I went to the big Amherst train show today and had a great time! Got myself a second throttle for my DCC system, a BLI NW2 with sound, and a bunch of other detail and scratchbuilding stuff.
Also stopped at Tony's Trains' booth and discussed putting sound into a P2K GP38-2. Unfortunately I think I misled them and told them I thought I had an Athearn RTR GP38-2 - my mistake. They recommended a Soundtraxx DSD-AT100LC 820041 EMD 2nd Generation decoder and a "small oval" speaker and enclosure. This particular decoder does not fit in my engine - the board is too long .
It looks like a better board for this engine would be the DSD-LL110LC, or since I previously removed the 8-pin plug, the DLD-101LC, which is hard-wired. That board will fit the available space, but I may need to reduce the height of the weight just a bit. In any event, I don't see a way to mount the speaker without major frame surgery, possibly with the loss of the tail light. I don't even want to mention that I'll lose control of the number board lighting.
I think a GP38-2 would be a better match to the EMD 1st Generation engine sounds. Does this make sense?
If anyone has done an install like this, I could use some clues. I may go back to the show tomorrow and see if Tony's will exchange the parts or refund my money. I also considered mounting the decoder and speaker under the benchwork or inside some structure on the layout.
Jim
jim22 wrote:I think a GP38-2 would be a better match to the EMD 1st Generation engine sounds. Does this make sense?
davidmbedard wrote: For my customers, I use the Digitax SFX decoder. I remove the weight, bringing the unit down to an Athearn weight (plenty of power). I install the 1.1" Speaker in a diagonal baffel behind the rear flywheel. I then replace the lighting with fiber-optics and super brights leds.Every single customer I have done this to has been very, very happy. The last customer had a trio of NAR GP9IIs. We MU'd them together and he was on the store layout for about an hour grinning from ear to ear.IMHO, the Soundtraxx LC "yellow" deocders leave lots to be desired. They offer "2nd generation" EMD sounds and the like, but I can offer "EMD 567 12 CYCL" sound with the railroad's actual horn (from a recoding). A big difference. David B
For my customers, I use the Digitax SFX decoder. I remove the weight, bringing the unit down to an Athearn weight (plenty of power). I install the 1.1" Speaker in a diagonal baffel behind the rear flywheel. I then replace the lighting with fiber-optics and super brights leds.
Every single customer I have done this to has been very, very happy. The last customer had a trio of NAR GP9IIs. We MU'd them together and he was on the store layout for about an hour grinning from ear to ear.
IMHO, the Soundtraxx LC "yellow" deocders leave lots to be desired. They offer "2nd generation" EMD sounds and the like, but I can offer "EMD 567 12 CYCL" sound with the railroad's actual horn (from a recoding). A big difference.
David B
David do you find that the soundtraxx LC decoders have low audio output? I can't for the life of me get mine to sound as loud as my QSI decoders. (Diesel).
Lets take this one step at a time...
I went back to the show this morning and traded in the stuff I bought for a smaller oval speaker and a Digitrax SFX0416 sound-only decoder. Now my plan is to extend and deepen the cutout in the frame. Install a TCS M1 decoder in the rear portion of the cutout, the SFX0416 in the front portion, and place the speaker between them under the opening for the fan. I'll drive the light boards with the SFX0416. I THINK this will work, but it will be a bit of a wiring nightmare.
Now, David, I have a bunch of questions. Do you mean you remove the ENTIRE weight? Is the baffle you use a commercially available product? Do you have a link, picture, supplier I could go look into? Same questions about the fiber optic stuff you use.
Lastly, the sound file. The SFX0416 comes "preloaded" with sound for an SD38-2. A little research showed me that a GP38-2 might not sound the same. Now that I've switched to the Digitrax decoder, I suppose I could purchase the programmer, download another project file, and reload the decoder. The programmer is a might expensive ($110 at the show). There must be some brains in the adapter that goes from the printer port to the 4(?) pin interface.
Thanks for your patience - this sound stuff has a steep learning curve.
BTW, I also purchased an SFX004 "sound bug" at the show. It has no function outputs, but a better shaped package to cram into the GP38-2. I might use that, but if I do I'll have to wire the light boards to the track rails.
davidmbedard wrote: Would it be useful for me to do a Tutorial on strategies in using the Digitrax SFX? It seams that most people dont consider it for sound installs, where I use it for all my Diesels. If there is enough demand I will take the time to do it as I have 2 that have to be done for clients by Tuesday......and Athearn P42 and and Athearn SD40T-2. Let me know.David B
Would it be useful for me to do a Tutorial on strategies in using the Digitrax SFX? It seams that most people dont consider it for sound installs, where I use it for all my Diesels. If there is enough demand I will take the time to do it as I have 2 that have to be done for clients by Tuesday......and Athearn P42 and and Athearn SD40T-2. Let me know.
Yes, that would be excellent! I was not aware of the other sound decoders you speak of. I've only installed soundtraxx LC decoders and am only marginally happy with them.(audio too low). I have several locos with QSI already installed decoders and they are fantastic. That is what I want in a diesel decoder. Apparantly I have to buy an engine with this decoder in order to get good sound
Testing the decoder first, maybe, Dave? Typical stuff you might find when removing the shell that you would yank...or even make use of. Speaking of removing the shell, some of us have enough trouble doing that, or even getting them back on properly with all the decoder work undisturbed.
I could go on....
-Crandell
jim22 wrote:Lastly, the sound file. The SFX0416 comes "preloaded" with sound for an SD38-2. A little research showed me that a GP38-2 might not sound the same.
This thread is starting to collect great info. I just did some research on EMD and their engines.
I have concluded that what the sound decoder folks refer to as "1st generation" is the EMD locos with the 567 engine. The list of models includes NW2,3,5, SW7,8,9,600,900,1200, RS1325, BL1, GP7,9,18,20,28,30,35, SD7,9,18,24,28,35, and DD35. The GP, SD, DD refer to 4, 6, and 8 axel road power models. Note that this 567 engine had various numbers of cylinders and was available without and with turbochargers.
The "2nd generation" sound files refer to the EMD locos with the 645 engine. Models include SW1000,1500, GP15,38,38-2,39,39-2,40,40-2,50, SD38,38-2,39,40,40-2,50, and DD40.
There's a 3rd engine, the 710 engine, used in the GP59,60, SD60,70,70-2,75 and 80. I'm not sure this fits in with it or not, but mostly these models get lumped into the 2nd generation category.
The SD90MAC locomotive uses a 4th engine, the 265H engine, which is a 4-stroke.
So, the default SD38-2 sound I have should be ok for the GP38-2.
I'm looking forward to David's tutorial. If he takes out ALL the weight, I can certainly take out A LOT of weight. I like the idea of puting the speaker over the rear axel. That would leave gobs of room for decoder(s) above the motor. I'd really like to leave the motor/function decoder I already have installed alone. Besides, my layout is absolutely flat, and I never pull more than about 8 cars.
I agree, Dave. My reply was in the form of examples of things I would like to see done, and that others may, too. I have no experience whatsoever. I know that some guides say you should test the decoder first....is this your practice? IOW, I am suggesting things that you may want to include in your tutorial as per your parting question on your last post before mine.
We keep getting questions, basic ones, about how do I get the shell off...is there a general rule of thumb to get plastic shells of a Genesis, an Atlas, vs. a Walther P2K? That sort of thing that might help the real newbie get going.
Thanks for offering to do this.
I think your last description is the first one I have seen that explains it as neatly as that. I knew about the tabs, and lugs, but the coupler pockets part was brand new on me.
I know that steamers can be tricky, too. (gulp!)
Thanks, Dave.
David,
Your tutorial in the other thread is great. It looks like that one was easy compared to the GP38 with the narrow shell. I have a Blue Box Athearn GP-38 as well, and it's got a slightly wider frame. Of course, it also has no weights. If it weren't so loud (gear and motor noise), I'd put my sound system in that one instead. I haven't yet dissassembled the P2K to take the weight out and see where the speaker baffle might fit. I suppose that's the advantage of the amateur: I can afford the time to stew about the project for a while.
If you get a chance, please post a photo of a speaker baffle similar to the one you describe "mounted diagonally behind the rear flywheel".
Thanks very much!
SD38-2's and GP38-2's do not have turbos. The 39 and 40 series have turbos.
Keith Turley/ Details West
Ok, I've measured, drawn scale drawings, envisioned in 3D, etc. etc. The 1.1 inch round speaker that comes with the Digitrax does not appear to clear the drive shaft in the GP38 - even if mounted inside the baffle. The shell is 1.125 in. high and 0.75 in wide. The drive shaft is 0.250 in dia. and the center of the drive shaft is 0.0.375 in above the frame. Well, nevermind, I don't think it will fit short of dissassembling everything and trying it (which could come later).
I do have another option. I bought a mini-oval from Tonys at the train show. Tonight I made a rectangular baffle 0.5 in. high, 1.125 in long, and as wide as the frame. The baffle is .020 in styrene, and I (temporarily) sealed the speaker inside the baffle to the face with double-stick foam tape. I tried the assembly (not in the engine) just sitting on the benchtop, and it sounded pretty darn good! I don't think the weight modification will be too bad either.
The only problem with it is there's a mounting post inside the frame which interferes with my baffle. I think I can make a cutout in my baffle lined with a length of styrene tubing to allow the shell to be installed over it.
Anyway, I think there's hope... Thanks for the example...
Driline wrote: I've only installed soundtraxx LC decoders and am only marginally happy with them.(audio too low).
I've only installed soundtraxx LC decoders and am only marginally happy with them.(audio too low).
I know what you mean. I have installed an LC in one of my shays and found that it was not as loud as the QSI steam decoders. At first this bugged me, but as I began to run lots of sound steam locos I ended up turning down the QSIs to match the volume of the LC. I ended up liking things a little less loud than I thought I would in the beginning.
As Dave mentioned in his demos, speaker baffles make all the difference both in volume and in sound quality.
For some reason the QSIs seemed to come from the factory cranked up pretty loud. Makes a great show for a while but is a little tiring to my ears in the long haul.....
BTW: The steam Tsunami is quite a bit louder than the LCs.
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
QSI's loud? When I got my P2K 0-8-0 home a year ago, it was my first sound engine. I was so excited, I ran it for an hour or so as set up at the factory. The thing was so loud it hurt my ears. I eventually was forced to figure out how to lower the volume. Even really loud the sound was good though.
I'm afraid I've been spoiled by the QSI sound. As mentioned above I'm busy putting a Digitrax SFX0416 into an engine. It seems to have a bunch of software quirks. I emailed Digitrax last night, and got a prompt - but useless - response. I'm going to hook up the SFX004 sound bug and see if it's got the same issues. I'll post a review when I finish.