Just bought the fantastic HOn3 Blackstone K-27! Wonderful loco, outstanding really!, But... I placed her on the track... the sound came on... (my loco nr: is 459) but the loco didnt move! So I read the manual, that said that she was progammed to the roadnr. that the loco had. In my case 459. Since I am still using my Roco-mouse2, that cant read four didgits, i tried to reset the loco, (CV30 into 2, or CV8 into 8) but the same thing again... sound, but no movement... So please help me guys, I live in Sweden, and orderd the loco from USA, so its i bit tricky and time consuming to send her all the way back. So, do You have any quick idea of what and how I should do to get this lovley little Mudhen to move??? (Ofcourse... reading the manual... but its HUGE... so therefore I ask You for a qick help.)
Best Regards
Per
Sweden
Hello, and sorry to hear you are having a problem with a nice new locomotive.
Not all decoders are reset by CV8. The QSI decoders, for example, need three separate CV's changed. Which is your decoder?
You may have to set the engine on a special programming track with a booster. If your system doesn't put enough power into the tracks in programming mode, the decoder may not recognize the commands.
Per,
For a Soundtraxx decoder, it looks like it's both CV30 = 2 and CV8 = 8. Here's a handy link on Tonys' Train Exchange:
How to Rescue a Faulty Decoder
Let's us know if that works for you...
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Hi again Friends...
No... unfortunatley, the loco still acts the same way, I did reset the loco, both CV30 into 2, and CV8 into 8. That works fine, it take some seconds before the sound comes on, (and the loco "jumps" a few milimeters on the track) and then the lights starts to blink, 16 times, as it says in the manual. But then... sorry to say, the same thing. No response at the throttle or any sounds (Whistle, bell... etc) when presing the buttons (in my case 1-4, ROCO mouse2) So, my dear friends, do You have any last idea before I start to cry... (not really, but almost...)
Best regards
I'd contact Blackstone via e-mail and tell them exactly what you've told us. Also mention to them that you are using the Roco DCC system. Keep us posted what you find out.
perstahle wrote: Hi again Friends...No... unfortunatley, the loco still acts the same way, I did reset the loco, both CV30 into 2, and CV8 into 8. That works fine, it take some seconds before the sound comes on, (and the loco "jumps" a few milimeters on the track) and then the lights starts to blink, 16 times, as it says in the manual. But then... sorry to say, the same thing. No response at the throttle or any sounds (Whistle, bell... etc) when presing the buttons (in my case 1-4, ROCO mouse2) So, my dear friends, do You have any last idea before I start to cry... (not really, but almost...)Best regards Per
I agree with Tom. You have internal circuitry problems, either with the Rocco or the engine, itself. Since the reset takes place safely, by all blinking indications, and then the engine shorts and quits upon the commencement of movement, there is something amiss inside the engine....I am sorry to say. But, you know what? In the end it will all be okay and you can enjoy it when you get a rpelacement. Call them and ask them if they would consider shipping you a replacement now and that you will return the defective one immediately. They may say okay.
Hang on guys, this sounds like it could be a well-known problem withn these locos -- and thankfully easy to fix.
Per, is the headlight falshing at all? Does it flash 12 times? If so, here's the likely problem and its solution.
Some of the motors were overlubed when built. This causes the motor to not want to run and is indicated by the 12 flash code. The solution is to carefully disconnect the linkage between loco and tender. Turn the loco upside down resting where it won't hurt the detail and you'll see the pins in the drawbar that link the decoder to the motor, etc in the loco.
The two outside pins on either side are the ones that supply power to the motor from the decoder. Using a 12 volt source, for instance an ordinary power pack turned up to maximum voltage, touch one lead to each of the outer pins. The loco should start running and you may see a puff of smoke. This is one case where "letting the smoke out" is a good thing. The motor will run fast enough to clear the excess lube from the motor.
After carefully reassembling the drawbar linkage, test it on your track. It should run for you now.
Be aware that the process may need to be repeated a couple of times. Sometimes if the loco sets for some time between uses, the lube will migrate back to where it will cause trouble, but repeating the fix should solve the issue.
In a very few cases, there was apparently too much lube for this fix to hold. In that case, you'll want to return it the Blackstone. If you have any question about this, call Blackstone during business hours on Monday and they can walk you through this process. They are well aware of the issue and have been great about customer service. They stand behind their products. Odds are you should be able to solve the problem with this fix.
BTW, a good list to be on if you're in HOn3 is the HOn3 list on Yahho groups. You'll have access to good advice and all the latest narrowgauge news through it. And it's a friendly crowd.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Thanks for looking in and offering another possibility, Mike. I'll try to remember that if I see another problem with this locomotive.
-Crandell
mlehman wrote: Hang on guys, this sounds like it could be a well-known problem withn these locos -- and thankfully easy to fix.Per, is the headlight falshing at all? Does it flash 12 times? If so, here's the likely problem and its solution.Some of the motors were overlubed when built. This causes the motor to not want to run and is indicated by the 12 flash code. The solution is to carefully disconnect the linkage between loco and tender. Turn the loco upside down resting where it won't hurt the detail and you'll see the pins in the drawbar that link the decoder to the motor, etc in the loco. The two outside pins on either side are the ones that supply power to the motor from the decoder. Using a 12 volt source, for instance an ordinary power pack turned up to maximum voltage, touch one lead to each of the outer pins. The loco should start running and you may see a puff of smoke. This is one case where "letting the smoke out" is a good thing. The motor will run fast enough to clear the excess lube from the motor.After carefully reassembling the drawbar linkage, test it on your track. It should run for you now.Be aware that the process may need to be repeated a couple of times. Sometimes if the loco sets for some time between uses, the lube will migrate back to where it will cause trouble, but repeating the fix should solve the issue.In a very few cases, there was apparently too much lube for this fix to hold. In that case, you'll want to return it the Blackstone. If you have any question about this, call Blackstone during business hours on Monday and they can walk you through this process. They are well aware of the issue and have been great about customer service. They stand behind their products. Odds are you should be able to solve the problem with this fix.BTW, a good list to be on if you're in HOn3 is the HOn3 list on Yahho groups. You'll have access to good advice and all the latest narrowgauge news through it. And it's a friendly crowd.
Mike is correct here. I know many narrow gauge modelers who have experienced this problem and the fix Mike describes is what Jeff at Blackstone recommends. I too can vouch for the H0n3 group on Yahoo This topic has come up many times there.
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
is this engine dc compatible, then just juice the tracks with DC.
But if the decoder is smart enough to detect the motor cannot move, thgen the above fix would help.
I hope there is a standard DCC reset that works over any DCC. Setting the DCC to the engine number is good but not good for lower end DCC.
They should set it to like a standard channel 3 or so. Then the user can reprogram wherever.
dinwitty,
The Blackstone K-27 is DC compatible. That's the way I run mine and you still get a lot of control over the sound effects.
However, you really need to get the loco off the tracks to clear the oil. It does have all-wheel pickup (except for lead and pony trucks) so it'll probably run without the tender. I think the issue is that there's so much resistance from the lube that leaving it on the tracks just doesn't let the motor rev enough to break it loose.
I'm not recommending it, but a certain well-known California narrowgauger actually jumped his K off a car battery after it proved more than usually recalcitrant to this process. That sounds pretty dicey to me, but the extra amps available did the trick.
mlehman wrote: I'm not recommending it, but a certain well-known California narrowgauger actually jumped his K off a car battery after it proved more than usually recalcitrant to this process. That sounds pretty dicey to me, but the extra amps available did the trick.
Mike,
I'm guessing that the indiivdual in question (he is a friend of mine) and Blackstone would cringe at the idea that you posted this here. This recommendation was made under special circumstances to an expert modeler with many years experience and was never intended to be publicized as a fix for this problem....But it does make a good story......Don't try this at home kids....
The decoder must be bypassed in order for the recommended fix to work, which is why Blackstone recommends feeding the pins on the loco after disconnecting the tender (with the decoder in it). Putting the loco on the track without the tender does nothing because the loco is wired for dcc and the pick-ups in the loco feed the decoder only. There is no direct connection to the motor (DCC basics 101). The fix works most of the time, without extreme measures.
This is a great time to be in narrow gauge. This is a new day for H0n3 with the release of the the first ready to run, High quality, non brass loco (I don't count the MDC as in the same category). A sound equipped, beautifully detailed loco for far less than the recent brass imports. Unfortunate that Blackstone has this problem, but once the oil thing is dealt with, these are great little locos. Add to that the selection of RTR cars from Blackstone and Microtrains and we should be seeing some more activity in H0n3 or as CNJ would say "One of the last strong holds of Classic Model Railroading gone to the dogs"
trainnut1250 wrote: mlehman wrote: I'm not recommending it, but a certain well-known California narrowgauger actually jumped his K off a car battery after it proved more than usually recalcitrant to this process. That sounds pretty dicey to me, but the extra amps available did the trick. Mike, I'm guessing that the indiivdual in question (he is a friend of mine) and Blackstone would cringe at the idea that you posted this here. This recommendation was made under special circumstances to an expert modeler with many years experience and was never intended to be publicized as a fix for this problem....But it does make a good story......Don't try this at home kids....The decoder must be bypassed in order for the recommended fix to work, which is why Blackstone recommends feeding the pins on the loco after disconnecting the tender (with the decoder in it). Putting the loco on the track without the tender does nothing because the loco is wired for dcc and the pick-ups in the loco feed the decoder only. There is no direct connection to the motor (DCC basics 101). The fix works most of the time, without extreme measures.This is a great time to be in narrow gauge. This is a new day for H0n3 with the release of the the first ready to run, High quality, non brass loco (I don't count the MDC as in the same category). A sound equipped, beautifully detailed loco for far less than the recent brass imports. Unfortunate that Blackstone has this problem, but once the oil thing is dealt with, these are great little locos. Add to that the selection of RTR cars from Blackstone and Microtrains and we should be seeing some more activity in H0n3 or as CNJ would say "One of the last strong holds of Classic Model Railroading gone to the dogs" Guy
The Blackstone engine was a total surprise to me. Good for them. I will have an HOn3 feeder line to my layout system, so that engine may be in my future, or if they break out something else.
yes, doing a big power amp thru the decoder is a nono, so "jumpstarting" the loco is right.
If the pin connectors are right you can feed little wires into them to make a jump, as long as you know which wire goes to what. Or teeny alligator clips.
If your able to dissassemble the loco you will see the motor and probable bare wires to place leads onto.
Guy,
That's why I wrote "I'm not recommending it..." and "That sound pretty dicey to me..." Perhaps I should have written "Don't try this at home, kiddies" just to make that perfectly clear, which I think I was. Or name names. And I didn't note anything about that being a Blackstone recommendation...
Use the powerpack folks, not the car battery!
Is that clear?
Thank you so much for this reminder. I had to be away about 4 years with my #453 in a display case. Today I got to run it for the first time, and it ran VERY poorly. I got the 12 flashes, went on-line, saw this thread, and did the 12V fix. Let out the smoke, and it runs fine once again.
Appreciate your information.
I'll update this this. Eventually, one of my K-27s really wouldn't clear the lube and the other was dicey. I contacted Blackstone and arranged to have the motors swapped out. Totally solved the problem.
For many of these locos, the 12 volt power application to the motor via the pins as described earlier in the thread solves the problem.
I have one of the latest run K-27s and it's fine as are the second run locos. This affected only the first run K-27s and no other locos.
devils The only way round it is to re-program the number to one within the range of your DCC system the details are on page 13 on this manual. http://www.soundtraxx.com/documents/manuals/tsunamisteam_users_guide.pdf I'm afraid if you can't program a value in CV1 as the address then you'll have to look at finding someone who has a higher spec DCC controller that can, or send it back. Paul
Perhaps I'm missing something here. Blackstone locomotives come with the engine number as the default. Period. Resetting the customized Tsunami used by Blackstone will not change the default address. And if the address has been changed, resetting the decoder will put it back to the engine number.
The link Paul provided didn't work for me, but contains how to reprogram the address to a 2 digit number. The OP will need a blast mode to reprogram everything setting on the track, as he will be unable to address the Blackstone's default number to change the address to a 2 digit number.
The over-oiling issue, while real, doesn't appear to be the problem for the OP. It usually manifests itself with the 12 light flashes on a DCC system.
Then again, I could be wrong.
Fred W
Fred,
AFAIK, I think you're correct. The Tsunami's in the Blackstone locos that are factory decorated as DRGW are set to default to the loco road number for the long address. I think you can use short address 3, too, but haven't checked on that. I don't have any undecorated K-27s, but do have two unlettered C-19s and they came set to 3 as default.
The OP never got back to us as to whether he tried the DC volt fix or not. I suspect he misstated that the headlight was flashing 16 times. I've never come across a 16 flash code in any discussion on the K-27 or in the documentation, although it's possible I've missed that. So I assumed that was simply a miscount, as the other symptoms fit the over-oiling problem of the first run K-27s.
Mike gave the fix that works about 60% of the time. My second K-27 was from the first run of K-27s (older) There was a lubrication issue in some of this first run. Running the loco connecting DC to the two outside loco plug pins was what Jeff at Blackstone recommended. The loco ran great after a 5 hour run in in this mode. Once back together, it ran for about 1 hour and then acted up again. (12 blinks). Again, the forward and reverse running with loco and DC attached for 10 hours, this time, fixed the issue. Back together it ran great for about 2 hours and then locked up and it never ran again even with DC. Jeff at Blackstone took the engine back and put a new motor in it under warranty and it has run flawlessly ever since.
I now own 8 Blackstone K-27s and C-19s and that one K-27 was the only problem I ever had and it was resolved under warranty within 2 weeks. Blackstone is good about such things.
Note: All decorated Blackstones from the factory are pre-set to their cab number! (this assumes no one has messed with the factory original.) All undecorated models come preset to the normal #3 Loco I.D. code. I own both a C-19 and K-27 undecorated and they are #3 right out of box.
Now is a great time to buy older Blackstone stock. At train shows, I am seeing $340-$360 for the K-27's and C-19s with sound. A significant reduction off list. Blackstone just issued new, limited K-27 and C-19 runs with a significant increase in the list prices and rumor has it a new loco, maybe a K-36 is coming! (Wish it was a K-28)
Richard
If I can't fix it, I can fix it so it can't be fixed
How many amp system is the Roco Mouse2? Most Tsunamis have issues programming the road number on systems that are 1.5 amps. I have seen this many times with the diesel decoders. The only fix is to program on a more powerful system. I had to reset a decoder that a friend tried to program on his Digitrax zepher and got it stuck where it would not respond to even CV8. I had to to a CV reset on it to get it to program to the new number.
Now that I'm in DCC, I use a NCE Power Cab on my programming track. It's got plenty of oomph to deal with Tsunamis without the Soundtraxx PTB (Programming Track Booster). I ended up selling my PTB, as it wasn't needed with the Power Cab.
I bought the Digitrax PTB as well for my Digitrax Zephyr "Extra" only to find out I did not need it. The "Extra", ( latest model"), has "blast mode" as a setting so programming the Tsunami is a snap. I later found out that blast mode is not even needed on the Extra, though I keep it turned on anyway.