Who bought who, and who just folded?

[andrechapelon]

that good and while your paying whatever i will be buying the same items and having surf and turf and having change left over.

Think so? The 2% rebate on purchases for COSTCO Executive Club members actually covers the cost of the membership for us. Then there's the money we save over the standard retail store.

Incidentally, Sam's Club (membership required) is quite a bit cheaper than Wal-Mart even though both are part of the same company. The price differential far and away more than makes up for the membership cost.

Enjoy your surf and turf.

Andre

 

[CNJ831]

Of particular concern is that, outside of Branchline (and the electronics outfits), it's difficult to point to any new major players from the hobby's past ten years, who were not already a part of the industry previously in some fashion.

CNJ831 

Broadway Limited Imports, founded 2001.

Maybe Intermountain Railway Co.?  They seem fairly new.

In fact, Dave, BLI is simply a spin-off from a pre-existing brass loco manufacturer, not a company new to model railroading.

Intermountain's first appearance, I believe, goes back at least 10 years.

CNJ831 

 

[Anonymous]

that good and while your paying whatever i will be buying the same items and having surf and turf and having change left over.

http://rrtrains.com/      this copany gives discounts but if you pay the 50.00 yearly membership fee you get a 30% or more dicount on all items. DISCLAIMER  am not in any way having anything to do with rr trains other then being a satisfied customer.  athearn makes a great deal of great looking engines  but to me the handrails are to fragile.had over fifty athearn rtr and genesis units at 1 time but dumped them do to the fact that most of them had broken handrais from me simply brushing them with my fingers.

Im offended by the fact that there is a fee to get a discount. I get discounts without ever a fee.

You're not a member of COSTCO or Sam's Club, are you?

Andre

Nope.

I dont see any special pricing benefits to joining clubs.

Once a long time ago I was in a bar and ordered a spirit. They handed me a questionaire saying it is a private club and I needed to provide all my information. And would be charged a annual fee.

I walked out leaving the questionare on the bar blank. Every Tavern Ive known about never ever shook the customer down for that. It kind of defined my outlook towards such requirements.

I dont mind sharing information in certain ways like Car Insurance but to try and get preferental pricing? NAh. They can build all the Coscos they want to, but wont find me inside.

I specifically stated that in the Hobby Shop for train stuff, I get a small discount as everyone else without having need to sign up for anything. Everything else is fair game in retail stores. They may or may not get it. Example Best Buy. Sometimes they have the computer part at a good price against online vendors.

It is my understanding that you are NOT required to pay a fee to get service or goods. Because of this I do business away from clubs, private clubs or other similar ventures.

[andrechapelon]

I just went to the Horizon Hobbies website. No deals there. Looks like everything is full list price.

That is another sign of an industry in consolidation....with less competition there is no reason to cut prices.

The more I look, the less I like what I am seeing in this hobby.

If one looks into the situation in detail, the degree of consolidation and the shrinking number of those recognized as major participants in the market place has become quite dramatic recently, although this is certainly not a trend limited to just the past few years. Rather, it has been going on for quite some time. Going back decades, Walthers absorbed many of the earlier companies who produced HO rolling stock, and so did Like Like, Bowser, et al. (as noted previously by others).

One might guess that perhaps a decade from now only Walthers, Horizon (will they really continue in model railroading?), Bachmann, probably Atlas and perhaps Bowser, will be the only major players left, having bought up all the remaining worthwhile companies or seen them withdrawn. Outside of these, the only independents will probably be some of the smaller, more-or-less, cottage industries producing craftsman kits. Of particular concern is that, outside of Branchline (and the electronics outfits), it's difficult to point to any new major players from the hobby's past ten years, who were not already a part of the industry previously in some fashion.

CNJ831 

There he goes again with the negative waves (to paraphase Donald Sutherland in "Kelly's Heroes") http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0065938/ .

Little lesson in history. Here's a list of defunct US car makers: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_defunct_United_States_automobile_manufacturers There are no new builders of automobiles in the US. US plants of foreign manufacturers don't count.

Dead airplane manufacturers (from memory): Curtiss-Wright, Convair, Douglas, North American, Martin, AviaBellanca, Ercoupe, Aeronca, Taylorcraft, Ryan Aeronautical (Ryan build the Spirit of St. Louis). There is only 1 manufacturer of large commercial aircraft in the US and that is Boeing. At one time, Douglas, Lockheed, and Convair build commercial jets. There are no new commercial airplane builders in the US.

Dead locomotive companies: ALCO (and all its 7 component companies, note: ALCO also made automobiles), Baldwin, Lima, Willamette, Westinghouse, Ingalls Shipbuilding, Amoskeag, Climax, Heisler, Whitcomb,Vulcan, Hinkley, Tredegar Iron Works, Davenport, Plymouth .

So that must mean the automobile, aircraft and railroad industries are dying.

Andre - old enough to remember Crosley, Nash, Henry J, Packard, Hudson, Studebaker, AMC (remember the Gremlin and the Pacer?) and the DeLorean.

Shall we now go through and list all the defunct daily newspapers, magazines, deparment stores (anyone remember White Front or Montgomery Ward?), airlines, railroads, etc?

[Anonymous]

http://rrtrains.com/      this copany gives discounts but if you pay the 50.00 yearly membership fee you get a 30% or more dicount on all items. DISCLAIMER  am not in any way having anything to do with rr trains other then being a satisfied customer.  athearn makes a great deal of great looking engines  but to me the handrails are to fragile.had over fifty athearn rtr and genesis units at 1 time but dumped them do to the fact that most of them had broken handrais from me simply brushing them with my fingers.

Im offended by the fact that there is a fee to get a discount. I get discounts without ever a fee.

You're not a member of COSTCO or Sam's Club, are you?

Andre

Nope.

I dont see any special pricing benefits to joining clubs.

Once a long time ago I was in a bar and ordered a spirit. They handed me a questionaire saying it is a private club and I needed to provide all my information. And would be charged a annual fee.

I walked out leaving the questionare on the bar blank. Every Tavern Ive known about never ever shook the customer down for that. It kind of defined my outlook towards such requirements.

I dont mind sharing information in certain ways like Car Insurance but to try and get preferental pricing? NAh. They can build all the Coscos they want to, but wont find me inside.

I specifically stated that in the Hobby Shop for train stuff, I get a small discount as everyone else without having need to sign up for anything. Everything else is fair game in retail stores. They may or may not get it. Example Best Buy. Sometimes they have the computer part at a good price against online vendors.

It is my understanding that you are NOT required to pay a fee to get service or goods. Because of this I do business away from clubs, private clubs or other similar ventures.

[andrechapelon]

http://rrtrains.com/      this copany gives discounts but if you pay the 50.00 yearly membership fee you get a 30% or more dicount on all items. DISCLAIMER  am not in any way having anything to do with rr trains other then being a satisfied customer.  athearn makes a great deal of great looking engines  but to me the handrails are to fragile.had over fifty athearn rtr and genesis units at 1 time but dumped them do to the fact that most of them had broken handrais from me simply brushing them with my fingers.

Im offended by the fact that there is a fee to get a discount. I get discounts without ever a fee.

You're not a member of COSTCO or Sam's Club, are you?

Andre

[Dave Vollmer]

Of particular concern is that, outside of Branchline (and the electronics outfits), it's difficult to point to any new major players from the hobby's past ten years, who were not already a part of the industry previously in some fashion.

CNJ831 

Broadway Limited Imports, founded 2001.

Maybe Intermountain Railway Co.?  They seem fairly new.

 

[Anonymous]

As I sit here thumbing through my 08 Walther catalog, searching ebay and reading the forums here on trains.com. I came to the conclusion, I need to learn some vendor history.

Is Athern still making anything? Or did they get bought up by someone? I believe Roundhouse has been long gone, and by the look of Atherns Box, they aquired Roundhouse, or allways owned them, or the same company owned both...

Anyways, could you guys give me a breif run down on whos who?

 

Ken, thanks for starting an excellent discussion on an interesting subject.

TMT

 

It would also help me figure out whats a good price on ebay, versus the walther catalog. I want to compare apples to apple, not oranges.

Thanks as allways,

Ken

[chutton01]

Thinking back a bit about the 'lot' of modern-era model mfrs which seem to come out in the late '80s/early '90s (Railpower has been mentioned as being purchased by Athearn/Horizon), of which there were several (but of course I can think of only McKean, Front Range, and Eel River [ who's 60ft boxcar dies are being re-issued by someone else nowadays] ) - what are the stories behind them?

And as regards MDC/Athearn, I haven't looked lately but can it be assumed that if Roundhouse < WWII & Athearn later, that Athearn got the modern-era MDC kits such as the 60' Flat cars, Bulkhead Flats, Generic Frameless Tank car & the assorted modern boxcars?

[joseph2]

Clover House dry transfers hasn't "folded" but the company is for sale. Just received catalog #12,the owner plans to retire and 12 will be their last catalog.  Joe

[Anonymous]

show me a dealer who on a daily basis can match the price of rr trains.

http://rrtrains.com/      this copany gives discounts but if you pay the 50.00 yearly membership fee you get a 30% or more dicount on all items. DISCLAIMER  am not in any way having anything to do with rr trains other then being a satisfied customer.  athearn makes a great deal of great looking engines  but to me the handrails are to fragile.had over fifty athearn rtr and genesis units at 1 time but dumped them do to the fact that most of them had broken handrais from me simply brushing them with my fingers.

Im offended by the fact that there is a fee to get a discount. I get discounts without ever a fee.

 

Absolutely and some times at rock bottom discount prices.

Why pay $50.00 a year for a discount when there's other discount shops on line??

[Anonymous]

Just for Falls Valley, the Athearn MDC breakfasts are no myth. I sat at several of them when working for an HO manufacturer. In fact, when MDC made the switch from diecast to plastic, they sold Athearn bodies on MDC underframes  until they got their own line back up in plastic. It is always dangerous to think something is a myth unless you have personal knowledge.

 

Even today the model manufacturers are still friends..There is usually a big whoop de do banquet at the hobby trade show that is/was held once a year in Chicago..

Heh.

Maybe they can fight over pricing over lunch and agree by dinner =)

I used the word Myth because it is a tidbit that I wasnt sure of sooo.. I am careful that way. In another pursuit related to history Ive been shown things I thought I knew facts were legends or myths. =)

Cheers.

[BRAKIE]

Just for Falls Valley, the Athearn MDC breakfasts are no myth. I sat at several of them when working for an HO manufacturer. In fact, when MDC made the switch from diecast to plastic, they sold Athearn bodies on MDC underframes  until they got their own line back up in plastic. It is always dangerous to think something is a myth unless you have personal knowledge.

 

Even today the model manufacturers are still friends..There is usually a big whoop de do banquet at the hobby trade show that is/was held once a year in Chicago..

[BRAKIE]

http://rrtrains.com/      this copany gives discounts but if you pay the 50.00 yearly membership fee you get a 30% or more dicount on all items. DISCLAIMER  am not in any way having anything to do with rr trains other then being a satisfied customer.  athearn makes a great deal of great looking engines  but to me the handrails are to fragile.had over fifty athearn rtr and genesis units at 1 time but dumped them do to the fact that most of them had broken handrais from me simply brushing them with my fingers.

Im offended by the fact that there is a fee to get a discount. I get discounts without ever a fee.

 

Absolutely and some times at rock bottom discount prices.

Why pay $50.00 a year for a discount when there's other discount shops on line??

[andrechapelon]

LOL...A very long discussion and NOT ONE DOLLAR AND CENTS EXAMPLE OF COMPETITIVE PRICING.

Why don't you give us an example of this competitiveness that you speak of?

I am looking to buy a Lionel Polar Express Disappearing Hobo Car for the Polar Express O gauge set.

Show us using links to sellers where this competitiveness is.

I and my wallet will be waiting.

Thanks

TMT

So basically you want someone else to do your homework for you, right?

Is this good enough for you? http://www.etrainshop.com/tek9.asp?pg=products&specific=jmqqrrepenq

http://www.mrtoys.com/lionel-christmas-rolling-stock/Lionel-Polar-Express-Disappearing-Hobo-Car-6-35130.htm

http://www.whistle-stop.com/2007/10/polar-express-disappearing-hobo-car.html

http://www.mrtoys.com/lionel-christmas-rolling-stock/Lionel-Polar-Express-Disappearing-Hobo-Car-6-35130.htm

I realize it's only anecdotal evidence. Sorry 'bout that. It's all I had time for.

Andre

[jsoderq]

Just for Falls Valley, the Athearn MDC breakfasts are no myth. I sat at several of them when working for an HO manufacturer. In fact, when MDC made the switch from diecast to plastic, they sold Athearn bodies on MDC underframes  until they got their own line back up in plastic. It is always dangerous to think something is a myth unless you have personal knowledge.

[Butlerhawk]

Is the correct name Horizon Hobbies or Horizon Hobby - You can find a Horizon Hobby in Champaign IL on the web.

[Anonymous]

http://rrtrains.com/      this copany gives discounts but if you pay the 50.00 yearly membership fee you get a 30% or more dicount on all items. DISCLAIMER  am not in any way having anything to do with rr trains other then being a satisfied customer.  athearn makes a great deal of great looking engines  but to me the handrails are to fragile.had over fifty athearn rtr and genesis units at 1 time but dumped them do to the fact that most of them had broken handrais from me simply brushing them with my fingers.

Im offended by the fact that there is a fee to get a discount. I get discounts without ever a fee.

[Anonymous]

http://rrtrains.com/      this copany gives discounts but if you pay the 50.00 yearly membership fee you get a 30% or more dicount on all items. DISCLAIMER  am not in any way having anything to do with rr trains other then being a satisfied customer.  athearn makes a great deal of great looking engines  but to me the handrails are to fragile.had over fifty athearn rtr and genesis units at 1 time but dumped them do to the fact that most of them had broken handrais from me simply brushing them with my fingers.

[Milepost 266.2]

MSRP may be a obselete breed here and is such a dinosaur as not to know it's pending demise. For example, I found a BLI locomotive that was rare during my hunt at a Ohio Store for MSRP at 360 dollars plus shipping... way too much. I ended up buying it direct from BLI outlet for about 225 total. I bet the Ohio engine is STILL on the shelf today.

Considering he has more than $225 in it, I would imagine he does. 

[mobilman44]

Fred W.,

  What an excellent recap!

I certainly agree with everything, especially about the continuance of the Stewart quality.

Regarding Ulrich & Silver Streak, I believe they were owned by Walthers and Silver Streak is history.  Ulrich MAY still be alive, but I believe they are primarily truck (highway type) producers.  

Ulrich & SS made some excellent craftsman kits, especially for their time in the '50s - '70s.  There are still some available on Ebay, and I highly recommend them.

Thanks,

Mobilman44

[wjstix]

It is my understanding that Horizon bought Athearn lock stock and barrel. That also includes Roundhouse. Because Horizion competes with Walthers for YOUR train money the Walthers no longer carry Athearn.

Yes Horizon bought Athearn, but since Horizon is a distributer / wholesaler too it decided to only offer Athearn products thru Horizon. At least going by what Walthers said publicly, they would have continued to carry Athearn but Horizon withdrew it from the Walthers catalogue.

 

Life Like Heritage and Proto (One and same?) was bought by Walthers.

Proto 2000 and Proto 1000 were lines created by Life-Like, to separate their newer scale stuff from their traditional toy-train line. Proto was never a separate company...kinda like Athearn Genesis is a line of products within the Athearn family.

Riverossi, AHM and IHC will always be one and the same, the difference is the flanges for me. Pizza Cutter or non-pizza cutter.

This has been brought up several times in other posts, but Rivarossi (at least the passenger car line) isn't the same as the current IHC line, although AHM and Rivarossi were the same or made by the same manufacturer overseas or whatever. The current IHC line is not as well detailed as the Rivarossi line is/was - actually I'd like to see whoever owns Rivarossi this week (Hornby?) re-do all the old Rivarossi passenger cars.

[IRONROOSTER]

... I've noticed over the years that ANY company when they sell their items direct, nearly always sell them at MSRP.  That goes for Walthers (unless they are having a sale) and most other companies.  So companies selling items themselves as a rule ask MSRP and its never a good idea to buy direct because of that.

True, but you should check their sites for sales.  When/if they have them, the prices can be very good - I've seen 50% off.  Of course it's usually discontinued items that didn't sell well and/or they are trying to reduce inventory - but I've gotten some good deals.

Enjoy

Paul 

[betamax]

No, I don't agree. I've noticed over the years that ANY company when they sell their items direct, nearly always sell them at MSRP. That goes for Walthers (unless they are having a sale) and most other companies. So companies selling items themselves as a rule ask MSRP and its never a good idea to buy direct because of that.

That is because many of these companies sell the bulk of their inventory to dealers. They sell at list because they don't want to undercut their main customer, the dealers.

Dealers get very upset when they are undercut by their suppliers. It costs them sales, and basically their supplier is taking food off their table by doing that. So they don't order from that supplier (because they don't need as much because the supplier is reducing their sales by competing with them.)

It's just good business. Undermining your customer base is a fast track to success...

[Anonymous]

I just went to the Horizon Hobbies website. No deals there. Looks like everything is full list price.

That is another sign of an industry in consolidation....with less competition there is no reason to cut prices.

The more I look, the less I like what I am seeing in this hobby.

You're kidding, right? You look at the website of one distributor who doesn't focus on selling direct to the public and use that as evidence that there is no price competition? If you looked instead at the web sites of the dozens and dozens of on-line and brick-and-mortar shops, you'd see brisk competition and street prices well below list price.

Since I've been in marketing for many years, I can say with complete confidence that consolidation does not necessarily indicate a market that is shrinking. Consolidation can happen to any market (in growth or decline) if there are benefits in productivity, efficiency, or market access. The worldwide market for automobiles continues to grow, yet those manufacturers have been consolidating almost since the first decade of the market's existence. Likewise home appliances (an amazing number of different name plates are used by a few manufacturers in the US, for example). Oil companies continue to consolidate ... does that mean that cars, refrigerators and gasoline are all on their way out?

One measure of the vitality of any market is the diversity of products it produces. By that measure, the model railroading market has never been better. But to see that diversity, one has to look beyond HO steam-era equipment and scratchbuilding. Just look at the growth in N scale, large scale, and highly specialized, prototype-specific locos and rolling stock, especially in HO. A mass-produced GP40X? RS-32/36? There are a couple of dozen highly specialized plastic or hybrid steamers based on different prototypes available at any one time, many with sound. This kind of diversity was unheard of when I entered the hobby in the 1970s after its last purported brush with extinction (at the hands of slot cars -- remember those?).

With the diversity of offerings has come the specialization of manufacturers. Freed from the need for (relatively) large size by web-based marketing and the availability of CAD and CAM (Computer-Aided-Design and -Manufacturing) for building models, smaller manufacturers can now operate efficiently and can be more responsive to market segments too small for the big guys to care about. And speaking of the big guys, quite often today they have actually diversified their production to mulitple smaller manufacturers overseas ... there may actually be more individual sites turning out model engines today than ever, albeit perhaps with fewer brand names.

Since this thread has been co-opted by the "Hobby is Dying" crowd, I'll mention the same thing I posted recently in my blog, that one's view of the health of model railroading is probably determined mostly by your personality and perspective, not by any market realities. The hobby is now so diverse and far-flung, with so many specialized suppliers able to reach out directly via the Internet, that it's hard to get a handle on it. As I mentioned in the blog, the "World's Greatest Hobby" group estimated the US market alone to have 500,000 participants and $500 Million in annual sales. Here's the press release. Sure WGH has a bias, but so also may the Prophets of Hobby Doom.

Bottom line, things have changed. If your primary enjoyment and goal in the hobby is to build a relatively few highly-detailed models, you may not view those changes as positive. If your primary enjoyment and goal in the hobby is to get a complete layout up and running, you probably view the hobby very positively right now. In the early days, Tinplaters with loops and loops of track running on mostly unscenicked tables were viewed as the epitome of the hobby. Later, HO scratchbuilders were viewed near the top of the model railroading heap. Now, more complete layouts in a variety of scales draw most of the attention of the commercial model press, much to the frustration of some.

(Look out, forum heresy coming.) It doesn't really matter to each of us personally if the hobby is shrinking or growing overall -- because a large percentage of what the market produces is not going to be of interest to each of us as individuals (wrong scale, wrong era, wrong prototype, etc., etc.). But the effect of diversification and computer-aided product design and marketing means that almost every one of us has a wider variety of models and other products from which to choose than ever in the hobby's history, no question. (Except maybe those modeling 1910 or earlier-- sorry, Dave H.)

Thus the effect of the current state of the hobby is to make it more interesting to a wider variety of people than ever before (Thomas to DCC/sound to HO prototype fidelity to Large Scale et al). The scratchbuild-everything-run-only-HO-steam segment may be declining, but that's not the whole hobby by any means. Those of us interested in operation, in prototype fidelity, or in getting the basic elements of a running layout in place quickly have it great right now -- better than ever.

And it may seem materialistic to say so, but the longevity of a market is determined by revenues, not craftsmanship. Whether there will still be a lot of HO scratchbuilders around in 40 years is hard to say. But signs are that money will still be spent on model railroading. And in any case, is there anything that could matter less to an individual hobbyist today than the state of the model railroading market in 2050 -- or in 1950?

Given that I think the whole question of whether the hobby is growing or shrinking is immaterial to each of us today and that it's largely a matter of personal perspective, I'm not going to spend any more time participating in the flurry of assertions and counter-assertions that may ensue ... but go ahead, knock yourselves out!

Byron
Model RR Blog

 

LOL...A very long discussion and NOT ONE DOLLAR AND CENTS EXAMPLE OF COMPETITIVE PRICING.

Why don't you give us an example of this competitiveness that you speak of?

I am looking to buy a Lionel Polar Express Disappearing Hobo Car for the Polar Express O gauge set.

Show us using links to sellers where this competitiveness is.

I and my wallet will be waiting.

Thanks

TMT

 

 

[Anonymous]

I just went to the Horizon Hobbies website. No deals there. Looks like everything is full list price.

That may be the case, same with the walthers catalog too.

Both sources are useful for digging up specific part numbers to provide to one or the other LHS with the order so they might not have to waste too much time digging up part numbers.

It is my understanding that Horizon bought Athearn lock stock and barrel. That also includes Roundhouse. Because Horizion competes with Walthers for YOUR train money the Walthers no longer carry Athearn.

Now to mix the pot a little bit, It is my understanding that Blue Box is no longer USA made, everything comes or will come out of China at some point in the future under the old Athearn Blue Box Kits. You can learn if a Blue Box is USA made or China Made on the box label itself. Ive done both and cannot tell the difference however all gets inspected and I keep LOTS of spare parts on hand.

Life Like Heritage and Proto (One and same?) was bought by Walthers. I think also the pricing has finally come down a little bit because they were stubborn with the 400 dollar steam engines with DCC and Sound that cannot pull very well upgrade. Little by little they are getting better. I have one of the new 2-10-2's that is a joy to drive along with the older QSI Y3.

Broadway Limited is no longer QSI. They may carry SOME products with QSI but I think they would rather ditch QSI and crank out everything under thier so called blueline. However QSI are gaining use in factory engines from Walthers and others while others like MRC and Bachmann hang tight.

Riverossi, AHM and IHC will always be one and the same, the difference is the flanges for me. Pizza Cutter or non-pizza cutter.

I recall a myth that Athearn's President used to sit down with Roundhouse's President over breakfast and sort out which company will produce which kits. I have not ever been able to comfirm or defuse this story.

I bought a tube of Liquid Glue from Horizion for 9 dollars including shipping recently to meet a need during a very large amount of construction. I have two tubes ready to be brought home from the LHS at less than 7 dollars. So... lesson, Manufactor Direct or Walthers, Horizion will not save you money, neither will ebay. Example of Ebay, I have watched Kibri Barges of a specific type. Two are availible on ebay for about 80 dollars total (With shipping) while the Walthers show them in transit to arrive about 30 dollars MSRP and I can expect to pay 40-50 bucks with the usual LHS discount in 2008.

It pays to learn the items that you are considering to buy and to shop around, research the item and buy it from the vendor.. either internet, hobby shop, direct or other at the best price you can afford or perhaps find.

Wandering a little off topic here... to this day I never understand why One Widget for 1.00 MSRP can vary wildly across several sources availible to the customer today. Some will cost more with shipping others cost .20 cents shipped to your door after tax.

MSRP may be a obselete breed here and is such a dinosaur as not to know it's pending demise. For example, I found a BLI locomotive that was rare during my hunt at a Ohio Store for MSRP at 360 dollars plus shipping... way too much. I ended up buying it direct from BLI outlet for about 225 total. I bet the Ohio engine is STILL on the shelf today.

[modelmaker51]

I just went to the Horizon Hobbies website. No deals there. Looks like everything is full list price.

That is another sign of an industry in consolidation....with less competition there is no reason to cut prices.

The more I look, the less I like what I am seeing in this hobby.

TTM 

No, I don't agree.  I've noticed over the years that ANY company when they sell their items direct, nearly always sell them at MSRP.  That goes for Walthers (unless they are having a sale) and most other companies.  So companies selling items themselves as a rule ask MSRP and its never a good idea to buy direct because of that.

Yeah, never buy from the manufacturer, or Walthers unless it's the last resort.

[riogrande5761]

I just went to the Horizon Hobbies website. No deals there. Looks like everything is full list price.

That is another sign of an industry in consolidation....with less competition there is no reason to cut prices.

The more I look, the less I like what I am seeing in this hobby.

TTM 

No, I don't agree.  I've noticed over the years that ANY company when they sell their items direct, nearly always sell them at MSRP.  That goes for Walthers (unless they are having a sale) and most other companies.  So companies selling items themselves as a rule ask MSRP and its never a good idea to buy direct because of that.

[G Paine]

Magnuson made structure kits in resin IIRC, I'm not sure if they were always a subsidiary of Walthers or if Walthers bought them. Anyway, several Magnuson kits (Walthers Water St. HQ building, White Tower/Castle restaurant) were re-done by Walthers as plastic kits.

JAKS Industries had been producing the Magnuson resin kit line of structures. I just checked their site and Magnuson is no longer listed, but the Magnuson line of kits still appears in their catalog under Scale Structures LTD. SS LTD also has small some resin kits that used to be made by Woodland Scenics, like Meltnick's Ice; as well as a line of cast metal detail parts, mostly for buildings. SS LTD also lists Nevada Car & Foundry, which looks like machine shop and mining equipment. JAKES also produce / distribute Alloy Forms vehicles.

http://www.jaksind.com/

[fwright]

(Look out, forum heresy coming.) It doesn't really matter to each of us personally if the hobby is shrinking or growing overall -- because a large percentage of what the market produces is not going to be of interest to each of us as individuals (wrong scale, wrong era, wrong prototype, etc., etc.). But the effect of diversification and computer-aided product design and marketing means that almost every one of us has a wider variety of models and other products from which to choose than ever in the hobby's history, no question. (Except maybe those modeling 1910 or earlier-- sorry, Dave H.)

Byron

Model RR Blog

Byron

A very good post.  And I would have to say as one of those few(?) who model late 19th Century, things are looking up in our direction, too.  The internet and its enablement of communities of interest to communicate rapidly and effectively has revitalized the basement and part time hobby suppliers.  No longer does a model railroader with a day job who makes 2-10 dozen extra parts or cars or locomotive castings have to advertise in Model Railroader and wait months to sell his excess production.  He produces the items, announces them in the appropriate Yahoo groups, and sells them direct and/or via eBay.  This is happening in many niche areas of the hobby which may or may not have a large enough market to be served by plastic mass production.  But you won't ever find out about these items at the big on-line discounters or in the pages of Model Railroader.

In HOn3 for example, there are probably less than 20 hobby shops in the U.S. that carry a reasonable sampling of what is available in the scale/gauge.  But those 20 (or fewer) shops do a great of scouting and working with the basement and part-time suppliers to carry and sell their lines.  Is Trainworld going to do this?  No, Trainworld's mission is to move unsold quantities for the major manufacturers.  And they are very good at what they do.   So, as Byron points out, the diversity of the hobby is such that even if you looked at the books of some major manufacturers, you still wouldn't have the complete picture.

At the same time, as this thread demonstrates, the longevity of plastic and metal injection dies has kept many items from the "glory years" still available for those who wish to buy them.  So at least for the present, we have the best of both worlds.

my thoughts

Fred W