Hello-
Recently, we were able to obtain a beautiful, "pre-made" model railroad that is complete with Lenz DCC and Oak Tree Systems digital controlers.
One of the things that I noticed about the layout is that all of the crossings have crossbucks at them, and there are no actual signals (flashing lights, gates, etc)
I am interiested in purchacing some of the new Walthers crossing signals, in both the new and older styles. One of the features of them is that they can hook up to the Walthers crossing signal controler, so you can have them flash and even have a automatic circuit detection.
Unfortunatly, this controler will not work for DCC users.
I want to install these signals onto the layout, and I also want to use the controler for them. But, I want to install some sort of a switch on the side of the layout that will be able to turn them on and off in place of the circuit detection.
Is there any way how?? How do the DCC users on here work with these things? Stationary decoders??
Thanks!
Phil
C'mon guys - & gals - with all the electronics whizzes here, someone has had to figure out how to use these with DCC!! I've had mine for a year, and have not been able to use them!! Maybe Walthers will come out with a DCC operator module -
PLEASE!!!!
lvanhen wrote:C'mon guys - & gals - with all the electronics whizzes here, someone has had to figure out how to use these with DCC!! I've had mine for a year, and have not been able to use them!! Maybe Walthers will come out with a DCC operator module -PLEASE!!!!
I am not familiar with the unit but ...
Why Can't they be used with DCC? I would guess that the detection is independent of type of track power. Power for the circuitry itself can come from a standalone DC supply. Voila done.
Worst case you can make DC from DCC with a bridge rectifier, some filter capacitors and either resistors, an inductor or transformer to isolate. Works for AC track (euro or tinplate) too.
Karl
[EDIT] I just checked the Walther's web site. It says "requires an 18VAC source".
Piece of cake. Use an 120volt to 16volt doorbell transformer if you don't have an old power pack.
The mind is like a parachute. It works better when it's open. www.stremy.net
The Walthers unit gets it's power from the track - DC usually gets no higher than 12v, DCC is 14 to 18v short wave AC which would burn it out (according to others - I don't have a clue!!) I'm wondering if I could power it from a spare DC pack. The train direction from the DC controls the on/off timing, but I'd be happy for the signal to go on & off in the same time period before & after the train goes over thee crossing!
lvanhen wrote:The Walthers unit gets it's power from the track - DC usually gets no higher than 12v, DCC is 14 to 18v short wave AC which would burn it out (according to others - I don't have a clue!!) I'm wondering if I could power it from a spare DC pack. The train direction from the DC controls the on/off timing, but I'd be happy for the signal to go on & off in the same time period before & after the train goes over thee crossing!
Lou, which unit do you have? If it does in fact use DC track power then a spare "power pack" will work fine.
This controller:
Walthers Part # 933-2307, p. 312 Walthers 2008 HO Scale Reference HO scale, $34.98, currently in stock at Walthers
Needs a seperate 18volt AC supply. Says so on the web site.
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/933-2307
It should work fine on somewhat lower voltage. It doesn't make sense to power a controller from a DC track since the voltage applied will vary with throttle setting. (Unless the unit uses a very low DC voltage and is self regulated.)
Is there a way you could scan your operators manual and either post it or email it. Maybe we can figure it out.
Larak, heres 1 side of the instructions - I have to post & edit to get the other side posted!
OK, got the schematic posted also. Walthers says for DC only, DCC may damage it. For $27.95, i raely dont want to mess with it!
Any help would be greatly appreciated!!
OK Lou,
I must admit that at first look this seemed a bit bizarre. So time to put EE degree and top 1/2% IQ to work ....
It DOES appear that the unit is powered by the AC terminals. Now WHY would they also connect to the track?
The one thing that comes to mind is timing. If a train is moving faster, the sensors should be further from the crossing to let the signals flash before the train gets there but not to long before or a slow train will trigger the signals too soon. Obviously it's hard to move the sensors every time you adjust the throttle.
I think that the track terminals monitor the voltage (and therefore train speed) and adjust how soon after the approach sensor is tripped that the lights/gates activate.
If that is the case, you can hook the unit to a spare power pack's AC and DC terminals as shown and manually adjust the activation delay with the throttle. You won't get perfect timing but it will work. NOTE: Absolutely NO electrical interconnection with the DCC system.
Disclaimer: There is a postulate to chaos theory called "Murphy's Law". If something unforeseen (including, but not limited to, a random black hole appearing in your controller) occurs, I cannot be held responsible to the results.
Still, If it were mine I would try it. If you don't want to take the chance, you can always donate the unit to me LOL!
We have two of these units installed on two mains on our clubs layout. They do use four photo cells for each signal and are powered from an extra power supply under the layout. They do not use track power. There are two cells on each side of the crossing. They work great and you can place them as far or as close to the crossing as you like. We have not had any problems with them at all. They will however, come on if you turn the overhead lights off so they won't work in a night time situation.
I "think" the Walthers controller unit uses the DC track power inputs to sense direction of travel in order to achieve the proper crossing signal behavior (i.e. turn on when sensor A is covered and turn off after sensor C is uncovered while ignoring sensors B and D; vice versa when traveling in the other direction). With DCC you can't determine direction of travel from the polarity of track power since it is ALWAYS changing!
I'm curious to know how those of you who are running on DCC and are using the Walthers controller (albeit NOT connecting the DCC track power to the controller!) are getting proper signal behavior (assuming my above theory is true). If you're using a spare DC power pack to provide the DC track power inputs to the controller unit PLEASE tell me that you aren't manually flipping the reversing switch on that power pack to match the direction of your DCC train!
FWIW, Circuitron's grade crossing controller also uses track polarity to sense direction of travel and thus doesn't work with DCC.
Chuck Stancil
Logic Rail Technologies
But it will work with DCC if you use an alternative power source to control the relays and the lights. I use a DALLEE train detection circuit and a Circuitron occilating flasher unit. All i have to do is cut a gap in the rail on one end of the track and then cut another one a few feet further down the rail. (this is the section of track where the road crosses the tracks and you want the crossbucks to protect the automobile traffic within this section of track.
Next solder a wire from the powered side of the rail. (the rail on the outside of the gaps) thru the DALLEE train detection unit and then solder the other end of the wire to the rail on the inside of the gaps. What will happen is that the DALLEE TD unit will sense the voltage drop when the train crosses the gap at either end of the rail and will allow the contacts of the relay built into the dallee unit to close.
Use an old power pack to power the crossbuck signals. The power supply will have one leg go directly to the crossbucks and a leg to the Circuitron osccilation circuit(the common) and the other wire will go to the DALLEE relay (NO normally open) and then from the relay will continue to the occilating circuit and then to the other leg of the crossbucks. (There is a wiring diagram that comes with the oscillating circuit so don't dispair.) One other thing is that the train may be real long so a couple of 1000 ohm resistors might need to go across a couple of wheelsets on the cars cars and the caboose in the train to keep the circuit alive until the entire train clears the roadway. I have a picture of my circuit here: www.webshots.com/user/bayouman1 go to "trains 2" and the circuit is on page 3
Thanks for all of the information guys. Now, there IS a way to make these things to work on DCC.
I will use this information for a few of my crossings....but....
The question I still have is how to make these lights work off of a switch?
I don't nescessarly want a circuit detection on every crossing since we are going to have operating sessions, and it will make it that more interiesting to control the lights (prototypical or not). Second, I may want to have a huge train go through the crossing gates. As mentioned in an earlier post, you could put resistors on the wheels (etc, etc) to prevent this.... And, I want to have a switch on one particular crossing, since it covers 8 tracks, and I don't feel that interiested in having every single track have a detection circuit (call me lazy, OK??).
And electronic experts know how to make these run off of a switch, or to make the switch act as a control circuit??
Thanks again!
So, I would need to buy...
x2 Walthers grade crossing siginalsflashing circuit (where do you buy one of these??)SPDT switchold power pack
and that's all I need to start?
Sorry to dig up a really old thread, but how would you link up two controllers for double track??
Modelling HO Scale with a focus on the West and Midwest USA
Im digging also =]. But for double track you need to buy another set of optical sensors (Circuitron makes them (product ID 800-9206)) Just duplicate the setup you already have with the optical sensors in the track into the parallel track. Then run the corresponding wires from the optical sensors to the same sensor connections as the ones next to them. I know this isnt the best explanation. If you give me your email I will send you a diagram I made. I can't add media through this forum.
A simple solution to night time use of the detector is to install street lampposts directly over the sensors to simulate daytime. Worked perfectly for me!