Tank kills Pennsy steam Loco? Hollywood trains again!

[Rob]

Hey,

Anybody watch the show "Jericho"?  The new episode began with a tank being driven in front of, get this, a Pennsy steam loco...I think a K4. (There was a keystone on front) I am sure this was all computer generated, but the loco hit the tank and flew off the track in a blaze of hollywood glory.

Now for all of you train mythbusters out there, I was wondering if a real Pacific type loco (with train) traveling at say, 40-50 mph, hit a modern battle tank would it explode or otherwise fly off the tracks??? Even with all the weight of the tank, I don't think it would knock a locomotive completely off the tracks.  I've seen videos of modern engines split semi trucks (and other trains) like water balloons. I can imagine some major damage to the K4, but complete destruction????  Oh, the drama!!!

Well, I guess it is clear I don't have anything better to do!!  ----Rob 

 

     

 

[dinwitty]

boiler explosions have lifted the boiler straight off the chassis and land far away leaving the wheels still on the rails. If the collision ruptures the boiler it could go any which way, but I still doubt Hollywood would get it right anyways, its still all for effect.

 I have never seen a boiler explosion but I doubt it would be lots of fire explosions unless the tender used oil. It would be more like a lot of steam flashes the area as water escapes and expands to make steam as its under pressure and flood the near area with steaming water making a dense fog for a short while till it all cools.  All the water could stifle the burning coals in the firebox.

 

[espeefoamer]

Tanks are built low and heavey,so would do some serious damage to a K4. The loco would definately be derailed and would require a major rebuilding.The engine might even require scrapping,but would probably not explode.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[2-8-8-0]

Im sure the collision would be devastating for the tank and the people inside it, and it may well derail the locomotive (locos have derailed from hitting cars, so im sure a tank could do it also)

Would it explode? I doubt it. As has been mentioned a steam explosion could well result, but i dont think a "hollywood" type kaboom would happen.

 

[jimk]

Yeah I saw it.  I really like the show.  I know that M1s weigh in at 64 tons-and that is a pretty solid wall to run into at that speed.  It seems like the engine would have at least derailed, I don't know about it rolling the tank over like it did.  It seems like it would have pushed it off to the side. 

[mlehman]

That's my favorite TV show right now. Great to see it back.

The show's CBS website has some info on staging the crash scene. Don't have the link handy, but Google is your friend. I think they used a G-gauge loco to stage it, then CGI-ed the tank into it.

BTW, Hawkins bailed out before the crash. The dude is one cool character!

[dehusman]

A Pennsy GG1 at speed hit a bulldozer and all it did was derail the front truck of the G.

The tank probably wouldn't explode.  They are designed NOT to explode on impact since in a war they are subject to being "jostled".  Since a K4 is not a huge locomotive it would probably derail and pile up and the tank would be shoved to the side 

Net, neither explodes, but both are wrecked.

Dave H.

[jimk]

Ok, I just watched it again-you can watch the full episode on cbs.com.  There was no fire.  Alot of smoke though, and the tender did come off the track.

[BRAKIE]

As far as boiler explosions I had a uncle killed in a boiler explosion..The locomotive bell landed 7 blocks away in a guy's front lawn while chunks of the boiler was thrown for thousands of feet.House windows was broken for blocks around the yard as was the windows in the yard office and several yard buildings..The whistle was never located..I will spare the gory details concerning the engine crew,a switchman and a carman that was working in the wrong area at the wrong time..

As far as the tank and steam locomotive? The tank will win out and the locomotive would derail..Its reinforced steel.Everything else is Hollywood excitement.

[SteamFreak]

Here's the link to the "making of" video.

http://www.cbs.com/primetime/jericho/video/video.php?

This is a show I wanted to watch, but kept forgetting about, and I ended up so far behind that I didn't want to start in the middle. I'll have to catch up on the Sci-Fi channel.

So why are they running a K4 outfitted with an air horn?

[bportrail]

It was a fun episode!  I am glad that show is back on, and Hawkins is greatness!  The premise was the "Bad" town got a Loco working to launch a flank attack on Jericho.  Hawkins had the right idea, and drove the M-1 on the tracks to stop it.  It was a pretty cool scene!

 

Keith

[Anonymous]

tv is way over the top from reality, all cars on tv have some sort of device that when any wheel leaves contact with ground the entire car explodes in a huge fireball, i have worked on a lot of cars, i personally cannot find the device that triggers this, however if a locomotive would clobber a M1 abrams with a weight of almost 70 tons, it would give everything & everybody a huge headache at least. It is like watching the tv show Cops, i am amazed that the same pilot is always in the helicopter narrating the car chase or whatever crime happening, also even on wet or dirt-rock roads the tires always squeal.      

[tomikawaTT]

That's my favorite TV show right now. Great to see it back.

The show's CBS website has some info on staging the crash scene. Don't have the link handy, but Google is your friend. I think they used a G-gauge loco to stage it, then CGI-ed the tank into it.

BTW, Hawkins bailed out before the crash. The dude is one cool character!

Actually a 1:12 scale live steam loco - glad they didn't really wreck it!

What I saw in the, "Making of," clip looks pretty reasonable.  The K4 weighs twice as much as the Abrams, backed up by the mass of the following cars - and all of that punch would be delivered right at the front coupler, which isn't that high off the ground.  No question that both machines involved would be prime candidates for recycling (as scrap) and not much else.

Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)

[loathar]

As far as boiler explosions I had a uncle killed in a boiler explosion..The locomotive bell landed 7 blocks away in a guy's front lawn while chunks of the boiler was thrown for thousands of feet.House windows was broken for blocks around the yard as was the windows in the yard office and several yard buildings..The whistle was never located..I will spare the gory details concerning the engine crew,a switchman and a carman that was working in the wrong area at the wrong time..

As far as the tank and steam locomotive? The tank will win out and the locomotive would derail..Its reinforced steel.Everything else is Hollywood excitement.

A friend of mine had a book on steam loco accidents. It had pics of a boiler explosion in a round house. It set off the other boilers around it and leveled the whole building. Killed something like 30 people. What a mess!

[marknewton]

I have never seen a boiler explosion but I doubt it would be lots of fire explosions unless the tender used oil. It would be more like a lot of steam flashes the area as water escapes and expands to make steam as its under pressure and flood the near area with steaming water making a dense fog for a short while till it all cools.  All the water could stifle the burning coals in the firebox.

If it's a low-water/dropped crownsheet failure explosion, there won't be any burning coals to be "stifled" by any water. You'll be lucky if the grates and carriers even stay in the firebox.

I haven't seen a boiler explosion first-hand either, but I have seen film of one that was conducted under controlled conditions at the Coatesville, Pa. works of Jacobs-Shupert. At the instant the crown sheet collapsed, there appeared an enormous cloud of steam, soot and dust, shot though with debris from the firebox. The cloud completely enveloped the test site, and it was some minutes before visibility returned.

Cheers,

Mark.

[marknewton]

As has been mentioned a steam explosion could well result...

Why do you think that? How many instances where a collision or derailment has lead to a boiler explosion can you cite?

Cheers,

Mark.

[marknewton]

A friend of mine had a book on steam loco accidents. It had pics of a boiler explosion in a round house.

I'm taking a punt here, that you're referring to the incident on the SP at San Antonio in 1912?

It set off the other boilers around it ...

No it didn't - boiler explosions don't "set off" other nearby boilers, since they're almost always due to low water.

...and leveled the whole building. Killed something like 30 people.

All that damage was caused by one loco boiler, which IIRC suffered a fairly rare structural failure while under test - the lap seam on the middle course of the barrel failed due to grooving.

Cheers,

Mark.

(former boilermaker)

[dehusman]

Why do you think that? How many instances where a collision or derailment has lead to a boiler explosion can you cite?

The most famous example is the staged collision on the MKT between two steam engines.  The boilers did explode and resulted in several fatalites and numerous injuries.

Dave H.

[Tilden]

Of course it would have helped if he had put a round through the train.  One armour piercing round would take out the boiler front to back.  The loco wouldn't have traveled too far after that.

Derail...yes explode...no?  The M-1 wouldn't explode and if the ammo did go off it is in it's own exterior compartment with blast relief doors to vent the explosion.

Still cool though.

Tilden 

[Rob]

Guys,

Awsome video link...But what a bummer after seeing that live Pennsy steamer..I don't like my n scale stuff anymore!!!!  Just kidding, but I wouldn't mind having that set up to run around my house with a some hoppers hauling real coal.  I can see the grade crossing over the driveway now...working gates, lights, wow!  ----Rob 

 

 

[bportrail]

Ok, So I'm A Jericho nerd!  The M-1 didn't have any main gun ammo, his only choice was to block the tracks.  You can watch the first season on DVD  (Its good) to find out how a town got A M-1 in the first place. Also, an EMP disabled everything electrical, so the other town pulled the steam loco out of a musuem.

 

Keith

[steamage]

Did you hear the diesel horn on the Pennsy loco?

[AntonioFP45]

Jericho????

That show still comes on?  I watched it the first year (season). Interesting but just far too depressing for me.  Add to that, a number of the scenes were "technically" inaccurate (typical Hollyweird).

A K4 hitting a modern tank?  The tank, imho, would have the upper hand as it has a very low center of gravity and it's construction includes the use of high strength alloys. 

[MAbruce]

It's hard to imagine that having an upper hand in that sort of crash would mean very much.  With that much kinetic energy involved - both would lose. 

[AntonioFP45]

I should have clarified.  "Upper Hand" as far as the occupants' chances of surviving.

[Pruitt]

The loco was actually a 1/8 scale live steamer.

I've been a fan of Jericho since the first episode, but this nearly ruined it for me. The shots of the steamer were poorly done (the thing looked like a cheap - emphasize cheap - plastic model, not a live steamer) and the diesel horn as it approached the tank was just too much. Add to that the Pennsy Keystone on the smokebox door and what do you have? Crappy production quality!

If my wife hadn't been watching the show too, I probably would have turned it off.

[MAbruce]

I should have clarified.  "Upper Hand" as far as the occupants' chances of surviving.

Yeah, that was part of what I was talking about too.  I can't see how anyone in either tank or loco would survive.  The tank itself would likely end up a bit more intact, but any occupants wouldn't.  Well, at least I wouldn't want to have been inside to find out.  

[R. T. POTEET]

..........it seems like the engine would have at least derailed, I don't know about it rolling the tank over like it did.  It seems like it would have pushed it off to the side..........

Somewhere in my reading I encountered a vignette about an incident that took place in Germany; I believe this occurred just after the 1945 capitulation. An inebriated tanker decided to celebrate VE-day by taking his fraulein out for a joy-ride in a TD, got onto a railroad track, and high-centered this vehicle on a bridge. An American railway battalion had rebuilt a strafing-damaged German Loke and was out for a pre-dawn test spin. Loke came out of a curve onto the bridge doing about 50 klicks where it struck the TD a glancing blow rolling it into the water on one side of the bridge while the force of the collision derailed it into the water on the opposite side. The train crew had joined the birds prior to the collision.

This article said that it was nearly two years before the Bundesbahn - or whatever they called themselves in those occupation days - got around to retrieving both the TD and the loke from the stream. I don't recall the article stating the final disposition of either of these units but TDs were about 7-10 tons lighter than tanks so I would imagine that it had come out on the loosing end of this encounter and was probably junked by the U.S. Army; I am equally sure that the locomotive did not fare too well either. 

[jimk]

I noticed the diesel horn too, and that would have been an easy fix.  Wish they would get that stuff right.  As for production quality, I think it was pretty good.  The scene probably only lasted 15 seconds total, so they can't be expected to spend tons of money on just 15-20 seconds of air time.  And they did avoid having them explode, which was a nice touch.  It was perfectly beliveable they would have a PRR locomotive.  Steamtown USA in Scranton has a UP Big Boy, so a museum in Kansas could have a PRR locomotive.

Jim 

[wobblinwheel]

It's strange how Hollywood and Pennsy seem to have a "connection?" Any of you seen the movie "Lemony Snicket's A Series of Unfortunate Events"? (with Jim Carrey). There's a scene with the kids trapped in a car on the tracks and there's a Pennsy T1, 4-4-4-4 Duplex bearing down on them! I think someone who's in charge of some of these special-effects has a thing for Pennsylvania steam!