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Poll #3 RTR over KITS

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Poll #3 RTR over KITS
Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, January 18, 2004 4:14 PM
Thanks for answers, if you have any comments on any of the polls, please post and I'll include them in the results, as a separate PRO or CON.
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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, January 18, 2004 4:21 PM
I started out on RTR, then when I saw what was available in kits, I decided that kits were the way that I wanted to go. That doesn't mean that someone else who decides to stay with RTR is wrong. I think there's enough room in this hobby for everyone's likes and dislikes.

The attitude in our club is "run what ya brung", and if that means it's a $25.00 cheap-o RTR or a $189.00 kit with super detailing, it's all going to run on our layout, so bring it in and have fun with it.

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Posted by AggroJones on Sunday, January 18, 2004 4:27 PM
At least kits require some skill to assemble. RTR takes most of the modelling out of model railroading. (unless you disassemble the RTR for detailing and easier weathering.)

"Being misunderstood is the fate of all true geniuses"

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Posted by AntonioFP45 on Sunday, January 18, 2004 4:41 PM
Even though I agree with AggroJones and I voted kits, this is a double edged sword. My closest friend who owns his own technology business pointed out to me a few years back that many seasoned modelers that work full time in today's fast paced world don't have as much time as they used a decade or two ago so many modelers would appreciate something that won't take months to detail. Beginners would also find it easier to have realistic looking models. This was during the time period that Proto introduced a high nosed GP diesel with doors that could open and windshield wipers. I was criticizing the fact that modelers that work to detail models improve their skills and enjoy the fun. I was a workaholic myself a few years ago (almost ruined my health) and have to admit seldom found time to model. There is room for RTR and I like them but I will continue to go the kit route whenver possible.

"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"

 


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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, January 18, 2004 4:59 PM
I am totally in favor of kits! I think the position people don't have time to build kits is preposterous! This is what this hobby is all about. It can takes as little as 5-20 minutes to assemble a shake the box kit from Athearn, Accurail or MDC. I find myself attracted to building more and more highly detailed kits like Branchline Blueprint, Red Caboose, and Life Like P2K. And I still love Accurail, even though they are pretty simple!

I am a modeller, have been since the mid 1950s. That's where my heart is!
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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, January 18, 2004 5:22 PM
But what about rookies? They don't want to spend an hour (or more) building a kit when they could be running trains!
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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, January 18, 2004 5:25 PM
I put yes and no. After receiving a disabling injury, my physical problems although they come and go decide whether I'd buy RTR or kits. The closest to RTR that I've bought being Kato's, I still love the kits. As a matter of fact I'm making a SD40T-2w. A tunnel motor with a wide cab. I had to buy a kit to make this funny looking loco, but if I want a CNW SD40-2 or something I may go the RTR way. So for me it is both as long as RTR don't phase out kits.


Thanks,
Jeremy
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Posted by joecool1212 on Sunday, January 18, 2004 5:33 PM
I like rtr because im still building my collection so when I need to add somthing rtr is quicker to put in service but if I see somthing Ill get the kit, but I might not assemble it for a while. It all depends on how much time i have to devote to each area of the hobby. Also I find some brands of rtr rolling stock need less maintence than others. Joe
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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, January 18, 2004 5:41 PM
I prefer kits. I do have some RTR, but it's almost like they aren't even mine. Running RTR to me is like using someone elses equipment. I just don't have the link to it that I have to the things I've actually built.

This is just how I feel about it.

Warren
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Posted by Mikeygaw on Sunday, January 18, 2004 5:41 PM
i'll admit that im not very skilled at building the kits, but i try. If a model is too complicated for me or i screw it up too much, i'll buy the rtr atleast too look good when showing it off.
Conrail Forever!
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Posted by RhB_HJ on Sunday, January 18, 2004 6:15 PM
You start with R-T-R and progress from there!

Kits are not that special, provided they're well designed and have good instructions.
Scratchbuilding is more of a challenge!

BTW RTR is perfect if the "right" product is offered! We don't need to reinvent the wheel!

Kitbashing is the cat's meow once you get the hang of it i.e. know what to look for in a kit that can be modified ; it doesn't need to be written up in a mag!
Cheers HJ http://www.rhb-grischun.ca/ http://www.easternmountainmodels.com
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Posted by Roadtrp on Sunday, January 18, 2004 6:21 PM
Having just started in MR, I like RTR and built-up buildings. The #1 thing I like is running my trains, and I want to get a decent (if not entirely realistic looking) layout up and running as quickly as possible. Once I have that accomplished, I can go back and weather my houses and trains, get into more complex scenery, and start building kits.
-Jerry
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Posted by Big_Boy_4005 on Sunday, January 18, 2004 6:33 PM
I did not answer this poll.

To me this question has no real meaning for 2 reasons. First, in the scale that I model
( 3 rail O ) this isn't an issue since everything is ready to run. Second, the question is begging to divide the hobby and set the stage for more intolerance and conflict. See my response to poll 2.

By answering this poll, we start down the road of who's right and who's wrong, and that is road leads only to trouble.
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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, January 18, 2004 6:43 PM
I would go with kits becuase they are cheaper. Since i Am in junior high i don't have alot of money so i need to by kit's.
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Posted by tomwatkins on Sunday, January 18, 2004 6:54 PM
I prefer kits to RTR because I like building models and adding details. However, there is a place for both in the hobby. RTR makes sense if you can afford them and would rather spend money instead of time. Hopefully both will continue to be available in good supply and variety.
Have fun,
Tom Watkins
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Posted by CP5415 on Sunday, January 18, 2004 7:13 PM
If there's a locomotive or piece of rolling stock i want, the only thing that'll usually stop me is price.
I do prefer the "kits" though. To me there is a satisfying feeling I get after assembling an Athearn, Accurail or Roundhouse kit. It's just not the same as taking something out of the box & placing it on the rails.
I have 2 Intermountain kits I inherited from my dad I haven't tackled yet. I'm saving those for when I get most of my scenery done.
The one thing I wished that all manufacturers would do is put KD's in the box instead of the crappy imitations.

Gordon

Brought to you by the letters C.P.R. as well as D&H!

 K1a - all the way

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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, January 18, 2004 8:22 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by dougal

But what about rookies? They don't want to spend an hour (or more) building a kit when they could be running trains!

An hour spent is not a kit! Thats just shaking a box and having stiff fall out right! What some of us "old timers" refer to as a kit starts life as a box of sticks (or brass) and some crude instructions, and ends up a piece of rolling stock, or an engine, or a factory complex, some 20 or 30 hours later!
Get yourself an old RedBall, Gloorcraft, or Quality craft kit. They are relatively inexpensive at train shows, 10-15 bucks will get you a nice basic kit. Follow the directions (look at the pictures) take your time and do the VERY BEST job you can. Use lots of sanding sealer to hide the woodgrain, (unless its a wood sheathed reefer)double check all measurements before installing the grabirons, and paint carefully. Even if it comes out halfway decent, you will be prouder of that car that any other in the fleet.
You can't get that feeling in a box!
Your friends reaction?----------->[:O][wow][C):-)][yeah]
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Posted by IRONROOSTER on Sunday, January 18, 2004 10:02 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005


....in the scale that I model
( 3 rail O ) this isn't an issue since everything is ready to run. ....

You can always build a O scale kit and use lionel trucks and couplers.

Personally, I like RTR because it gets me up and running faster, but I also enjoy building kits.
By having both the hobby is attractive to more people and we all benefit. I suspect that a fair number of the RTR folks will eventually build a kit and most of the kit folks will buy a RTR diesel (can't hardly get a diesel kit) .

Enjoy
Paul

If you're having fun, you're doing it the right way.
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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, January 18, 2004 10:33 PM
Since you ask, I'll tell you what I think. RTR isn't model railroading, its playing with trains.

The essence of model railroading is putting something of yourself in to a project, regardless of how elementary and artless the result. Buying RTR is putting the contents of your wallet on display.

Someone who doesn't have the time and won't make the effort to develope the skills, is someone who likes trains, they aren't a model railroader.

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Posted by Roadtrp on Sunday, January 18, 2004 11:09 PM
I like trains!!!
[:D][:D]

And just what the heck is so bad about that??
[?][?]

After I've been with it a bit, I may well decided to get much more serious about the modeling end of it. But in the meantime, I'm out there buying stuff from the LHS and the internet, stuff that probably has a higher profit margin since it is built. Thereby keeping the LHS guys in business so folks like you who want to build everything from toothpicks can!
-Jerry
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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, January 19, 2004 1:27 AM
I feel that Ready to Run has its place in the hobby and am glad after years of Bachmann, Tyco, and Life-Like hell that quality ready to run pieces are being offerd by people like Walthers, Spectrum, (Interestingly a division of Bachmann!) and Athearn, (Though for some reason ever piece of Athearn RTR I have orderd has been sub standard. But with my discussions with other modelers I am told I must be extreamly unlucky as all of theirs has been red leter perfect) I feel that Ready to Roll only leads to a limited satisfaction of you are truely modeling. You may just want to run trains and Ready to Run fills your needs completely, Thats fine, Even Great, What ever floats your boat. But for me, If there is no modeling involved. Even the ritualistic assembly of a Basic Box Car kit, I feel what's the point. Its just a piece of plastic I took out of the box and set on the track. ANd it wasn't much fun. For me model railroading is the fun derived from going through the process of building things. Not running things around on fancy circles of track. (What I consider the new Chicago Museum of Science and Industry layout to be) As for my layout, While I hope it to be operational, so that I can show freinds and family and one day the public the fruits of my laborings. If I never truely get there. I' wont be all that upset. As All the fun I had building the models on it is what the hobby is about for me.
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Posted by Big_Boy_4005 on Monday, January 19, 2004 2:46 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by IRONROOSTER

QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005


....in the scale that I model
( 3 rail O ) this isn't an issue since everything is ready to run. ....

You can always build a O scale kit and use lionel trucks and couplers.

Personally, I like RTR because it gets me up and running faster, but I also enjoy building kits.
By having both the hobby is attractive to more people and we all benefit. I suspect that a fair number of the RTR folks will eventually build a kit and most of the kit folks will buy a RTR diesel (can't hardly get a diesel kit) .

Enjoy
Paul




That's a very good point Paul, and maybe some day I will get around to it. As it stands right now, I have almost 500 cars on the rails with no power. They are sitting in the only partially hidden "hidden yard" collecting dust, as I work to build the layout. I was tired of having them packed away in boxes, so with 600 feet of track down, I decided to take them out for inspiration, and it worked![:D]

Come to think of it, in 30 years in this hobby, I've never done any rolling stock tougher than a "shake the box" Athearn. I guess I prefer structures, those I've done quite a few, and a lot from scratch at that. Thanks for the wake up call.[:D]
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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, January 19, 2004 7:05 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by kbfcsme

QUOTE: Originally posted by dougal

But what about rookies? They don't want to spend an hour (or more) building a kit when they could be running trains!

An hour spent is not a kit! Thats just shaking a box and having stiff fall out right! What some of us "old timers" refer to as a kit starts life as a box of sticks (or brass) and some crude instructions, and ends up a piece of rolling stock, or an engine, or a factory complex, some 20 or 30 hours later!
Get yourself an old RedBall, Gloorcraft, or Quality craft kit. They are relatively inexpensive at train shows, 10-15 bucks will get you a nice basic kit. Follow the directions (look at the pictures) take your time and do the VERY BEST job you can. Use lots of sanding sealer to hide the woodgrain, (unless its a wood sheathed reefer)double check all measurements before installing the grabirons, and paint carefully. Even if it comes out halfway decent, you will be prouder of that car that any other in the fleet.
You can't get that feeling in a box!
Your friends reaction?----------->[:O][wow][C):-)][yeah]


Thank You

Someone has defined what a "kit" is. However this is a skill that not everyone is capable of. Unless they can find someone to take the time to show them. And from what I'm reading not everyone has this as an option.
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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, January 19, 2004 8:39 AM
If there ISN'T room for everyone's preferences, the hobby is in more trouble than we think.
Ours is not like so many "other" hobbies...there's a huge diversity of approaches we can take. Someone who buys RTR equipment, but builds excellent scenery, buildings, or electrical control systems, or who faithfully runs a timetable and \ or a car forwarding system IS certainly a model railroader.
But if there's no layout, and the models are in a display case, they may be a "collector" instead....[:0]
Someone who scratchbuilds or kitbashes extremely detailed rolling stock, but isn't so great at doing backdrops or who has crude-looking trees, is still a model railroader, as long as there's a layout and track involved.
Otherwise, they may be a "model-builder" instead.....[:X]
What difference should it make to us as individuals whether we are everything that some self-styled "expert" decides we should be ? Where's the fun in having to adhere to some sort of "checklist" of values and choices ?[?]
regards
Mike
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Posted by BNSFNUT on Monday, January 19, 2004 8:52 AM
I enjoy building kits (I also do some scratch building) but I have some RTR equipment as it saves time and is the only way I can get the car I want. I built all my structures from kit or scratch built but I have one built up structure I just could not resist.
How many modelers complain about all the RTR stuff on the market but are happy to take an Atlas or Kato deisel out of the box and drop it on the track? Any one want to scratch build a SD70?

There is no such thing as a bad day of railfanning. So many trains, so little time.

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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, January 19, 2004 10:05 AM
Hmmm.... I cannot believe that there are people out there that cannot assemble an Athearn gondola or caboose! We're not talking rocket science. 2 screws and a couple of clicks, glue 2 parts . This is not like assembling a Tamiya Tiger tank or something very complex. If they have physical problems maybe. Time wise it takes almost as much time to open a RTR box as is does to do the basic assembly of some kits. The advantage to kits would that you can customize with out taking the car apart, thus making it not RTR. There are plenty of RTR's out there that are almost the same as the kits. I have a Bachman caboose that is exactly like an Athearn kit.(I was SHOCKED) Paid a lot less money for it that the Athearn RTR's. Athearn caboose kit that takes 5 minutes to put together. $5.75 Same car in the same condition RTR $14. $8 for 5 mins work or $96 an hour to do it and in CHINA!!!! You tell me !!! Oh course there are middle men etc.etc.

RMax
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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, January 19, 2004 11:22 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005

I did not answer this poll.

To me this question has no real meaning for 2 reasons. First, in the scale that I model
( 3 rail O ) this isn't an issue since everything is ready to run. Second, the question is begging to divide the hobby and set the stage for more intolerance and conflict. See my response to poll 2.

By answering this poll, we start down the road of who's right and who's wrong, and that is road leads only to trouble.
Your first point is well taken, however the second is begging to be answered because this is an issue that is with us on global scale today . Around the world today, MRR Manufactureres are trying to cope with an ever changing hobby, ever changing attitudes about the hobby, and most of all, economic conditions around the world, that could all but destroy this hobby as well as others. I've been in this hobby for 51 years, and in that time, I've seen it and most other hobbies, fall so low, that hobbyshops just couldn't stay in bussiness. Without hobbyshops, we really don't have a hobby, unless you want to scratchbuild everything. So MRR Manufactureres have to trim down to make a profit and stay in bussiness. What do they do, continue with a line of kits that maybe only a few diehards still want or do they go with the ever growing demand for RTR. Ignoring this issue won't make it go away, it's like the one and only bad penny that keeps showing up. I think, really, that most modelrailroaders, are a very intelligent lot and they see the trends occurring and don't really know what to do about it, or how others really feel. I don't think this is going to devide the hobbiest, but rather show what the real demand is.
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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, January 19, 2004 12:07 PM
I'm just starting my second layout and I'm building structures from scratch. Also making some turnouts from Nickel silver rails. I enjoy trying to build in the late 30's or early forties. I also like the old rural scenes of up-state NY. I'm not adverse to RTR power if I can find them - especially smaller switchers.

I think that the hobby has room for everyone and after a while most folks do some kits for special effects or a singular need for their own pike.


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Posted by Hawks05 on Monday, January 19, 2004 9:28 PM
RTR was pretty nice to have when i just started but now i kind of like the kits. you can do pretty much what you want with them. they are nice to customize stuff for your railroad.

its hard to say which is better. if you are just starting its nice to get RTR stuff to get going but then you find that kits are better.
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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, January 20, 2004 4:07 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Roadtrp

I like trains!!!
[:D][:D]

And just what the heck is so bad about that??
[?][?]

After I've been with it a bit, I may well decided to get much more serious about the modeling end of it. But in the meantime, I'm out there buying stuff from the LHS and the internet, stuff that probably has a higher profit margin since it is built. Thereby keeping the LHS guys in business so folks like you who want to build everything from toothpicks can!

[bow][#ditto][bow][#ditto][bow][#ditto][bow][#ditto][bow][#ditto][bow][#ditto][bow]
I voted RTR. I have nothing against kits; it's just that when I see something I like I want to get it home, watch it run, and have fun doing so. What's wrong with that???

Okay, Emerald--I think I've responded to all of your polls![(-D]

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