discontinuance of stars

[Roadtrp]

While we're getting rid of everyone else, could we get rid of Republicans too??

[(-D][;)][:D][:-,][:D][;)][(-D]

[Anonymous]

For my part I would: Do away with the stars, do away with lengthy signature blocks, do away with 'smilie' graphics apps, do away with UP bashing and Athern whines, do away with repetitive threads and single-line 'noise' posts.

If it encourages the less mature and less sentient to go elsewhere, where they can "have more fun", well and good. I'd consider that a sizable net gain for this forum.

Randy

[Anonymous]

You're right! Let's forget about this topic!

[RhB_HJ]

Hey gang,

Is it possible we all just get a life and talk about trains instead of silly stars?

Good!

BTW just keep the personal stuff out of things, the "he did, I didn't" doesn't work all that well in fora. If your reasoning won't convince the other guy, your insults or accusations most certainly won't either.[:)][:)][;)]

[cacole]

Reading through this forum is where my 3M Renaissance Mouse with scrolling comes in mighty handy. When I start to read a topic, I set automatic scrolling down through the posts and don't even stop on those that are one-liners or are full of cutsie smilies, because I know those people usually have posted nothing of value. I keep the scroll speed at such a rate that I can read at least the first line of every post as it scrolls up the screen.

Having been trained in speed reading, I can get the gist of every post while they scroll and sometimes I don't even need to stop to read through a more substantive comment unless it's scrolling too fast. As a general rule, you can read just the first sentence of a lengthy post and know whether or not there is really anything of value in it, especially if it is broken into several paragraphs.

As far as young members are concerned, we need to do everything we can to encourage them to participate, not try to drive them away. Remember, you probably started out as a young modeler yourself. Would you still be in the hobby today if your elders had called you names and been hostile towards you back then? I don't think I would be. I would probably have looked for something else to do.

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dougal

I said to Union Pacific Rules that although we started posting around the same time, I was doing more posts than him, but he had some great posts. Well, ever since this topic, I have been trying to post many good posts. For one thing dharmon, YOU have posted at a rate around my speed, only a little slower. Ever since all of you have been talking about kicking teens out of the forums and scrapping the forums I don't feel like placing too many "I agree", "same here" or "yes". But, as 4884bigboy said, "Sometimes it's fun to post a little [bday] or [:D].

Dude you need to chill out and throttle back......the scrap the forums was sort of a joke...but in a sense not. This is the kind of stuff that drives folks off forums. You need to reread the posts hoss and figure out what I said. If you can show me where I HAVE EVER talked about kicking someone off the forum for other than misconduct, I'd like to see it. I 'm on your side in case you didn't read the two or three posts above..with the genesis between Mr. ACL Fan and yourself..... To coin a RRism...STOP LOOk LISTEN..if you're going to try to blast me, do it for the right reasons.

[Anonymous]

I said to Union Pacific Rules that although we started posting around the same time, I was doing more posts than him, but he had some great posts. Well, ever since this topic, I have been trying to post many good posts. For one thing dharmon, YOU have posted at a rate around my speed, only a little slower. Ever since all of you have been talking about kicking teens out of the forums and scrapping the forums I don't feel like placing too many "I agree", "same here" or "yes". But, as 4884bigboy said, "Sometimes it's fun to post a little [bday] or [:D].

[Anonymous]

This forum is starting to become more and more like


American and Canadian Idol

. Where the judges are vying for ratings and not the contestants. Within the last couple of weeks I've noticed the number of curt remarks in some other threads have increased. I would have to say by the majority of comments made that the following should apply hear:

-Don't sweat the small things
-Where the majority of us live in a democracy we have the right to express ourselves, However if you read the fine print it will go on to say that opinions expressed shall not be libelous, slanderous, malicious and disrespectful.
-Tolerance goes a long way
-If someone's opinion is based on poor or misguided information then "Educate them, don’t berate them"
-A guiding hand can point beyond the stars, whereas a dominating hand can only influence that which is within its own grasp and is further limited by those who are short sighted

If some keep perpetuating this attitude of "If I don't want to read your comments you shouldn't print it" Then we are all in trouble. After all model railroading is about nurturing abilities and talents and we all need to start somewhere.

And finally
If you Can't be Nice, Then Don't be anything!!

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ACL Fan

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmonI presume that you would not have nearly 100 posts if making a positive comment once in a while was among the criterea.

Why not go for contructive, helpful, friendly, heck even frivilous(sp) once in a while (unlike the the one I referenced) instead of trying to prove that you can post the most arrogantly.

While your comment is cute, it's wrong. Take a look at my record. Tell me that the overwhelming majority of my posts haven't been substantive, constructive posts that discuss actual techniques related to model railroading. They are.

But I'm becoming tired of the kids here who think the goal is to post one-liners like, "ummmmm...i don't know" when someone asks for advice. Or the one who said steel rail is a good idea...but really didn't know what he was talking about.

I'd like to see them post with a question they need answered or an answer that's accurate instead of treating this board like a contest where the goal is to post as much crap as possible to get stars.

Then why is when I read one of your posts, it sounds like it's coming from the mountain top or a tall soapbox at least? When MR requires all poster to show proof of a master modelers certificate from NMRA to post "advice" or we have to start subscribing to the forum, then I'd say you have a right to complain. Some people do go for the stars..like merit badges...big deal, skip over it and press on. You don't like what they say, big deal, get over it. If they're wrong..not because of technique or opinion, but factually ...how about, "I'm not exactly sure what your experience with steel track is but here's mine and why" ...

On second thought..forget what I said ..go back to being a grumpy old dude.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmonI presume that you would not have nearly 100 posts if making a positive comment once in a while was among the criterea.

Why not go for contructive, helpful, friendly, heck even frivilous(sp) once in a while (unlike the the one I referenced) instead of trying to prove that you can post the most arrogantly.

While your comment is cute, it's wrong. Take a look at my record. Tell me that the overwhelming majority of my posts haven't been substantive, constructive posts that discuss actual techniques related to model railroading. They are.

But I'm becoming tired of the kids here who think the goal is to post one-liners like, "ummmmm...i don't know" when someone asks for advice. Or the one who said steel rail is a good idea...but really didn't know what he was talking about.

I'd like to see them post with a question they need answered or an answer that's accurate instead of treating this board like a contest where the goal is to post as much crap as possible to get stars.

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ACL Fan

QUOTE: Originally posted by dougal

Don't scrap the forums!

P.S. This topic is one of the many topics/replies that I have posted that's not short. www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11487

I bet you wouldn't have almost 400 posts if each one was as well-thought out and informative as the one to which you linked. Unfortunately, most of them are like this recent one, quoted in its entirety:

"I agree with all the winning votes"

Why not go for quality (like the one you referenced) instead of trying to prove you can post the most frequently?

I presume that you would not have nearly 100 posts if making a positive comment once in a while was among the criterea.

Why not go for contructive, helpful, friendly, heck even frivilous(sp) once in a while (unlike the the one I referenced) instead of trying to prove that you can post the most arrogantly.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005

I hear what you're saying, and I try to keep my postings constructive, but sometimes its fun to be silly. I like the stars, and its clear that the teens that use this site like them too. This hobby needs more young people.

Its easy to skip over topics and ignore them, I do it every time I see the word Athearn, as I have no interest in that subject being in O.

I say let them have their fun.

[#ditto][#ditto][#ditto][#ditto][#ditto][#ditto][:)][:)][:)][:)][:)]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dougal

Don't scrap the forums!

P.S. This topic is one of the many topics/replies that I have posted that's not short. www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11487

I bet you wouldn't have almost 400 posts if each one was as well-thought out and informative as the one to which you linked. Unfortunately, most of them are like this recent one, quoted in its entirety:

"I agree with all the winning votes"

Why not go for quality (like the one you referenced) instead of trying to prove you can post the most frequently?

[Anonymous]

Don't scrap the forums!

P.S. This topic is one of the many topics/replies that I have posted that's not short. www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11487

[Anonymous]

For those of you who don't know Dan, he is quite the "nut". He was being his humorous self in the above post.

I get around to most of the forums. I spend the most time in the Train.mag forum. But there are many forum hoppers here, including me. I enjoy the forums. I know that sometimes there isn't much substance to a post. So you can judge people by their post and know which ones to skip over. There is a lot of kidding in some threads. I receive kidding and give some. The longer you are a forum member the more "family" oriented it becomes to you. I received emails on a daily basis from forum members, and many send me pictures too.

Don't worry about the starts. Just enjoy the forums, learn what you can learn, share what you can share, be encouraging, be supportive, be helpful. Let other things work themselves out and try not to be a forum "fighter". We don't need any wars in any of the forums.

Don't forget, email me, and send me pics. [:)]

[dharmon]

I say we just scrap the forums..

All this complaining about posters, postings, polls, pop-ups, personalities....and such

Just shut it down. If everyone can't be happy all the time...just shut it down

[Anonymous]

tpaulsen:

You've clearly never visited forums in which anyone posted anything they wished, on-topic or not. If you had, you'd understand what we're talking about here. That kind of behavior destroys forums, runs off visitors, and eventually gets them shut down.

And if you think you have the absolute "freedom" to say whatever you like here, you're 100% wrong. The US Constitution guarantees that Congress shall make no law prohibiting freedom of speech. It most assuredly does not mean every American can say anything they want anywhere. (If you don't believe me, say something legally actionable on this privately-owned board and watch it disappear..)

Along with freedom comes responsibility and that is was I am asking be exercised in this case.

[Anonymous]

The last time I checked, this place I live in is called America, Home of the Free. I value that freedom and do what I can to maintain it. With that freedom comes freedom of speech. I do believe this includes both oral and written comments. If folks are happy getting their names into the forums a hundred times or a thousand times, let them do it. It should make no difference to any of us. If you are turned off by the stars that seem important to others, why not just ignore them? You do not have to read every post. You have the God given right to ignore the things you do not like. You do not have the God given right to tell anyone else how to conduct themselves. We are all different, all have different interests, all have different modeling skills, all have different interests of one sort or another in the hobby. Why not accept people for who they are? Let them live their lives as they see fit? Let them have their fun? It can do you no harm, and like I stated, you can choose to ignore their input instead of sitting there steaming about it. The forums are for everyone, absolutely everyone.

Tom

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CP5170

I would like to see the discontinuance of stars and the reporting of the number of reponses given. Lately, it seems that too many of the users are more interested in getting their numbers up than the quality of their response. On many posts, we have to wade through the "atta boy" comments to get to the meat.

Personally, when I see that masonjar, dehusman and nfmisso have responded, I am anxious to see what they have to say because their comments are always substantive and helpful. I know that there are a lot of users who add value to the forum and I think that if we eliminate the stars, we'll see more meaningful dialogue.

Just my thoughts...Ken

I thought I would respond to this thread, since I was mentioned in the post that started it off...!

The stars don't mean much to me, although I must admit that when I first started I wondered if I'd ever get one! I don't think that the majority of people put in "way to go" (or false information, as one reply alleges) just to up the number of stars they have.

Having said that, I will have to respectfully disagree with you Ken - I do think the "atta boys" are good on occasion, whether to express admiration for really outstanding work, or to encourage newcomers.

For example: Paul Templar, known for high quality logging layouts has a seemingly astronomical post count on a number of forums. He has tons of experience and knowledge, having been at this for a while now, and he always gives useful suggestions and advice - but he also is liberal with his praise for work done by modellers of all ages and skill levels. Now imagine that you are starting out with your first logging layout and you post some pics of your work. Wouldn't it be great to get a "way to go!" from Paul? Or if you're into gritty city scenes, wouldn't a nice comment from George Sellios encourage you?

Anyway, I take the stars for what they are - a count of posts - and not as an indicator of experience or knowledge. Like Ken (CP5170) I now look for replies by certain people, and for questions or comments that interest me. I skip the rest.


Andrew

PS - Thanks for the compliment Ken [:)]

[AntonioFP45]

Until it was mentioned, I wasn't aware of how this "star system" worked. I'm with the majority here in that I'm interested in high quality, helpful information that makes modeling even more enjoyable. As I've stated on another thread, I've learned more in 4 months then I have in the past decade. A number of you in the above responses are the ones that have answered my inquiries and I wholeheartedly thank you all for that.

Yes, some posts are obviously just for the "numbers" but if your connection speed is 56k or higher, it's very easy to glance at a post, gauge the value to see if it's a good post. It it's not helpful or interesting to you, just click and move on. Total of what; 10 seconds? Let the teens be. I'm 40 but I clearly remember my teen years in this hobby and while my experience was good, I would be "snubbed" every now and then by an experienced modeler at my LHS. Not a very cool feeling. By kids standards, I'm the "old timer" now and prefer to encourage them, even if they do seem to have even wackier values than my generation did then.

I won't be concerned about my "star status" as all I'm interested in is what I can learn from you guys & gals, and what I can share with you if I can.
Peace Out! God Bless!

[RhB_HJ]

QUOTE: Originally posted by LightBender

Hello RhB_HJ,

QUOTE: 45 replies and counting!

Amusingly most of them are posts that claim posting to this thread is stupid or silly

QUOTE: aliases! That together with nary an entry in the profile makes me smile.

Sorry mate, but the temptation is too great.

ME TOO

Hey Tony, [;)][;)]

That's the spirit. I'll give you a call next time I'm in Van and have some time. Perhaps we can get together for a coffee or some such. Eh!?

[Anonymous]

Now I really couldn't give a whit about stars or post counts but something else came up here which does get to me. I saw some attitudes about our younger members. Fortunately, most posters here came out in support of our younger folks. I wish it was laways that way. Please bear with me this story might be a little long.

Many, many years ago a list showed up at the hobby shop where I got started in Model trains. A list to start a new club. I was one of the first to sign that list. Still in high school, never built a layout, but I wanted to get involved. Well, we finally held the organizational meetings which led to creating a club which is still in existence today and in fact has had a lot of influence in this hobby. But along the way the meetings were taken over by some guys with major incomes who wanted a big fancy club fast. And that needed money. So they set a dues schedule they could meet but was going to be hard for an average Joe and even worse for a high shool kid. And the result was that I was being asked to give a higher percentage of my income to the club with no say in how it was to run. Not even a guaranteed forum to speak up if the big bucks guys didn't want me to. So I walked away. And I haven't joined any model railroading organization since. Probably never will. Almost walked away from the hobby, but it got it's teeth into me anyway.

Now the point of this is that we sometimes forget what efforts are being put into our hobby by those of few years or few hours or few bucks. People who have a lot to contribute but somehow get told they don't count. Now, I saw just a hint that some of that may still exist. Just a hint, mind you, but enought to dredge up some painful memories. I don't want to see the next potential John Allen or Linn Westcott chased away because someone made them think they weren't valued.

Just give this a thought for a moment and think about why the NMRA is facing the membership problems it is or why this hobby isn't any bigger than it is. Just compare the per capita participation now with what it was when MR and the NMRA started.

Sorry to go on so long but a nerve got touched.

[lyctus]

I don't care one way or the other about the stars, but I like the fact that I can join in with a bunch of like minded people and kick topics around, just like a club, without some guy spilling his coffee all over your shoes or boring you to death. If I lose interest in a topic I can just click out of it.....try doing that face to face and remaining Mr nice guy !

[Anonymous]

Hello RhB_HJ,

QUOTE: 45 replies and counting!

Amusingly most of them are posts that claim posting to this thread is stupid or silly

QUOTE: aliases! That together with nary an entry in the profile makes me smile.

Sorry mate, but the temptation is too great.

ME TOO

[RhB_HJ]

45 replies and counting!
Ever notice that something completely unrelated to model railroading will get lots of replies?

Being as I frequent a few fora on either side of the Atlantic I have noticed that the "atta boy" replies are dominant on the "star" fora.
That together with the large signatures.

Actually it's not too bad yet; I was slightly apprehensive when I added my standard JPG to my sig that next thing everyone would have a multi-logo, flashing and dancing letters sig.[}:)][}:)][:p]

Of course the other thing that's really amusing: aliases! That together with nary an entry in the profile makes me smile. but hey, to each his own (and a little bit more for me [}:)][;)][:o)][:D])

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by vsmith

This is a silly topic!

Why does anyone care about the stars? Yes I know I have a lot of 'em, but I've also been on this forum for a long time and I'm active on most of the forums. The number of stars is just a consiquence of time and participation, the longer your active the more you eventually will get, and I dont understand why anyone is getting worked up about this .

Its only an issue if you somehow feel intimidated or something by others ratings, you shouldnt, and this is not something to get bent over. Get bent about Athern discontinuing kits or the Big Boy vs Alley madness, those are better topics than this. Thats all I have to say.

This is the most ASININE topic I've ever read.

Gentleman (or should I say CHILDREN?), it's not an issue! I repeat: IT'S NOT AN ISSUE. Get over it. You don't like stars? You dislike 'repeat offenders'? Then overlook them. In the time it took you to write about your dislikes you could have visited Garden Railways, Trains & Classic Trains forums and posted something of value to someone.

Discussion over. Class dismissed. Go home and sulk. For God's sake, I can't believe people are making an mountain out of nothing.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by vsmith

. there are at last count over 150,000 members! yet only a realitive few participate, Why?

Has it occurred to you that the topic of this thread--useless replies that clutter up the conversation, meant to generate stars--may be the reason for that?

[vsmith]

Calm down Dave, I hear ya!

Yes, the topics about "I got my first star, WooHoo!" are a bit silly, but it is a more or less open forum. Anyone can post any topic they want. The thing is, If no one replys, the posting dissappears really fast. So I guess its really a matter of if you dont like it just skip it, it will go away pretty fast.

As for the one liner replies, Yes, I agree with you,

dont just reply "Ya! Mongo agree!" say why or why not, offer an opinion, not just a statement. they should get involved more. there are at last count over 150,000 members! yet only a realitive few participate, Why?

[dave9999]

QUOTE: Originally posted by vsmith

This is a silly topic!

Why does anyone care about the stars? Yes I know I have a lot of 'em, but I've also been on this forum for a long time and I'm active on most of the forums. The number of stars is just a consiquence of time and participation, the longer your active the more you eventually will get, and I dont understand why anyone is getting worked up about this .

The reason people are getting worked up is not the number of stars BUT the way
these star totals are being racked up. I've read a lot of you're posts and you have
something constructive to say. These stargazers post A LOT and never say anything except "yeah, I agree, nope, ya". They start arguements over railroads. These "MY RR Is better than you're RR" topics are a waste of space IMO! It's a railroad for Pete's sake!! None of these guys OWN a railroad. Do they???. Then to top it off they start topics about how many stars they have. Did you hear me, they start entire topics about STARS. Dave

[vsmith]

This is a silly topic!

Why does anyone care about the stars? Yes I know I have a lot of 'em, but I've also been on this forum for a long time and I'm active on most of the forums. The number of stars is just a consiquence of time and participation, the longer your active the more you eventually will get, and I dont understand why anyone is getting worked up about this .

Its only an issue if you somehow feel intimidated or something by others ratings, you shouldnt, and this is not something to get bent over. Get bent about Athern discontinuing kits or the Big Boy vs Alley madness, those are better topics than this. Thats all I have to say.