Tsunami

[dave9999]

Does anyone know when Sountraxx will release the Tsunami decoders??
Tony"s says December 2003 but they still show them as unavailable. I've gone so
far as to Email Soundtraxx but haven't gotten a response.My Allegheny's ready to make some noise!! Dave

[Anonymous]

*Drools and waits patiently for the answer*

Jay

[dragenrider]

I'm eagerly waiting, too. [:p] I've even delayed my step into DCC to see what the Soundtraxx product will do. [^][^]

[dave9999]

Anyone???

[dave9999]

Antonio,
This is the first I've heard about this. Does this effect all DCC decoders or just sound decoders? Tony's
Train Exchange shows the Soundtraxx DSD decoders as discontinued. Is this also true?
The Tsunami was to take their place.
If so, what do we do for sound? Buy MRC sound decoders? Yeah right. Keep us informed if you hear anything else. Thanks Dave

[dave9999]

Again, Thanks for the info. Hopefully everyone will get it together and we'll have our Tsunami's soon enough.
Dave

[Anonymous]

Hmm..Dave's got a new logo in his sig, new line of his railroad? the Gator Express Line, taking gators to the boot factory to make Gator Skin Boots!

Jay

[dave9999]

QUOTE: Originally posted by NTDN

Hmm..Dave's got a new logo in his sig, new line of his railroad? the Gator Express Line, taking gators to the boot factory to make Gator Skin Boots!

Jay

Not a big Gator fan, huh? Dave

[AntonioFP45]

Hi Dave, NTDN and everyone interested in DCC/Sound.
The following letter I received from Litchfield Station owner Bruce, addressing the delays of the TSUNAMI decoder, the threatened litigation from MIke's Train House, and the effects of this on DCC as a whole: [:(!]It is a little frustrating, but don't give up. [8D] It's worth the wait!
[From Bruce at Litchfield Station
Here's the status: I was talking to Nancy at Soundtraxx 10 days ago and she said that there is no real news.
I have no quarrel with anybody protecting what they invent. As an engineer, I have a MAJOR hack with mincing words to try to patent something which somebody else created and brought to commercial practice years before. What that means to me is: MTH has issued a "cease and desist" letter to and has sued QSI. QSI has disabled BEMF(back emf) motor control in systems they are shipping. MTH has sent registered letters to Sountraxx, Digitrax, etc. with copies of their patents and a statement that MTH has "no interest" in licensing the patented technology."

No existing Soundtraxx products are impacted, but the Tsunami as shown in September and Surroundtraxx would infringe on the patent as issued.

What I believe the folks at Soundtraxx are doing (and this is just a guess on my part) is working (I believe, in concert with others in the DCC world) with the lawyers trying to iron out what portions of the patent are defensible and what were in the public domain as a result of prior art. As I understand it, Soundtraxx could have shipped Tsunami in December, as promised, by disabling the BEMF motor control, like QSI has done. They (Soundtraxx) have taken a hit in their pocketbook to provide the best product they can design with the current level of hardware technology. I APPLAUD that as loudly as I BOO MTH!
The Bi-Directional communications portion of the patent, if upheld, could have a major impact on Digitrax' Transponding, the NMRA standard, Surroundtraxx and Lenz in the USA.

NCE's take on this is interesting: Jim has a modification for the Powerhouse Pro system to access F13 and F14 (used by the Tsunami) and can put it into production (and retrofit ProCabs) at any time. He also had a "heads up" and held back on BEMF decoders knowing this was coming. He also has modifications for his systems which will support the NMRA Bi-directional communication standard when that gets ironed out. Also, he might bow to what AJ has asked and support Digitrax Transponding, as Jim contends that both systems can be functional at the same time!

I presume you are one of the about 350 members on my newsletter group> I'll post any real news there as I get it! If not, send a blank e-mail to: [e-mail]

I have many thousands of dollars worth of Tsunamis and almost as much installation business held up on this.

My mantra: DBFM - Don't buy from Mike!
Thanks for supporting my little enterprise.
Bruce Pertrarca
www.LitchfieldStation.com Arizona,USA
Authorized dealer for Digitrax, Lenz,NCE, Soundtraxx, and TCS.
Your DCC installed here![/b]

[:D]You can see why I prefer Litchfield over Tony's Train Xchangewhen it comes to finding out about the latest DCC info! I know one thing, I sure won't recommend MTH to anyone. [:0]If MTH's claim is legitimate then he must be given due process, but if it's found that he's not,[#dots] I would encourage others not to support Mike's Train House . [V]Word of mouth and our wallets are just as strong as sledge hammers on bricks! - This whole situation is definetly making an impact on our hobby . Hoping this all pans out - AFP45!

[dave9999]

Thanks again for the heads up. The BEMF feature I could live without( lived without it this
long). Though I understand that the performance factor is substantial with BEMF.
So, just to make sure I have it straight, Soundtraxx still can ship the decoders by
disabling the BEMF? But they want to see how this plays out first? Correct?? There's
always a fly in the ointment. Dave

[Anonymous]

Get this.

I got a Broadway Limited 2-8-2 and THEY had to take out features because of Mikes Train House!

I don't know.......but I can imagine once they figure out what MTH is trying to 'patent' they will stap a counter suit on him......and he will be out of business!

(Can ya tell I'm a little pissed on this subject!)

[AntonioFP45]

Dave,

From what Bruce says, yes Soundtraxx could ship the Tsunami decoders without the BEMFbut one must consider that they really take pride in their product. Soundtraxx wants their decoders to work for customers the way they were designed with ALL FEATURES. This is why I'm willing to wait.

Can you imagine buying a brand new $50,000 Corvette and then have the dealer tell you "Sorry, we can't give you the six speed transmission but the 3 speed will work adequatly!"

I must admit that I've criticized Soundtraxx in the past because of their "one sentence" answers to e-mail inquires or at times no answers at all. But I salute Soundtraxx's managers for preferring to stick it out until a resolution occurs one way or the other. This is by no means knocking Broadway Limited. Broadway uses the QSI system, which was torpedoed by the cease and desist order. BLI likely had no choice in this situation, but to disable the features as ordered.

[Big_Boy_4005]

I have ignored this topic for a while now, not knowing what a Tsunami was in model railroading terms ( in Japaneese, its a tidal wave). Now that I have read it, I find it very interesting, not that I have any use for the product, but because I have some similar feelings about MTH.

I am a 3rail O modeler, and have heard mention of legal action being taken with regard to MTH and DCC, but nobody on that side of the tracks knew the details. This explains alot.

My gripe with MTH is really at the root of your gripe with MTH. Lionel developed their TMCC system years before Mike patented his DCS system. The way I see it, if Mike had acccepted Lionel licensing terms in the first place, none of this would be happening. I don't know if Mike was already in the process of developing DCS when Lionel made the TMCC license available, but either way, the DCS system has been the source of a great deal of contraversy in the 3 rail world, and now it has spilled over to the 2 rail world.

[dave9999]

QUOTE: Originally posted by AntonioFP45

Dave,

From what Bruce says, yes Soundtraxx could ship the Tsunami decoders without the BEMFbut one must consider that they really take pride in their product. Soundtraxx wants their decoders to work for customers the way they were designed with ALL FEATURES. This is why I'm willing to wait.

Can you imagine buying a brand new $50,000 Corvette and then have the dealer tell you "Sorry, we can't give you the six speed transmission but the 3 speed will work adequatly!"

I must admit that I've criticized Soundtraxx in the past because of their "one sentence" answers to e-mail inquires or at times no answers at all. But I salute Soundtraxx's managers for preferring to stick it out until a resolution occurs one way or the other. This is by no means knocking Broadway Limited. Broadway uses the QSI system, which was torpedoed by the cease and desist order. BLI likely had no choice in this situation, but to disable the features as ordered.

Antonio,
I am more than willing to wait. My comment about the fly in the ointment was
directed at MTH not Soundtraxx.
My problem is Soundtraxx not posting any info on their site and not responding to email. I have bought many Soundtraxx decoders, and I know that my business will not make or break Soundtraxx. But as a consumer, I think that I am entitled
to an explaination. Had it not been for outside information (you and other websites) we would all still be wondering when the Tsunami could be expected
to ship. Oh wait, we are still wondering!!
Dave

[AntonioFP45]

Dave, you're absolutely correct!

If you read my statement, Soundtraxx is not very good about answering e-mail. Do they get too many e-mails and have limited time and personnel to answer or is it just apathy? I realize some questions & suggestions may be viewed by them as in the "goofy" or "electronically challenged" category. I ask a lot of questions because I'm not keen on electronics. Soundtraxx's silence isn't good PR at all, even though their high quality decoders and related products sell well.

As far as public relations, I've compared them before to Digitrax. Digitraxx is very good about answering e-mails. Sometimes it takes longer than a week but they do answer. That to me is respect and their willingness to show courtesy to a potential customer! This is one of the reasons why I'm purchasing Digitrax's DCC system with my hard earned money, even though Lenz is just as good.

I will still purchase Soundtraxx decoders because simply put, they're the best. Recently I found out from a reliable vendor that at least two DCC manufacturers are developing sound decoders, one of them high end like Soundtraxx. I'm looking forward to it!

[dave9999]

I finally recieved a reply to my email to Soundtraxx from Jan. 7.


Sorry for delay in answering. Our email server had to be replaced and some of our mail was temporarily lost.
We do not have a ship date at this time
for Tsunami.
While the development is nearing completion, at this point it
is difficult to determine how long the final aspects of its development
will take. The website will be updated when this development is complete.

SoundTraxx Customer Service
210 Rock Point Drive
Durango, CO 81301
[phone] ext. 11
fax [phone]

Even though they did not include any comments about the legal actions of MTH,
I am glad at least they replied. Pretty vague though, dont ya think? Dave

[AntonioFP45]

Wow!

Hard to believe that's been over a year since the above posts! Many of us are still waiting.
Last estimate I read was in the Spring of this year. Soundtraxx had a few problems with vendors which were finally worked out. Then they were working out a few minor "kinks" with the decoder. They could have released it earlier but again, they're trying to get it right since QSI has set the standard that many of us have grown accustomed to hearing in the Broadway Limited locomotives.

Soundtraxx's owners, the Workmans, want to make sure that the Tsunami decoder will be a satisfying hit with modelers and not a lot of "hype" since, let's face it, HO and N modelers are a tough audience and are notorious for slamming products that don't cut the mustard! (Wow! What a bunch of grumps! And I'm one of them! I still remember those poor BLI managers were sweating bullets their first year on the market! )

I'm really looking forward to the "Reverb" feature.

In the meantime I will be taking a friends's advice that I passed on to BNSF, and study the DCC information as well as install a few motor decoders from Digitrax and TCS in some of my locomotives. Plus, I still have Athearn U-Boats and Cowls that need "See Thru" grills installed.

Peace and Cheers![;)]

[jrbernier]

From my conversations with Soundtraxx at shows, the MTH situation was not the big 'fly in the ointment' - There were vendor issues. The can allways 'disable' the BEMF function and enable it later.
What really gripes me is that the US Patent Dept gave out this 'patent', and also have a registered patent with Digitrax for the 'transponding/communications' feature. This shows how little research the government is doing before awarding this stuff!
Another 'patent' is the Centerline track cleaning car. Aztec has had the same 'skewed' wheel arrangement for years. Centerline does not sue Aztec over this, so I suspect they realize that the patent is not defensable and choose to ignore the Aztec product!

Jim Bernier

[Anonymous]

Good Evening:

I talked to Soundtraxx this afternoon and was informed that it'll go into production at the end of this month, with testing the early part of Feb. They now have all of the parts in stock. Then Nancy will post what and when everything will be comming out.

They haven't decided if they are going to up-scale the DSX.

Bob

[AntonioFP45]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TEFFY

Good Evening:

I talked to Soundtraxx this afternoon and was informed that it'll go into production at the end of this month, with testing the early part of Feb. They now have all of the parts in stock. Then Nancy will post what and when everything will be coming out.

They haven't decided if they are going to up-scale the DSX.

Bob

Bob (Teffy) This is wonderful news!! So looks like it's definitly on for this coming Spring! Hopefully the testing process will be a success. The timing is not bad since "rumor" has it that LifeLike will be making a QSI diesel sound unit available in the not too distant future (though I'll believe it when I see it).

I wonder though. Remember the controversial "Back EMF feature that was a part of the MTH controversy? Hopefully the Tsunami decoder will come with it "activated". While most of us could probably live with out it, for the price that this decoder is costing it should include all the "bells and whistles!" ([;)]pun intended!)

I'm looking forward to hearing EMD turbo chargers "whining" from my FP45s, eventually!

[Anonymous]

I, too, am waiting for the Tsunami product - and have been... for a while. I'm willing to wait a little bit longer to make sure that a) there are no legal problems for Soundtraxx and b) the product they release is truly an exceptional product.

When they're ready to sell, I'll be looking into buying.

Rob

[AntonioFP45]

Oh, forgot to mention.

I just realized that I have two dummy units. An extra FP45 and a P2K E7B. Good candidates for the DSX decoder. Would be nice if Soundtraxx did update the DSX, however, I hope that the updating does not cause a "hefty" price increase!

[:O][8D]

[dave9999]

QUOTE: Originally posted by AntonioFP45

QUOTE: Originally posted by TEFFY

Good Evening:

I talked to Soundtraxx this afternoon and was informed that it'll go into production at the end of this month, with testing the early part of Feb. They now have all of the parts in stock. Then Nancy will post what and when everything will be coming out.

They haven't decided if they are going to up-scale the DSX.

Bob

Bob (Teffy) This is wonderful news!! So looks like it's definitly on for this coming Spring! Hopefully the testing process will be a success. The timing is not bad since "rumor" has it that LifeLike will be making a QSI diesel sound unit available in the not too distant future (though I'll believe it when I see it).

I wonder though. Remember the controversial "Back EMF feature that was a part of the MTH controversy? Hopefully the Tsunami decoder will come with it "activated". While most of us could probably live with out it, for the price that this decoder is costing it should include all the "bells and whistles!" ([;)]pun intended!)

I'm looking forward to hearing EMD turbo chargers "whining" from my FP45s, eventually!

Antonio,
Thanks for dusting off this old topic.
I think you missed something BIG... LifeLike already has Diesel locos on
the market with QSI sound. They have the E6 and the GP9 on the shelves
as we speak. I was looking at a L&N E6 last Saturday at the LHS. Dave

Edit: They also have the U28 with DCC and sound expected 05/05.

[Anonymous]

Guys,

The buzz floating around the narrow guage convention last summer and on other forums is that there were/are issues with defective parts and gliches in the software in addition to any issues with BEMF...In other words: It wasn't ready.

As to BEMF and Mike's trainhouse, I strongly recommend you look up one of the most viewed threads in MR forum histroy in which Mikes Trainhouse rep addresses a lot of these issues...(watch out for the war to start again).

http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=21838

BTW: I sorely miss bemf. For reliable slow speed running it can't be beat....

I may have stirred up enough mayhem for this evening, out to the train room...

[AntonioFP45]

Hello Dave9999,

Good to see your posts!

BTW: I knew about the Proto and Atlas units with sound. I was referring to Proto/QSI willing to make the "Sound Unit" ( the one for the GP9) by itself available! So modelers can install this on other locomotives. I do hope I didn't misunderstand the person that posted that info, however, if this were true then Soundtraxx would indeed be getting some "healthy" competition on their own turf as far as sound for EMD 567s.

QSI makes some very "sweet sounding" units,but of course for HO they've only been available "already intsalled in BLI, Proto, and Atlas locomotives.

As a good friend of mine in the computer industry is predicting, DCC and Sound will become the expected "norm" in the next 5 years just as KD couplers did in the 80s and Code 83 rail in the 90s.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by AntonioFP45

Hello Dave9999, ....As a good friend of mine in the computer industry is predicting, DCC and Sound will become the expected "norm" in the next 5 years just as KD couplers did in the 80s and Code 83 rail in the 90s......

I think that DCC is the norm now. Look at how much of it is around. Even the biggest transformer manfacturer (MRC) has now gone to DCC.

Bob

[Anonymous]

There is rumor that both BLI and LiFE LIKE will be releasing add on sound before the end of the year.Qsi is rumored to be developing a user friendly uploadable sound decoder to allow custom sounds via different packets. Just like the Tsunami time will tell if this is true.These and other rumors are just that no release of information from the manf.as to the truth or not, of these. And Thanks to MR Wolf and his MTH crap,any new info will be closely gaurded. I am a fan of Soundtraxx their first Generation diesels and alco sounds are in my opinion the best on the market,But I was told the same thing about testing the new tsunami allmost a year ago,as with all I will believe it when I hear it.Terry

[Anonymous]

I realize that I a newbee, but what is wrong with "MRC sound decoders"? They don't work half the time or what?

ennout

[AntonioFP45]

QUOTE: Originally posted by railguyho

There is rumor that both BLI and LiFE LIKE will be releasing add on sound before the end of the year.Qsi is rumored to be developing a user friendly uploadable sound decoder to allow custom sounds via different packets. Just like the Tsunami time will tell if this is true.These and other rumors are just that no release of information from the manf.as to the truth or not, of these. And Thanks to MR Wolf and his MTH crap,any new info will be closely gaurded. I am a fan of Soundtraxx their first Generation diesels and alco sounds are in my opinion the best on the market, But I was told the same thing about testing the new tsunami allmost a year ago,as with all I will believe it when I hear it.Terry

Good points Terry!

Uploadable sound decoders would be great! Would be nice to be able to select your preferred horn sound. Good to see that something that was considered a "noisy gimmick" by some critics on this forum back in 2003 is becoming more generally welcomed in our hobby.

QSI & Soundtraxx--EMD 2nd Gen.

I've commented on how crisp, sharp and dynamic the sound of BLI diesels are with the QSI sound units. QSI's quality of sound is hard to beat, and yet I must admit that with regards to the 2nd Generation EMD 645 series sound decoder, Soundtraxx's version (to me [;)] ) sounds better then QSI's version as the first thing I always listen for is that "Turbocharger's whine". It's a little subdued on the BLI SD40-2. I'm only assuming but one must consider that the prototype engine where the recording for QSI came from might of had a quieter turbo OR the guys digitally mixing the sound for the QSI decoder might have turned it down. There's always variables involved! Of course, I still plan on getting an SD40-2 anyway!

I'm just happy that inspite of the MTH vs. QSI lawsuit, the manufacturers seem to be pushing forward in improving and promoting sound. [:D][:D][:D][:D][swg][tup]

[AntonioFP45]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ennout

I realize that I a newbee, but what is wrong with "MRC sound decoders"? They don't work half the time or what?

ennout

Hi, Ennout.[8D]

Re: MRC sound decoders.
I went with two close friends of mine to a train show. A friendly vendor had an HO scale F7 running with sound. My two friends and I basically said "Yuck!" [:0][:p] The vendor even joked "Yeah, that's got an MRC sound unit, it just makes noise!" Basically, all I heard was "Static Vooooom" instead of an EMD 567. The only sound on this unit that seemed decent was the bell. The horn and diesel sound, IMHO, paled in comparison to sounds from QSI and Soundtraxx.

Even the Soundtraxx LC decoder, which to me is a little weak, sounds much better than the MRC unit.

To give MRC credit though, I'm very sure that they've read and heard the critiques and are probably working on making significant improvements. I hope so, as the more competition in the ring, the better for us![:D]