I know your post wasn't aimed at me because I don't drive a junk car, I'm married to a wonderful woman and I have a very good job, so your post must have been aimed at one of the others who posted on this thread.
I don't mind paying better money for locos that will last, and being new to this I sought the wisdom here and for good reason.
If a person can only afford an oval track and a Bachmann loco and this puts a smile on his face watching his simple train go around his village that he cut out the buildings from real estate listings in the local FREE reality books than more power to him/her, they are still enjoying the hobby.
there are different levels to this gig as far as I can tell, there are those who have built and added to their train worlds year after year and these are grand designs with much artistic value and loaded with beauty, and we can see the hard work that went into these labors of love.
Then we have the middle of the road layouts that are dependant on a fixed budget, these are beautiful in their own right also and show a higher degree of creativity due to limited recourses.
Then we have the folks who just do the best they can with what they have, their layouts may be sparse but they enjoy watching them run along simple tracks, and personally I think there is room in this hobby for all types and levels of Model Rail Roaders.
To pooh pooh another struggling hobbyist because they don't have the funds for the top shelf trains is bad form and I think everyone started out in this hobby the same way, with a train and some simple tracks that grew into the big layouts they enjoy today.
Yes one poster here seems to be having financial problems but he is still here and still trying to enjoy a hobby like many others.
Sure I myself had to get my life in order to enjoy this hobby and all my bills get paid first but I'm proud of my crappy little layout because when I get home from working on busted up people in the back of my ambulance I can start up my locomotives and ride my cares away.
(Foot note) I do have ambulances on my layout but they NEVER get any business....why, because this is my town, and I can make it what I want, big budget or low budget it comes down to melting my stress away.
some of my friends and family can't understand how I can do what I do to make a living and all I can say is, it helps support my other passion...Model rail roading.
This is not an attack on another's view point regarding the hobby, it is a reminder to ask why these people are into the hobby, there are a lot of reasons why people do this, mine is for stress relief because the Prozac got too expensive....LOL!
Lighten up folks, it's not like this is brain surgery, it's a hobby, and one that should bring many different people from all walks of life together not drive a wedge between them.
TA462 wrote:Master of Big Sky Blue, when people ask on this forum what is the best quality locomotives to buy are what are the responses? Kato, Atlas, Proto 2000, Athearn Genesis is what the majority of the responses are, correct?
Master of Big Sky Blue, when people ask on this forum what is the best quality locomotives to buy are what are the responses? Kato, Atlas, Proto 2000, Athearn Genesis is what the majority of the responses are, correct?
Correct. No argument from me there. They are considered in many circles to be Top Tier.
Bachmann really doesn't compare to the top 4. I only know 3 "teenagers" that are into trains and all they buy is loco's from the top 4. Turning a "new" model railroader onto a poor product isn't good for the hobby.
No the bachmann equipment doesn't compare to the Top 4. But Niether do several other "Quality" brands of model trains. You did not mention Athearn's Ready to Roll line. Or their Blue Box Kit line for that matter. Walthers Train Line, or IHC Steam Locomotives. Would you sir hesitate in reccomending these items to a new beginning model railroader? Bachmann's line of locomotives and rolling stock that is presently available, is the equal to this level of trains. But then maybe you think that since its not "Top Tier" anything less is simply "Junk"
As for the three teenagers that buy the top 4 that you know. I am relieved that their parents give them a large eneugh of an allowance to go buy such blue ribbon Items. Maybe they have jobs. But if they do, they probably don't have cars to make payments on, and if they don't have a car, they also don't have to buy the gas to keep it running, buy the thousand and one little accessories that you really don't need but have to have. Or If its a modern car anyway. take it to the mechanic about once every two months to have problems checked out, and if pattern holds true, have the mechanic do a botched repair job because the mechanic doesn't have eneugh sense to pour **** out of a boot with the instructions written on the heel. And thats just a Car. I won't even begin on the subject of how much girls cost.
This hobby isn't a poor man's hobby anymore if your looking for nice detailed rolling stock or loco's that run well. Sure you might be happy with your Bachmann but I would rather invest my money in a quality item like a Kato, Atlas or Proto. I know it will run very well out of the box and last for years. I still think your jealous, why else would you have made that comment.
I assure you I am not jealous. I just want someone to explain to me how anybody but the rich people can build an even medium bedroom sized layout that has a requirment of say 10 locomotives at the prices they now cost. No doubt you will also reccomond visiting a "well stocked hobby shop" and that means paying at or near retail. Lets assume the locomotives for this layout are GP Type locomotives. If we reccomond the "Top Tier" model that you advocate. A Walthers Proto-2000 GP7, 9, or 20 now runs $250.00 or there about. $135.00 or so for the non sound options. If you go whole hog its goingto cost you $1300 to $2500 Just in locomotives. JUST LOCOMOTIVES. That does not cover anything else that you need to purchase for building a layout.
Now assume a middle class kid of high school age. has heard about these model trains and his parents graciousley give him a 10X12 foot space for which to build his train layout. How do you expect him to pay for all things he has to pay for. Because chances are both of his parents are working and they have practicly no money left after the bills are paid. Chances are they dont even have anything put away for retirement. And you actually expect this kid who has been fortunate eneughto strike a deal with his parents to get the space he needs. to buy the wood for the benchwork. I looked into the wood for a layout of the dimensions I stated and it was going to cost me $650.00 for all the wood I needed at my local lumber yards. (I called both and both price qotes were within a few dollars of each other) The bundle of all the atlas track to buy the track needed for the layout new would have been another $600.00 dollars. And thats the expenses of geting train running. And then your going to expect hime to swallow $2500 just for the locomotives he needs?
I assure you I am not jealous. I just want you to explain to me how you expect the average teenager, or young adult just out of college for that matter, to be able to afford this? They Can't. And thus in 15 to 20 years this hobby will die, because the people we need to join to carry it on. Aren't. For $500.00 you can have your self the ultra uoober top tier video game system that will be the envy of your freinds and rivals alike. Its already going to cost me more money to build my bench work.
I invite you, no implore you to explain this. How do people afford model trains today? I really would like to know.
Lateral-G wrote:You hit the nail on the head with your demographic prognostication of me (except the house is BIG and NICE!)! (oh, and by the by, I drive 3 NEW cars....FWIW)How do you think I got all that money? By wasting it on Bachmann junk? Not likely. I got it by wisely investing in quality equipment. But, if you want to waste your money buying 4 or 5 POS Bachmann engines then that's your choice. I will gladly spend extra for a quality loco that I know will run. When I did N scale I bought not 1 but 3 kato Mikes because they ran awesome. Sure, I could have gotten, let's see.....maybe 50, Bachmann 0-6-0 switchers but every one would have run like complete and utter crap. Remember, you get what you pay for.But hey if you want to be thrifty and throw your money away go right ahead. In fact send some my way, I'll gladly take it off your hands and add it to my pile.
You hit the nail on the head with your demographic prognostication of me (except the house is BIG and NICE!)! (oh, and by the by, I drive 3 NEW cars....FWIW)
How do you think I got all that money? By wasting it on Bachmann junk? Not likely. I got it by wisely investing in quality equipment. But, if you want to waste your money buying 4 or 5 POS Bachmann engines then that's your choice. I will gladly spend extra for a quality loco that I know will run. When I did N scale I bought not 1 but 3 kato Mikes because they ran awesome. Sure, I could have gotten, let's see.....maybe 50, Bachmann 0-6-0 switchers but every one would have run like complete and utter crap.
Remember, you get what you pay for.
But hey if you want to be thrifty and throw your money away go right ahead. In fact send some my way, I'll gladly take it off your hands and add it to my pile.
Well I am glad I got something right. And you are right that you get what you pay for. But why do we try to get all the new people who try to enter this hobby to by the latest import off the Starship Enterprise rather than encourage them to do a good job getting a nice layout running using quality equipment that while it might still give them sticker shock, isn't going drive them off. Now I recognise in N scale quality steam is a problem. But not every new person is going to be looking into steam are they. Matter of fact most of the people that I meet that are my age that are interested in starting a layout are looking for late 70s to present "Modern Era" themes. Surely in both HO and N there are locomotives and rolling stock available that doesn't make you have to sell body parts on the black market to pay for them.
James
I figure save for an Atlas. To dodge the rich prices: model train stuff, wholesale trains, blueridgehobbies.com, fiferhobby.com. I'm not advertising, just trying to help out a fellow Model Railroader.
Sawyer Berry
Clemson University c/o 2018
Building a protolanced industrial park layout
Mr.Red Horse, I have never seen anyone take as many hits and shark bites as you have and come back with something like your last post. That post proved (to me anyway) that you sir, are an honorable man.
Regards,
Terry
Terry in NW Wisconsin
Queenbogey715 is my Youtube channel
Hi Red Horse,
I can not copy your last statement like everybody else does with my browser-Firefox-, at least I do not know how so I use the cut and paste method. Here is the statement:
Wow, what a big can of worms I've opened here...
I like the comment about this not being a poor mans hobby anymore....Geeze, you could have told me this BEFORE I got involved.
I am taking the advice of a few here, I will no longer buy the Bachmann junk, I'll save each week until I can afford a loco that will "run good out of the box" and "Run good for many years to come".
I tend to agree with the next statement also after much contemplation on the statement..." "Encouraging beginners to buy junk doesn't help promote the hobby".
At first I thought this to be a rude remark but when I applied that same line of reasoning to my other hobby of creating Native American artifacts I would have done the same thing if a new artifact preserver asked me about a cheap knock off of one of our nicer recreations, thanks, advice well taken.
This is a passionate hobby to say the least, if anything it brought up a lot of individual memories linked to Bachmann.
Oh and before I sign off, cut the new bees some slack, after all you don't want us to stay on the side lines of the hobby just lurking, afraid to ask questions, if we ask something that you have heard asked a billion times and you want to scream out your opinion out of frustration towards those of us who don't know any better yet, hold your keyboard onslaught and let some one who is calmer about the subject reply.
I'm in no way intimidated by anyone's replies but I will not be "scolded" like a kid touching someone's train.....
I will continue to ask questions, and why do I care what anyone here thinks, because it is you men and women that have the wisdom gained by experience, most of you folks here are "Elders to model rail roading" and opinions of the wise are valuable too me, and I thank you all for that.
Bottom line is, if your grumpy about a topic, hold back a little, to some one with a thin skin you will loose that person completely.
and for those who think people with very limited cash flow should find another hobby, don't be too harsh because YOU need people like US to buy the crap you no longer want...LOL!
Sometimes, I just crack myself up."
Just wanted to reply to your last statement which I believe are very wise words for all of us on this forum to live by. Very well put from a very wise man.
Thank you
Frank
"If you need a helping hand, you'll find one at the end of your arm."
Sometimes, I just crack myself up.
Jeffrey correct, unit history is on Evan Werkema's website linked at QStation. See http://atsf.railfan.net/gp40/ for the story of Santa Fe's only GP40. Photo is from Flagstaff, Arizona about 1985.
Ed
jeffrey-wimberly wrote: SSW9389 wrote: Jess: Santa Fe's only GP40 looked like this: It was a former TP&W unit and was on the Santa Fe roster from January 1, 1984 to January 1988 when it was wrecked. See If I remember correctly, Santa Fe picked it up third hand.
SSW9389 wrote: Jess: Santa Fe's only GP40 looked like this: It was a former TP&W unit and was on the Santa Fe roster from January 1, 1984 to January 1988 when it was wrecked. See
Jess: Santa Fe's only GP40 looked like this:
It was a former TP&W unit and was on the Santa Fe roster from January 1, 1984 to January 1988 when it was wrecked. See
dale8chevyss wrote:I've heard the Spectrum line is ok, am I right?
I've heard the Spectrum line is ok, am I right?
Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running BearSpace Mouse for president!15 year veteran fire fighterCollector of Apple //e'sRunning Bear EnterprisesHistory Channel Club life member.beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam
SSW9389 wrote:Jess: Santa Fe's only GP40 looked like this: It was a former TP&W unit and was on the Santa Fe roster from January 1, 1984 to January 1988 when it was wrecked. See
Lateral-G wrote: I know Bachmann from the 1980s and 1990s was complete junk. I know. I have half a closet full of it awaiting to be rebuilt. But the new stuff from about 2000 on is good stuff. So please stop berating it and calling it a dog before you have had the chance to try it for your self.For those of us that suffered through those times with Bachmann junk it's very hard to pony up the money and buy one of their new offerings without thinking of being burned. Call me "once bitten, twice shy" but it's going to take a lot of convincing to get me to shell out some bucks based on past those experinces. Especially when I know what I'm getting with Kato or other brands available that are proven......just my nickel's worth-G-
I know Bachmann from the 1980s and 1990s was complete junk. I know. I have half a closet full of it awaiting to be rebuilt. But the new stuff from about 2000 on is good stuff. So please stop berating it and calling it a dog before you have had the chance to try it for your self.
For those of us that suffered through those times with Bachmann junk it's very hard to pony up the money and buy one of their new offerings without thinking of being burned. Call me "once bitten, twice shy" but it's going to take a lot of convincing to get me to shell out some bucks based on past those experinces. Especially when I know what I'm getting with Kato or other brands available that are proven......
just my nickel's worth
-G-
Modeling the N&W freelanced at the height of their steam era in HO.
Daniel G.
Is this a lone unit or part of a Train set? If in a set, and there is a Hobby Lobby nearby, watch their internet site for their Famous 40% off coupon and go ahead and buy it. I have several Bachmann products, as well as Athearn, a Blue Line and some Model Power Metal Trains units and have been running all of them about a year now. If you do have a problem with a Bachmann unit, their warranty is a great thing - One year repair or replace for free, after that $10 to fix or replace. My last e-bay purchase died after 3 weeks ( a 1980's 4-8-4 steamer ) and they told me they had no parts to repair it, so a replacement was offered, and for an additional $15 dollars they would send one already DCC equipped. great customer service! Go for it if that unit is what you like, and be confident you will have a unit you will enjoy running, because you like the way it looks. It's your railroad and your money!
Enjoy!
Earl
I once caught a train in my pajama's. How it got in my pajama's I'll never know... (sorry, Groucho)
Master of Big Sky Blue wrote: Lateral-G wrote:For those of us that suffered through those times with Bachmann junk it's very hard to pony up the money and buy one of their new offerings without thinking of being burned. Call me "once bitten, twice shy" but it's going to take a lot of convincing to get me to shell out some bucks based on past those experinces. Especially when I know what I'm getting with Kato or other brands available that are proven......just my nickel's worth-G- And to make my other point. You probably make $120,000 a year. drive a new car. own a nice house (Not neccicarily big just nice) have a couple kids that are the joy of your life, and the $135.00 Kato wants for their new BNSF SD40-2 just doesn't seem like that much money does it.
Lateral-G wrote:For those of us that suffered through those times with Bachmann junk it's very hard to pony up the money and buy one of their new offerings without thinking of being burned. Call me "once bitten, twice shy" but it's going to take a lot of convincing to get me to shell out some bucks based on past those experinces. Especially when I know what I'm getting with Kato or other brands available that are proven......just my nickel's worth-G-
And to make my other point. You probably make $120,000 a year. drive a new car. own a nice house (Not neccicarily big just nice) have a couple kids that are the joy of your life, and the $135.00 Kato wants for their new BNSF SD40-2 just doesn't seem like that much money does it.
Many, many years ago, when the children were babies and my wife didn't work, I was "Poor" and in your shoes. After all the IHC and Bachman, and hand-me -down Lifelike and Riverossi, It was suggested to me by the owner of my favorite LHS to invest in a BB Athearn. I had very little $$ to spend on the hobby then, but scraped up the cost of the Athearn.
I took his advice and bought a SW1500. This loco ran great out of the box and still runs as good today (some 20 years later). As time went on and had more to spend for trains, I still would buy the BB. This was before all these great, highly detailed offerings of today. If I wanted a correct representation for my prototype, it usually meant modifying the Athearn shell or using Railpower. I spent many hours working on these Athearns. With proper detail, repowering and paint, you can have a fantastic loco that is up to par with most of the best offered now.
Of coarse there were those exceptions, all the Stewart/Kato F units, Atlas/Kato RSs and Geeps and the first runs of Kato itself couldn't be passed on.
Even though Bachman may have improved some of thier bottom line, you still can't beat the Athearn BB. There is almost no BB that I can't fix, repair and bring up to great looking and running standards. You can't say that about the "trainset offerings" They will undoubtably end up on the rip track or collecting dust in some box somewhere as you progress through the hobby.
Modeling B&O- Chessie Bob K. www.ssmrc.org
Red Horse: The GP40 you were looking at in your initial post is quite nice looking, even if Santa Fe never had any in the red and silver paint. I've seen these offered in the LHS I go to and they're usually heading up a 4 unit train. If it pulls like my Santa Fe GP40 #3507 does you'll be happy enough with it.
http://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/bac/bac00612.htm
Lifelike B&O Docksider
Lifelike ATSF Docksider
If you don't care about the detail level, this is a reliable little switcher, that doesn't go for too much. I bought one for 12 Dollars on http://www.trainworld.com before I er "powderized" it when comparing it to a commuter train... It is a great switcher, that is a good runner, just lacking in detail.
Alex
Guilford Guy wrote: Often at train shows you can get great deals on locomotives. There is one in Wilmington Mass in april which you may want to attend. In December there is one in Marlboro.Glad your happy. I believe youa re talking about an F7. You may want to look into Bachmann's FT instead, being a newer model. If your buying on ebay I recommend this sellelr for purchases- http://toys.search.ebay.com/_HO-Scale_W0QQcatrefZC12QQsacatZ19128QQsassZthefavoritespotI'm not trying to advertise, Its just a reputable seller who you can get excellent deals from.
Often at train shows you can get great deals on locomotives. There is one in Wilmington Mass in april which you may want to attend. In December there is one in Marlboro.
Glad your happy. I believe youa re talking about an F7. You may want to look into Bachmann's FT instead, being a newer model. If your buying on ebay I recommend this sellelr for purchases- http://toys.search.ebay.com/_HO-Scale_W0QQcatrefZC12QQsacatZ19128QQsassZthefavoritespot
I'm not trying to advertise, Its just a reputable seller who you can get excellent deals from.
Yeah, at that train show I went to, one guy had a nice SW1200 and idler car for $30, and a powered F-unit and two unpowered units all for $20. I didn't get either, but I got three cars for $12 and eight magazines for $2.
Guilford Guy wrote: Often at train shows you can get great deals on locomotives. There is one in Wilmington Mass in april which you may want to attend. In December there is one in Marlboro.Glad your happy. I believe youa re talking about an F7. You may want to look into Bachmann's FT instead, being a newer model. If your buying on ebay I recommend this sellelr for purchases- http://toys.search.ebay.com/_HO-Scale_W0QQcatrefZC12QQsacatZ19128QQsassZthefavoritespot I'm not trying to advertise, Its just a reputable seller who you can get excellent deals from.
- Luke
Modeling the Southern Pacific in the 1960's-1980's
Glad your happy. I believe youa re talking about an F7. You may want to look into Bachmann's FT instead, being a newer model. If your buying on ebay I recommend this sellelr for purchases- "The Favorite Spot"
I went ahead and bought the "war Bonett" GP40 after much weighing of the advice here, the train arrived this morning and I put it through its tests on my temporary test track and it did great, it pulled 21 cars before I could see and hear the differance in the locomotive.
So I'll keep the trains down to 15 cars that it can pull so that I'm not asking too much from it.
I was happy that I stayed with the sale, I love it and it has some good detailI figured out shipping and the cost of the sale and I got the loco for just under 15 bucks, not too bad a deal, the loco was new in the box.
Now I'm waiting on another type of loco with the same paint scheme, Santa Fe with the round nose loco. an A-7 type I think???
Well only time will tell how good a deal I got, if it keeps running great like it is than it will be a good find.
I also took delivery of a Army type switcher that runs well and pulls great, I didn't expect anything special for the price but when it arrived it was like it had never been on a track, no signs of wear.
Ok for a bit of history lesson here. Bachmann had about 3 different versions of the GP40 in the SF red and silver paint with the #6067 number. They started in the mid 1970's. Bachmann tried their hand at manufacturing a heavy 8wheel drive unit that would out pull the Athearn and Atlas/Roco GP's. They did come very close with a very heavy diecast frame, with 8 wheel drive and a can motor, no flywheel though. These were really nice running loco's and would respond to a crawl in low speed, a bit of noise though. There was millions of these sold in sets and of the shelf as single units, and were cutting edge at the time. And they were good stump pullers beside the Atlas and Athearn loco's.
For some reason, Bachmann decided to go away from this type of drive and go cheap then. They used the old shell and paint in the SF 6067 and other roads. They did the drive much different, then using a small pancake drive motor in a powered truck unit. These had traction tires also, but only one set of trucks were powered. Than ran ok out of the box, but did not like pulling more than 5 to 8 cars. Once you got the motor hot, it was over then, and it did not take much to smoke the motors either. Bachmann carried this line from the early 1980's through the early 1990's. The small pancake motors were used in GP's, U boats, Steam, switchers, and Cable car units. As some others stated Bachmann and Lifelike at one time were on the same page.
Bachmann also did have the "PLUS" line, these were really decent loco's for the money and had good motors and pulling power, quiet running also. This is where the Spectrum line was born then. Spectrum is a whole new ball game so to speak as far as diesel/steam goes, and was a long time coming for Bachmann. Spectrum was the answer for Bachmann to keep them in the MR community. Decent running and looking loco's for a fair price.
Bachmann has done some rework as far as changing the "basic line" in years past and made their GP's, F units, and other run better. This was done to changes made to drive units, and going back to their old school drive types with can motors and adding fly wheels to some, better electrical pick up. They did come out with new roads and paints, but again the detail is short on their basic line, but is not to bad. Quality control and problems have haunted them for years, this has always been a drawback and problem for them.
Red Horse, you are looking for an affordable good running loco, and that is great. If you look around at some of the online retailers, you can find the Spectrum line for a fair price, Athearn BB kits, Older P2k's, and Atlas are out there also at LHS, Ebay, Train Shows. This SF 6067 unit you are looking at could be one of the old pancake drive units, and you will not be happy with it, thats my opinion though. Good luck in your search and let us know what you do.
Well let's see, where to start.
Ok, to begin with, I'm filthy rich. When my locomotives acquire even one speck of dust, into the trash they go. Turn the throttle, even once, and they don't respond perfectly, I use them for wheel chocks to keep my truck from rolling when I jack it up. See, I won the lottery, twice, and use honeybees for toilet paper now.
Just in case anyone's swallowing this, it's at least party BS.
I never won the lotto. I don't even play. If I can't be the House, my money stays in MY pocket. I MIGHT have crossed the line between middle class and upper middle class when I retired a few years back, but I know enough to laugh at people who rag on "the rich".
Cuz 99.9999999 percent of them may HAVE a lot of money, but they are so upside down they can't SPEND a nickle without causing the collapse of three or four State's economies. Trust me on two things, or remain forever in the dark, and pay the associated penalties.
One, "rich" ain't NEAR as good as "comfortable". Two, you would MUCH prefer being behind on payments as a poor man, than being behind on payments and rich. People KILL you for screwing up with THIER money, happens every day.
Enough with that, back on topic.
Atlas, Genesis, BLI, Kato, Spectrum, P2K, MDC, Blue Box, straight Lifelikes, Tyco, Mantua, and AHM locomotives here, loved and desired in the explicit order listed above. One Bachman diesel, with genuine Grinch Stole Christmas livery, and it runs better than the Blue Box locos, but not as well as the MDCs.
Fact.
It's my daughters, she got it for Christmas from a relative I probably shouldn't kill, and really wouldn't feel right maiming, and it surprised me. It runs very very well, just a little noisier than the top brands.
Spectrums, 11 were tested, 7 got paid for, the others are someone else's problem and I don't feel at all "burned".
If it has moving parts, test drive it BEFORE you plunk down yer cash. When you get home, check lube, run it in, and test some more. If you don't like it, take it back. By accepting crap, you empower and richen crap-makers.
My two cents...
Red Horse I have had 3 Bachmann so far, my GS-4 where a steal for $80.00 each for steam. My Ge Dash 8-40 c was ok. Reason I sold it was it did not like one section of my track that was a 5 foot reach so off to E-Bay it went.
With the lack of luck I have had with $250.00 to $600.00 engnies I am looking at a USRA 2-6-6-2 with sound.
Depending on the cost might well be worth the try. Plus you cannot beat there life time warranty.
If I only had say $40.00 to spend and running DC and wanted to pull 25 cars or so? There be another Athearn Blue Box on the bench. I have 2 Athearn Blue Boxes F-7's with super weight draging 47 car up a grade as I miss spell. War Bonnets as well.
Cuda Ken
I hate Rust
Wowweeeee, Talk about some lively replies, they were all filled with great info, Buy, don't buy, I weighed this out and sounds like I need to go up the retail ladder just a bit further for a jump in quality, I'm grateful for all I've learned here.
If I wanted to experiment on Locos and such, buy the Bachmans too Frankinstien and get Athern to haul and run on my layout.
Well I'm off to the Athern site.....
Don Gibson wrote: Before you DEFEND something make sure you get your facts in order: (1) REREAD MY POST. it said "Theirs (Bachman) is largely a Beginners Toy Train Market" - or do you disagree?also WHERE did I refer to ANY orher trains as "real" (your quotes) ? REAL ones are 87 times larger, so ours are ALL 'toys, aren't they?'.
Before you DEFEND something make sure you get your facts in order: (1) REREAD MY POST. it said "Theirs (Bachman) is largely a Beginners Toy Train Market" - or do you disagree?
also WHERE did I refer to ANY orher trains as "real" (your quotes) ? REAL ones are 87 times larger, so ours are ALL 'toys, aren't they?'.
I apologize for the first blab. I did mis read your statement and there for reacted in approprietly. However toy trains impart a certain disregard for realism that I see Bachmann as trying very hard to leave in the long forgotten past.
As for "real" model trains. I was refering back to the discriminitory attitude that there is junk that thinks its model trains. Namely the 1980s and 1990s vintage Bachmann and non Proto-2000 Life-Like. and then "Real Man's" model trains. Athearn, Kato, Stewart Hobbies. and so on.
I bought the exact same Bachman locomotive that in question here about two years ago, and I will admit that I only bought it because of the price. Its hard saving up money when your 14 and only get $5 every two weeks, and when you finally have enough to buy something you spend it five times as fast as you earn it. When I first got it out of the box I was not disappointed. Ran real smooth and quiet. After a while I got bored with it. Santa Fe never had a GP40 in War bonnet paint and in my quest for prototypical cars and locomotives the Bachman became inferior to just about anything else. Athearn was the solution for me. The Blue box kits were just cheap enough for me to afford and looked like the real thing. Today Athearn is 85% of what I buy. If you want to buy the locomotive because of the price alone you won't be too disappointed. If you think you would want something more realistic go with the Athearn.