Have you noticed the big name modelers don't post?

[SteamFreak]

Yeah, I'm actually Rod Stewart under a different name. I suppose it's time I revealed myself to you.

Nothing surprises me since one forum regular turned out to be John Ratzenberger. 

Hey, I loved that "Made In America" series

I didn't know he was a MRR'er

Sorry about that. I was making a joke about Mr. Vollmer's avatar.

 

 

[selector]

This is a good topic...

 

...A true "big name" is someone who has a big heart for the hobby.  

I couldn't agree more.  Well said, Marty.  Well said.

-Crandell

[maandg]

 

OK How the heck did John Allen not make this list???????????

Not a big enough name I guess

You are absolutely correct, vsmith.  As I edited above, I inadvertently hit "post" while still working on my text.  Even George Sellios has always stated that John Allen is his idol and had indelible influence on his modeling. Ditto for Malcolm Furlow.

For me personally, John Allen was before my time.  My first issue of Model Railroader was the September 1978 issue - well after his death.  However, I am very familiar with his work and recognize him as one of the "Hall of Fame" names in the hobby.  It is amazing how the ripple effects of his contributions continue to be felt.

He is the text book definition of a "big name".  And deservedly so!

 

 

[maandg]

What, pray tell, is a 'big name modeler?'

I judge "big names" not by the proliferation of their material but the influence and impact of the material.  Certain modelers have shared ideas that have literally shaped and molded our hobby.  Many of these things we take for granted without giving credit or thought to the originator.  For example, I consider the following people to have had a tremendous influence for the following reasons....

Allen McClelland:  Layout Beyond the Basement, Miniature Transportation System

David Barrow:  Linear Layout Design, Domino Construction

Linn Westcott:  L Girder Benchwork

Tony Koester:  Prototype Freelancing, Stub-ended Staging

Chuck Hitchcock:  Passenger Train Operation

George Sellios:  Detail Craftsmanship

Dave Frary:  Water Soluble Scenery

John Armstrong:  Track Design

The Reid Brothers: Revolutionized N Scale

Malcolm Furlow:  Narrow Gauge Impressionism

Bruce Chubb:  Operations and Electronics

Jack Burgess:  Duplicating the Prototype

Paul Dolkos:  Visual tricks with Track Design

Joe Fugate:  Mushroom Design

John Allen:  Artistry through Craftsmanship

Lorell Joiner:  Milestones in O Scale

John Pryke:  Urban Modeling

Frank Ellison:  Operations

Lou Sassi:  Ground Goop and trees

Dean Freytag:  Steel Mill Modeling

Jim Hediger:  Double Deck Construction

Rand Hood:  Creating Winter Scenes

Pelle Soeborg: Desert Scenery and Scenic Detailing

Eric Brooman:  Contemporary Modeling 

I can't imagine that any model railroader could look at this list and not find at least ONE person who has influenced their thinking or at least provided some inspiration to them.  Sure, several of these notables may have simply popularized pre-existing concepts, but even so, I consider that feat worthy of being called a "big name".  Every one of these icons has shared his thoughts, ideas and work through articles in the hobby press.  If they were simply writing to a dead planet in a vacuum, I would more easily dismiss their efforts.  But in each case, they have managed to touch, educate and inspire members of their audience - - not ALL of their audience to be sure, but a vast majority in some aspect.  This is why some of us will see a name on this list and think, "I never cared for his stuff".  And that's fine.  I have no personal interest in steel mills, O scale, modern diesels, narrow gauge or winter scenes.  But that doesn't minimize my appreciation of someone's work or contributions to the hobby.  Or recognizing them as a "big name".

I guess I would define a "big name" as someone who has impacted the hobby.

Not a certain forum or group alone, but the hobby as a whole - like them or not.  Each of these innovators could have just as easily kept their ideas hidden and to themselves.  Instead, they chose to step out and share them with others.  Any notoriety or adulation that resulted from that is well deserved and worthy of respect in my opinion.

I shudder to think what the state of the art of our hobby would be today without these pioneers. 

Just my

[vsmith]

What, pray tell, is a 'big name modeler?'

I judge "big names" not by the proliferation of their material but the influence and impact of thier material.  Certain modelers have shared ideas that have literally shaped and molded our hobby.  Many of these things we take for granted without giving credit or thought to the originator.  For example, I consider the following people to have had a tremendous influence fro the following reasons....

Allen McClelland -     Layout beyond the basement

                            Miniature Transportation System

                             "Good Enough" Philosophy

David Barrow            Linear layout design

                             Domino construction

Linn Westcott           L Girder benchwork

Tony Koester            Prototype Freelancing

                              Stub Ended Staging

Chuck Hitchcock        Passenger Train Operation

George Sellios            Detailed Craftsmanship

Dave Frary                Water Soluble Scenery

John Armstrong          Dean of Track Planning

The Reid Brothers       Revolutionized N Scale         

Malcolm Furlow          Narrow Gauge impressionism

Bruce Chubb              Operations and Electronics Guru

Jack Burgess              Duplicating the prototype

Paul Dolkos                Visual tricks with track design

Lorell Joiner                Milestones in O Scale

John Pryke                 Urban Modeling

Lou Sassi                   Ground Goop, Trees

Dean Freytag              Steel Mill Modeling

Jim Hediger                 Double Deck Construction

Rand Hood                  Recreating Winter Scenes

Pelle Soeborg               Scenic Detailing

                                 Desert Scenery

Eric Brooman                Contemporary Modeling

Frank Ellsion

I can't imagine that any model railroader could look at this list and not find at least ONE person who has influenced their thinking or at least provided some inspiration to them.  Sure, several of these notables may have simply popularized pre-existing concepts, but even so, I consider that feat worthy of being called a "big name".  Every one of these icons has shared his thoughts, ideas and work through articles in the hobby press.  If they were simply writing to a dead planet in a vacuum, I would more easily dismiss thier efforts.  But in each case, they have managed to touch, educate and inspire members of thier audience - - not ALL of their audience to be sure, but a vast majority in some aspect.  This is why some of us will see a name on this list and think, "I never cared for thier stuff".  And that's fine.  I have no personal interest in steel mills, O scale, modern diesels, narrow gauge or winter scenes.  But that doesn't minimize my appreciation of someone's work or contributions to the hobby.

I guess I would define a "big name" as someone who has not only contributed to a certain forum or group, but the hobby as a whole - like them or not.  Each of these innovators could have just as easily kept their ideas hidden

OK How the heck did John Allen not make this list???????????

Not a big enough name I guess

[maandg]

Oops - Hit post before I was finished.  See correction below.

[Marty Cozad]

This is a good topic, I've learned simple answers from some of the newest modelers.

We tend to over think many things the longer we are in the hobby.

 

Plus some folks are not thought of as "the big names" if they are in other scale.

A "big name" usually means they spend more time and money building and sharing the hobby.

 

The bigger the RR the more time it takes and less time for forums.

 

In summer I spend less time on sites.

During winter if we are not running the rotary ,I'm scratchbuilding new models that probably won't hit the market any time soon.

 

A true "big name" is someone who has a big heart for the hobby.  

[AggroJones]

Brrrrrrrrrr....

Who is considered a big name can vary by who you ask.

[jaretos]

I have my own take on this subject: I recently solicited the advice of an author of an article and layout in a MRR Mag from 1999.  MRR Mag passed my question onto him. I would consider him to be a big name modeler based on the quality and content of his article.  He not only answered my questions about the layout plan that was featured in the magazine, but also was instrumental in re-designing a plan that fit into my spare room; in my opinion he went beyond the call of what I asked and I still communicate with him from time to time to share ideas.  It took several weeks for him to initially respond to my question and in some cases a few months between additional messages, but he came through for me.  He does not post here as far as I know, but he is a suscriber and an advid fan of MRR Magazine because he indicated that he was excited to receive his latest issue.  It appeared obvious that he is busy with his job and his craft, which is to complete his dream layout.  I just wanted to pass this along because the big name modelers may not post, but I do believe they lurk in some way or another, which is exactly what I do more times than not.  I was incredilbly impressed with his help, kindness, and willingness to share, which I believe to be the real spirit of the forums on this site!  I just wanted to give you my two cents worth!

 

John

[riogrande5761]

I think this is an interesting subject.  There are a few "big name" folks who have graced some of the forums including Jim Six (Model Railroading) and yes, our own Joe Fugate (MR).  It great when we can meet some of these folks and participate in the hobby and learn from each other.  I really appreciate Joe's accessabililty and willingness to jump in here and offer his help, and comments and interact.  Thats great!

There are some who treat the whole thing on the level of a hollywood celebrity like thing.  In that realm which I was exposed to a little bit in southern California, people like to do what they call "dropping names", which means they like to mention any big name celebrity who they have had some kind of experience with or contact with.  I had a model RR friend in another state who is well off financially and travels regularly to the big national train shows every year etc.  He began to rub shoulders with some of these so called big names like David Barrow and Tony Koester etc.  He has been building a fairly large prototype based layout in his large basement and has managed to get one or two of these guys to come visit him.  This has all seems to have gone to his head to the point where he is now of the status that he would only accept visits to his layout from old friends as part of an organized event.  That kind of mentality is something I will never understand.

[jfugate]

I actually met Mr. Six at a PCRRHS convention some years back--he was giving a clinic on weathering freight cars. Also on display, were several models he'd done--mostly NYC diesels and a few cars. What impressed me most, other than his work, was that he was taking his time to explain what he was doing...even to a relative newbie like myself.

I think this is a key point. If the modeler also loves to teach, then taking the time to explain things over and over to a newbie is no big deal ... in fact it's kinda fun. That's my own motivation -- although there is a certain amount of wisdom in not going online and working on the layout instead!

Those that don't have a teaching motivation can still be motivated by the opportunity to make money through the hobby press, so we all still benefit there too -- even if they are not online. 

[emdgp92]

Joe,A lot of the names are on private yahoo groups catering to their niches.I know Jim Six has a yahoo group that covers detailing cars and locomotives.

He had a clinic on how to superdetail a P2K GP7 in NYC's lightning stripes not long ago. The details he added, well, it was something. I mean, half the time, I wasn't sure if it was the model, or the prototype. Even though I wasn't doing a P2K unit (couldn't find an NYC one at the time), he was more than willing to let me follow along when I started my Athearn project. (Of course later a P2K GP7 came my way, but that's another story.)

I actually met Mr. Six at a PCRRHS convention some years back--he was giving a clinic on weathering freight cars. Also on display, were several models he'd done--mostly NYC diesels and a few cars. What impressed me most, other than his work, was that he was taking his time to explain what he was doing...even to a relative newbie like myself.

[loathar]

We talked for 21 pages about toast. Nuff said. 

"I" didn't...

[DigitalGriffin]

Yeah, I'm actually Rod Stewart under a different name. I suppose it's time I revealed myself to you.

Nothing surprises me since one forum regular turned out to be John Ratzenberger. 

Hey, I loved that "Made In America" series

I didn't know he was a MRR'er

[johncolley]

I believe that they do....but only when they have something important to add to a threadthat hasn't been brought up. They are smart enough to know if something has already been said they don't need to add their 2c worth just to see their name in print. In other words, it is not just to repeat what the last 3 people said, but when they can contribute something worthwhile, they do. jc5729 John Colley, Port Townsend, WA

[CNJ831]

Well said, Bob. And to that I'll note that the requirements for locomotives, rolling stock and structures all call for conformance to submitted prototype plans or examples...freelanced models following Allen, Sellios, or Furlow designs and lacking real world documentation being unlikely to make the grade.

The other program certificates have even less to do with the likes of the three gentleman noted above, being simply based on what you, yourself, have been able to accomplish as a hobbyist.

CNJ831

[Railphotog]

From what I have seen of the MMR program it seems to be based on how well the candidate can emulate Allen/Sellios/Furlow, et al. I find the work of the RPMer's much more educational and inspiring.
Mark.

 

I'm curious as to what you have seen  in the NMRA Achivement Program that can lead to the Master Model Railroader Award that leads you to believe that.

There are several possible awards in the Program, Master Builder of Cars, Locomotives, Structures, and Scenery; Chief Dispatcher; Civil and Electrical Engineer; Author; Volunteer; and Association Official.  I think I may have missed one or two, can't recall.

For the Master Builder Awards, modelers must demonstrate their ability to detail models in each category, scratchbuild one, and receive at least 87.5 points in an NMRA judged contest for a specific number of models (out of 125 points).  Models in the categories must be of several different types - for Cars, you need to enter freight and passenger, etc., they cannot be all of one type.   For Scenery you must have built on your own a specific number of square feet of a model railroad that contains itemised elements.

Chief Dispatacher requires one to operate on a model railroad for a minimum of 40 hours, act as a dispatcher for 10, and prepare train schedules and diagrams of the railroad.

The Engineer awards have specific requirements too, such as handlaying track and turnouts, doing specific electrical work, etc.

Author requires a specified number of photos and articles be published in the model press.

Volunteer requires applicant to have served on specific assignments within the hobby.

Association Official requires service at the regional and/or national level of the NMRA.

Please forgive me if these are not complete or all encompassing, I'm doing them all from memory.  They should all be spelled out on the NMRA website.

Now to achieve the MMR Award, the modeler must have seven of the above awards, and they must include at least one of the Author, Volunteer, and Official Awards to ensure the applicant's dedication to the hobby.

I see no where is there any reference to emulating "Allen/Sellios/Furlow, et al" as noted.  Perhaps in their personal modeling the applicants could model in these guys styles, as they are certainly some of the best modelers we've seen. 

I personally have earned five of the Awards, and am only a little away from completing two others but I haven' been motivated recently to work on completing the requirements. One is to scratchbuild a locomotive, and the other is to act as a dispatcher for 10 hours. 

So please don't assume that those who have done a whole lot of work in our hobby and have achieved MMR status have requirements to "emulate Allen/Sellios/Furlow, et al" as noted.

 

 

[pastorbob]

The same thing holds true for this creature they call a MMR - Master Model Railroader. I got drawn into a clinic at a convention one time conducted by one of these har MMRs, seduced, I do suppose, by those lofty credentials. Having attended a clinic by this MMR I am extremely unlikely to ever enroll in one of the NMRA's Modeling with the Masters symposiums.

I'm 100% in agreement with you about that. From what I have seen of the MMR program it seems to be based on how well the candidate can emulate Allen/Sellios/Furlow, et al. I find the work of the RPMer's much more educational and inspiring.

My tuppence worth,

Mark.

Since I got my MMR in the 80's, I haven't paid much attention to requirements for the program other than to sit in judgement at times, but your statements were certainly not true when I got mine.  I was given sheets with the requirements for each catagory, I did what was necessary for each, I was judged, )in three cases, the judges came to my home to see the completed work (track, scenery, dispatching)), and then I received my certificates.  As I said before, the MMR is nice to have, but hasn't really affected my model railroading enjoyment or enhancement any except I did learn to enjoy handlaying track, but my hands no longer enjoy it.  As for Allen, Sellios, Furlow, none of them do the kind of modeling I do or enjoy.  Never considered any of them as heros for my modeling.  I might also say that for me, proto operation is the most important part of my railroading these days.

Bob

[marknewton]

The same thing holds true for this creature they call a MMR - Master Model Railroader. I got drawn into a clinic at a convention one time conducted by one of these har MMRs, seduced, I do suppose, by those lofty credentials. Having attended a clinic by this MMR I am extremely unlikely to ever enroll in one of the NMRA's Modeling with the Masters symposiums.

I'm 100% in agreement with you about that. From what I have seen of the MMR program it seems to be based on how well the candidate can emulate Allen/Sellios/Furlow, et al. I find the work of the RPMer's much more educational and inspiring.

My tuppence worth,

Mark.

[lvanhen]

How do you define "big names" There is 100'S of "BIG NAMES" in here that know more then the ones you idolize. Most of them don't have the time to post every 10 minutes. But when they do there reply is very informative. I can name a few with under 400 posts that know more then some with 2000+ replies. JMO

 

Michael

  And there are those with over 2000 replies that "know it all"!

And you're saying I don't?

No, not you Space Mouse, but there are other(s).  By the way, I have a very big name

VAN HENTENRYCK!!

I didn't learn to spell it untill I was in High School!!

[SteamFreak]

Yeah, I'm actually Rod Stewart under a different name. I suppose it's time I revealed myself to you.

Nothing surprises me since one forum regular turned out to be John Ratzenberger. 

[Anonymous]

Yeah, I'm actually Rod Stewart under a different name. I suppose it's time I revealed myself to you.

 

 

[Robby P.]

I am with the other people that they use a different name.  I am sure they look and read all of the post, and probably respond.  Thats why it makes you think if Rod Stewart evers post on here. 

[DigitalGriffin]

I presume this is in reference to my post about Tony thanking him for his riverbed technique.  I in no way am offended if he doesn't reply.  I'm just happy if he gets the message.

I think the big whigs in MRR'ing are probably too busy to respond here, and don't want to be heckled with a kajillion (that's a technical term) questions.  I'm surprised poor Joe F. doesn't get bombarded.

 

[SteamFreak]

We talked for 21 pages about toast. Nuff said. 

[pastorbob]

While I'm on my soapbox...

I guess it also depends on what's a "big name."  Most people here are thinking of "big names" as people who have been featured a lot in MR.  Model Railroader Magazine is not the ultimate authority on who is or isn't a "big name."

There are people in the PRR proto modeling circle and people in the N scale community who have never graced the pages of MR, yet whose opinions I'd value more than, say, Tony Koester's.  MR is not the only pub out there.  And, thanks to the Internet, there are very skilled modelers out there who can share their work without being published on paper.

So we need to be careful that we don't only respect those modelers that MR says we should, and dismiss others as not "big names" because they haven't published in MR.

You make a good point, as have others.  I was published one time in MR, that was April of 1984.  But I have never submitted anything to them to be published.  I do belong to the Prototype modelers, ldsig, nceusers, ATSF modelers, and I am active most in ATSF and NCE.

My time is limited on occasion, but I spend a lot of time in my office (computer also) working, and I skim certain forums as a break.  I spend time on Atlas, and limited time on some others.

You know, the Model Railroader thing in my opinion is over rated.  My affiliation with NMRA goes back about 35 years.  I try to avoid holding office, but I have done many clinics at meets, I have judged at many of the contests, and I have been active working with regional and national activities at Kansas City or Mid-Con region. 

I did my work for my MMR by being "pushed" by Chuck Hitchcock and Doug Taylor and I never regretted it.  I learned some new skills (building my own track, and command control, I am electronically challenged), and honed other skills I had as part of the program.

Finally, I lurked on this forum for some time before ever posting, just "meeting" new faces.  I find a lot of talent, sources of information, and good guys here, just like I find some I would chose to avoid (like any other forum).  And I would close by reminding you that I never said anything when I started posting about being an MMR.  It isn't relavent, and I just wanted to join in the dicussions like anyone else.

Nice place here, more should visit.

Bob

[BlueHillsCPR]

Not meaning to offend, and not pointing any fingers, except maybe at myself...

With all the attitudes, egos, ranting, raving, complaining, fighting, back stabbing, and other unpleasantties I have seen and/or been part of

It surprises me not one little bit that most of the well known people avoid the forums alltogether.  Add to the above the fact that they have lives, busy shcedules, an all consuming passion for working on their chosen vocation or hobby as the case may be... and a million other things that take up their time...I can't see why anyone would be surprised???

If I was a big name in MRR the petulant tone of the title of this thread might be enough to persuade me that I had better things to do than post on a forum.  But then I have less patience than a lot of people, when it comes to other people.

[simon1966]

All of the above!

I think one needs to consider the character of the forum.  This is a great place for a broad range of information that is well suited to the beginner through intermediate modeller.  There is a broad range of interests and topics covered.  If you have a narrow or specialized interest then you have to weed though a lot to find things relevant to your interest.  This format serves those of us that are constructing layouts very well as it provides a gold mine of information on the many issues we will face.

I am in a transition phase.  My layout is essentially completed and I am very focused on the structure building.  I have found that there are places on the web that better cater for this narrower interest.  It seems to me that a lot of modellers follow a similar transition to more specialized areas.

My suspicion is that this place has too broad an appeal for the so called names.  Though I suspect that some of the names are barely on the web anyway.  There more specialized interests are better served else where.

[loathar]

I think we just need to accept the fact that we're considered the whack-jobs of the MRR community. 

HEY! I resemble that remark!!