Here is what I wrote on another thread the day before I sent it back:
I got the DPB DCC DVD last week. I've watched it over the last few evenings, and I think I've decided to send it back. The things I was hoping would be interesting were too Digitrax centered. I understand that the block detection and signalling scheme used are loconet based, but that pretty much says the info is not relevent if you are not using Digitrax.
I also though that in several cases where there were opportunities to really explain something, it was glossed over. Installing a wired decoder made no mention of isolation of the motor, and was boiled down to soldering one wire. There was little of no discussion about lighting effects, which could apply to many decoders.
There were a couple things that really made me cringe, the most significant being referring to the track outputs as common and hot. That concept has caused so much confusion and misunderstanding about how DCC works that I was very disappointed to see it in this video.
On the whole it was a reasonable introduction, but in my opinion it ended up glossing over most of the things that would be useful to a beginner trying to choose a system. I thought the section on components was much too rushed, and yet took the time to show how to build a six wire phone cable. And while I understand why, it turned out being too much of a Digitrax advertisement for me.
I think that a follow up might be appropriate, with a lot more actual how to. This one was, in my opinion, claimed to be how to, but almost always stopped short of showing how to do anything.
By the way, I don't mean at all to criticize the effort, or the work of the host. I just don't think the concept really worked, in the end.
An example of one that worked, for me, was David Popp's Operations DVD. I though it did actually show how to operate a model railroad.
Jeff But it's a dry heat!
Midnight Railroader wrote:What a waste of resources.
I most certainly don't think so!
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
Railroadrunner wrote:More like Another BORING Dream, Plan & Build DVD out. Im sorry but they are so boring. I happen to get three of them from a lot I bought. I litterally threw the DVDs away. They awere not worth keeping or sharing with anyone. Sad but true.
Although I havent' seen any in a while now, I actually found the first couple in the series pretty helpful and inciteful. Yes, perhaps a bit dry on delivery. But there were portions that are helpful for both the newbie just starting out, as well as the veteran who's stuck on a particular aspect of modeling and needs some tips in order to move on.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
DigitalGriffin wrote: Midnight Railroader wrote:What a waste of resources.I most certainly don't think so!
I also don't agree!
The whole idea of video how-to's I believe is critical to the future of the hobby, especially if you are going to interest the next generation.
Being a video producer myself, I can see areas in Kalmbach's DPB video production that IMO could be improved, but hey -- they have to start somewhere. Over time, they will only get better.
I own the entire series, if for no other reason than to keep up on what MR's doing in this arena. I personally find the content runs from moderately interesting to a few very interesting chapters. But I have yet to find anything that I would call a total waste.
If you're one of those who thinks this whole thing is a waste, I'd like to know why you think that?
Is it the production values are too poor, the topics aren't of interest, the content is poorly scripted, or the pricing is too high for what you get?
What WOULD interest you in the way of how-to DVDs?
Joe Fugate Modeling the 1980s SP Siskiyou Line in southern Oregon
jfugate wrote:Over time, they will only get better.
How long will it take for them to "get better"?
Midnight Railroader wrote: jfugate wrote:Over time, they will only get better.They've been doing it for several years now and I see far more complaints than compliments on this board.How long will it take for them to "get better"?
Midnight:
You ought to know the complainers always outnumber the positive posters on any forum, and it's considered "cool" by our culture to be someone with a "critical opinion". Plus speaking in generalities is always easy: "it's awful, a waste, ..." yada yada yada".
Let's talk specifics. If the DPB series is so "bad", what's wrong with it? Do the DVDs cost too much for what you get? Are the topics not interesting? Are they too dry and basic? Are the video production values poor? What?
It's always easy to tear down the effort of others -- the real heart of the matter is can you describe what YOU would do that would be better if you had the power to make it happen?
MR's reading this, so here's your chance to maybe get your wish!
jfugate wrote: DigitalGriffin wrote: Midnight Railroader wrote:What a waste of resources.I most certainly don't think so!I also don't agree! The whole idea of video how-to's I believe is critical to the future of the hobby, especially if you are going to interest the next generation.Being a video producer myself, I can see areas in Kalmbach's DPB video production that IMO could be improved, but hey -- they have to start somewhere. Over time, they will only get better.I own the entire series, if for no other reason than to keep up on what MR's doing in this arena. I personally find the content runs from moderately interesting to a few very interesting chapters. But I have yet to find anything that I would call a total waste. If you're one of those who thinks this whole thing is a waste, I'd like to know why you think that? Is it the production values are too poor, the topics aren't of interest, the content is poorly scripted, or the pricing is too high for what you get? What WOULD interest you in the way of how-to DVDs?
Hi Joe,
I have the first few DPB dvd's but sent one back, and couldn't get them to send me anymore. I called( phone) and I wrote, but to no avail, so I gave up on them. However I have purchased a couple of your PDF HOW -TO videos through MR, and found them very good and I learned what I was looking for. Laying flex track was very educational for me. Maybe you are not interested, but perhaps MR DPB production people should use you as a consultant.Perhaps that would help them to improve their videos.
I feel your knowledge and experience would be of a great help to them.In my opinion, you have an overall grasp of the whole scene in MRRing. I know you have a career, and are located far from Kalmbachs studios etc, but you might give it some consideration.Not only that, there are so many of us who have benefitted from your explanations on the forum, and having dedicated so much time in producing your own how-to-videos.
I know I have!
Thanks Joe for all that I have leaned from you!
Ed
aka TheK4Kid
I appreciate the kudos, Ed, but I'd like to know specifically what the Dream Plan Build DVD series is doing right and wrong ... and keep this thread on MR's video work, since this is their forum.
I have some thoughts, but then I'm probably biased. I think we all could benefit from some honest and specific critique of the series and how it could be improved. Just posting vague bellyaching isn't helping anyone.
They have only been doing them for 2 years now and they have been getting better. I was really suprised (even if it was as generic as it was) that they went into such detail with the digitrax system on their latest DVD. I'm going on my 30th year in the hobby and can truly say that I have still learned a thing or two from the DVD's as a whole. I plan on collecting them all.
For one thing, they can be shown on home layout tours that just might interest others that are hobby fence sitters just enough to trigger an interest causing them to dive into the hobby with both hands and feet once they see how easy a technique can be done on any of those videos. They're also great for referencing old techniques for those of us that forget the finer points of any given modeling technique after a good night's sleep. I say: Keep them comming. I'm a hearing type of learner and they grap my interest and my attention better than just visually reading about a modeling technique in a book or magazine.
Joe,
What I personally feel would be a way to improve is to focus less on layout tours that are far beyond the capablities or finances of many of us.Start by doing more "HOW-TO-VIDEOS" using not only Digitrax equipment, but some of the other leading brands.Explan a sunbject such as building a "reversing loop" in DCC, and do it showing several solutions, not just one.Show a "HOW-TO" on correcting turnout problems with let's say Atlas turnouts, and any others that might have problems.Have a HOW-TO on building your own turnouts , using different manufacturers turn out kits.Have some more HOW-TO on installing DCC decoders and sound decoders in various brands of locos , both diesel and steam.Have HOW TO on picking a possiblity of different layout schmes on a 4x8 or a combination of larger layouts.I see these problems addressed again and again here on the forum.How many times do we see this question?
Which DCC system is the best?This would maake another great video, compare the pros and cons of various DCC systems.
Reading about is one thing, but seeing is something altogether different.
Hope I made some sense with my suggestions.
Great response, Ed!
One caveat with doing DCC videos as compared to other how-to video topics -- DCC content ages quickly. For example, if you go back 5 years in MR and read a DCC article, much of the content is now obsolete.
One very good point you make Ed is for MR to look at the common questions that appear on this forum and to make videos that address those questions! That's one of those forehead slappers ... now how obvious is that?
I'll go ahead and put in my 2 cents worth. It may or may not be worth that much.
I have found that most of the DPB DVDs have some good information, especially the normal volumes with tips on different aspects of modeling. There are usually 2 or 3 chapters in any given volume that look very worthwhile and I expect to use them as reference when I get to that point.
I think the project videos are outstanding. The operations on David Popp's layout is the best DVD of all of them. It gave me a good idea of how to run an operating session, something that I didn't get by reading Tony Koester's books (I did think those books were good, but seeing it in action helped me a ton.) The DCC video is also good. Even though it is somewhat biased towards Digitrax, I think there is some good information - the nitty-gritty may be different, but the concepts are presented fairly, I thought.
I also have four (4) Real Rails Editions, one (1) Industries In Action and one (1) Rails Across America edition. I did not find these to be as good. They are more prototypically oriented, and if that is not something that you are interested in, then the videos are really not that helpful. I don't expect to have a steel mill on my layout, for example, so that whole video, while interesting, doesn't help me at all on my layout. Nor do I play to model the Tehachapi Loop, so, while the video has some railfan interest, it is not one I would get if I saw it in a video store, as it has no useful information for me.
The other day I got the newest DVD, a Great American Layouts Edition. It is okay, but I thought this is the least important video I have. It is basically a tour of a very nice layout, with a few minutes of how-to on a couple of aspects of how this layout was made. There is really no discussion of planning, how he came up with the track plan, how he decided what to leave off the railroad, or how the layout was built (benchwork, electrical,etc.). I thought this was Kalmbach's version of Allen Keller's videos (although I have not seen any of them, it is the same concept as I understand it).
I think the production values of the DVDs are quite good. The video is clear, the sound is very easy to hear. The graphics between chapters are well done.
The presentation is not always great. A lot (not all) of the presenters talk in sort of a monotone, and don't seem to have a lot of enthusiasm for the topic. That makes watching them more of a chore sometimes than it should be.
I have been quite disappointed in the timing of these DVDs. They are basically coming about every 4-6 weeks. That is quite an outlay of $$$ for the year. I have not sent any back, mostly due to the comments I have read on this board about people sending one back and not being able to get any more. As I am looking to learn as much as I can, I want the good information. But I wish we could order only those that we thought we wanted, as opposed to the love-it-or-leave-it approach I have read about. If I didn't have so many of these, especially those that don't have much interest to me, then I could use my $$$ for other things that will help my layout come to life, whether that be more lumber or track or locos or Joe Fugate's DVDs.
I guess that sums it up for me.
FT
I find this to be a useful thread about a useful product that should address the needs of only some of the critics here. It is probably those who have moved somewhat further into the hobby, and who have refined their tastes and experience to the point where much of the intended purpose and content of these DVD's is largely irrelevant to them that offer most of the criticism. The DVD's are not intended for the more mature modeller, they are a slick and quick introduction to the hobby for those who have little experience and know-how.
I would think that Joe's fine product is intended for a more mature audience...so to speak. And Joe is right; electronic products age every year, just like cars do. While it constitutes a substantial effort to produce any DVD, if the subject matter is on a moving platform, any single edition will quickly be dated. So, let that dating be taken in stride by more dedicated, current, and interested hobbiests who want to know, and let the DPB product entice the would-be modellers, our new blood, to look further into the subject for themselves.
It has to be a blend of marketing and information, not just a how-to product, as I see it.
ft-fan wrote: I'll go ahead and put in my 2 cents worth. It may or may not be worth that much.I have found that most of the DPB DVDs have some good information, especially the normal volumes with tips on different aspects of modeling. There are usually 2 or 3 chapters in any given volume that look very worthwhile and I expect to use them as reference when I get to that point.I think the project videos are outstanding. The operations on David Popp's layout is the best DVD of all of them. It gave me a good idea of how to run an operating session, something that I didn't get by reading Tony Koester's books (I did think those books were good, but seeing it in action helped me a ton.) The DCC video is also good. Even though it is somewhat biased towards Digitrax, I think there is some good information - the nitty-gritty may be different, but the concepts are presented fairly, I thought.I also have four (4) Real Rails Editions, one (1) Industries In Action and one (1) Rails Across America edition. I did not find these to be as good. They are more prototypically oriented, and if that is not something that you are interested in, then the videos are really not that helpful. I don't expect to have a steel mill on my layout, for example, so that whole video, while interesting, doesn't help me at all on my layout. Nor do I play to model the Tehachapi Loop, so, while the video has some railfan interest, it is not one I would get if I saw it in a video store, as it has no useful information for me. The other day I got the newest DVD, a Great American Layouts Edition. It is okay, but I thought this is the least important video I have. It is basically a tour of a very nice layout, with a few minutes of how-to on a couple of aspects of how this layout was made. There is really no discussion of planning, how he came up with the track plan, how he decided what to leave off the railroad, or how the layout was built (benchwork, electrical,etc.). I thought this was Kalmbach's version of Allen Keller's videos (although I have not seen any of them, it is the same concept as I understand it). I think the production values of the DVDs are quite good. The video is clear, the sound is very easy to hear. The graphics between chapters are well done.The presentation is not always great. A lot (not all) of the presenters talk in sort of a monotone, and don't seem to have a lot of enthusiasm for the topic. That makes watching them more of a chore sometimes than it should be. I have been quite disappointed in the timing of these DVDs. They are basically coming about every 4-6 weeks. That is quite an outlay of $$$ for the year. I have not sent any back, mostly due to the comments I have read on this board about people sending one back and not being able to get any more. As I am looking to learn as much as I can, I want the good information. But I wish we could order only those that we thought we wanted, as opposed to the love-it-or-leave-it approach I have read about. If I didn't have so many of these, especially those that don't have much interest to me, then I could use my $$$ for other things that will help my layout come to life, whether that be more lumber or track or locos or Joe Fugate's DVDs. I guess that sums it up for me.FT
2 ? You wrote a full book page so it is more like $2 dollars worth
It just proves that FT is a generous man with his money.
Im not sure but didnt this come up sometime ago in another thread?
I enjoyed that DVD but found it to be a bit dry. Then we met the man who narrated that little peice.
Usually a bit more meat and taters in those DVDs without trying to wrap everything up neatly at the end of the hour or whatever limit of the DVD would be nice.
I do a little bit of rough video and can only imagine the shooting that needs doing for everything that does make it onto one of those DVDs.
I havent seen a DPB for a time. Maybe there is one coming I dunno. We will find out when and if it does arrive. I like surprises in the mail.
I've kept all the numbered ones so far (9?), as well as David Popp's operation video and the one on Tehachapi (just becasue I've always been fascinated by it). I sent back the one on 'Big Power', which didn't even really tell me how to tell the difference between the big guys, and had too much video of trains going by while we layed next to the tracks.
I have really liked some of the how-to sections, I wish they were longer and more detailed. In particular, I liked the one on one of the earliest DVD's on backdrop painting, for example. There was also one really showing using cardboard lattice for terraforming (as Joe does on one of his). I find that actually seeing these things done really increases my confidence when I get to doing them, better than all the reading I could do. I also wouldn't mind if the layout tours were longer. I guess maybe fewer, longer segments would be my first improvement.
I agree with FT, at the price they are asking, I think they could slow them down a bit.
jfugate wrote:Great response, Ed!One caveat with doing DCC videos as compared to other how-to video topics -- DCC content ages quickly. For example, if you go back 5 years in MR and read a DCC article, much of the content is now obsolete.One very good point you make Ed is for MR to look at the common questions that appear on this forum and to make videos that address those questions! That's one of those forehead slappers ... now how obvious is that?
You hit the nail on the head Joe!!!!!They should take a look at the various problems addressed on the forum, and use it as a guide.I often just come on the forum and browse through the various topics, just to learn, and to see what problems I might have encountered, or possibly may, and see what this guy, or that guy did to correct a problem, or what other solutions are being used.I may not post anything that day,just read and learn.If MR would make videos based on this, where you can SEE what can be done, often makes problems much easier to work with.I am by far from being very experienced, but then again, I am not a total novice.I feel that I learn new things everyday, and hope I always will.By far this forum has been what has kept me going, because I can almost always find something related to what I am ddoing at the time.I owe thanks to MANY of the forum participants who have answered questions for me, offered advice, shared their experiences with me.
Vail and Southwestern RR wrote:I've kept all the numbered ones so far (9?), as well as David Popp's operation video and the one on Tehachapi (just becasue I've always been fascinated by it). I sent back the one on 'Big Power', which didn't even really tell me how to tell the difference between the big guys, and had too much video of trains going by while we layed next to the tracks.I have really liked some of the how-to sections, I wish they were longer and more detailed. In particular, I liked the one on one of the earliest DVD's on backdrop painting, for example. There was also one really showing using cardboard lattice for terraforming (as Joe does on one of his). I find that actually seeing these things done really increases my confidence when I get to doing them, better than all the reading I could do. I also wouldn't mind if the layout tours were longer. I guess maybe fewer, longer segments would be my first improvement. I agree with FT, at the price they are asking, I think they could slow them down a bit.
Hi Jeff, It was the DVD on BIG POWER I sent back, and since then I can't get them to send me anymore, so I have given up, I'll find someone locally who has them and just borrow them if I get a chance.A week after I sent it back, my buddy Denny comes over to help me on the layout one evening, and asked why isent it back, I told him, I just wasn't interested in it, I am a steam guy, and the big diesels just weren't my cup of tea.Denny just shakes his head, and says "Gosh I would have loved to had that DVD, I would have bought it from you!"I do agree that the one with painting a backdrop was very informative for me, as well as some of the other howto projects.If I am going to pay $29.95 a video, I'd like to see them be packed wuith more "HOW-TO" projects.The layout tours are okay, but I would rather have something I can learn from.They also need to have someone who narrates them that can inspire you and keep your attention!
Where's Paul Harvey when you need him???
Denny is huge BNSF fan.He keeps teasing me about allowing him to run his BNSF diesels on my PRR HO layout set in the 40's and 50's LOL!
Hmmmm, the station master will think a time warp has occurred when he sees those diesels running past the station! LOL!
Happy MRRing everyone!
TheK4Kid
Trainman24 wrote:The dpb videos are ok to my opinion but I only made it to Video 4 before they stopped sending them to me. They have provided a lot of info to me, but it is just my opinion.
Trainman24,
Big Power was DVD number 5, after I sent it back, I couldn't BEG them to send anymore. I payed for all of those I kept up to number 4.Go figure!
TheK4Kid wrote: Trainman24 wrote:The dpb videos are ok to my opinion but I only made it to Video 4 before they stopped sending them to me. They have provided a lot of info to me, but it is just my opinion.Trainman24, Big Power was DVD number 5, after I sent it back, I couldn't BEG them to send anymore. I payed for all of those I kept up to number 4.Go figure!TheK4Kid
Yep, go figure!
We've gotten a bunch since then. Sent the DCC one back a couple weeks ago, we'll see what happens now!
Sounds like an all or nothing approach to sending out the videos ...
Once you turn one down, you appear to be considered a liability to the program, so you get axed ... this approach may "lower costs" in the short term, at the expense of longer term customer good will. The fact you can't get back in later feels like you're not that important to them as a customer, once you become "tainted" for the purposes of this program. If true, it doesn't exactly give you a warm fuzzy ...
I wonder if Kalmbach is aware of how the DPB program is being perceived by modelers once they get a disk they send back? It appears that this "one strike and you're out" philosophy leaves a bad taste in people's mouths. It would be nice if that's what they're doing that they said so up front. One would like to think that if they were aware of the frustration this causes, they might change it. I'd like to think so ...
Or at least say in black and white very promiently somewhere: "If you return this DVD unpaid, that terminates your involvement in the DPB series. No future DPB titles will be available to you."
Maybe someone back there at Kalmbach will read this and decide to do something about it ... we can always hope!
Dang it! I wasn't clear. I sent back Big Power, and have gotten at least a half dozen since. I just returned my second, waiting to see what happens.
Vail and Southwestern RR wrote:Dang it! I wasn't clear. I sent back Big Power, and have gotten at least a half dozen since. I just returned my second, waiting to see what happens.
So! Maybe it's not "one strike and you're out" after all? That would be great if so!
Maybe "two strikes and you're out", aye Jeff?
jfugate wrote: Vail and Southwestern RR wrote: Dang it! I wasn't clear. I sent back Big Power, and have gotten at least a half dozen since. I just returned my second, waiting to see what happens.So! Maybe it's not "one strike and you're out" after all? That would be great if so!Maybe "two strikes and you're out", aye Jeff?
Vail and Southwestern RR wrote: Dang it! I wasn't clear. I sent back Big Power, and have gotten at least a half dozen since. I just returned my second, waiting to see what happens.
I half expect it, maybe more than half! That's ok, I'm looking for Live Ops #3, and SL #5 (when your wife is nicely mended!)