitude. I've never seen MR "slam" any product in a review. On the other hand, car magazines can be ruthless when reviewing a car they don't like. I think the difference here is that if MR slammed a product, there is a greater potential to really hurt a manufacturer which would lead to people loosing jobs, etc. A bad review for a car manufacture hurts sales and egos.

However, a manufacturer should give the best product for the money but if they can't or won't, I want MR to give a fair and balanced (ala FOX News) opinion regarding the quality of a particular product.

With all that said, I do think the manufactures and the hobby press are in bed together so you will not, in my opinion, get a truly accurate review of a product.

I totally agree, even though I am not in the market for products reviewed in MR, the attitude and flavor at sister magazine CTT, is very much the same. Bob Keller is the person who writes the reviews for CTT, and there was a long and interesting topic in that forum about Lionel's new track product. Bob actually posted to the topic, but I felt as if his response was really limited by his position within the industry.

As a free thinker and speaker, I went on to be rather blunt about the product, and may have turned some heads in the process. I'm not sure this industry is large enough to support seriously detailed product reviews, and perhaps the magazines should just stick to articles, advertising, and product announcments.

[trainfan1221]

I`ve seen them give good reviews to some questionable models. I have to agree with brothaslide that they have an overly friendly attitude. However its also possible that when the manufacturers send one to them, if thats how its done, they certainly are going to make sure its in the best possible condition. Also, an initial review of a product can`t account for long term problems such as how quickly a model falls apart.

[IRONROOSTER]

I find they generally give a friendly review. But they do point out where the differences from the prototype are and for kits I have seen them point out problems in the instructions and occasionally problem parts. They're not Consumer Reports, but I find them very useful for providing more information than the corresponding advertising.
Enjoy
Paul

[Big_Boy_4005]

If you want a real review, go to your local hobby store!

The people there will know what is good, and if it is bad, they will probably not stock it! If you are interested in an engine most stores have a display model, and a test track so you can see one run before you buy it. You can ask if there have been returns or problems with a specific item.

Generally manufacturers make good stuff, but sometimes a newly designed product will have a problem, but things like that are rare, and if it happens, word spreads quickly. Some manufacturers are better than others, a good hobby clerk will know which ones to recommend and which ones to stay away from, all you have to do is ask.

Online and mail order is for people who know what they want, and don't expect service in helping to make a selection. But don't expect a product review that you read in a magazine to substitute for seeing or even trying the product yourself. That's what your LHS is for!!! You wouldn't buy a car without a test drive would you???

How do I know all this? I used to work in a hobby store for a living.

[Anonymous]

I think the reviews are fair. Some years ago when Walthers began producing HO scale replicas of Amtrak Superliner cars, the writer indicated that in the tooling process, the first batch of cars had a slightly bowed roof, much to the disappointment of Walthers. Still, the writer pointed out that steps would be taken to alleviate the problem in future production runs. For the consumer, you couldn't ask for a more honest critique. I believe strongly that MR wants to encourage manufacturers to give us the best possible product, and flaws are noted in a constructive manner. This puts the manufacturer on notice, and informs the buyer to wait 'til the kinks are ironed out...take a risk and buy it any way...or simply decline to purchase a particular item. Bashing the manufacturer is counter-productive if you're attempting to promote the positives of the hobby. If a product is truly a lemon however, it ought to be exposed for what it is--but even this should be done in a tactful manner.[:)]

[lupo]

[:)][:)]Thanks all for your reactions![:)][:)]

BigBoy4005,
you have a point on the hobbystore issue, but being a US RR fan living in Europe (the south-west part of Holland) , there are hardly any LHS selling US model stuff around here, the closest I heard off wich has SOME US trains should be in Amsterdam, about a 2 hour drive from where I live, so you don't pop in there on a rainy afternoon to ask if they stock the new Lionel Veranda Turbine ( that is where I got the idea about this post : I want it but is it really gonna be good, ? the only way for me to get it is: Mailorder by the internet )
So in this case I think I have to rely on whatever information I can get out of magazines and certainly on information I get from you guys at this forum, because of your experience and vast knowledge of the US MRR market.

[lyctus]

Over the years the reviews have been fair and balanced. Don't expect a magazine to slam a product if it is bad....they just don't review it. I have seen constructive information/criticism in MR, mainly about fidelity to size, placement of appliances, size of wheels, etc. against their library of drawings, and I think this is good. I also like the performance comments. It leaves us to decide if "started out jerky, but will doubtlessly become smoother running after running in" actually means "be careful , it may be a bit of a dog" . But the thing I am sure about is that the reviews push manufacturers to strive for improvements in their offerings, and I think you would have to agree that over time, these improvements have certainly occured.

[Anonymous]

On a scale of 1 to 10, I'd give them a 7. Many reviews tend to give too much attention to the positives and not enough to the negatives. Not that a reviewer should bloody the nose of the manufacturer, but errors and omissions should, and must, be pointed out. Many reviews fail to do this with consistency. No product is perfect.

As has been seen over the past few years, reviews of products in magazines can often be late because opinions from equally qualified modelers are showing up on forums almost as soon as the products are reaching the hobby shops. The difference between reality and the reviews is sometimes startling. Consider the differences between MR's review of Life-Like's SD60 and the numerous problems that model has had working in a consist with other HO scale locomotives. I'm tending to trust more what I read on forums more due to the wider variety of opinions from these equally qualified modelers (compared with the "experts" at the magazines).

While the magazines will deny it, there is internal pressure for them not to write anything too negative about a product from a key advertiser. Forum posters have little to lose; the magazines stand to lose advertising.

C424

[Eriediamond]

I take the reviews with a grain of salt sort of attitude. If the review subject is sent to them from the mfgr then I don't put much stock in them for the obvious reasons. However I do like them, in that I can see some new products I wouldn't normaly see.

[orsonroy]

In the good old days (1960s-1970s) MR's reviews were completely honest and reliable. They called a lemon when they saw one. Starting in the 1980s, the reviews became nothing but fluff rah-rah for their advertisers. This became intolerably bad in the 1990s. Thankfully, I'm noticing that the reviews over the past two months have gotten MUCH better. They're still fluffy, but they do point out the shortcomings.

Part of the problem MR has is the fact that it can't review everything. The sheer volume of released products would swamp the magazine. I do feel that they should occasionally publish a negative review, sort of a "product to stay away from!".

I usually buy Model Rail, published in the UK, for a different take on the hobby. Their reviews pull no punches. The latest issue I bought (February) reviewed a OO scale Heljan diesel, and they ripped it apart. The assembly was bad, the tooling was good, the decoder plug was installed poorly and didn't call out pin 1, the engine pulled well, the truck sideframes were "poor", the gear towers were frozen until they fixed them, the finish was a bit rough, and "the lack of paint on the buffer beams on a model of this cost is unacceptable". You don't hear THAT in an MR review!

[ClinchValleySD40]

I think they are pretty good. I've seen them do some bad reviews, so not all are sugar coated. It's actually one of my favorite parts of the mag and I wi***hey'd do more in each issue. I do get the feeling they might go back to a manufacture prior to doing the review and tell them it's going to be bad, would they like to have the model back to fix it. I'd be curious if they would have caught the bad fans on the original P2K GP38-2.

[Anonymous]

Anyone involved in attempting to make a profit/living from the hobby needs to be carefull what they say about a product produced by an advertizer, supplier or competitor. If you work(ed) in a hobby shop that sells a product that is less than it's advertized to be, it's poor businesspractices to bad mouth a product to a customer (if you want to keep your job). Likewise, your not likely to bad mouth an advertizer's product, if you want to keep them as a customer and similarly, if you are a producer of a competitive product, the public should understand your opinion is likely slanted.

Theoretically, the only way a product can be unbiasly reviewed in a magazine is when that magazine's sole income is derived from subscriptions and no advertizements are run. A subscription to these types of magazines is expensive! Although they claim to be unbiased my experiance has lead me to believe all people have a bias one way or the other, especially people who's income is derived from being an expert!

What to do? Like I said earlier, I think MR does a good job of reviewing the products in it's pages. We have to understand the parameters within which they must work and that everyone has biases.

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by lupo

[:)][:)]Thanks all for your reactions![:)][:)]

BigBoy4005,
you have a point on the hobbystore issue, but being a US RR fan living in Europe (the south-west part of Holland) , there are hardly any LHS selling US model stuff around here, the closest I heard off wich has SOME US trains should be in Amsterdam, about a 2 hour drive from where I live, so you don't pop in there on a rainy afternoon to ask if they stock the new Lionel Veranda Turbine ( that is where I got the idea about this post : I want it but is it really gonna be good, ? the only way for me to get it is: Mailorder by the internet )
So in this case I think I have to rely on whatever information I can get out of magazines and certainly on information I get from you guys at this forum, because of your experience and vast knowledge of the US MRR market.

You have a very good point there, and to you and any others in your situation, I apologize.
As one who models a prototype of a different continent, you are truly in an awkward situation.

However, your best source of information may not be the pages of the magazine, but right here on the web!!!! Ask your fellow modelers, they will give you there honest opinion without hesitation, and therein lies the beauty of this forum!!!!

It is not that I distrust the magazines reviews, I just sense that their close ties to the manufacturers causes them to lose some of their objectivity.

P.S. Lupo, at the risk of being labeled a hypocrite, I will no longer post to the DOS topic, though I still have pleanty to say on the matter. I have compiled some interesting stats after Dave's remarks, and will be creating a new topic soon, in order to share them with you and everyone else. In the meantime I'm going downstairs to work on my layout, which I have neglected for the last week, while nursing a rib injury.[:)]

[lupo]

BigBoy 4005,
Do you know other good fora like this where to find opinions on new products and manufacturers?

I think following the posts about biased info from magazines and "Never bite the hand that feeds you" ( I deleted that part in my initial topic- I would not insult MR magazine because I consider myself a GUEST on their forum)
that if most magazines do not want offend their advertisers by a bad review, they rather not print that review at all so that could mean that an "INTERESTING NEW PRODUCT" that gets no review at all could be of "not too good quality" . . . . . . . . . .

PS. I think the DOS thread has become something else during the last weeks, I bet most of us have "forgotten" where it was all about and It became kind of a running gag on this forum just for fun and breaking some kind of self-set record, a nice place for posting for posting sake ,and for now : you know what to expect overthere: kind of digital playground, where erveyone is able to blow off digital steam, feel free to post without being labeled a hypocrite. it is now just for post-counting and some record i guess.[:-,] couldn't resist to put in one of those!

PPS I am interested in the stats and topic what you will come up with! (did you get any usefull information from the DOS topic? that mostly gifs and numbers!)

[Anonymous]

I've bought several products that have been reviewed by MR. Unlike Car and consumer reports I suspect MR gets the product and runs it for a few hour, does the comparitive researche hauls it apart looks under the hood and writes the report. What the review does not do and probably can't do is Run the product into the ground to see what kind of endurance it will have. This would be the only shorcoming I would say I find with their reviews. We Don't know how long it will run before the wheels fall off. Follow ups would be an interesting aspect to the process, which would encourage some manufacturers to implement improvements or rectify shortfalls.

One has to be careful what they write today as the lible is a costly venture.

[Big_Boy_4005]

Lupo, this has been a fantastic topic! I understand how you might feel a little guilty or uncomfortable making comments against the forum's sponsor, but I think that they "can handle it". [;)]

They have been in business for 75 years, and I'm sure that they've heard worse. You never know, this topic could prompt some discussion during a staff meeting, I suspect that someone from the head office is following this.

It has been the general consensus of those that have spoken here, that the material published has been polite and mild, but that they feel that potentially negative comments have been withheld. I sense a potential conflict of interest is involved. The ultimate solution may be to stop doing reviews, or at least change what they call this material.

On the subject of the DOS thread, I agree, it has become posting for posting's sake, as is clearly evidenced by young Dougal's post count. Yesterday morning I plowed through all of the pages, when the count stood at 322. At that time Dougal had 55 posts to the thread, you were second with 28, Emeraldisle 27, Fergie 25, and me 24. What has happened is CP5170, the person who started the topic, and only posted to it that one time, has allowed us to illustrate his point. Were we baited into a trap?

Maybe it has become the digital LOBBY of this forum, where members check in, make jokes and chat in non-real-time. Maybe we need a live chat room, as an outlet to put some value back into the stars. It would stop simple number posting, which was one of my rants along the way.

I quietly made 500 this morning

[lupo]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005


I quietly made 500 this morning

If this was on the DOS topic I would treat you to a trainload of animated gif's and other goodies, but I told myself to behave outside DOS, so . . . . .