I am using paper ceiling tiles laminated together 4 tiles thick glued to a piece of old paneling to form the top of my benchwork and am needing lots of glue. Tha local hardware store here had there latex caulk on sale for $1.oo a tube and I bought all they would let me have and still need lots more. Even at $1 a tube I have used around 50 tubes and it is getting rather expensive.
Does any one have any ideas for some cheep glue that could be used? I am wondering about a water/flour mixture, but I have read here about the ''small varments'' that it might attract. The glue doesn't need to be a super strong stuff as it will only be holding paper together but I don't want them comming apart after I have laid track and done scenety.
Any ideas from anyone? Thanks, Mike
How big is this layout????? 50 tubes should be able to cover quite a bit of tile if you go fairly thin. Perhaps take a old "you are qualified for a credit card" card and cut notches in one edge. Have several pcs of tile ready, glob some caulk on, use the card to spread the caulk (it should spread the globs into tiny rows) and start stacking. If you don't need to carve the entire layout maybe just caulk the perimeter with a few additional spots at random in the middle?
Wish I could help more, but there is alot of caulk in a standard tube.
Maybe call all the local big box stores/hardware stores and ask if they have any outdated or damaged tubes for cheap?
What I get out of this.
Are you laying out the 12x12 tiles and trying to bond them 4 layers thick over the paneling to gain the 2" of thickness? I hope that these tiles are stacked to represent shale or some other feature and I have misunderstood you.
There's no extruded foam available to you? This seems like some way over kill to cover a layout this way.
If you are still looking for a large quantity of an adhesive I would try the 3 gal pails of ceramic tile mastic. This is relatively cheap and can be spread with a notched trowel saving the adhesive by making it go a long way.
If you still want to use the caulk in this way, I would use the notched trowel also. The trapped air in the notches will allow the glue to dry faster as well as allowing a good initial hold.
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lvanhen wrote:As a carpenter, I used to but carpenters glue in 1 gallon bottles for a lot less than the small bottles - try a contractor supply or lumber yard - don't bother with Lowes or Home Depot (I work there now) they don't sell large bottles. It can be diluted & brushed on - you don't have to cover every square inch - just weight it down for an hour or so. My
ivan just rung my bell, If you have any wookworking shops locally they may be willing to sell wood glue by the gallon! A place I used to work at used about 100-150 gallons a week and we would sell to a few amish furniture shops quite regularly. All the glue we used came in 55 gallon drums, and the one station (clamping machine that would edge glue and tighten the boards automatically) used upwards of 75 gallons a week.
Thanks for the input. The tiles I am using are the suspended ceiling tiles (2'X4') On the part I have done there are 70 tiles and will need about that many more. So far the layout is like an ''L'' shape, the first part is 15' long and 5' across and the long part is 21' long and 3' wide, this one will be the HO scale layout. I am bearly past the half way mark on the HO scale. I will need about 60 tiles on the N scale I am building in another room.
On the tiles I am running about a 1/4'' bead around the sides and making an X in the middle, a tube of caulk will do about 3 tiles.
What about the flour/ water mixture, will it hold or will it tend to come apart after a time? Mike
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mikesmowers wrote: On the tiles I am running about a 1/4'' bead around the sides and making an X in the middle, a tube of caulk will do about 3 tiles. Mike
On the tiles I am running about a 1/4'' bead around the sides and making an X in the middle, a tube of caulk will do about 3 tiles. Mike
How thick a bead are you making?!! You should be able to do 10-15 tiles minimum!! Be "cheep" and use a skinnier bead - or the carpenters glue! My
Wow, so you are covering the whole layout. A tube should do more than 3 tiles, I used to use less than a tube to bond a 4x8 sheet back in the paneling days. You can't change your method now, though, having this much completed.
I hope you are staggering the seams of each layer. The final layer will at least be somewhat uniform w/o humps an mismatches at the breaks. I would use some straight 1xs and weight them to help keep it flat. Any irregularities will be compounded with each successive layer.
Hi Mike, Why not use Elmer's Glue All or Carpenter's Glue. I get the Glue All in a gallon jug for about $14 bucks at the local lumber yard.
Paulie
BNENGR wrote: Hi Mike, Why not use Elmer's Glue All or Carpenter's Glue. I get the Glue All in a gallon jug for about $14 bucks at the local lumber yard.Paulie
I don't know if carpenter's glue would work as well for a good hold with this material. First the fiber back will suck up the glue and the coated white face actually won't allow any penetration. It would be a real bummer to have this thing delaminate down the road.
I use alphetic resin (yellow) glue daily for cabinetry and finish work. I find that ony unsealed, yet not too porous a surface will produce a satisfactory, lasting bond. Even end grains on hardwood will require a second application of glue as the material will suck all the glue from the joint. This is real critical for fittings on assy of rail and ballastrade and molding returns.
I'm not fully following here, but how about ceramic tile mastic? It comes in large buckets, is premixed, and can be spread with a notched trowel. I suppose it could be challenging to get it to adhere properly before the moisture gets sucked out by the tile. You could try it, anyway. I used white glue and a notched trowel to bond homosote to plywood, and used almost a gallon on about 72 square feet.
Jim
jim22 wrote: I'm not fully following here, but how about ceramic tile mastic? It comes in large buckets, is premixed, and can be spread with a notched trowel. I suppose it could be challenging to get it to adhere properly before the moisture gets sucked out by the tile. You could try it, anyway. I used white glue and a notched trowel to bond homosote to plywood, and used almost a gallon on about 72 square feet.Jim
Jim,
Tile mastic should work for this. It bonds plaster, foam etc. I see what you mean. The surface is not only porous but unstable to boot. The bonded layer could easily delaminate from the rest of the tile.
When you say a "tube", do you mean a tube like a toothpaste tube or the big tubes like for a caulking gun?
LD357 wrote: OK....my first reaction.....WTH!??? Why in the world are you using old drop ceiling panels? What are you trying to duplicate? You do know those panels fall apart when they get wet right? And thats going to add sooo much unessecary weight to your table. I think you should bag the ceiling panels idea and go get a couple sheets of extruded foam insulation board. You've already spent more in glue than several sheets of foam board would've cost and it would've needed only 1 or 2 tubes of adhesive at most to set it in place.
I was wondering why no one else had asked this question. What are you trying to accomplish by using this method? Aside from the potential weight factor, it looks to me to be a waste of resources.
Wayne
doctorwayne wrote: LD357 wrote: OK....my first reaction.....WTH!??? Why in the world are you using old drop ceiling panels? What are you trying to duplicate? You do know those panels fall apart when they get wet right? And thats going to add sooo much unessecary weight to your table. I think you should bag the ceiling panels idea and go get a couple sheets of extruded foam insulation board. You've already spent more in glue than several sheets of foam board would've cost and it would've needed only 1 or 2 tubes of adhesive at most to set it in place.I was wondering why no one else had asked this question. What are you trying to accomplish by using this method? Aside from the potential weight factor, it looks to me to be a waste of resources. Wayne
I'm sorry, I have to totally agree that what you're doing is a total waste of time, money and materials. No offence, but what you're doing makes no sense at all.
Jay
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Whoa, guys.
Jim Six is using ceiling tiles as the scenery base for his under construction layout.
Andre
All well and good, but four layers of tile to form the benchwork? Not the roadbed, or subroadbed, or even scenic landforms, but the basic benchwork. An explanation of the OP's intentions would go a long way towards mitigating further remarks. As far as I'm concerned, he's welcome to use a pile of soup to build benchwork, if he's so inclined. However, seeking cheap glue for the stated purpose inspires inquiring minds to ask "Why?" Perhaps we can point him to a cheaper and more practical solution, or, perhaps we can benefit from his experience and knowledge. I in no way intended my remarks to be construed as anything other than "puzzled".
doctorwayne wrote: All well and good, but four layers of tile to form the benchwork? Not the roadbed, or subroadbed, or even scenic landforms, but the basic benchwork. An explanation of the OP's intentions would go a long way towards mitigating further remarks. As far as I'm concerned, he's welcome to use a pile of soup to build benchwork, if he's so inclined. However, seeking cheap glue for the stated purpose inspires inquiring minds to ask "Why?" Perhaps we can point him to a cheaper and more practical solution, or, perhaps we can benefit from his experience and knowledge. I in no way intended my remarks to be construed as anything other than "puzzled". Wayne
That's true, Wayne. There are better and cheaper methods of making actual benchwork.
Something you might want to know. All I have spent on the benchwork is $20 for a box of screws. The framework is made from 1''X4'' lumber built on 16'' centers, I salvaged the lumber from 16 foot long shipping crates. The 2'X4' ceiling tiles were given to me for nothing, All I have is to drive 3 blocks and get them, there are several pick-up loads of them. 4 layers with staggered joints makes for a very sturdy table and very sound deading. Not bad I think for free. If I had all the money I wanted I would go with foam but all I can get here is 1/2'' for about $12-$13 each and to make the top 2'' thick I would have already spent over $200.00 so far.
The question here is not about the table I am building (it it srurdy enough to walk on) but as to an alternate glue. Thanks. Mike
mikesmowers wrote: Something you might want to know. All I have spent on the benchwork is $20 for a box of screws. The framework is made from 1''X4'' lumber built on 16'' centers, I salvaged the lumber from 16 foot long shipping crates. The 2'X4' ceiling tiles were given to me for nothing, All I have is to drive 3 blocks and get them, there are several pick-up loads of them. 4 layers with staggered joints makes for a very sturdy table and very sound deading. Not bad I think for free. If I had all the money I wanted I would go with foam but all I can get here is 1/2'' for about $12-$13 each and to make the top 2'' thick I would have already spent over $200.00 so far. The question here is not about the table I am building (it it srurdy enough to walk on) but as to an alternate glue. Thanks. Mike
Mike, you've already saved a bundle on salvaged materials. Why not do some dollar cost averaging by buying carpenter's glue in 1 gallon containers? Lowe's has it for 15.78/gallon. http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=41151-63-E705
exactly.
You could've built up the tiles just under the trackwork (for sound deadening) and build up the rest with cardboard webbing, wadded up newspaper, some hot glue and staples for a lot less $ than you're spending on caulk, (cardboard free from super market or liquer store). The plaster and paper towels to cover the webbing are also pretty cheap. Foam is not the only other way to build up terrain.
If you can get 1\2 '' foam then you should be able to get 2''.......even if it's a special order....you already spent at least $50 for adhesive, and you're looking at spending more, you should talk to someone at your local giant home improvement center about that foam. See what they have to offer, my local Lowes sells 2'' styro for $14 for a 4x8 sheet, it's way too messy to cut and shape for my liking, but used like you're using those drop ceiling panels it'd work much better.
We're just trying to save you a lot of time,trouble and expense on something that most likely isnt going to be satisfactory at all.
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LOWES .com Insulfoam 2" x 4' x 8' R-Tech Expanded Polystyrene R-7.8 Item#:15357 Model:15357
$24 a sheet
This is polystyrene foam, it's super easy to cut, doesn't leave a trillion little white beads on everything and it takes all types of glue easily. [except petroleum based glues which can melt it, I use latex caulk or Durabond white glue, a hot glue gun works great on smaller areas]
For about the same monies as you spent on glue and will spend on it you could buy several sheets of Insulfoam, the foam seems to be a better idea, easier to work with and will save so much weight, and would only require a couple tubes of adhesive.