Careful what you wish for and careful HOW you wish for it.
I'm a regular on a Classic Film Forum, and I was surprised to find that after doing a little investigation, that we had some pretty 'big' names also posting--people that are very active in the motion picture business, some of who have been for years. However, like a lot of us, they use pseudonyms.
So we may have some 'big names' on this forum, after all. Joe Fugate CERTAINLY qualifies, IMO, and I've read some other posts that make me think that some others of you out there are enjoying your pseudonyms while offering the rest of us a lot of really GOOD advice.
You're out there, I KNOW you are, heh-heh.
Tom
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
I think we just need to accept the fact that we're considered the whack-jobs of the MRR community.
BCSJ wrote: jfugate wrote: I don't see Allen McClelland, Paul Dolkus, Pelle Soelborg, George Sellios, Lionel Strang, or Eric Boorman posting on any online forums, yahoo or otherwise. (I'm spelling the names from memory and I may have mistyped a few of them, so cut me some slack ... ) There are quite a few "names" that are regulars in MR that don't post anything online anywhere that I'm aware of. As to why they don't, there's probably lots of reasons ... not the least of which is the fact it takes time and they prefer to spend their time either working on the layout or writing for money. There used to be a certain, extremely well known and highly experienced, model railroader who frequently posted on the ldsig email list. I recall him floating a track plan for comments and having various people assure him he was making a huge mistake with a part of the design he knew from a decade or two or previous experience. The people doing the assuring couldn't seem to grasp that he knew (from much experience) exactly what he getting into in this area and the design compromise was satisfactory for him. They were well meaning but eventually heckled this guy enough that he simply left the ldsig email list never to return (that I know) of. Perhaps this suggests why some "big names" don't post much (if at all).FWIWCharlie
jfugate wrote: I don't see Allen McClelland, Paul Dolkus, Pelle Soelborg, George Sellios, Lionel Strang, or Eric Boorman posting on any online forums, yahoo or otherwise. (I'm spelling the names from memory and I may have mistyped a few of them, so cut me some slack ... ) There are quite a few "names" that are regulars in MR that don't post anything online anywhere that I'm aware of. As to why they don't, there's probably lots of reasons ... not the least of which is the fact it takes time and they prefer to spend their time either working on the layout or writing for money.
I don't see Allen McClelland, Paul Dolkus, Pelle Soelborg, George Sellios, Lionel Strang, or Eric Boorman posting on any online forums, yahoo or otherwise. (I'm spelling the names from memory and I may have mistyped a few of them, so cut me some slack ... )
There are quite a few "names" that are regulars in MR that don't post anything online anywhere that I'm aware of. As to why they don't, there's probably lots of reasons ... not the least of which is the fact it takes time and they prefer to spend their time either working on the layout or writing for money.
There used to be a certain, extremely well known and highly experienced, model railroader who frequently posted on the ldsig email list. I recall him floating a track plan for comments and having various people assure him he was making a huge mistake with a part of the design he knew from a decade or two or previous experience. The people doing the assuring couldn't seem to grasp that he knew (from much experience) exactly what he getting into in this area and the design compromise was satisfactory for him. They were well meaning but eventually heckled this guy enough that he simply left the ldsig email list never to return (that I know) of. Perhaps this suggests why some "big names" don't post much (if at all).
FWIW
Charlie
BCSJ wrote: There used to be a certain, extremely well known and highly experienced, model railroader who frequently posted on the ldsig email list. I recall him floating a track plan for comments and having various people assure him he was making a huge mistake with a part of the design he knew from a decade or two or previous experience. The people doing the assuring couldn't seem to grasp that he knew (from much experience) exactly what he getting into in this area and the design compromise was satisfactory for him. They were well meaning but eventually heckled this guy enough that he simply left the ldsig email list never to return (that I know) of. Perhaps this suggests why some "big names" don't post much (if at all).FWIWCharlie
I don't mean to come across as the same old rancid, morning-cold dish cloth all the time, but I feel that this happens a great deal on all forums....the well-meaning, mild-mannered and accomplished offer themselves to help the subject/field, and to share their love of it. Someone whose ego wouldn't fit into two heads, let alone one, has to hector and press and push in an attempt to dignify his claims so that he can somehow keep a lofty impression with the others reading.
Whether it fools anyone or not, it doesn't make the whole thing especially palatable for the well-meaning elder in the field....who, all things considered, wonders if he/she might be more welcome elsewhere.
And often, that is exactly the case.
-Crandell
MAbruce wrote: I think we just need to accept the fact that we're considered the whack-jobs of the MRR community.
Yeah,the black sheep of the hobby..
I can sit down with the best of 'em and discuss prototypical operation, and advance layout designs.
But,they won't allow me to sit in..I guess I haven't paid my "dues" as a big name in the hobby.
Pity the poor black sheeps..You see they don't even get to blow the dang whistle!
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
HEY! I resemble that remark!!
All of the above!
I think one needs to consider the character of the forum. This is a great place for a broad range of information that is well suited to the beginner through intermediate modeller. There is a broad range of interests and topics covered. If you have a narrow or specialized interest then you have to weed though a lot to find things relevant to your interest. This format serves those of us that are constructing layouts very well as it provides a gold mine of information on the many issues we will face.
I am in a transition phase. My layout is essentially completed and I am very focused on the structure building. I have found that there are places on the web that better cater for this narrower interest. It seems to me that a lot of modellers follow a similar transition to more specialized areas.
My suspicion is that this place has too broad an appeal for the so called names. Though I suspect that some of the names are barely on the web anyway. There more specialized interests are better served else where.
Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum
Not meaning to offend, and not pointing any fingers, except maybe at myself...
With all the attitudes, egos, ranting, raving, complaining, fighting, back stabbing, and other unpleasantties I have seen and/or been part of
It surprises me not one little bit that most of the well known people avoid the forums alltogether. Add to the above the fact that they have lives, busy shcedules, an all consuming passion for working on their chosen vocation or hobby as the case may be... and a million other things that take up their time...I can't see why anyone would be surprised???
If I was a big name in MRR the petulant tone of the title of this thread might be enough to persuade me that I had better things to do than post on a forum. But then I have less patience than a lot of people, when it comes to other people.
Dave Vollmer wrote: While I'm on my soapbox...I guess it also depends on what's a "big name." Most people here are thinking of "big names" as people who have been featured a lot in MR. Model Railroader Magazine is not the ultimate authority on who is or isn't a "big name."There are people in the PRR proto modeling circle and people in the N scale community who have never graced the pages of MR, yet whose opinions I'd value more than, say, Tony Koester's. MR is not the only pub out there. And, thanks to the Internet, there are very skilled modelers out there who can share their work without being published on paper.So we need to be careful that we don't only respect those modelers that MR says we should, and dismiss others as not "big names" because they haven't published in MR.
While I'm on my soapbox...
I guess it also depends on what's a "big name." Most people here are thinking of "big names" as people who have been featured a lot in MR. Model Railroader Magazine is not the ultimate authority on who is or isn't a "big name."
There are people in the PRR proto modeling circle and people in the N scale community who have never graced the pages of MR, yet whose opinions I'd value more than, say, Tony Koester's. MR is not the only pub out there. And, thanks to the Internet, there are very skilled modelers out there who can share their work without being published on paper.
So we need to be careful that we don't only respect those modelers that MR says we should, and dismiss others as not "big names" because they haven't published in MR.
You make a good point, as have others. I was published one time in MR, that was April of 1984. But I have never submitted anything to them to be published. I do belong to the Prototype modelers, ldsig, nceusers, ATSF modelers, and I am active most in ATSF and NCE.
My time is limited on occasion, but I spend a lot of time in my office (computer also) working, and I skim certain forums as a break. I spend time on Atlas, and limited time on some others.
You know, the Model Railroader thing in my opinion is over rated. My affiliation with NMRA goes back about 35 years. I try to avoid holding office, but I have done many clinics at meets, I have judged at many of the contests, and I have been active working with regional and national activities at Kansas City or Mid-Con region.
I did my work for my MMR by being "pushed" by Chuck Hitchcock and Doug Taylor and I never regretted it. I learned some new skills (building my own track, and command control, I am electronically challenged), and honed other skills I had as part of the program.
Finally, I lurked on this forum for some time before ever posting, just "meeting" new faces. I find a lot of talent, sources of information, and good guys here, just like I find some I would chose to avoid (like any other forum). And I would close by reminding you that I never said anything when I started posting about being an MMR. It isn't relavent, and I just wanted to join in the dicussions like anyone else.
Nice place here, more should visit.
Bob
We talked for 21 pages about toast. Nuff said.
Nelson
Ex-Southern 385 Being Hoisted
I presume this is in reference to my post about Tony thanking him for his riverbed technique. I in no way am offended if he doesn't reply. I'm just happy if he gets the message.
I think the big whigs in MRR'ing are probably too busy to respond here, and don't want to be heckled with a kajillion (that's a technical term) questions. I'm surprised poor Joe F. doesn't get bombarded.
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
"Rust, whats not to love?"
Yeah, I'm actually Rod Stewart under a different name. I suppose it's time I revealed myself to you.
TrainManTy wrote:Yeah, I'm actually Rod Stewart under a different name. I suppose it's time I revealed myself to you.
Nothing surprises me since one forum regular turned out to be John Ratzenberger.
SpaceMouse wrote: lvanhen wrote: 8500HPGASTURBINE wrote: How do you define "big names" There is 100'S of "BIG NAMES" in here that know more then the ones you idolize. Most of them don't have the time to post every 10 minutes. But when they do there reply is very informative. I can name a few with under 400 posts that know more then some with 2000+ replies. JMO Michael And there are those with over 2000 replies that "know it all"!And you're saying I don't?
lvanhen wrote: 8500HPGASTURBINE wrote: How do you define "big names" There is 100'S of "BIG NAMES" in here that know more then the ones you idolize. Most of them don't have the time to post every 10 minutes. But when they do there reply is very informative. I can name a few with under 400 posts that know more then some with 2000+ replies. JMO Michael And there are those with over 2000 replies that "know it all"!
8500HPGASTURBINE wrote: How do you define "big names" There is 100'S of "BIG NAMES" in here that know more then the ones you idolize. Most of them don't have the time to post every 10 minutes. But when they do there reply is very informative. I can name a few with under 400 posts that know more then some with 2000+ replies. JMO Michael
How do you define "big names" There is 100'S of "BIG NAMES" in here that know more then the ones you idolize. Most of them don't have the time to post every 10 minutes. But when they do there reply is very informative. I can name a few with under 400 posts that know more then some with 2000+ replies. JMO
Michael
And there are those with over 2000 replies that "know it all"!
And you're saying I don't?
No, not you Space Mouse, but there are other(s). By the way, I have a very big name
VAN HENTENRYCK!!
I didn't learn to spell it untill I was in High School!!
R. T. POTEET wrote:The same thing holds true for this creature they call a MMR - Master Model Railroader. I got drawn into a clinic at a convention one time conducted by one of these har MMRs, seduced, I do suppose, by those lofty credentials. Having attended a clinic by this MMR I am extremely unlikely to ever enroll in one of the NMRA's Modeling with the Masters symposiums.
marknewton wrote: R. T. POTEET wrote:The same thing holds true for this creature they call a MMR - Master Model Railroader. I got drawn into a clinic at a convention one time conducted by one of these har MMRs, seduced, I do suppose, by those lofty credentials. Having attended a clinic by this MMR I am extremely unlikely to ever enroll in one of the NMRA's Modeling with the Masters symposiums.I'm 100% in agreement with you about that. From what I have seen of the MMR program it seems to be based on how well the candidate can emulate Allen/Sellios/Furlow, et al. I find the work of the RPMer's much more educational and inspiring.My tuppence worth,Mark.
Since I got my MMR in the 80's, I haven't paid much attention to requirements for the program other than to sit in judgement at times, but your statements were certainly not true when I got mine. I was given sheets with the requirements for each catagory, I did what was necessary for each, I was judged, )in three cases, the judges came to my home to see the completed work (track, scenery, dispatching)), and then I received my certificates. As I said before, the MMR is nice to have, but hasn't really affected my model railroading enjoyment or enhancement any except I did learn to enjoy handlaying track, but my hands no longer enjoy it. As for Allen, Sellios, Furlow, none of them do the kind of modeling I do or enjoy. Never considered any of them as heros for my modeling. I might also say that for me, proto operation is the most important part of my railroading these days.
marknewton wrote: From what I have seen of the MMR program it seems to be based on how well the candidate can emulate Allen/Sellios/Furlow, et al. I find the work of the RPMer's much more educational and inspiring.Mark.
I'm curious as to what you have seen in the NMRA Achivement Program that can lead to the Master Model Railroader Award that leads you to believe that.
There are several possible awards in the Program, Master Builder of Cars, Locomotives, Structures, and Scenery; Chief Dispatcher; Civil and Electrical Engineer; Author; Volunteer; and Association Official. I think I may have missed one or two, can't recall.
For the Master Builder Awards, modelers must demonstrate their ability to detail models in each category, scratchbuild one, and receive at least 87.5 points in an NMRA judged contest for a specific number of models (out of 125 points). Models in the categories must be of several different types - for Cars, you need to enter freight and passenger, etc., they cannot be all of one type. For Scenery you must have built on your own a specific number of square feet of a model railroad that contains itemised elements.
Chief Dispatacher requires one to operate on a model railroad for a minimum of 40 hours, act as a dispatcher for 10, and prepare train schedules and diagrams of the railroad.
The Engineer awards have specific requirements too, such as handlaying track and turnouts, doing specific electrical work, etc.
Author requires a specified number of photos and articles be published in the model press.
Volunteer requires applicant to have served on specific assignments within the hobby.
Association Official requires service at the regional and/or national level of the NMRA.
Please forgive me if these are not complete or all encompassing, I'm doing them all from memory. They should all be spelled out on the NMRA website.
Now to achieve the MMR Award, the modeler must have seven of the above awards, and they must include at least one of the Author, Volunteer, and Official Awards to ensure the applicant's dedication to the hobby.
I see no where is there any reference to emulating "Allen/Sellios/Furlow, et al" as noted. Perhaps in their personal modeling the applicants could model in these guys styles, as they are certainly some of the best modelers we've seen.
I personally have earned five of the Awards, and am only a little away from completing two others but I haven' been motivated recently to work on completing the requirements. One is to scratchbuild a locomotive, and the other is to act as a dispatcher for 10 hours.
So please don't assume that those who have done a whole lot of work in our hobby and have achieved MMR status have requirements to "emulate Allen/Sellios/Furlow, et al" as noted.
Bob Boudreau
CANADA
Visit my model railroad photography website: http://sites.google.com/site/railphotog/
Well said, Bob. And to that I'll note that the requirements for locomotives, rolling stock and structures all call for conformance to submitted prototype plans or examples...freelanced models following Allen, Sellios, or Furlow designs and lacking real world documentation being unlikely to make the grade.
The other program certificates have even less to do with the likes of the three gentleman noted above, being simply based on what you, yourself, have been able to accomplish as a hobbyist.
CNJ831
SteamFreak wrote: TrainManTy wrote:Yeah, I'm actually Rod Stewart under a different name. I suppose it's time I revealed myself to you.Nothing surprises me since one forum regular turned out to be John Ratzenberger.
Hey, I loved that "Made In America" series
I didn't know he was a MRR'er
SteamFreak wrote: We talked for 21 pages about toast. Nuff said.
"I" didn't...
BRAKIE wrote:Joe,A lot of the names are on private yahoo groups catering to their niches.I know Jim Six has a yahoo group that covers detailing cars and locomotives.
He had a clinic on how to superdetail a P2K GP7 in NYC's lightning stripes not long ago. The details he added, well, it was something. I mean, half the time, I wasn't sure if it was the model, or the prototype. Even though I wasn't doing a P2K unit (couldn't find an NYC one at the time), he was more than willing to let me follow along when I started my Athearn project. (Of course later a P2K GP7 came my way, but that's another story.)
I actually met Mr. Six at a PCRRHS convention some years back--he was giving a clinic on weathering freight cars. Also on display, were several models he'd done--mostly NYC diesels and a few cars. What impressed me most, other than his work, was that he was taking his time to explain what he was doing...even to a relative newbie like myself.
emdgp92 wrote:I actually met Mr. Six at a PCRRHS convention some years back--he was giving a clinic on weathering freight cars. Also on display, were several models he'd done--mostly NYC diesels and a few cars. What impressed me most, other than his work, was that he was taking his time to explain what he was doing...even to a relative newbie like myself.
I think this is a key point. If the modeler also loves to teach, then taking the time to explain things over and over to a newbie is no big deal ... in fact it's kinda fun. That's my own motivation -- although there is a certain amount of wisdom in not going online and working on the layout instead!
Those that don't have a teaching motivation can still be motivated by the opportunity to make money through the hobby press, so we all still benefit there too -- even if they are not online.
Joe Fugate Modeling the 1980s SP Siskiyou Line in southern Oregon
I think this is an interesting subject. There are a few "big name" folks who have graced some of the forums including Jim Six (Model Railroading) and yes, our own Joe Fugate (MR). It great when we can meet some of these folks and participate in the hobby and learn from each other. I really appreciate Joe's accessabililty and willingness to jump in here and offer his help, and comments and interact. Thats great!
There are some who treat the whole thing on the level of a hollywood celebrity like thing. In that realm which I was exposed to a little bit in southern California, people like to do what they call "dropping names", which means they like to mention any big name celebrity who they have had some kind of experience with or contact with. I had a model RR friend in another state who is well off financially and travels regularly to the big national train shows every year etc. He began to rub shoulders with some of these so called big names like David Barrow and Tony Koester etc. He has been building a fairly large prototype based layout in his large basement and has managed to get one or two of these guys to come visit him. This has all seems to have gone to his head to the point where he is now of the status that he would only accept visits to his layout from old friends as part of an organized event. That kind of mentality is something I will never understand.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
I have my own take on this subject: I recently solicited the advice of an author of an article and layout in a MRR Mag from 1999. MRR Mag passed my question onto him. I would consider him to be a big name modeler based on the quality and content of his article. He not only answered my questions about the layout plan that was featured in the magazine, but also was instrumental in re-designing a plan that fit into my spare room; in my opinion he went beyond the call of what I asked and I still communicate with him from time to time to share ideas. It took several weeks for him to initially respond to my question and in some cases a few months between additional messages, but he came through for me. He does not post here as far as I know, but he is a suscriber and an advid fan of MRR Magazine because he indicated that he was excited to receive his latest issue. It appeared obvious that he is busy with his job and his craft, which is to complete his dream layout. I just wanted to pass this along because the big name modelers may not post, but I do believe they lurk in some way or another, which is exactly what I do more times than not. I was incredilbly impressed with his help, kindness, and willingness to share, which I believe to be the real spirit of the forums on this site! I just wanted to give you my two cents worth!
John