Well sorry if the title of my post is a bit off the norm but I couldn't be more disgusted. I had and I specify the word had a 40'x24' layout. Now don't get me wrong it wasn't of the caliber of a Howard Zane or a John Allen by any stretch of the imagination but I took a lot of pride in what myself and 4 or 5 dedicated friends had helped to create. So let me get to the issue at hand.
Last week we had a furnace blowback which for those of you who are not familiar with happened when basically the furnace burps out a huge cloud of sot and black oily smoke throughout the entire heating system and completely ruins everything it touches. So I get the call last week from my wife and I rush home to find my local fire department with every single piece of fire fighting apparatuses they own in front of my house or in my yard. They got their smoke ejectors going full speed and looked like an old coal burning locomotive was pulling a long grade.
So after calming down a bit I go into the house to survey the damage. At first glace I thought not too bad it could have been worse. Still a god-awful mess to deal with but thank god no one was hurt and my house was still standing. It wasn't till about an hour or so later it hit me like a ton of bricks (MY TRAINS!) I walked down to the basement to find my entire layout covered in soot. So instant weather you might think but mix the soot with a nice blend of fuel oil and you have one horrendous mess. I have basically written the entire set up off as trash. So now I have the insurance company to deal with and they say no problem we'll pay to have them cleaned, repaired or replaced. Here's the kicker, they want anything they deem as a total loss for salvage. What is there an honest Charlie's used model train salvage yard some place?
Screw the money there is a huge emotional attachment as many of you can understand with my trains. Last fathers day my 4 year old son gave me a Proto Heritage 2000 0-6-0. The look on his little face was priceless when he gave daddy a cool train. So yeah I'm about to give that to some insurance company I think not.
So the scenery is all shot to hell I know that but the bench work is intact etc. but does anyone have any suggestions as to A: how to clean the engines (90 odd pieces ) and 300 plus pieces of rolling stock, B: clean the structures, bridges etc. C: The track work and switches. I haven't even tried to see if anything will work, as I'm afraid I will cause more harm or possibly set the whole thing a blaze. I just started to make the transition over to DCC so about 20 or so of my engines are dcc. The only thing that saved me from total annihilation was the fact that I closed off all the vents in the duct work around the layout. Any suggestion will be greatly appreciated. I will try and post some pics but the blow back took out all the computers in our house as well.
Im sorry to hear of this loss. I can understand what it must be like having grown up near a oil furnance.. (Whadda monstor) in my time.
I have been called as part of my work to drive insurance salvage wrecked vehicles in Auction here in Arkansas. These vehicles have been through wrecks and despite loss of life, damage or destruction are still driveable. Those are the ones I have to move to the auction block computer malfunctions, smashed glass, sharp steel and all.
I told my employer that I will not engage in that particular part of the industry anymore. It is unnatural to me. I dont mind wrestling junkers or near salvage from time to time but the accident insurance ones are the absolute saddest of all.
If it was me, I would write it all off as loss and call a dumpster truck to drop a box in the yard.
You might save a few items that were in boxes or packed well but to think of an insurance company wanting to sell oil soaked train stuff is past the oomphalumpa way for me.
As far as fires... I would not even power the layout up at all. One good short long enough probably will light that stuff. And there will be a serious problem that might cost your life or others. I may be a bit overboard as usual but that is how I see it.
My vote goes to "Trash it all"
What they will do ( at least for the company that my wife works for ), is auction it off, in " AS IS " condition.
My wife works in the insurance industry, and I see this sort of thing, before - indeed the wife and I have made bids on salvage items before - $25 for a 39 inch color TV - didn't work, but, at that price we were willing to risk it.
OTOH, when the same company wrote off my 3 yr old Lap Top computer last year ( after my kids acadentialy jumped on it ), they told me to toss it in the trash, as anything on it was already out dated - as it would have cost more to find a replacement motherboard than to buy a entire new Lap Top - so they were not worried about it since there was no salvage value what so ever.
Driline wrote:I thought oil firing furnaces went away with the mini skirt? We had one in the early 60's and then converted over to heated water. My own homes have been forced air.
secondhandmodeler wrote: Driline wrote:I thought oil firing furnaces went away with the mini skirt? We had one in the early 60's and then converted over to heated water. My own homes have been forced air. I believe fuel oil is still quite common in New England.
Why?
Sorry to hear about you lost...Terrible!!!
I just went through a flood and my insurance company wanted everything I claim as a lost..
No problem..I didn't want my water logged furniture and personal items.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Nope..oil fired furnaces is common as wood stoves in some states.
Driline wrote: secondhandmodeler wrote: Driline wrote:I thought oil firing furnaces went away with the mini skirt? We had one in the early 60's and then converted over to heated water. My own homes have been forced air. I believe fuel oil is still quite common in New England.Why?
We use lots of furnace oil fuel in Canada...tonnes and tons.
I am sorry for all the damage and upheaval this is costing you. I suppose that, once it is getting to be mostly an unpleasant chapter in your past, you can look forward to trying something new/better for your layout. I hope the locomotives can be cleaned a bit, at least the special ones.
-Crandell
secondhandmodeler wrote: Driline wrote: secondhandmodeler wrote: Driline wrote:I thought oil firing furnaces went away with the mini skirt? We had one in the early 60's and then converted over to heated water. My own homes have been forced air. I believe fuel oil is still quite common in New England.Why? I have no idea.
Why? That is they way they built it. Most homes I know of in the central Atlantic area had oil. One advantage was to buy the stuff mid summer where the prices are at it's lowest and store until winter. That way it's bought and paid for in the coldest months requiring only electricity to run the oil pump motor, thermostat and the igniter.
Even wood in some areas.
Here in the south it's mostly Natural Gas. There are 5 pipelines to Arkansas that carry the stuff and a small boomtime of drilling in my area for shale gas. Some folks use wood either bought or cut from thier own lands. Some folks have all electric for everything and boy are they sorry. At $300-$500 per month billing.
If memory serves, the early 50's were the boom in housing after the war years and those that had oil lived in luxury versus the coal homes. Coal was pretty durn good by then but oil was king.
Overseas in England, one family home I visited once used coal or peat to heat everything believe it or not. I dont know how they got thier hot water and didnt ask.
jecorbett wrote:I can understand the insurance company wanting the items that are total losses if for no other reason than to discourage fraud by those who would take the money for a total loss and then repair the item. I don't have any advice for cleaning the locos. If it were my layout, I would be more concerned about all the sweat equity I had put into it. It wouldn't bother me to replace the locos and rolling stock but I put a lot of time into building the structure kits and the scenery and how do I get compensated for that. I would guess one would have to get a special coverage to cover the cost of having someone come in and rebuild your layout.
If I spent 100 hours building my layout town on the 12 foot long section dedicated to it... I cannot expect to make a penny for the time. I would expect the enjoyment and pursuit of happiness to be beneficial in stress reduction and perhaps enjoying good health and staying away from the hospital or vices.
If it was a layout that was purchased and built for you? Well there should be a few firms in the insurance business that insure model railroading stuff. Didnt MR run a ad for a small insurance company offering coverage in 1000, 5000, 10000+ dollar levels?
If anything happened to my railroad and ,.. let's say it got burned up in a big old fire. The house plus contents will be paid for and rebuilt. What is left from that money will start us all over again provided that everything is properly handled.
Personally, I dont mind rebuilding from nothing all over again. Ive done it several times already in this life.
First, take a deep breath and walk away. Do not assess it fully until you've cleared your mind to where you can focus logically. During that time, go yourself to one of the myriad of restoration services and educate yourself on the products that will clean the items you want to save without damaging the plastic and electrical components.
By the time you have this information, you will be settled in your mind as to what you can and should salvage. Anything that you can go down to the store and replace today should be the first items to be handed off to the insurance company - get new. That would include all track / turnouts / out-of-the-box structures / controllers / etc.
With all that stuff out of the way, it's time to look at the out of production / scratch-built / sentimental items. Some of these items could be replaced with similar new items - referring to the out-of-production engines and freight cars. Any engines with decoders in them that you are willing to give up should save the decoders themselves as they have probably been protected within the shell.
At this point, you'll have the irreplaceable items left. These can all be cleaned using the knowledge you acquired earlier from the professionals. I would highly recommend taking some of your insurance money and invest in an ultra-sonic cleaner. These will do a lot of the work for you and can get into even the smallest places that you just can't get to by hand - especially great for steam engines. Bridges and structure will have to be done by hand, it's tedious, but it can be done.
Mark.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
As it has been said before, there is a high concentration of homes that use oil heat in the Northeast US. I've lived in New England for over 25 years now (originally from the Midwest where Natural Gas heat is/was prevalent), and I had never even heard of oil heat until I moved out here. I can only conclude that it's a well entrenched industry that has always enjoyed deep connections with the local building industry.
But that's changing. In the grand scheme of things, oil heat is only used in 7 percent of American households. That's down from 9 percent a decade ago (these figures come from a recent AP article). Natural Gas is moving in with a vengeance, and it's being helped by the fact that oil heat is currently twice as expensive as Natural Gas. Needless to say, those who can are converting.
I'm thankful to be hooked into Natural Gas at my home.
Allegheny2-6-6-6 wrote:I have basically written the entire set up off as trash. So now I have the insurance company to deal with and they say no problem we'll pay to have them cleaned, repaired or replaced. Here's the kicker, they want anything they deem as a total loss for salvage.
reklein wrote:Actually fuel oil is no.2 deisel,same fuel trctors and any deisel engine uses. I bet the top shelf in the dishwasher would work good. An alternative would be to use JOY and hot water and wash by hand almost everything ,even the brass and blow it out good after washing. I think even decoders will take some moisture if dried out well. Try one or two of each item and find out what worked the best. start with the cheap stuff and work with the method that works best.
Sorry to hear about your loss.
I agree with reklein that cleaning may be possible for a few of those sentimental pieces. Oil fired funaces, both boilers and hot air heat exchangers are very common here in New England. There are many areas that don't have natual gas available leaving propane, electric or oil as your choices. Oil is relatively safe, efficient and produces a high BTU/ gal for the price. It is very rare that a soot blowback happens unless the furnace is very old and has not been serviced properly. I don't know what the issues were with your's causing such a problem.
For those with oil fired funaces, do have them checked and cleaned before every heating season. A telltail sign of a clogged nozzle, sooted electrodes or soot within the chamber or target wall is a rummble or slight bang upon initial ingition, especially if the unit has cooled and has not fired within a few hours. Oil even with its high present cost is still comparable to gas unless you have a fairly new high efficiency gas unit. Many of the older large homes still are more efficient on oil, unless the entire massive heating system, radiator and piping is completely changed. Gas fired boilers and heat exchangers are then usually used to gain the efficiency but the cost is usually prohibitive unless you are doing a total gut and remodel.
Oil is not that bad... I'm not a heating contractor or plumber but have picked the brains of many subs over the years.
Modeling B&O- Chessie Bob K. www.ssmrc.org
Uh oh. My layout is right next to an oil furnace!
Luckilly the house mostly uses wood pellet stoves for heat, the furnace is almost never on.
I can imagine the feeling when you realize something that bad! My heart's with you!
May I suggest dissassembly and using one of these with a household degreaser.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=7340
Self contained and a closed loop system so small parts wont go down the drain and you can take as much time as needed to clean off the gunk, better that canning a whole collection.
Have fun with your trains
I would give glass cleaning products like Windex or glass Plus a try on the plastic items. They're great degreasers, are mild, and leave no residue. I use them on my models all the time, and the only time I've had an issue with paint was when the model was vintage and the paint had gotten tacky with age. Don't give up so soon, especially with the sentimental items.
You wouldn't believe some of the basket cases I've brought back.
I never knew oil furnaces burped like that. Sorry this had to happen to your pride & joy, but it may not be a total loss.
Nelson
Ex-Southern 385 Being Hoisted
Man. I really feel for your loss. Makes me glad for my natural gas appliances.
I second the poster above about dishwashing liquid. I once received training for cleaning wildlife caught in oil spills - and they used Dawn straight from the bottle. It's gentle but effective on most oily liquids.
I'd bet that most of the track and other hardware can be salvaged. Not sure about electrical works, but I wonder if they couldn't be cleaned, dried, and re-lubricated. I'd be most concerned about the electronics (decoders and DCC systems) and anything made of wood/paper/foam. You might even be able to clean lichen and such but I think all of your scratchbuilt structures (non-plastic) are probably shot.
The bright spot (assuming you can salvage the sentimental bits) is that you get to build a new setup - but be sure to invest some of the insurance money in a new furnace first.M
In all likelyhood unless you have a really good insurance company you're likely to end up on your own for the most part. If you find a cleaning agency that'll take the job on it might well cost more than replacemnent value and that might be another issue. See what the adjuster says. If you really don't like what you hear and you get nowhere with the insurance company contact your state insurance commision and see what rights you have. It varies state to state.
I would guess the rolling stock will be cleanable and after researching some likely methods I'd start with some less dear cars and see how it goes. Hopefully you don't have a lot of time in weathering as whatever cleans the soot will almost certainly remove any weathering. The scenery might be the biggest problem since most of it will need cleaning in place. I really sympathize with your loss and hope it ll works out for you, but i fear you have a long road back. Good luck, J.R.
I feel truly sorry for you, Allegheny. As others have said, locos and rolling stock probably can be cleaned, will not be returned to prior-to-incident condition, you'll need to weight time and effort against insurance payment, replaceability of item, emotional attachment, etc.
I know that oil heat is still strong in New England, and I think some of the north central too. In New England, a lot of it is existing systems in older housing.
But I would never be happy with a furnace - naked fires in the house, regular maintenance needed, have to order fuel, etc. Also extremely costly to move the equipment around if a major remodelling calls for doing so. Some older houses in my area have oil and the trend is for them to shift over time to forced air; every year there are several horror stories about their fuel company pumping a few hundred gallons into an exterior connecting pipe that is no longer connected to a tank. Here in the mid-Atlantic heat pumps work very well - we have a pretty large house but our heating bill rarely exceeds about $100 / month.
First, my sincere condolences on your misadventure. I haven't had anything exactly similar, but I have had to re-locate several times (career military.) I forget which of the famous and quotable stated, "Two removes are equal to one fire," but I think he was on to something.
Texas Zepher wrote: Allegheny2-6-6-6 wrote:I have basically written the entire set up off as trash. So now I have the insurance company to deal with and they say no problem we'll pay to have them cleaned, repaired or replaced. Here's the kicker, they want anything they deem as a total loss for salvage.That is entirely common insurance company practice. Screw the money there is a huge emotional attachment as many of you can understand with my trains. Last fathers day my 4 year old son gave me a Proto Heritage 2000 0-6-0. The look on his little face was priceless when he gave daddy a cool train. So yeah I'm about to give that to some insurance company I think not.Why don't you have the things with emontional attachment or which are irreplacable cleaned, and let them scrap the rest. In some ways it could be a blessing in disguise. I wish I could get rid of a few things I wish I hadn't purchased (Genesis 4-6-6-4) for cash and replace them with things that would work for fit my scheme better.
My sentiments exactly. First, check to see if your insurer will give you a little time to test whether you can clean up your rolling stock. (Make your tests on expendables like BB freight cars, not sentimental items.) After testing gives either a go or a no-go, segregate those items you absolutely, positively want to keep and let them have the rest, or segregate everything you consider worth recovering and let them have the rest. Recovering the layout itself, the electricals and un-washable buildings would probably not be cost effective (or even safe, in the case of anything with lights or power.)
You might end up with most of your rolling stock scheduled for a trip through the dishwasher, or only sentimental pieces to be placed in the hands of someone who cleans fine jewelry. Only testing will tell.
Either way, cooperate with your insurer. You'll both be happier.
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Big ole Yikes!!
If there is just soot over things you maybe in luck, but if fuel oil got on things, thats a big ole mess. Fuel oil will not be friendly on plastic and will soften over time. You will prolly want a mini vacuum to hit small things and not suck off all the details. If the insurance company will cover cleanup maybe it will be good to refer to a cleaning company that specializes in cleanup like this. A work buddy had a fire in the kitchen and never did I know there was a company that specializes in sucking out the soot in the heating system. The cleaning company may know all the ups and downs and intricate problems in cleanup.
Being a chemical engineering student, I have spent many a day in chemistry labs. Basically like dissolves like. ie. oil will dissolve in oil based solvents, water in water based solvents. Everyone knows oil is hydrophobic, so stay away from any water based solvents. Dish soap may work, as it is mild enough. Perhaps orange oil? The problem with that would be cost, it sounds like you would need a lot.
The problem you are going to run into is that plastic is an oil based product and will be eaten by any strong solvent. Benzene, Acetone (nail polish remover), MEK, ether(starting fluid), Gasoline(an interesting possibility), even WD40 would all be too strong. Pick a piece of rolling stock that you don't want and try some of those, but you may end up with a puddle of plastic.
This is something I picked up from bowling. The bowling ball will absorb the oil off the lane and begins to lose it's effectiveness after many games. What I do is take a 5 gallon bucket, fill it part way with hot/warm water and dish soap, then let the ball soak for a period of time. The oil floats on top of the water, which can be skimmed off. I also pull the ball out, wipe it off, and change the water often. It takes time, but gets rid of the oil. You might want to try it with your trains. You could do it in the a bathtub or laundry tub. Take the shells off your locos and put them with your rolling stock in the warm water. You may need to take a soft bristled brush to them.
Lastly, if you run them through the dishwasher, beware that the heating element can get quite hot. I have used the dishwasher to clean bowling balls in the past. The coverstock on the balls (reactive resin) got soft and had dimples from the prongs on the racks in the dishwasher. I would imagine the styrene could get soft as well. You could always air dry after the rinse cycle
Also, make sure to allow plenty of drying time for the mechanism and relube it afterwards.
Good Luck!