I've been following the 4X8 post and a though occurred to me...
Arguing the pro's and con's of the 4X8 is much like arguing politics: there may be some valid points on both sides, but no one is going to actually switch teams overnight.
My thought is this...perhaps some of you would be good enough to show the rookies like me some alternatives to the "dreaded" 4X8. To put it bluntly: put up, or shut up.
I will admit, I was considering using a 4X8 to practice my skills on, but I am definitely interested in another variation that would offer more realistic operation.
~ Jason
Throw us a bone here, what scale are you doing?
Lee
Route of the Alpha Jets www.wmrywesternlines.net
No...At least arguing politics makes SOME sense...
http://www.atlasrr.com/Code100web/index.htmHere's some alternatives for ya!
I posted this on the other thread... perhaps it will be more useful here... First, take a 4x8 sheet, and dismember it thusly...
The arrangement at the bottom is only a suggestion, but smaller slices allow you to move things around to suit your needs. I built this as a 4x12, with a long loop main line around the perimeter, a small yard, and some switching.
This is what it looked like...
A 4X8 is not too small - except when we try to put HO equipment on it
It becomes 'TOY LIKE'.
A 3' door with 'N' GAUGE on it makes more sense, + you put against a wall and still reach everything. Legs supprt it.
"but it costs the same - and I GET LESS" (smaller). - ' Newbie amateur'.
Don Gibson wrote: A 4X8 is not too small - except when we try to put HO equipment on itIt becomes 'TOY LIKE'.A 3' door with 'N' GAUGE on it makes more sense, + you put against a wall and still reach everything. Legs supprt it."but it costs the same - and I GET LESS" (smaller). - ' Newbie amateur'.
Look, this post isn't for arguing what's better. There's enough of that on the other thread.
If you say you can do better than a standard 4x8, draw up a little example and post it.
The answer to your question is depended on your space and environment. (And I don't think there was anyone arguing that a 4 x 8 was wrong, it's just difficult to make good.) But assuming an empty room.
Here's a for instance. My space for a layout was a corner of the basement. It is 11 feet on the long side. 10 feet on the left and 6 foot 8 inches on the right. When I put a 4 x 8 in the room, I had about 30" behind the layout and 18" on each end to get round.
When I redesigned it for the space I got this.
But this doesn't mean that this layout is for you nor does it mean you should even get this elaborate. But I believe every person should look at their space and really explore their alternatives before deciding on a layout format.
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
SpaceMouse wrote: The answer to your question is depended on your space and environment.
I'm really just speaking in generalities. I just wanted to provide a helpful thread where some of you guys could post some examples without the endless drivel.
loathar wrote: No...At least arguing politics makes SOME sense...http://www.atlasrr.com/Code100web/index.htmHere's some alternatives for ya!
I picked 10033 a year ago , I guess as a 4 x 8 (Chip$$$) alternative .
j/k
J Campbell wrote: Don Gibson wrote: A 4X8 is not too small - except when we try to put HO equipment on itIt becomes 'TOY LIKE'.A 3' door with 'N' GAUGE on it makes more sense, + you put against a wall and still reach everything. Legs supprt it."but it costs the same - and I GET LESS" (smaller). - ' Newbie amateur'.Look, this post isn't for arguing what's better. There's enough of that on the other thread. If you say you can do better than a standard 4x8, draw up a little example and post it.
Don never really offers anything useful, just the same ol' same ol'
SpaceMouse wrote: But assuming an empty room.
I dont have one, would it be safe to say that it would be better NOT to build anything if all you could build was a 4 x 8? (Chip$$$)
(N scale is out of the question, don't bother lobbying please)
Maybe the problem is there are assumptions being made by the "no 4x 8" (Chip$$$) crowd?
twomule wrote: SpaceMouse wrote: But assuming an empty room.I dont have one, would it be safe to say that it would be better NOT to build anything if all you could build was a 4 x 8? (Chip$$$)(N scale is out of the question, don't bother lobbying please)Maybe the problem is there are assumptions being made by the "no 4x 8" (Chip$$$) crowd?
Mr. Mule,
It seems that you are so busy being offended that you haven't really been reading anything. I am quite sure that noone ever said that building nothing was better than a 4x8, they never even came close to saying that. It has been said there might be other options to consider, but even then, a 4x8 might be the right choice. I don't think there is a "no 4x8" crowd, though there are some that would at least think outside of the box before deciding to build it.
The other line of thought was that given a 4x8 was the chosen solution what are some of the ways to use that shape to its best advantage, the same as you would any other shape.
Jeff But it's a dry heat!
J Campbell wrote: I'm really just speaking in generalities. I just wanted to provide a helpful thread where some of you guys could post some examples.
I'm really just speaking in generalities. I just wanted to provide a helpful thread where some of you guys could post some examples.
J Campbell wrote:I've been following the 4X8 post and a though occurred to me...Arguing the pro's and con's of the 4X8 is much like arguing politics: there may be some valid points on both sides, but no one is going to actually switch teams overnight.My thought is this...perhaps some of you would be good enough to show the rookies like me some alternatives to the "dreaded" 4X8. To put it bluntly: put up, or shut up.I will admit, I was considering using a 4X8 to practice my skills on, but I am definitely interested in another variation that would offer more realistic operation.
The arguement about 4x8 is its a common lumber size and you can slap your track down fast and have something going.
It may be relative to your skills and desires, and I have been down the road doing 4x8, a permanent layout, modular stuff and a club layout which had to be torn out eventually.
My modeling choice now is custom modules not really designed standard to any takemout and fit to other guys stuff, but to be moveable and NOT destroy the work you put into it. And a design that will be challenging and everlasting.
I don't have much of a layout now yet, but its in the works, I have a design down.
http://www.qtm.net/dinwitty/rr/rr1.html
Visit here for what I am after.
J Campbell wrote: SpaceMouse wrote: The answer to your question is depended on your space and environment. I'm really just speaking in generalities. I just wanted to provide a helpful thread where some of you guys could post some examples without the endless drivel.
I think this outlines it pretty well if you just want generalities. http://home.earthlink.net/~mrsvc/id28.html
Mr. TwoMule (whichever end):
MY SUGGESTION (Re a 4'X8') was TO put 'N' on it. (18" curves become 36". 22" curves become 44").
A 3' door with 'N' GAUGE on it (even) makes more sense, + you put against a wall and still reach everything...
I think my 'contribution' (however poor) trumps your dissing - in comparison. (just an opinion).
twomule wrote: I picked 10033 a year ago , I guess as a 4 x 8 (Chip$$$) alternative .j/k
And what is wrong with this layout? A point to point with continous running.
I'm not sure what your beef is. I know my example was over the top, but it was the only example I had. It is my dream layout, but I'm a long way off from even starting it.
That doesn't mean that it is your dream layout or in your budget. Heck, it's not in my budget yet.
You're waging a fight where there is none.
You're waging a fight where there is none
HUH?
Nothing Chip, nothing wrong at all with it. I guess you forgot I posted this as my trackplan on one of many other 4x8 threads, one that I am building.
Never mentioned anything at all about your dream design.
Seriously, good luck with your article.
wm3798 wrote:I posted this on the other thread... perhaps it will be more useful here... First, take a 4x8 sheet, and dismember it thusly...The arrangement at the bottom is only a suggestion, but smaller slices allow you to move things around to suit your needs. I built this as a 4x12, with a long loop main line around the perimeter, a small yard, and some switching.This is what it looked like...Lee
this is the modularizing idea I am after, and you get twice or better the layout you could with a 4x8 area. A railroad is long, lean, mean, and lanky. A lot of waste is in those blank areas where the track isnt.
Menards sells 2x4 sizes and thats about my modular standard, I worked out a curved module just measuring in 1 foot from the corners, cut the corners off and wow, a corner module! Kinda non-standard size but I work it. allows wide radius.
wm3798 wrote: I posted this on the other thread... perhaps it will be more useful here... First, take a 4x8 sheet, and dismember it thusly...The arrangement at the bottom is only a suggestion, but smaller slices allow you to move things around to suit your needs. I built this as a 4x12, with a long loop main line around the perimeter, a small yard, and some switching.This is what it looked like...Lee
I take it some of you guys never developed reading comprehension skills.
Stop the nonsense. If you want to argue the pro's and con's of the standard 4X8, do it on the other thread. I started this one in hope that it could actually be helpful.
Thanks for all the relevant contributions thus far. Now...If any of you have any more examples of a 4X8 alternative, and feel like participating, I'd be really interested in seeing them.
If you just want to argue or debate, do it somewhere else.
pcarrell wrote:I think this outlines it pretty well if you just want generalities. http://home.earthlink.net/~mrsvc/id28.html
Thanks. That was pretty informative.
You might go with a shelf layout. You can cut a 4 by 8 leingth-wise to make two 2 by 8 boards, which you can either put end-to-end or in an L shape. How you arrange them depends on your room shape. There are a ton of great track plans for these shapes on the web.
Another alternative is to take 2 sheets of plywood, cut each one at the 5'4" mark. The 4 pieces can then be arranged in a 5'4"x12' layout. This is twice the size of the 4x8 and allows for larger radii. But it does require a larger room.
I started with a 4x8 and a plan from the back of John Armstrong's book "Track Planning for Realistic Operation" (unfortunately the plan is not in the current edition, find a first edition if you can it has more plans for small layouts) and still it think it was the best begining I could have had.
Enjoy
Paul
IRONROOSTER wrote:I started with a 4x8 and a plan from the back of John Armstrong's book "Track Planning for Realistic Operation" (unfortunately the plan is not in the current edition, find a first edition if you can it has more plans for small layouts) and still it think it was the best begining I could have had.
I ordered that book on a recommendation from another forum member, but it hasn't arrived yet.
I'm gettin' kinda' antsy.
I'm not afraid of going larger, per say...I just want something that will afford me a place to learn as well as provide a somewhat realistic design to afford some prototypical operation.
J Campbell wrote: IRONROOSTER wrote:I started with a 4x8 and a plan from the back of John Armstrong's book "Track Planning for Realistic Operation" (unfortunately the plan is not in the current edition, find a first edition if you can it has more plans for small layouts) and still it think it was the best begining I could have had.I ordered that book on a recommendation from another forum member, but it hasn't arrived yet.I'm gettin' kinda' antsy.I'm not afraid of going larger, per say...I just want something that will afford me a place to learn as well as provide a somewhat realistic design to afford some prototypical operation.
It is an excellent book. You'll need to read it at least twice for it to start to sink in.
J Campbell wrote: I'm not afraid of going larger, per say...I just want something that will afford me a place to learn as well as provide a somewhat realistic design to afford some prototypical operation.
Post a diagram of the space you have to work with and we'll toss around a few ideas for you. If you haven't already, look at my beginner's guide clickable form my signature. Takes about 5 minutes to read and might get you thinking.
SpaceMouse wrote:Post a diagram of the space you have to work with and we'll toss around a few ideas for you.
Here ya go...knock yourselves out. Just a few things to keep in mind:
1. I'd like to keep the access to the door to the outside if possible.
2. I need to be able to get at least 1 car in the garage.
3. I'd really like to be able to have continuous operation in addition to some switching.
Two questions. Can the car park on the side nearest the house? And is it okay to block the window with a backdrop?
Oh, yeah, a 4X8 is the best choice for your space. Not.
This is literally a ten-minute sketch, so it addresses only one of many possibilities. It's always a good idea to try bridging the hood of the car in a garage design, I think. This option leaves you lots of room along the top wall for the impedimentia of modern life (bikes, lawn equipment, etc., etc.)
Again, this is just one of many alternatives. Hopefully food for thought.
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