TA462 wrote: BRAKIE wrote: Dave Vollmer wrote: Pathfinder,My mistake... Sorry! But I do have to say there's a lot of animosity toward eBay out there. Yet it's been a Godsend for some of us. And for good reasons in many cases to include those pesty E-Bay phishing letters I get on a daily bases.Don't bother they been reported time and again and still they come.Why not just block the senders. You seem to get a lot of those letters for some reason. Is it a Hotmail account that you get them from? Hotmail is bad for spam letters.
BRAKIE wrote: Dave Vollmer wrote: Pathfinder,My mistake... Sorry! But I do have to say there's a lot of animosity toward eBay out there. Yet it's been a Godsend for some of us. And for good reasons in many cases to include those pesty E-Bay phishing letters I get on a daily bases.Don't bother they been reported time and again and still they come.
Dave Vollmer wrote: Pathfinder,My mistake... Sorry! But I do have to say there's a lot of animosity toward eBay out there. Yet it's been a Godsend for some of us.
Pathfinder,
My mistake... Sorry! But I do have to say there's a lot of animosity toward eBay out there. Yet it's been a Godsend for some of us.
And for good reasons in many cases to include those pesty E-Bay phishing letters I get on a daily bases.
Don't bother they been reported time and again and still they come.
Why not just block the senders. You seem to get a lot of those letters for some reason. Is it a Hotmail account that you get them from? Hotmail is bad for spam letters.
Dave Vollmer wrote: One Track Mind wrote: Dave Vollmer wrote: Pathfinder,My mistake... Sorry! But I do have to say there's a lot of animosity toward eBay out there. Yet it's been a Godsend for some of us.Just two weeks ago I got a brand-new Bachmann Spectrum 4-8-2 in N scale through an eBay store. MSRP? $175. What did I pay? $51. Beat that at your LHS! was it stolen? don't know for sure, do we? Jeez... I'm sure it wasn't stolen. The eBay store I bought it from is called The Favorite Spot. The have a huge stock, including multiples of the same item. 100% positive feedback too.I'm sorry I pressed you button with my LHS comment. I do support my LHS. But I just don't have a monster budget to pay MSRP on a locomotive I'm going to chop up and kitbash anyway.
One Track Mind wrote: Dave Vollmer wrote: Pathfinder,My mistake... Sorry! But I do have to say there's a lot of animosity toward eBay out there. Yet it's been a Godsend for some of us.Just two weeks ago I got a brand-new Bachmann Spectrum 4-8-2 in N scale through an eBay store. MSRP? $175. What did I pay? $51. Beat that at your LHS! was it stolen? don't know for sure, do we?
Dave Vollmer wrote: Pathfinder,My mistake... Sorry! But I do have to say there's a lot of animosity toward eBay out there. Yet it's been a Godsend for some of us.Just two weeks ago I got a brand-new Bachmann Spectrum 4-8-2 in N scale through an eBay store. MSRP? $175. What did I pay? $51. Beat that at your LHS!
Just two weeks ago I got a brand-new Bachmann Spectrum 4-8-2 in N scale through an eBay store. MSRP? $175. What did I pay? $51. Beat that at your LHS!
was it stolen? don't know for sure, do we?
Jeez... I'm sure it wasn't stolen. The eBay store I bought it from is called The Favorite Spot. The have a huge stock, including multiples of the same item. 100% positive feedback too.
I'm sorry I pressed you button with my LHS comment. I do support my LHS. But I just don't have a monster budget to pay MSRP on a locomotive I'm going to chop up and kitbash anyway.
While I am sure stolen trains show up on e-Bay just like train shows,I suspect 99% of the sellers is above board.
I only had one problem..A seller said he didn't get my payment..I ran a check of the USPS money order and found he did indeed cash the money order..I sent a copy of the front and back of the money order..He apologized for his oversight and sent me a extra car for the trouble and to cover the cost of the money order trace.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Actually I been using hot.com since 2001 and don't get that much regular spam because of the spam filter sitting..These spammers uses different addresses and E-Bay and Pay Pal are well known businesses and that's how they slide by the spam filters.
I've personally had two incidents of identity theft directly associated with sleaze-bay. It was a PITA to fix, and what little assistance ebay offered was through email only, no direct telephone communication and it was at their pace. No one seemed to really care about fixing my problem, much like dealing with a government agency. I cancelled my ebay and PayPal accounts and have been living happily without the stress of potentially being ripped off. Besides, for the type of stuff I buy, the ebay prices plus the inflated shipping usually amount to more than the price of a new item with warranty. But then, I've never been much on buying second hand merchandise. There are a lot of bargains online without having to resort to ebay.
If you have had good results with ebay and are content dealing there, good for you. I'm just not willing to risk another rip-off. I still chuckle when I get an email from PayPal saying my account has been restricted and they need info...
Yes, I had two "hijackings" of my account last year. eBay was very helpful about correcting it. The most I had to do was change my password. It hasn't happened in over a year.
Yeah, that does suck when it happens, but again, it's part of the risk-assessment you do whenever you chose to do something like this. To me, it's an acceptable risk given the benefits I've received (my wife and I both buy and sell things on eBay from time to time; it helped me get rid of my HO when I switched to N).
If you don't want to take that risk, I understand completely. But what I'm saying is that I do want to take that risk, and that no one is going to convince me otherwise. The only thing that would change my mind about eBay right now is if I get slammed hard by fraud. But I minimize that risk by dealing with reputable sellers and by setting bidding limits for myself.
Modeling the Rio Grande Southern First District circa 1938-1946 in HOn3.
Dave Vollmer wrote: Oh, fer cryin' out loud...I use eBay a lot and have never been burned. However, I'm willing to accept that risk. Were I to lose $100 on a locomotive because of fraud, you'd better believe I'd be upset, and that would kick my modeling budget back a long ways.But I would never buy a car on eBay. Somethin' about actually seeing it and test driving it first...Hmmm...Dave's gonna refer to himself in third person here for a moment. Dave uses eBay. Dave doesn't care if other people use or don't use eBay. Dave's a little tired of the eBay-haters trying to convince eBay-users that eBay is evil. Dave figures most people are smart enough to decide for themselves what degree of risk they're willing to accept. But then, Dave remebers the addage that "a fool and his money are soon parted." So, Dave says be like Dave and make informed eBay purchases, take acceptable risks, or don't use eBay. But don't try to convert the rest of us.Happy bidding!
Oh, fer cryin' out loud...
I use eBay a lot and have never been burned. However, I'm willing to accept that risk. Were I to lose $100 on a locomotive because of fraud, you'd better believe I'd be upset, and that would kick my modeling budget back a long ways.
But I would never buy a car on eBay. Somethin' about actually seeing it and test driving it first...
Hmmm...
Dave's gonna refer to himself in third person here for a moment. Dave uses eBay. Dave doesn't care if other people use or don't use eBay. Dave's a little tired of the eBay-haters trying to convince eBay-users that eBay is evil. Dave figures most people are smart enough to decide for themselves what degree of risk they're willing to accept. But then, Dave remebers the addage that "a fool and his money are soon parted." So, Dave says be like Dave and make informed eBay purchases, take acceptable risks, or don't use eBay. But don't try to convert the rest of us.
Happy bidding!
Well said, I am an Ebay user, there I said it, lets move on.
BRAKIE wrote: Phoebe Vet wrote: loathar wrote: Concretelacky- I love the E-mails I get tfrom E-Bay telling me my Pay Pal account is over drawn and I need to SEND MONEY NOW! (I don't have a Pay Pal account...) I get a lot of those from banks I've never banked at, too.What kind of idiot would respond to one of those? The same type of every day common people that get hook by scam artist or have their ID stolen.YOUR id could be stole as well.Then what type of idiot would you be?
Phoebe Vet wrote: loathar wrote: Concretelacky- I love the E-mails I get tfrom E-Bay telling me my Pay Pal account is over drawn and I need to SEND MONEY NOW! (I don't have a Pay Pal account...) I get a lot of those from banks I've never banked at, too.What kind of idiot would respond to one of those?
loathar wrote: Concretelacky- I love the E-mails I get tfrom E-Bay telling me my Pay Pal account is over drawn and I need to SEND MONEY NOW! (I don't have a Pay Pal account...)
Concretelacky- I love the E-mails I get tfrom E-Bay telling me my Pay Pal account is over drawn and I need to SEND MONEY NOW! (I don't have a Pay Pal account...)
I get a lot of those from banks I've never banked at, too.
What kind of idiot would respond to one of those?
The same type of every day common people that get hook by scam artist or have their ID stolen.
YOUR id could be stole as well.
Then what type of idiot would you be?
I'm sorry. Did I hit a nerve?
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
No.
Its just I hate scam artist that take advantage of good hard working people be it a garage scam to a phishing letter..
One doesn't need to be a idiot to be scammed just to dang trusting.
Thankfully I am one old street wise rooster..
Dave Vollmer wrote:Jeez... I'm sure it wasn't stolen. The eBay store I bought it from is called The Favorite Spot. The have a huge stock, including multiples of the same item. 100% positive feedback too.I'm sorry I pressed you button with my LHS comment. I do support my LHS. But I just don't have a monster budget to pay MSRP on a locomotive I'm going to chop up and kitbash anyway.
Ok... First... I buy a lot from Favorite Spot... they do good business, and treat the customer right.
Second, I support my LHS, but the three do little to support anyone but themselves. One sells items for more than I can get them from Walther. Another buys stuff at Hobby Lobby and resells it at a highter cost. The third one snipes a lot of stuff from ebay and resells it, a lot of it used at new stuff prices...
So do they mean suppoort or subsidize the LHS?
I am of two minds about this thread. On the one hand the "'caveat emptor" crowd is quite correct when they state that people who purchase high value items sight-unseen over the Internet bear a large degree of responsiblity when it turns out the sales are fraudulent or the items sold are not as advertised.
On the other hand, what are the Internet companies doing allowing these types of items to be posted for sale in the first place? They must realize the inherent possibility for fraud when they permit the listing of extremely expensive items. I mean the $20K we are talking about here is chump change. Coincidentially I came across an email at work today about a similar fraud, also committed through Ebay, one involing my own employer:
"Fraudulent Equipment Transactions Reported by JD Worldwide Security Recently a John Deere dealership in Kentucky was contacted by an individual who said he was interested in buying several pieces of equipment, including a John Deere 9660 STS Combine. This individual was successful in obtaining a photo and other information about the combine, including the VIN, during his conversations with the dealership. The individual then posted the photo and pertinent information on eBay and fraudulently offered the combine for auction. The dealership became aware of the auction, contacted eBay, and had the site shut down."
A combine like this is 10 times the value of the auto we were discussing, yet in so far as it appears E-bay treats this auction no differently than one from a person who is selling a few hundred dollars worth of golf clubs. Of course if the sale goes through, Ebay gets their cut, and they have a whole building full of lawyers to argue that they are not responsible for the actions of people who use their service for illegal transactions, even though they exist soley to facilitate that transaction. So much for social responsibility.
Climbing down off of the soapbox now...
I have figured out what is wrong with my brain! On the left side nothing works right, and on the right side there is nothing left!
Stebby:
I agree with your feelings, but surely you must realize that it is not possible for E-Bay to verify the authenticity of every item offered for sale.
Anyone who would complete such a transaction with even a local person without verifying that the seller in fact owns the item is just asking for trouble.
Would you buy a house without doing a title search? Would you buy a car from someone who asked for the money but was going to provide title at some later date? Maybe it's a rental, or stolen, or even just borrowed.
Most scams are greed based and don't even make sense. You have to wonder about someone who actually believes that he has won a lottery that he didn't enter, or that a member of the Nigerian Royal Family has reached out to him to help them smuggle 27 million dollars out of the country. What would make anyone respond to an e-mail from E-bay, or a bank asking them to enter all their account information for verification? Does that really sound like something someone who already has that information would do?
That said, the most common theft of your personal information is from your own US Mailbox. And the second is by an employee of a vendor with whom you legitimately do business. Think about that when you give your credit card information to Walthers over the phone next time. You have just divulged everything a new unscrupulous Walthers employee needs to buy stuff elsewhere with your credit card. You would not know until next time your credit card statement came, and by that time, that person might not work at Walthers anymore.
There is risk in all things, but most people are basicaly honest, so be brave and live life. Don't do stupid things, but don't drive yourself crazy trying to eliminate all risk of everything. Life's too short for that kind of paranoia.
One Track Mind wrote: Dave Vollmer wrote: One Track Mind wrote: Dave Vollmer wrote: Pathfinder,My mistake... Sorry! But I do have to say there's a lot of animosity toward eBay out there. Yet it's been a Godsend for some of us.Just two weeks ago I got a brand-new Bachmann Spectrum 4-8-2 in N scale through an eBay store. MSRP? $175. What did I pay? $51. Beat that at your LHS! was it stolen? don't know for sure, do we? Jeez... I'm sure it wasn't stolen. The eBay store I bought it from is called The Favorite Spot. The have a huge stock, including multiples of the same item. 100% positive feedback too.I'm sorry I pressed you button with my LHS comment. I do support my LHS. But I just don't have a monster budget to pay MSRP on a locomotive I'm going to chop up and kitbash anyway. Dave: no problem here, no apology necessary. I broke my own rule about responding to something without thinking it through for about 30 minutes first.Having giving it some thought, I offer three things that might explain why I did the Quick-draw McGraw post:1. I should have saved the article, but did not...in our paper 2 or 3 years ago was an item where a theft ring was broken up. The criminals were breaking into container cars and stealing the normal stuff...TVs, stereo stuff, sneakers.... and model railroad equipment. This happened either in or near Philadelphia, where Bachmann is located.Obviously this doesn't mean that a lot of Bachmann items on eBay are stolen... perhaps none are... but we do know that stolen items are fenced on eBay. Sometimes 2 and 2 adds up to 4.2. About a year ago, a customer asked why the Bachmann On30 item he ordered from me had not arrived yet, when it was already on eBay for less than my cost one month before it was released to hobby shops. Legitimate question for sure. When I asked how this could happen, no one can give me a straight answer.3. Here we have your example of a dealer selling a locomotive for far less than cost. They sold it for less than the distributor's cost, as I understand things. While I can comprehend the idea of ridding one's shop of items that are not selling... I really don't understand why anyone would sell something this cheap on eBay. Shooting yourself in the foot (in the long run) is the phrase that comes to mind.Hopefully I don't come across in an accusatory manner. Not my intention. And I don't hate eBay, I've purchased many items over the years, mostly with good results.
Dave: no problem here, no apology necessary. I broke my own rule about responding to something without thinking it through for about 30 minutes first.
Having giving it some thought, I offer three things that might explain why I did the Quick-draw McGraw post:
1. I should have saved the article, but did not...in our paper 2 or 3 years ago was an item where a theft ring was broken up. The criminals were breaking into container cars and stealing the normal stuff...TVs, stereo stuff, sneakers.... and model railroad equipment. This happened either in or near Philadelphia, where Bachmann is located.
Obviously this doesn't mean that a lot of Bachmann items on eBay are stolen... perhaps none are... but we do know that stolen items are fenced on eBay. Sometimes 2 and 2 adds up to 4.
2. About a year ago, a customer asked why the Bachmann On30 item he ordered from me had not arrived yet, when it was already on eBay for less than my cost one month before it was released to hobby shops. Legitimate question for sure. When I asked how this could happen, no one can give me a straight answer.
3. Here we have your example of a dealer selling a locomotive for far less than cost. They sold it for less than the distributor's cost, as I understand things. While I can comprehend the idea of ridding one's shop of items that are not selling... I really don't understand why anyone would sell something this cheap on eBay. Shooting yourself in the foot (in the long run) is the phrase that comes to mind.
Hopefully I don't come across in an accusatory manner. Not my intention. And I don't hate eBay, I've purchased many items over the years, mostly with good results.
Phoebe Vet wrote: Anyone who would complete such a transaction with even a local person without verifying that the seller in fact owns the item is just asking for trouble. Most scams are greed based and don't even make sense. You have to wonder about someone who actually believes that he has won a lottery that he didn't enter, or that a member of the Nigerian Royal Family has reached out to him to help them smuggle 27 million dollars out of the country. What would make anyone respond to an e-mail from E-bay, or a bank asking them to enter all their account information for verification? Does that really sound like something someone who already has that information would do?
The phishing letters from e-Bay and Pay Pal looks like the real McCoy and advises you that your account need updated etc..Very convincing to the expecting new e-bayer or the gullible..
-----------------
----------------
Exactly how are you planing on getting that proof of ownership when the Police has a rough time?
How many people actually keep sales receipts?
Good advice for a perfect world..Trouble is the world in which we live isn't perfect.
rrebell wrote: One Track Mind wrote: Dave Vollmer wrote: One Track Mind wrote: Dave Vollmer wrote: Pathfinder,My mistake... Sorry! But I do have to say there's a lot of animosity toward eBay out there. Yet it's been a Godsend for some of us.Just two weeks ago I got a brand-new Bachmann Spectrum 4-8-2 in N scale through an eBay store. MSRP? $175. What did I pay? $51. Beat that at your LHS! was it stolen? don't know for sure, do we? Jeez... I'm sure it wasn't stolen. The eBay store I bought it from is called The Favorite Spot. The have a huge stock, including multiples of the same item. 100% positive feedback too.I'm sorry I pressed you button with my LHS comment. I do support my LHS. But I just don't have a monster budget to pay MSRP on a locomotive I'm going to chop up and kitbash anyway. Dave: no problem here, no apology necessary. I broke my own rule about responding to something without thinking it through for about 30 minutes first.Having giving it some thought, I offer three things that might explain why I did the Quick-draw McGraw post:1. I should have saved the article, but did not...in our paper 2 or 3 years ago was an item where a theft ring was broken up. The criminals were breaking into container cars and stealing the normal stuff...TVs, stereo stuff, sneakers.... and model railroad equipment. This happened either in or near Philadelphia, where Bachmann is located.Obviously this doesn't mean that a lot of Bachmann items on eBay are stolen... perhaps none are... but we do know that stolen items are fenced on eBay. Sometimes 2 and 2 adds up to 4.2. About a year ago, a customer asked why the Bachmann On30 item he ordered from me had not arrived yet, when it was already on eBay for less than my cost one month before it was released to hobby shops. Legitimate question for sure. When I asked how this could happen, no one can give me a straight answer.3. Here we have your example of a dealer selling a locomotive for far less than cost. They sold it for less than the distributor's cost, as I understand things. While I can comprehend the idea of ridding one's shop of items that are not selling... I really don't understand why anyone would sell something this cheap on eBay. Shooting yourself in the foot (in the long run) is the phrase that comes to mind.Hopefully I don't come across in an accusatory manner. Not my intention. And I don't hate eBay, I've purchased many items over the years, mostly with good results. Below cost to who, If you got enough money and are willing to place a big enough order you can get most items out of china real cheap. Once looked into dealing directly with bachmann and many moons ago you started getting a deal at around $10,000.00, proubly alot more now!!!!!!
Kind of proving one of my last points. It is true that there are "back door deals" in this business.
And I'm certainly don't have the money it takes for those direct transactions.
But if you are able to sell a new locomotive for 30 cents on the dollar, as in this case (and presumably still make money on the transaction or why else would you sell it) then you must have bought it for 15 or 20 cents on the dollar or less... then to me we are getting into the area of unethical business practices if Bachmann still expects real stores to list them at 175.
OTOH, if a dealer is selling a locomotive on eBay for 51.00 and he paid 70.00 cost for it, that doesn't seem very smart...either in the short run or the long run.
So either it's close to unethical, or stupid. One or the other.
I think the example of what happened with Proto 2000 is all the needs to be mentioned to prove what is likely going to happen with Bachmann eventually.
Doesn't matter to me one way or the other - I wised up and quit selling Bachmann locomotives long ago. Can't compete with 70% off and I'm not losing any sleep over it.
As a fellow modeler I'm sincerely happy to see you savvy guys getting good deals while you can.
One Track,
Usually I'm all-aboard with you on most points. And yes, I did take pause at your suggestion I might have purchased a stolen engine... I take my integrity to heart as an military officer and because of my religious beliefs, so I can assure you if I had reason to suspect the seller had ill-gotten the loco, I would not have bid.
Micro-Mark sells these same engines for under $70, BTW. So winning one via bidding for $51 didn't seem so horribly unethical.
But, as much as I love and support my LHS no matter where I'm stationed in this great nation, my hobby is not a charity. I feel for you and can only imagine how difficult it must be to compete with eBay, the large model railroad clearing houses, the online deals, etc. However, I'm not happy about being implicated as supporting shady business practices.
If you feel The Favorite Spot is doing something unethical, shoot them an e-mail.
Some folks have the disposable cash to walk into their hobby shop in plunk down MSRP for a loco. I wish I did too. But I don't.
That's not what I meant...
I have nothing against The Favorite Spot, more power to them.
I have nothing against you guys snapping up the good deals.
I don't think I implied that either the Favorite Spot, you (Dave) or eBay was doing anything unethical...if I did imply that, I apologize.
I did say that if Bachmann expects me to pay for their products based on the 175.00 MSRP and then they make these other deals, that's when I said "that was close to being unethical."
I wouldn't have used the term "bickering", but perhaps you are used to a different venue where open debate is discouraged and agreement is encouraged, Cantrell? To me, bickering is a term used when there is testiness and bitterness, and no room for common ground standing. I haven't seen that development in this thread. I see good will between these two gentlemen, and a desire to find understanding and agreement...but it is a voluntary and an evolutionary process that is not helped by comments that are disparaging of the process and its intent.
To those debating the relative costs of items won on auction sites, we all know that some of the items are merely cost recovery items where cash flow is needed, even if there is a loss on the product. It seems to me that some hobby houses may be wanting to bring in stock that they must pay for sooner rather than later, and stock on which their intuitions or business customers suggest will move better over the looming holidays. Short term pain for long term gain?
One Track Mind wrote: That's not what I meant...I have nothing against The Favorite Spot, more power to them.I have nothing against you guys snapping up the good deals.I don't think I implied that either the Favorite Spot, you (Dave) or eBay was doing anything unethical...if I did imply that, I apologize.I did say that if Bachmann expects me to pay for their products based on the 175.00 MSRP and then they make these other deals, that's when I said "that was close to being unethical."
Sorry, One Track... I read it that you were calling The Favorite Spot "stupid or unethical." Now that I read it again, I get what you're saying.
Sorry for being defensive. It's been one of those weeks...
I really don't know how or why they can sell this engine for $51. I can say, however, as nice as it looks, it took me 90 minutes of tinkering with the bearing blocks on the traction tire driver, unbinding the running gear (the crossheads don't stay on the guides very well), and lining up the counterweights of the drivers one each side (they may also be a hair out of quarter) so that she would stay on the rails and pull more than just her tender.
That's not $175 worth of quality. In reality, it really is worth about $50, given the amount of tinkering needed.
Maybe Bachmann is being unethical; it probably costs them pocket change to get made in China. We all know how ethical Chinese toy factories are!!!
Railroadrunner wrote:Wow Has anyone else noticed that this topic has turned into a certified girly bickering fest? Some of you people can just find anything to bicker over huh. Shame
Now, I know better than to reply, but...
Girly, huh?
Wow.
Seriously, I would offer up that as a relative newcomer to this forum you may wish to be a little more kind, especially with people you obviously don't know personally. Just a minor suggestion. You may take it or leave it.
There is also the option of not replying if you feel a thread has gone astray.
Hmm, I was thinking something along those lines too...but I hesitated to jump into the fray and invite a bunch of flames in return...it never ceases to amaze me though, how some threads evolve from what the initiator of the thread intended...to warn of a scam on eBay, to a bit of a bashing session that seems to have taken on a personal attack theme.
Oh well I'm off to check the auctions I have bids on and to browse for more great deals on eBay.
As for the LHS...I will continue to buy roadbed locally but the prices offered online make the LHS look like highwaymen, (MY OPINION). The only thing missing is the bandana over the face.
BlueHillsCPR wrote: Railroadrunner wrote:Wow Has anyone else noticed that this topic has turned into a certified girly bickering fest? Some of you people can just find anything to bicker over huh. Shame Hmm, I was thinking something along those lines too...but I hesitated to jump into the fray and invite a bunch of flames in return...it never ceases to amaze me though, how some threads evolve from what the initiator of the thread intended...to warn of a scam on eBay, to a bit of a bashing session that seems to have taken on a personal attack theme.Oh well I'm off to check the auctions I have bids on and to browse for more great deals on eBay.As for the LHS...I will continue to buy roadbed locally but the prices offered online make the LHS look like highwaymen, (MY OPINION). The only thing missing is the bandana over the face.
So you agree too. Usually what happens is when two people start opposing a staement the rest follow suit. Thats is always the case anywhere there is a crowd. No one wants to be on the opposite side of the mob or in this case click.
Railroadrunner wrote: BlueHillsCPR wrote: Railroadrunner wrote:Wow Has anyone else noticed that this topic has turned into a certified girly bickering fest? Some of you people can just find anything to bicker over huh. Shame Hmm, I was thinking something along those lines too...but I hesitated to jump into the fray and invite a bunch of flames in return...it never ceases to amaze me though, how some threads evolve from what the initiator of the thread intended...to warn of a scam on eBay, to a bit of a bashing session that seems to have taken on a personal attack theme.Oh well I'm off to check the auctions I have bids on and to browse for more great deals on eBay.As for the LHS...I will continue to buy roadbed locally but the prices offered online make the LHS look like highwaymen, (MY OPINION). The only thing missing is the bandana over the face. So you agree too. Usually what happens is when two people start opposing a staement the rest follow suit. Thats is always the case anywhere there is a crowd. No one wants to be on the opposite side of the mob or in this case click.
Whoa there now. Don't go thinkin you have a following or the start of a club or some such... What I was thinking...when i said..."along those lines" is that there sure were a lot of heated posts over a simple scam warning...the whole topic disintegrated from what it was to what it is and it all seems like so much nonsense over nothing...
I don't recall favoring or opposing any statements...and while I quoted your post I did not precisely agree with what you said word for word. That's why I sai I was thinking along those lines...rather than saying I agreed withwhat you posted.
In reference to highly "discounted" prices from a dealer vs. manufacturer pricing. Locally there is a concrete facility that produces a HUGH volume of concrete (cinder) block. They have a patent on a retaining wall block that has assorted profiles for the exposed face but all have a lip on the back side that locks on to the previous layer. They produce it, package it and ship it to various dealers. They also openly admit that if you are getting less than a tractor trailer load quanity of the same size and color block it is much cheaper to buy from a dealer. I know several people that have bought thru a dealer at 20-40% less than buying direct.
The reason is simple, this manufacturer is set up for volume sales, not for "I need 50 of this size and 20 of that color". The dealers on the other hand (most being greenhouse/ landscaping supply centers) cater to that style of buyer. They also combine their buying power and order a full load but have it split at 2 or 3 locations.
One Track Mind wrote: rrebell wrote: One Track Mind wrote: Dave Vollmer wrote: One Track Mind wrote: Dave Vollmer wrote: Pathfinder,My mistake... Sorry! But I do have to say there's a lot of animosity toward eBay out there. Yet it's been a Godsend for some of us.Just two weeks ago I got a brand-new Bachmann Spectrum 4-8-2 in N scale through an eBay store. MSRP? $175. What did I pay? $51. Beat that at your LHS! was it stolen? don't know for sure, do we? Jeez... I'm sure it wasn't stolen. The eBay store I bought it from is called The Favorite Spot. The have a huge stock, including multiples of the same item. 100% positive feedback too.I'm sorry I pressed you button with my LHS comment. I do support my LHS. But I just don't have a monster budget to pay MSRP on a locomotive I'm going to chop up and kitbash anyway. Dave: no problem here, no apology necessary. I broke my own rule about responding to something without thinking it through for about 30 minutes first.Having giving it some thought, I offer three things that might explain why I did the Quick-draw McGraw post:1. I should have saved the article, but did not...in our paper 2 or 3 years ago was an item where a theft ring was broken up. The criminals were breaking into container cars and stealing the normal stuff...TVs, stereo stuff, sneakers.... and model railroad equipment. This happened either in or near Philadelphia, where Bachmann is located.Obviously this doesn't mean that a lot of Bachmann items on eBay are stolen... perhaps none are... but we do know that stolen items are fenced on eBay. Sometimes 2 and 2 adds up to 4.2. About a year ago, a customer asked why the Bachmann On30 item he ordered from me had not arrived yet, when it was already on eBay for less than my cost one month before it was released to hobby shops. Legitimate question for sure. When I asked how this could happen, no one can give me a straight answer.3. Here we have your example of a dealer selling a locomotive for far less than cost. They sold it for less than the distributor's cost, as I understand things. While I can comprehend the idea of ridding one's shop of items that are not selling... I really don't understand why anyone would sell something this cheap on eBay. Shooting yourself in the foot (in the long run) is the phrase that comes to mind.Hopefully I don't come across in an accusatory manner. Not my intention. And I don't hate eBay, I've purchased many items over the years, mostly with good results. Below cost to who, If you got enough money and are willing to place a big enough order you can get most items out of china real cheap. Once looked into dealing directly with bachmann and many moons ago you started getting a deal at around $10,000.00, proubly alot more now!!!!!! Kind of proving one of my last points. It is true that there are "back door deals" in this business. And I'm certainly don't have the money it takes for those direct transactions.But if you are able to sell a new locomotive for 30 cents on the dollar, as in this case (and presumably still make money on the transaction or why else would you sell it) then you must have bought it for 15 or 20 cents on the dollar or less... then to me we are getting into the area of unethical business practices if Bachmann still expects real stores to list them at 175.OTOH, if a dealer is selling a locomotive on eBay for 51.00 and he paid 70.00 cost for it, that doesn't seem very smart...either in the short run or the long run.So either it's close to unethical, or stupid. One or the other.I think the example of what happened with Proto 2000 is all the needs to be mentioned to prove what is likely going to happen with Bachmann eventually. Doesn't matter to me one way or the other - I wised up and quit selling Bachmann locomotives long ago. Can't compete with 70% off and I'm not losing any sleep over it.As a fellow modeler I'm sincerely happy to see you savvy guys getting good deals while you can.
I have used e-bay and other than the mistake of not checking on the shipping method from the US to Canada (Couriers with their high surcharges - vs regular USPS Air)
I have only had one problem transaction. I purchased a somewhat rare Intermountain Yellow Bonnet F set advertised as like new. The units ran like percision clockwork, problem was the previous owners must have been running the set with another unit and had taken out the circuit board as well as the rest of the lighting for the headlight. Numberboards were there only missing the headlight.
The seller was unaware of this and when I complained they more or less said too bad, so sad... as did E-Bay as well. I later contact Intermountain who immediately sent me out a circuit board and lights.
So, was happy in the end, I would still check the obvious when dealing with E-Bay and only use PayPal in case the items went missing.
Dave Vollmer wrote:Pathfinder,My mistake... Sorry! But I do have to say there's a lot of animosity toward eBay out there. Yet it's been a Godsend for some of us.Just two weeks ago I got a brand-new Bachmann Spectrum 4-8-2 in N scale through an eBay store. MSRP? $175. What did I pay? $51. Beat that at your LHS!
That is if your even lucky enough to have a LHS that is close enough to readily access whenever you wish or need. Personally I've bought everything from clothing to two motor vehicles on ebay and quite a lot of model railroad items. But in saying so, one must be aware of the value of items. For just as often there are other sources on the internet that are as cheap or cheaper, or may offer additionals. its all a matter of choice, ebay is just another choice.