Please guys, lets keep this civil! I realize some people want nothing to do with the "cheap stuff" while others can't live without it. its a matter of preference and the size of your wallet. but mostly the size of your wallet. What that means is that some of us can only afford the lower-end quality stuff, so we make do with what we have. those of us that can afford the Expensive stuff can buy that if they want. What i'm interested in seeing is pics of the low end stuff that people have used and modified to make better as a way to inspire everyone else. If you don't like the cheap stuff, that's fine, but keep it civil when you respond.
"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot Visit my blog! http://becomingawarriorpoet.blogspot.com
LD357 wrote: Whatever Dryline. Everyone saw your post and judging by the emails I got, you had a few of them laughing heartily. I've posted pics of my work on here already, and I have better things to do than bandy words with the likes of you, so take your crayons and go bother someone else.
Whatever Dryline.
Everyone saw your post and judging by the emails I got, you had a few of them laughing heartily.
I've posted pics of my work on here already, and I have better things to do than bandy words with the likes of you, so take your crayons and go bother someone else.
SpaceMouse wrote: Joe Fugate explained to me this way once. You can have it good.You can have it fast.You can have it cheap.You can pick any two of the above.
Joe Fugate explained to me this way once.
You can have it good.
You can have it fast.
You can have it cheap.
You can pick any two of the above.
That's an old printers saying.
Price, quality, service...Pick any two...
I think Autobus makes a good point in one of his earlier posts. Reworking the cheaper stuff is a good way to quickly add some operating interest to your layout.
In the 90's i built an L shape 12'x14' shelf layout, i quickly got tired of seeing the same cars come into to town (from staging) all the time. I went to some train shows and bought some cheap cars and reworked them. Being on a tight budget at the time, i was able to routinely swap cars from staging. This made my layout seem more "connected" to the rest of the world.
You don't have to keep these cars on the roster forever. Since then i've retired or given most of these cars to my nephew as i replaced them with the better cars.
wyomingrailfan wrote:cheap stuff+no realism+toy like=GET IT AWAY FROM ME!
Case in point: You chose good and fast.
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
Autobus Prime wrote: Brad:Where's the "EXCEEDS PLATE C" on the crayon train?
Brad:
Where's the "EXCEEDS PLATE C" on the crayon train?
*** RIVET Counters!
If I had the material for grab irons and enough talgo coupler conversion kits, I'd have over 75 freight cars.
I have 37 of the older stuff, and I feel like I need to dedicate the layout funds to actually building a layout, not to upgrading cheap stuff.
Although I do use some cheap buildings.
Vincent
Wants: 1. high-quality, sound equipped, SD40-2s, C636s, C30-7s, and F-units in BN. As for ones that don't cost an arm and a leg, that's out of the question....
2. An end to the limited-production and other crap that makes models harder to get and more expensive.
LD357 wrote: Ok smart guy...where did I say I had done any detailing on a Tyco car? If you had read you would of seen that I said ''I have seen Tyco cars detailed'' and, I said ''90% of modellers can do an excellent job''...not ''anybody''....so do you want to apologize now or just let everyone continue laughing at you? It's obvious from your last statement that you have a huge inferiority complex and absolutely zero confidence in your work. I don't generally detail anything, I add some stuff like loads and handrails to some cars...but I don't go all out, I could, but I just don't have the desire to. I've been building models [armor, aircraft,ships and dioramas] for over 30 years, I WOULD put my work up against a ''pro'' and I have. I have several models on display and have sold completed models and dioramas. Since you seem to lack confidence in your work you must be one of the ''10 percenters''. The only advice I can give is...keep trying, maybe someday you''ll gain some confindence and be able too ''put your stuff up against the pros''.
It's obvious from your last statement that you have a huge inferiority complex and absolutely zero confidence in your work.
I don't generally detail anything, I add some stuff like loads and handrails to some cars...but I don't go all out, I could, but I just don't have the desire to.
I've been building models [armor, aircraft,ships and dioramas] for over 30 years, I WOULD put my work up against a ''pro'' and I have. I have several models on display and have sold completed models and dioramas.
Since you seem to lack confidence in your work you must be one of the ''10 percenters''. The only advice I can give is...keep trying, maybe someday you''ll gain some confindence and be able too ''put your stuff up against the pros''.
My my my .......we just ASSUME everything here now don't we?
Hmmm lets see here now...I've got an inferiority complex...0 confidence in my work.....people are laughing at me.... Did I miss anything? Oh good, I think I got it all.
Well "smart guy" I am willing to put my money where my mouth is... unlike YOU.
Here's a recent train model I just completed for my HO layout. Now I don't have a mashima motor mounted in it yet or prototypical flanges on the wheelsets, but I plan to put those on next week. PLEASE FEEL FREE TO CRITICIZE. Any and all comments welcome....
Oh, and as far as people laughing at me......Well some say I have a rather striking resemblence to Brad Pitt....
Oh man what a thread. IMO if you like the cheap stuff go for it, if you like only the best go for it. But as for me I'm old school and like making it "MY" way. If I find something I like I pick it up. If I can't find what I'm looking for, I'll make it. If you have the talent to build what you want, go for it. If you want to learn how to do something, do it. If you want to throw money at it, go for it.
For some of us building or kitbashing is the most enjoyable part of this hobby. But who ever you are you buy or make what you like to buy or build because it makes you happy. Its just the way you like to do things. If your happy bashing your head against a wall, go for it. Who am I to stop you.
Just remember I only want to make myself happy and if I make you happy while I'm doing it, That's a bonus.
Johnnny_reb Once a word is spoken it can not be unspoken!
My Train Page My Photobucket Page My YouTube Channel
reklein wrote:A hotdog on a gold plate is still a hotdog.As far as buying the expensive stuf, Spectrum locos run far better than my stock brass locos. But if you put a Tyco on Kadee trucks and couplers now you've got something. Hmm, it just occured to me that maybe one could put a brass superstructure on a Spectrum mechanism and really ahve something. But,you gotta like building.
r:
Yes, but if it's either a hotdog or nothing I'll take the hotdog, and I've still got the gold plate to serve roast beef on later.
Folks:
I feel we are going off on a Tyco tangent here; more specifically, a detail tangent.
This modeler appreciates quality very much. However, through a series of historical accidents , my active V&E roster currently consists of about a dozen Life-Like and Tyco trainset cars. These were all obtained from train shows for under $2, and the average price was probably 75 cents (a good many came in a mixed lot). While their operating qualities are not ideal, I have checked the wheels for gauge and free rolling, cut off many troublesome truckmount couplers and glued them to the frame, and weighted the cars with Lincoln weights, and after this work they do stay on the track.
While some may sneer at my rolling stock, at its big chunky stirrups and shiny black trucks, and at the Tootsie Roll boxcar or yellow UP hopper, the fact is that for the price of lunch for two at McDonalds, or a single high-quality kit, I am running trains. Had I waited for the good stuff, I'd still be waiting.
Bit by bit, I improve things. I will equip them with Kadee couplers, and decent-quality trucks are on order. When the trainset stock is finally retired, I'll use these components on scratchbuilt cars. No loss except time, and not much of that, and even then, it's not a loss, because it's doing something I enjoy.
Meanwhile, I note down the Tootsie Roll boxcar as "TR 4131" or whatever on its car card, and handle it like any other boxcar. Empties are sent toward the Tootsie Roll factory in Chicago. Perhaps there is realism even in this. If I'm acting as a railroader, rather than a railfan, it doesn't matter a whole lot if a car is lettered Rock Island or SLGG. The point is to get it there.
Driline wrote: LD357 wrote: Driline wrote: BlueHillsCPR wrote: JON168 wrote: "You get what you pay for"? So this would mean the more expensive the better?That's not what I said is it? Please don't try to put words in my mouth. It's a figure of speech. I 2nd your statement. Garbage in = Garbage out. Yes, I'm sure you can professionaly detail cardboard and paper or an old "Tyco" building to look fantastic. Only problem is most of those doing it don't have the skill to accomplish a believable representation of the final product. Sure go spend 20 bucks on supplies to make a 2 dollar building look great. ButA) One needs talent & experienceB) You also need a plethora of old extra parts bashed from previous kits etc. etc.You have the other side of the coin too. A nice "laser Art" $70 dollar building can still look like crap if the builder has no practice or talent and just simply slaps it together.It really boils down to the artistic talent of the builder I think. OHHH puh-leeez!! I've seen those fancy high dollar kits that look like a 2 yr. old assembled them, and I've seen the dreaded ''T'' word cars detailed so nicely they looked absolutely real! It doesn't take a huge amount of skill to detail a car, with the amount of parts availible and the instructions and pictures 90% of modellers can do an excellent job. I saw a couple of ''T'' word centerflow hoppers that were detailed and they made those Athearn BB kits look like WalMart toys! And it didn't cost much at all to do it. If you think that the cheaper cars are ''garbage'' then you're missing the point of modelling and and an important aspect of the hobby.Ok smart guy. PUT your money where your mouth is. Lets see a "Tyco" boxcar that YOU personally have detailed. I say it takes time, experience and mostly talent. I've seen a few modelers here who's stuff looks like a 1st grader colored it with crayons, so don't say ANYBODY can detail. I've been detailing off an on for 20 years and I wouldn't dare put my stuff up against the pro's.
LD357 wrote: Driline wrote: BlueHillsCPR wrote: JON168 wrote: "You get what you pay for"? So this would mean the more expensive the better?That's not what I said is it? Please don't try to put words in my mouth. It's a figure of speech. I 2nd your statement. Garbage in = Garbage out. Yes, I'm sure you can professionaly detail cardboard and paper or an old "Tyco" building to look fantastic. Only problem is most of those doing it don't have the skill to accomplish a believable representation of the final product. Sure go spend 20 bucks on supplies to make a 2 dollar building look great. ButA) One needs talent & experienceB) You also need a plethora of old extra parts bashed from previous kits etc. etc.You have the other side of the coin too. A nice "laser Art" $70 dollar building can still look like crap if the builder has no practice or talent and just simply slaps it together.It really boils down to the artistic talent of the builder I think. OHHH puh-leeez!! I've seen those fancy high dollar kits that look like a 2 yr. old assembled them, and I've seen the dreaded ''T'' word cars detailed so nicely they looked absolutely real! It doesn't take a huge amount of skill to detail a car, with the amount of parts availible and the instructions and pictures 90% of modellers can do an excellent job. I saw a couple of ''T'' word centerflow hoppers that were detailed and they made those Athearn BB kits look like WalMart toys! And it didn't cost much at all to do it. If you think that the cheaper cars are ''garbage'' then you're missing the point of modelling and and an important aspect of the hobby.
Driline wrote: BlueHillsCPR wrote: JON168 wrote: "You get what you pay for"? So this would mean the more expensive the better?That's not what I said is it? Please don't try to put words in my mouth. It's a figure of speech. I 2nd your statement. Garbage in = Garbage out. Yes, I'm sure you can professionaly detail cardboard and paper or an old "Tyco" building to look fantastic. Only problem is most of those doing it don't have the skill to accomplish a believable representation of the final product. Sure go spend 20 bucks on supplies to make a 2 dollar building look great. ButA) One needs talent & experienceB) You also need a plethora of old extra parts bashed from previous kits etc. etc.You have the other side of the coin too. A nice "laser Art" $70 dollar building can still look like crap if the builder has no practice or talent and just simply slaps it together.It really boils down to the artistic talent of the builder I think.
BlueHillsCPR wrote: JON168 wrote: "You get what you pay for"? So this would mean the more expensive the better?That's not what I said is it? Please don't try to put words in my mouth. It's a figure of speech.
JON168 wrote: "You get what you pay for"? So this would mean the more expensive the better?
"You get what you pay for"?
So this would mean the more expensive the better?
That's not what I said is it? Please don't try to put words in my mouth.
It's a figure of speech.
I 2nd your statement. Garbage in = Garbage out.
Yes, I'm sure you can professionaly detail cardboard and paper or an old "Tyco" building to look fantastic. Only problem is most of those doing it don't have the skill to accomplish a believable representation of the final product. Sure go spend 20 bucks on supplies to make a 2 dollar building look great. But
A) One needs talent & experience
B) You also need a plethora of old extra parts bashed from previous kits etc. etc.
You have the other side of the coin too. A nice "laser Art" $70 dollar building can still look like crap if the builder has no practice or talent and just simply slaps it together.
It really boils down to the artistic talent of the builder I think.
OHHH puh-leeez!! I've seen those fancy high dollar kits that look like a 2 yr. old assembled them, and I've seen the dreaded ''T'' word cars detailed so nicely they looked absolutely real! It doesn't take a huge amount of skill to detail a car, with the amount of parts availible and the instructions and pictures 90% of modellers can do an excellent job. I saw a couple of ''T'' word centerflow hoppers that were detailed and they made those Athearn BB kits look like WalMart toys! And it didn't cost much at all to do it.
If you think that the cheaper cars are ''garbage'' then you're missing the point of modelling and and an important aspect of the hobby.
Ok smart guy. PUT your money where your mouth is. Lets see a "Tyco" boxcar that YOU personally have detailed. I say it takes time, experience and mostly talent. I've seen a few modelers here who's stuff looks like a 1st grader colored it with crayons, so don't say ANYBODY can detail. I've been detailing off an on for 20 years and I wouldn't dare put my stuff up against the pro's.
Ok smart guy...where did I say I had done any detailing on a Tyco car? If you had read you would of seen that I said ''I have seen Tyco cars detailed'' and, I said ''90% of modellers can do an excellent job''...not ''anybody''....so do you want to apologize now or just let everyone continue laughing at you?
Bob Berger, C.O.O. N-ovation & Northwestern R.R. My patio layout....SEE IT HERE
There's no place like ~/ ;)
eeyore9900 wrote:One thing to keep in mind also-sometimes the only model available of a proto is something of the cheaper variety. Case in point, ACF 50' single door boxcars. The the only model available to my knowledge that's correct for modeling the majority "Plate C" cars is the Atlas Trainman series, & the Athearn BB series are "Plate B" cars. (for those of you who like to be correct on those things )If a better quality version becomes available, such as higher end Atlas & Athearn, or IM, I'd be one of the 1st to jump at them. But as it is, that's not the case. So in the meantime, in order to replicate those ACFs, I've had to use those cars. I've just did my best to replace details such as stirrups, & use some "forced perspective" on the molded in ladders (shadowing with paint.) You probably seen my latest on WPF:Now for those Athearn BB kits I have several of-maybe good candidates for some Seico conversions (ends) & maybe a kitbash of one of the rarest of rare Railboxes-a Plate "B" USRM built car (less than 50 built)Just my 2
One thing to keep in mind also-sometimes the only model available of a proto is something of the cheaper variety. Case in point, ACF 50' single door boxcars. The the only model available to my knowledge that's correct for modeling the majority "Plate C" cars is the Atlas Trainman series, & the Athearn BB series are "Plate B" cars. (for those of you who like to be correct on those things )
If a better quality version becomes available, such as higher end Atlas & Athearn, or IM, I'd be one of the 1st to jump at them. But as it is, that's not the case. So in the meantime, in order to replicate those ACFs, I've had to use those cars. I've just did my best to replace details such as stirrups, & use some "forced perspective" on the molded in ladders (shadowing with paint.) You probably seen my latest on WPF:
Now for those Athearn BB kits I have several of-maybe good candidates for some Seico conversions (ends) & maybe a kitbash of one of the rarest of rare Railboxes-a Plate "B" USRM built car (less than 50 built)
Just my 2
Eeyore9900- Nice job on that freight car, it looks like a high-quality car.
Everyone else- Thanks for commenting- keep them coming!
Ted M.
got trains?™
See my photos at: http://tedmarshall.rrpicturearchives.net/
TA462 wrote:Cheap is cheap, its hard to turn a piece of garbage into a work of art. The lowest I would go price wise to detail a cheap car would be a Athearn Blue Box kit. They are great to detail and have good running qualitys once they are built to my standard. Tyco cars on the other hand are not that good and are designed for kids.
Really. Another man's trash, (garbage in your term) is another man's treasure. A lot of your "garbage" is very easily turned into a work of art.
A pleasant afternoon's work. New grabs, KD's and new trucks, all done to a "cheap garbage" Tyco. New paint and all, total cost about $10.00 including $00.25 for the car.
Blankets statements like yours generally means just one thing. A lack of knowledge about the subject. Open up your mind to diamonds in the rough, you may find yourself pleasantly surprised!
Carey
Keep it between the Rails
Alabama Central Homepage
Nara member #128
NMRA &SER Life member
Driline wrote: Autobus Prime wrote: [Skill is built. I saved my second model. It was a small yellow house, pretty crudely done. I save it so I can see how far I've come. I've got a long way yet before I can compare to Rob Corriston, but I'll get there, eventually, with more practice. I think almost anybody could do the same.If you keep taking steps, you can walk across the state, but if you quit after the first few steps don't instantly bring you to the destination, you'll never get there, and worse yet, you'll never know if you could.I really don't think I can stress this enough. It goes for everything: scratchbuilding, kit building, playing musical instruments, painting portraits, making icing roses, running five miles, and so on. Too many people fail to reach their potential because they expect quick perfection and come up short at first. Autobus Prime (aka Optimus Prime)...I am Megatron king of the decepticons and I shall destroy you!!!Actually I agree with you. Its taken me several years of trial and error to build and weather buildings and cars and plenty of practice to make them look believable. Now I'm into scenery and have been experimenting as well. Its a process.....some of us take longer but eventually we get there. Practice Practice Practice.
Autobus Prime wrote: [Skill is built. I saved my second model. It was a small yellow house, pretty crudely done. I save it so I can see how far I've come. I've got a long way yet before I can compare to Rob Corriston, but I'll get there, eventually, with more practice. I think almost anybody could do the same.If you keep taking steps, you can walk across the state, but if you quit after the first few steps don't instantly bring you to the destination, you'll never get there, and worse yet, you'll never know if you could.I really don't think I can stress this enough. It goes for everything: scratchbuilding, kit building, playing musical instruments, painting portraits, making icing roses, running five miles, and so on. Too many people fail to reach their potential because they expect quick perfection and come up short at first.
[Skill is built. I saved my second model. It was a small yellow house, pretty crudely done. I save it so I can see how far I've come. I've got a long way yet before I can compare to Rob Corriston, but I'll get there, eventually, with more practice. I think almost anybody could do the same.
If you keep taking steps, you can walk across the state, but if you quit after the first few steps don't instantly bring you to the destination, you'll never get there, and worse yet, you'll never know if you could.
I really don't think I can stress this enough. It goes for everything: scratchbuilding, kit building, playing musical instruments, painting portraits, making icing roses, running five miles, and so on. Too many people fail to reach their potential because they expect quick perfection and come up short at first.
Autobus Prime (aka Optimus Prime)...I am Megatron king of the decepticons and I shall destroy you!!!
Actually I agree with you. Its taken me several years of trial and error to build and weather buildings and cars and plenty of practice to make them look believable. Now I'm into scenery and have been experimenting as well. Its a process.....some of us take longer but eventually we get there. Practice Practice Practice.
D:
Ah. One shall stand, one shall fall.
Preferably it won't be your favorite locomotive.
Keep up the good work, though. Report on your experiments if you feel we can benefit from your findings. :)