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Okay N-siders, what's the deal? (Plan Added)

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Okay N-siders, what's the deal? (Plan Added)
Posted by SpaceMouse on Sunday, December 16, 2007 6:57 AM

I just moved my office into my home and I plan to work from home. As part of this move, I am building shelves in the corner. Now I have the stuff sitting around to build a N-scale layout, but I can't build one that takes attention like a switching layout.

So that means I have to be able to turn the trains. But I can come out too far into the room or in no longer looks like a shelf and it defeats the purpose--and risks veto from my higher authority. So figure I'm running a modern NS mixed freight and a modern Amtrak, what is the minimum radius turn I can negotiate--not that necessarily looks good, because I can disguise that.

Chip

Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.

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Posted by Dave Vollmer on Sunday, December 16, 2007 7:04 AM

Chip,

Folks may toss 9.75" or 11" at you, but if you've got passenger cars and 6-axle diesels, you praobably need to go 13".  That's not just for looks...  My old layout had 11" radius curves and my 6-axle E8 and E7 locos would come close to binding in those curves.  Forget it completely if you consider someday to run steam.  I'd say for peace of mind, not an inch under 13".

Others may disagree.  But since switching to N scale in 2002 I've hit it pretty hard, trying to fit large steam and 20-car trains on a hollow-core door; I feel confident I've tested the limits of N scale.

Good luck, Chip, and welcome to N scale! 

Modeling the Rio Grande Southern First District circa 1938-1946 in HOn3.

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Posted by dad1218 on Sunday, December 16, 2007 8:15 AM

   How much room do you have? You will probably need to run 15" radius curves for the passenger equipment. My passenger coaches make it around 12 3/8 radius curves on my layout and it ain't pretty. But those coaches are 79' 8" and no skirting around the trucks. My diner car don't make it, it is 83' 2" long with some skirting above the trucks. The skirting keeps the trucks from turning far enough to make the turn.

                         Gary

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Posted by SpaceMouse on Sunday, December 16, 2007 9:00 AM
 dad1218 wrote:

   How much room do you have? You will probably need to run 15" radius curves for the passenger equipment.

That's the problem. I have 53" from my desk to the wall in one direction and 60" on the other. If I go with 15" radius turns, then I am looking at coming out from the wall 32" minimum leaving 21" clearance desk to layout. I have to get my chair out from behind the desk to be more intimate with my clients when they come over.

Having a 12-18 inch shelf is one thing, 30" takes over the room. This is a professional office not a den. It would have been cool to set a train running on one shelf though.  

Chip

Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.

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Posted by nolatron on Sunday, December 16, 2007 9:07 AM

I'm using 20" minimum on my mainline on my shelf layout, though it's a point-2-point with staging.

What about creating a loop around the office?  Have a diagram of the layout of the office? 

Shaun

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Posted by SpaceMouse on Sunday, December 16, 2007 9:51 AM
 nolatron wrote:

I'm using 20" minimum on my mainline on my shelf layout, though it's a point-2-point with staging.

What about creating a loop around the office?  Have a diagram of the layout of the office? 

Just working on it.

Chip

Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.

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Posted by SpaceMouse on Sunday, December 16, 2007 10:12 AM

Here's what the shelves would look like with the blobs in place.

Chip

Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.

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Posted by Vail and Southwestern RR on Sunday, December 16, 2007 10:22 AM
I think you can make 13" work, with easements.  It looks like that would fit in you space.  Or, perhaps run four axle stuff and call it a branch line, so you coud still be modern.

Jeff But it's a dry heat!

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Posted by nolatron on Sunday, December 16, 2007 10:23 AM

ah, multi-door (large one too) room. I'm assuming the desk won't fit where the proposed shelf would go right?

Shaun

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Posted by SpaceMouse on Sunday, December 16, 2007 10:30 AM
No the desk would fit. It's just that the power, network and phones have been run to the other side. My wife would not let me tear into existing walls.

Chip

Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.

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Posted by concretelackey on Sunday, December 16, 2007 10:35 AM
Place the desk between the large door and the fireplace, place your layout where the desk is shown in your drawing and run your cables ON the layout disguised as oilpipe lines or similar.Smile,Wink, & Grin [swg]
Ken aka "CL" "TIS QUITE EASY TO SCREW CONCRETE UP BUT TIS DARN NEAR IMPOSSIBLE TO UNSCREW IT"
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Posted by stebbycentral on Sunday, December 16, 2007 10:43 AM

Actually it looks like you could get a really neat N-scale layout on the top of that desk...Big Smile [:D]

BTW, did you get my contest submission?

I have figured out what is wrong with my brain!  On the left side nothing works right, and on the right side there is nothing left!

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Posted by SpaceMouse on Sunday, December 16, 2007 10:46 AM

Okay, here's what 24" blobs would look like. If I ran Geeps on a branchline, would 11" radii work?

Chip

Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.

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Posted by concretelackey on Sunday, December 16, 2007 10:50 AM

 SpaceMouse wrote:
No the desk would fit. It's just that the power, network and phones have been run to the other side. My wife would not let me tear into existing walls.

Any chance of fishing new cables in where the proposed shelf is shown?

Ken aka "CL" "TIS QUITE EASY TO SCREW CONCRETE UP BUT TIS DARN NEAR IMPOSSIBLE TO UNSCREW IT"
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Posted by dad1218 on Sunday, December 16, 2007 10:50 AM

  Have you considered Z or TT. Don't know what kind of selection there is any either one.

                       Gary

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Posted by SpaceMouse on Sunday, December 16, 2007 10:54 AM
 concretelackey wrote:

 SpaceMouse wrote:
No the desk would fit. It's just that the power, network and phones have been run to the other side. My wife would not let me tear into existing walls.

Any chance of fishing new cables in where the proposed shelf is shown?

No, it's an exterior wall with the pitch coming straight down on top of it. It was bad enough pulling the cable to the center wall. It took four of us. Besides, having just spent the money to pull three cables to where it is, my wife would shoot me if I decided to move it.

Chip

Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.

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Posted by SpaceMouse on Sunday, December 16, 2007 10:55 AM
The thing is I have the track and rolling stock for N scale. I could do Z but I have to squint to see N scale.

Chip

Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.

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Posted by concretelackey on Sunday, December 16, 2007 11:02 AM
What is the mantle elevation in relation to your target layout height? If close perhaps run an additional narrow shelf above the mantle and over behind the desk for that "out in the boondocks" customer. Won't give a continuous running operation but would extend the travel time.
Ken aka "CL" "TIS QUITE EASY TO SCREW CONCRETE UP BUT TIS DARN NEAR IMPOSSIBLE TO UNSCREW IT"
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Posted by Vail and Southwestern RR on Sunday, December 16, 2007 11:09 AM
 SpaceMouse wrote:

Okay, here's what 24" blobs would look like. If I ran Geeps on a branchline, would 11" radii work?

That would work.  As long as you stay away from autoracks and containers, I think it would be no problem at all. 

 

Jeff But it's a dry heat!

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Posted by SBCA on Sunday, December 16, 2007 11:09 AM
 SpaceMouse wrote:

Having a 12-18 inch shelf is one thing, 30" takes over the room. This is a professional office not a den.

Which is exactly why I'd reconsider a layout in there.  Not so much for not looking like you're a kid playing with trains (which is what some of your clients WILL think for sure), but also because it could be a major distraction.  (I know for me, this forum is a bad enough temptation throughout the workday, I couldn't possibly imagine dealing with a layout in the office too!)

Just some food for thought... 

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Posted by mls1621 on Sunday, December 16, 2007 11:13 AM

Chip,

Will you you have clients coming to your office?  If not, why not rotate the desk 90 degrees clockwise and put it facing the wall?  This will put your back to the layout, but with some creative placement of mirror tiles on the walls, you can see it as you work.

Just a thought. 

Mike St Louis N Scale UP in the 60's Turbines are so cool
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Posted by SpaceMouse on Sunday, December 16, 2007 11:23 AM
 mls1621 wrote:

Chip,

Will you you have clients coming to your office?  If not, why not rotate the desk 90 degrees clockwise and put it facing the wall?  This will put your back to the layout, but with some creative placement of mirror tiles on the walls, you can see it as you work.

Just a thought. 

Most of the time my clients will be via phone or Skype, but I have a Thursday discount day for locals. Then they would meet in my office.  I have to roll my chair out in front of my desk then.

As for the distraction part, it might be, but the idea is to have a peaceful relaxing railfan to watch when I'm writing.

 

Chip

Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.

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Posted by SpaceMouse on Sunday, December 16, 2007 11:28 AM
 stebbycentral wrote:

Actually it looks like you could get a really neat N-scale layout on the top of that desk...Big Smile [:D]

BTW, did you get my contest submission?

Yes, sorry. I've ben slow to post lately.

Chip

Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.

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Posted by SpaceMouse on Sunday, December 16, 2007 11:43 AM
Around here, SD45-2s do all the grunt work. Would they do okay on an 11" radius?

Chip

Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.

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Posted by mls1621 on Sunday, December 16, 2007 11:50 AM

Chip,

When I first started getting serious about a layout, I thought of using Kato Unitrack.  I came to my senses and went with flex track, but the Unitrack I bought let me test rolling stock and locomotives on fixed radius curves and experiment.

I'd suggest you get a few pieces in several radii and see what works.  The other members and myself can make all kinds of recommendations, but you're the one who has to live with it.

If you're going to mask the turn arounds, you could use snap track there and flex track in the visible areas, so investing in a few pieces for testing wouldn't be a waist.

Mike St Louis N Scale UP in the 60's Turbines are so cool
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Posted by SpaceMouse on Sunday, December 16, 2007 12:21 PM
The trouble is I would have to buy the engines. To me that's a pretty expensive experiment.

Chip

Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.

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Posted by pcarrell on Sunday, December 16, 2007 12:48 PM

Chip,

You have some great suggestions so far.  Let me throw a different possibility out there. 

What about building a layout that folds up against the wall, into sort of a boxed framework or something, for when the customers come over.  That way you get your trains, but you fold up the layout when you need the space.  On the bottom side you could have charts, maps, or pictures so that it looks nice when you fold it up.

You'd have to keep the scenery low (and well secured) and you don't get to run trains when company is over, but you are free to build a railroad less confined for your own enjoyment.  Just put the rolling stock on shelves above the fireplace (display style - out of harms, and heats, way) when not in use.

Just a thought.......

As to going the other way, 13" may be about it unless you choose to model a modern local, then maybe you could wiggle down to 11", but that might be pushing it.  Rolling stock selection might be tricky then.

Philip
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Posted by wm3798 on Sunday, December 16, 2007 1:06 PM

I don't know what line of work you're in, nor how much face to face you have with clients in your office...  I would like to have a small layout in my home office, just to make background noise...  It's a fairly small room, though, and one wall is a bank of large windows with a long radiator below them... so there's no real room to do it.

I'd suggest keeping it very simple.  A 24 to 30" door slab as a base, a simple donut track plan, but build it up with 2" foam so you can do some dramatic scenery for your train to run through (and to disguise those impossibly tight 11" radius turns!).

Since you're not an experienced N scaler (It's a little different than those ponderous HO trains you're used to!) you don't want to get into a bunch of trackwork that will probably give you fits.  Also, a visiting client will more likely be impressed with a well-executed scene of a bridge crossing a river than by a junction or a switching area.  Think of the layout as a 3-D landscape that sits on a shelf instead of hangs on the wall in a frame.

Don't forget to keep us posted with lots of pictures!

Lee 

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Posted by Nagrom1 on Sunday, December 16, 2007 1:07 PM

 I think that is a possibility, but it also depends on the type of business is being run out of the office. Some people would find a train too cool to be ture, especially those with kids. Parents would love you for keeping their kids quiet while you guys worked stuff out.

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Posted by SpaceMouse on Sunday, December 16, 2007 2:12 PM
It's a holistic health practice. I would need the client's full attention so no trains running during the session.

Chip

Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.

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