Sawyer Berry
Clemson University c/o 2018
Building a protolanced industrial park layout
Andre
And while we're at it, the UK is the only country I've seen where there is a model railway publication devoted exclusively to modeling railways outside the confines of the home country. Try publishing a magazine in the US devoted to modeling prototypes outside the confines of the United States. It'll fold after the second issue.
The ironic thing is that Britain has only about 23 million more people than the state of California. It doesn't take a great leap to conclude that there is a higher concentration of modelers and railfans in Britain than in the US (and probably anywhere else) especially when you see the number of modeling AND prototype magazines published there.
http://www.miniature-railway.com/
http://www.heritagerailway.co.uk/
http://www.peco-uk.com/Publications/RailwayM_this.htm
http://www.peco-uk.com/Publications/ContinentalM_this.htm
http://www.brmodelling.co.uk/main/default.asp
http://www.ipcmedia.com/brands/railway
http://www.pendragonpublishing.co.uk/
http://www.irwellpress.co.uk/
http://www.ianallanpublishing.com/pages.php?pageid=37
http://www.ianallanpublishing.com/pages.php?pageid=34
https://www.ianallanpublishing.com/pages.php?pageid=35
http://www.greatmagazines.co.uk/store/displaystore.asp?sid=397
http://www.steamdaysmag.co.uk/
http://www.railwaymagazine.com/
http://www.atlanticpublishers.com/gr/index.php
http://www.atlanticpublishers.com/er/index.php
http://www.atlanticpublishers.com/ngw/
http://www.connorandbutler.co.uk/railwayrecord.html
If only we Yanks had such an embarrassment of riches.
CNJ831 wrote: In response to my critics, let me say that in the final quarter of the last century, situations took me on trips to many foreign countries, including such places as Europe, Japan and Austalia. On each occasion, I purchased the available regional or the national train magazines and occasionally even attended associated exhibitions. I can relate that never, even once, did I find any U.S.-prototype articles there-in, nor personally observe any U.S.-prototype layouts.I've not made any ventures outside the States since about 2000 and will acknowledge that in recently years most of the old European manufactures have essentially priced themselves out of the market and passed from the scene as independent companies. Because of this, if U.S.-prototype trains have made some inroads as a result elsewhere in the world, I would still contend that their percentage among foreign hobbyists amounts to far less than the faction of Americans who are today modeling European-type venues. Certainly, U.S.-prototype modeling is not a major portion of the hobby outside its home country, as some here would seem to wish to infer.CNJ831
In response to my critics, let me say that in the final quarter of the last century, situations took me on trips to many foreign countries, including such places as Europe, Japan and Austalia. On each occasion, I purchased the available regional or the national train magazines and occasionally even attended associated exhibitions. I can relate that never, even once, did I find any U.S.-prototype articles there-in, nor personally observe any U.S.-prototype layouts.
I've not made any ventures outside the States since about 2000 and will acknowledge that in recently years most of the old European manufactures have essentially priced themselves out of the market and passed from the scene as independent companies. Because of this, if U.S.-prototype trains have made some inroads as a result elsewhere in the world, I would still contend that their percentage among foreign hobbyists amounts to far less than the faction of Americans who are today modeling European-type venues. Certainly, U.S.-prototype modeling is not a major portion of the hobby outside its home country, as some here would seem to wish to infer.
CNJ831
Your critics? Are you now a celebrity?
That's funny, I've been in Europe at least as often as you and the last time I was on the Continent was also 2000. I did go to the UK in 2002 and went to at least one exhibition then (not to mention taking a steam excursion behind ex-LMS 4-6-2 6201 "Princess Elizabeth"). As I recall, I have never been to a single British exhibit without seeing at least 1 US based layout. The venues that I recall fairly vividly are Horsham, Alton, and Edinburgh, although that doesn't exhaust the list. One particularly humorous episode was a chap who had painted up an Athearn SD40-2 for Network Southeast (this was just before privatization).
As for US articles in foreign mags (other than Continental Modeler), while I will admit it was over 20 years ago, I have seen an article on the Rio Grande in Eisenbahn Journal. I'm trying to remember others, but since I no longer have the magazines (I tend to read issues until they fall apart), it's a bit difficult. The EJ issue stands out because a picture of the CZ was on the cover.
From what I've seen, the portion of Americans modeling foreign prototypes is not high at all and anecdotal evidence would suggest it's lower than American modeling overseas. ETE (European Train Enthusiasts) sets up every year at the Roseville, CA, trainshow in November, but I don't recall any other train show where there was even one active European based layout. Modelers of British prototype in the US seem even scarcer, the exact reverse of the scene in Britain where, as I said, I've never been to an exhibition without seeing at least one US based layout. Then again, the same thing can be said for Continental based layouts in the UK. The Brits will model anything (just check out the latest issue of Continental Modeler).
marknewton wrote:Have a look at "Continental Modeller", published by Peco. Almost every issue features US prototype layouts built by people who aren't American and don't live in the US.
Looks like an interesting magazine.. I kind of wish that my local B&N carried that rather then the other British stuff they carry. looks like the current issue is about 40% US prototype and the rest from "other" continents.
Chris
wyomingrailfan wrote:Seems like everyone models Canadian or American railroads. Because everyone thinks US RRs are more exciting
Folks lets not get too carried away here. This conversation started because of the above comment. In fairness to wyomingrailfan the Kalmbach forum and publications are hardly the place to develop an unbiased view on the subject since they provide little or no coverage for non US prototype modellers.
I think it would be fair to summarize this thread as having established that some feel that very few modellers outside the US model US prototype, while others suggest that the numbers are perhaps greater than one might imagine. In other words we don't really have any hard data, but it is clear that there is a vibrant, but smallish following of US railroads in any given country.
Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum
CNJ831, you claim to have purchased the local model railroad magazines while visiting Japan, but have never seen anything in them about US railroading. You also stated that you haven't seen any US prototype modeling there.
To answer the second point first, Japanese seldom allow new acquaintances any farther into their homes than the formal parlor-reception room just inside the front door. You would have to become a trusted friend before being invited into anything as private as hobby space.
As for Tetsudo Mokei Shumi, maybe you were there during one of the few months when there were no articles, product reviews or advertisements for US prototypes in the magazine. Issues that feature American subjects are far more common, and more than one cover has been devoted to a US prototype. The one that comes immediately to my mind is a really impressive large-scale live steam model of a PRR T-1.
I'll grant that TMS text is heavy going for a person unfamiliar with printed Japanese, but anyone can read pictures.
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
marknewton wrote: CNJ831 wrote: I've not made any ventures outside the States since about 2000 ... if U.S.-prototype trains have made some inroads as a result elsewhere in the world, I would still contend that their percentage among foreign hobbyists amounts to far less than the faction of Americans who are today modeling European-type venues. Certainly, U.S.-prototype modeling is not a major portion of the hobby outside its home country, as some here would seem to wish to infer.Your contention is based on knowedge that's out of date and woefully incomplete - it's laughable.You like to present yourself as an authoritative commentator on the hobby, and yet you seem to know SFA about anything outside the US.Mark.
CNJ831 wrote: I've not made any ventures outside the States since about 2000 ... if U.S.-prototype trains have made some inroads as a result elsewhere in the world, I would still contend that their percentage among foreign hobbyists amounts to far less than the faction of Americans who are today modeling European-type venues. Certainly, U.S.-prototype modeling is not a major portion of the hobby outside its home country, as some here would seem to wish to infer.
I've not made any ventures outside the States since about 2000 ... if U.S.-prototype trains have made some inroads as a result elsewhere in the world, I would still contend that their percentage among foreign hobbyists amounts to far less than the faction of Americans who are today modeling European-type venues. Certainly, U.S.-prototype modeling is not a major portion of the hobby outside its home country, as some here would seem to wish to infer.
I'm afraid that it is you, sir, who is sadly laughable, coming off constantly a wise-*ss and acting as if you are always the ultimate authority on most any hobby subject, inspite of being isolated as you are. You may well know considerable about the prototype but please don't pretend, as you have here, to be knowledgable about the state of the hobby outside your own little microcosm.
I can only speak to what I have seen over the course of many years on numerous trips abroad. If you do not find that it meets with your divine aproval, that's unfortunate. I've spent many years examining the hobby's history and its evolution in detail, probably far more than anyone you've encountered (except for yourself, of course). Many others here don't care for my posts that point out unpleasant facts that are not to their liking but these remain true, nonetheless.
So, by all means, rant on in your typical fashion. I won't intrude further on your immense knowledge in this thread regarding the world state of the hobby...as seen from some obscure point in OZ.
Mark, I'm with you.
I can personally vouch that the Swedish magazine "Allt om hobby" which is as close to a model railroad magazine that we got do have articles on US railroads. So does the "annual". Now their isn't a lot of MR in those, I hardly ever buy them. But there are articles in them about US prototypes.
Magnus
CNJ831 wrote:In response to my critics, let me say that in the final quarter of the last century, situations took me on trips to many foreign countries, including such places as Europe, Japan and Austalia. On each occasion, I purchased the available regional or the national train magazines and occasionally even attended associated exhibitions. I can relate that never, even once, did I find any U.S.-prototype articles there-in, nor personally observe any U.S.-prototype layouts.
CNJ831 wrote:I've not made any ventures outside the States since about 2000 ... if U.S.-prototype trains have made some inroads as a result elsewhere in the world, I would still contend that their percentage among foreign hobbyists amounts to far less than the faction of Americans who are today modeling European-type venues. Certainly, U.S.-prototype modeling is not a major portion of the hobby outside its home country, as some here would seem to wish to infer.
I think that this might vary tremendeously in between countries. For example, in Sweden I would guess that we have more then average(note guess) due to the love hate relationship towards the US. A lot of people have a connection to the US. Countries with less ties or perhaps a stronger dislike for the US in general might be less inclined to model a US prototype.
andrechapelon wrote:Leave it to the Brits to have the only model railway magazine that is devoted exclusively to railways outside the confines of the home country. At least as far as I know.
Leave it to the Brits to have the only model railway magazine that is devoted exclusively to railways outside the confines of the home country. At least as far as I know.
Dallas Model Works wrote:People model whatever floats their boat (which is weird given that it's trains we're yakkin' about).Certainly there are a lot of people here in N.A. who model European railroads.The foreign has always seemed exotic and thus interesting to many no matter where one lives.What is particlularly interesting about railways (Canada) and railroads (US) is how integral they were/are to building these geographically gigantic countires.A happenstance of human and technological progress, but rail travel and the growth of these countries happened simultaneously.Perhaps this is at least part of the reason why North American railroading holds a particular fascination for modelers from other continents.That, and really huge honking diesels.
People model whatever floats their boat (which is weird given that it's trains we're yakkin' about).
Certainly there are a lot of people here in N.A. who model European railroads.
The foreign has always seemed exotic and thus interesting to many no matter where one lives.
What is particlularly interesting about railways (Canada) and railroads (US) is how integral they were/are to building these geographically gigantic countires.
A happenstance of human and technological progress, but rail travel and the growth of these countries happened simultaneously.
Perhaps this is at least part of the reason why North American railroading holds a particular fascination for modelers from other continents.
That, and really huge honking diesels.
Better you than the Chinese!
Fine by me(us).
True, True. The Chinese have a strong grip on the American economy. Thank goodness SOMEBODY (apparently Peco) doesn't manufactur in China.
No, lets give those big time money making jobs in model railroading manufacturing to us Europeans!
simon1966 wrote: Andre, it would appear that Peco, for a small company, are rather savvy when it comes to export. (The use of are in this sentence bugs the heck out of my wife, this is one of those subtle differences between us Brits and American English. She is of the opinion that since I live in the US I should use the US is in this case) I think it is rather impressive that they have such a Global presence. It is also rather nice to buy product that are not all made in China.
Andre, it would appear that Peco, for a small company, are rather savvy when it comes to export.
(The use of are in this sentence bugs the heck out of my wife, this is one of those subtle differences between us Brits and American English. She is of the opinion that since I live in the US I should use the US is in this case)
I think it is rather impressive that they have such a Global presence. It is also rather nice to buy product that are not all made in China.
I'm guessing the difference in usage is that Brits think of a company as a collection of individuals whereas we Yanks look at a company as a single unit.
My own wife drives me crazy referring to clothes in the singular (as in "that clothes" rather than "those clothes" and using "is" instead of "are"). I don't know why she does this as she's never been able to explain it.
marknewton wrote: andrechapelon wrote: marknewton wrote: CNJ831 wrote: ...Having seen a number of foreign model railroading magazines in my travels, I can vouch that I've rarely come across any U.S. prototype articles in them.Have a look at "Continental Modeller", published by Peco. Almost every issue features US prototype layouts built by people who aren't American and don't live in the US.Mark. There's no fewer than 3 North American related articles in the February, 2008 "Continental Modeler". http://www.peco-uk.com/Publications/ContinentalM_this.htmAndre, please don't confuse the issue with facts! Our resident historian has personally vouched that he's rarely come across any U.S. prototype articles in foreign magazines. So these three articles in one issue of CM are not significant...Cheers,Mark.
andrechapelon wrote: marknewton wrote: CNJ831 wrote: ...Having seen a number of foreign model railroading magazines in my travels, I can vouch that I've rarely come across any U.S. prototype articles in them.Have a look at "Continental Modeller", published by Peco. Almost every issue features US prototype layouts built by people who aren't American and don't live in the US.Mark. There's no fewer than 3 North American related articles in the February, 2008 "Continental Modeler". http://www.peco-uk.com/Publications/ContinentalM_this.htm
marknewton wrote: CNJ831 wrote: ...Having seen a number of foreign model railroading magazines in my travels, I can vouch that I've rarely come across any U.S. prototype articles in them.Have a look at "Continental Modeller", published by Peco. Almost every issue features US prototype layouts built by people who aren't American and don't live in the US.Mark.
CNJ831 wrote: ...Having seen a number of foreign model railroading magazines in my travels, I can vouch that I've rarely come across any U.S. prototype articles in them.
...Having seen a number of foreign model railroading magazines in my travels, I can vouch that I've rarely come across any U.S. prototype articles in them.
There's no fewer than 3 North American related articles in the February, 2008 "Continental Modeler". http://www.peco-uk.com/Publications/ContinentalM_this.htm
Sorry, couldn't help myself.
marknewton wrote:How did you go with that model of the theatre - did you finish it?All the best,Mark.
Interesting about Continental Modeller. Do you have mags that are published in Australia for the local modelling community?
As for the theatre, which is actually a Ballroom, I did complete the project and it is installed on the layout.
Morning Mark, well it is morning for me. I'm sitting here with a big grin on my face having caught up with this thread as I stumble out of bed. I have not been on the forum a lot this past few months but realize now what I have been missing. Anyway, having enjoyed that pointed sarcasm that is so well honed Down-Under I have a question for you.
When I head across the pond back to Limey for a visit I make a point of picking up Peco's British Railway mag and occasionally the Continental Modeller. My limited impression of Continental Modeller was that it is targeted at a British audience that choose not to model British trains. Is that a correct assesment on my part, or does this mag have far wider distribution outside of the UK?
marknewton wrote: Lillen wrote: marknewton wrote: CNJ831 wrote: First of all, in print you are only very rarely going to see any articles published dealing with foriegn railroading over here, simply because of the editors' concern that they likely would not appeal to their North American readers (just look at their history in MR, RMC, et al.). Having seen a number of foreign model railroading magazines in my travels, I can vouch that I've rarely come across any U.S. prototype articles in them.Have a look at "Continental Modeller", published by Peco. Almost every issue features US prototype layouts built by people who aren't American and don't live in the US.Mark. There are a lot of people in Sweden who do American railroads. Of the people I know, at least half of them have at least one American engine even though they might not model a US road. A fair bunch of people do model a US road and not a Swedish layout.I don't doubt it for a moment, Magnus. There are also a substantial number of modelers in Australia who model US prototype as well. But as another sweeping generalisation - Sprawling, panoramic, layouts so commonly illustrated in state-side magazines, are quite rare in most other countries. - made by our resident "historian" shows, he never lets the facts get in the way of a good story. Having made up his mind in advance of the evidence being presented, he's not going to yield an inch. So all those Swedish modellers of US prototype are probably just a figment of your imagination... Mark.
Lillen wrote: marknewton wrote: CNJ831 wrote: First of all, in print you are only very rarely going to see any articles published dealing with foriegn railroading over here, simply because of the editors' concern that they likely would not appeal to their North American readers (just look at their history in MR, RMC, et al.). Having seen a number of foreign model railroading magazines in my travels, I can vouch that I've rarely come across any U.S. prototype articles in them.Have a look at "Continental Modeller", published by Peco. Almost every issue features US prototype layouts built by people who aren't American and don't live in the US.Mark. There are a lot of people in Sweden who do American railroads. Of the people I know, at least half of them have at least one American engine even though they might not model a US road. A fair bunch of people do model a US road and not a Swedish layout.
marknewton wrote: CNJ831 wrote: First of all, in print you are only very rarely going to see any articles published dealing with foriegn railroading over here, simply because of the editors' concern that they likely would not appeal to their North American readers (just look at their history in MR, RMC, et al.). Having seen a number of foreign model railroading magazines in my travels, I can vouch that I've rarely come across any U.S. prototype articles in them.Have a look at "Continental Modeller", published by Peco. Almost every issue features US prototype layouts built by people who aren't American and don't live in the US.Mark.
CNJ831 wrote: First of all, in print you are only very rarely going to see any articles published dealing with foriegn railroading over here, simply because of the editors' concern that they likely would not appeal to their North American readers (just look at their history in MR, RMC, et al.). Having seen a number of foreign model railroading magazines in my travels, I can vouch that I've rarely come across any U.S. prototype articles in them.
First of all, in print you are only very rarely going to see any articles published dealing with foriegn railroading over here, simply because of the editors' concern that they likely would not appeal to their North American readers (just look at their history in MR, RMC, et al.). Having seen a number of foreign model railroading magazines in my travels, I can vouch that I've rarely come across any U.S. prototype articles in them.
There are a lot of people in Sweden who do American railroads. Of the people I know, at least half of them have at least one American engine even though they might not model a US road. A fair bunch of people do model a US road and not a Swedish layout.
Your right! I know my life was to good to be true. I'm just a figment of my own warped illusions! My God, wait until my wife gets to hear this. She will be very pleased to know that all those thousands of dollars I recently spent really didn't happen.
I plan to build one of those BIG US layouts this summer if all goes according to plan(the guy I'm gonna buy the property is hard to get hold of). So it is done here to. Look at Electrolove on this site, he is from Sweden and is building a large US layout. I do not have any statistics so this is a personal feeling. In Sweden you either model Swedish railroads or American. There are some doing German railroads as well. But I get the impression when talking to people that it's either US or Swedish. Now, the Swedish are in a majority there is no way around it.
Sweden is also a divided country, we either hate or love the US. Their are few people in middle. I have yet encountered a person who dislikes America but that model a US railroad.
P's Note that I'm not claiming these statements to be facts. They are just based on personal experiences and thus reality might be different, after all lets not forget that I'm just a figment of this forums imagination so everything I say should be taken with a grain of salt!
SteamFreak wrote: Dallas Model Works wrote:Perhaps this is at least part of the reason why North American railroading holds a particular fascination for modelers from other continents. That, and really huge honking diesels.And what about our giant whistling steamers?
Dallas Model Works wrote:Perhaps this is at least part of the reason why North American railroading holds a particular fascination for modelers from other continents. That, and really huge honking diesels.
And what about our giant whistling steamers?
LOL!
Craig
DMW