Bowser BigBoy discontinued

[dinwitty]

I think there are some small obscure steam kit makers out there, but they are not as big as the MDC, Mantua, Bowser.

[R. T. POTEET]

i heard something even worse while talking today with dan on yardbirdstrains.com, he says that  all of the metal kits built by bowser are discontinued due high price of metal and non builders due to rtr  locomotives, i just when i got back into model railroading and felt pride as to building my own kits.

the only thing that he suggests get 'em while their hot

This is, indeed, dire news! I would hope that it were just a rumor but, unfortunately, I fear your information may be correct. Somehow or another, I just cannot fathom a model railroad hobby without Bowser die-cast steamers. I wonder if Bowser did not see the handwriting on the wall when they purchased Stewart a few years back.

I don't really have an immediate interest in returning to HO Scale but my 67 year old fingers are getting just a little arthritic and I may have to give some serious thought to doing just that in the future. I had always considered that, if I did decide to return to HO Scale, I would build my fleet with die-cast kits and that, automatically, infers Bowser.

I was prompted to google Hobbytown of Boston to inquire as to their status; things are not well in that theater also. Apparently Bear Locomotive has suspended operation and is selling down it's Hobbytown of Boston stock and it looks seriously like that name is also going to soon disappear. The last I heard Tiger Valley is still in business and, of course, there is always MDC/Roundhouse and Model Power periodically reintroduces one of the Mantua kits but, to the best of my knowledge, those are the last of the die-cast kit builders.

"THE TIMES, THEY ARE A'CHANGIN'"

Cjcrescent, I appreciate your info on TLC; those people just seem to have ridden off into the sunset without a fair-the-well. I remember peeking at one of their kits one time; sure did seem to be a lot of parts in there.

[0-6-0]

Hello OK guys I have been back in the hobby for 3 years now so I missed a lot . I know most of the steam kits are not made any more but is there any one left that makes them beside Bowser ? And if know one is buying kits will everything be RTR one day ? Are we on the way to buying are layout in one big box ? Just paint it and some detail and you are set . Don't get me wrong I have a bunch of RTR stuff but I really like building it to. I am now stating to get in to scenery and like it but not that good yet.Working on kits helps it easer to pant parts then the hole thing or have to take a new loco a part to do it. It just seems to me we lost part of the hobby. Have a nice day Frank

[Soo Line fan]

You hear a lot of horror stores about those kits. I remember reading about one poor guy who put in many hours on a Arbour kit.  On its maiden voyage it began losing parts along the right of way.

While Mantua and Bowser got it right in regards to soft metal kits, Arbour got it about as wrong as you can. I doubt if Bowser is stupid enough to ever re-release one of the former Arbour kits without some serious retooling.

Jim

Jim;

That was probably me that you read about. I had spent almost 18 months building this kit. At the time I had only a short (6') test track and the Allegheny would run well on it. I had taken it to the club at the Chattanooga Terminal, and at that time they allowed you a chance to run your own equipment on the layout. As soon as the loco had moved about 8' down the yard lead, it started shedding parts worse than a 1959 Rambler driving down the freeway in 1985. I took it home and disassembled it. I packed it up and forgot about it for almost 4 years. Funny thing is, the parts pretty much disintegrated over that time due to the "disease". Even the drivers swelled, and cracked the tires as they dissolved away into powder. One of the claims of the company was that their alloy was stronger than zamac. May have been, but it had the disease worse than some models I have seen from the 1950's.

Except for the axles, gears and motor, the entire model, including the valve gear, was this "zamac". There was no way a complicated model like the Allegheny could have stayed together made like that, if it was to be ran regularly. If the drive rods and valve gear and hangers had of been made like the Bowsers were, I believe that it could have been made into a fantastic model.

 

 

Carey:

I thought it was someone on this forum. Sorry about the model and thanks for repeating the story.

I came real close to buying an Arbour 2-8-4 back in the late 80s when I got back into trains. I ended up getting a Mantua Mikado kit after I found out the SOO never owned any Berks. The Mantua still runs great and I am currently adding detailing from Yardbirds and other sources.

Jim

[cjcrescent]

There was another company doing business about this same time called TLC - The Locomotive Company. I never did hear what happened to them; it seems to have just vanished into thin air sometime. 

Got one of the kits and they were a bear to build as well. A friend of mine had bought 4 sets of the kits. The mech, the boiler, and the tender were all separate kits. It did allow you a great deal of "freedom" to put together a model from 1900-1920 prototypes. The kit I got was for a SRR G- class 2-8-0. The kit did assemble well if you were very careful, but the side rods were the most brittle castings I've ever seen. Mine were all cracked. I had to build my own rods. I am not satisfied with those and will see if I can come up with some better ones. The mechs on the locos of the friend I got mine from, finally died but since his boiler and tender were still in good shape, he put a MDC Old Time 2-8-0 mech under his and its still running strong. I'll have to take some photos of it and see what yall think!

 

[cjcrescent]

You hear a lot of horror stores about those kits. I remember reading about one poor guy who put in many hours on a Arbour kit.  On its maiden voyage it began losing parts along the right of way.

While Mantua and Bowser got it right in regards to soft metal kits, Arbour got it about as wrong as you can. I doubt if Bowser is stupid enough to ever re-release one of the former Arbour kits without some serious retooling.

Jim

Jim;

That was probably me that you read about. I had spent almost 18 months building this kit. At the time I had only a short (6') test track and the Allegheny would run well on it. I had taken it to the club at the Chattanooga Terminal, and at that time they allowed you a chance to run your own equipment on the layout. As soon as the loco had moved about 8' down the yard lead, it started shedding parts worse than a 1959 Rambler driving down the freeway in 1985. I took it home and disassembled it. I packed it up and forgot about it for almost 4 years. Funny thing is, the parts pretty much disintegrated over that time due to the "disease". Even the drivers swelled, and cracked the tires as they dissolved away into powder. One of the claims of the company was that their alloy was stronger than zamac. May have been, but it had the disease worse than some models I have seen from the 1950's.

Except for the axles, gears and motor, the entire model, including the valve gear, was this "zamac". There was no way a complicated model like the Allegheny could have stayed together made like that, if it was to be ran regularly. If the drive rods and valve gear and hangers had of been made like the Bowsers were, I believe that it could have been made into a fantastic model.

 

 

[R. T. POTEET]

. . . . . . . . . . You hear a lot of horror stores about those (Arbour) kits . . . . . . . . . . . While Mantua and Bowser got it right in regards to soft metal kits, Arbour got it about as wrong as you can (get it) . . . . . . . . . .

When Arbour Models went belly up back in the late '70s their dies came into possession of a guy from either Sedona or Prescott Valley, Arizona; at the time I was still putting together die-cast lokes and, at one time I had been interested in acquiring one of their Allegheny kits. Shortly before the original owners of Arbour Models threw in the towel I had mentioned to my local's proprietor about getting one of these 2-6-6-6 models and he told me without elaborating that I really didn't want one. When I ran into the then-current owner of the Arbour dies and inquired about when he was going to resume production he gave me a strange look and remarked that they weren't worth putting back into production. I heard later on that some of the frames found in some of their kits were frequently severely warped and torqued and some of their boiler shells took about a ten degree downward pitch at mid boiler. Surprisingly there was a guy in the club I belonged to at Lajes Field in the Azores who had built an Arbour kit and rather liked it; Arbour's main pain appears to have been erratic quality control.

I was not aware that Bowser had come into possession of these dies but I don't expect to ever see any of them on the market.

There was another company doing business about this same time called TLC - The Locomotive Company. I never did hear what happened to them; it seems to have just vanished into thin air sometime. 

[loathar]

i heard something even worse while talking today with dan on yardbirdstrains.com, he says that  all of the metal kits built by bowser are discontinued due high price of metal and non builders due to rtr  locomotives, i just when i got back into model railroading and felt pride as to building my own kits.

the only thing that he suggests get 'em while their hot

And me without any money! I was hoping to get a couple of their kits in the future!

[dr.bones]

i heard something even worse while talking today with dan on yardbirdstrains.com, he says that  all of the metal kits built by bowser are discontinued due high price of metal and non builders due to rtr  locomotives, i just when i got back into model railroading and felt pride as to building my own kits.

the only thing that he suggests get 'em while their hot

[riogrande5761]

Hello I was looking for parts for a 4-6-6-4 I found at the show this weekend so went to Bowser and was looking around and seen the BIG BOY is discontinued. I am wounding why is no one building kits any more or the RtR getting cheaper ? Thanks frank

 Well, seems kind of obvious when you look at the big picture.  Most major companies are focusing on HQ RTR stuff and kits are not so popular anymore (at least in terms of sales).

The common sense interpretation is that most money is going to the RTR stuff because it is nice, it is affordable enough, and those buyers probably have little time or desire to build kits.  I know that I've built any number of kits in the first 20-30 years of my hobby years - age 10-30something and like most people, I had way more kits than I would probably ever build.  The hand writing was on the walls and I was glad that I could obtain nice, detailed and accurate models (if I researched them anyway) so my back log of kits would not continue to get larger.  I'm not abashed to say I'd rather model a RR rather than build models individually.  I still have a number of kits to build when the urge hits me.

[Soo Line fan]

You hear a lot of horror stores about those kits. I remember reading about one poor guy who put in many hours on a Arbour kit.  On its maiden voyage it began losing parts along the right of way.

While Mantua and Bowser got it right in regards to soft metal kits, Arbour got it about as wrong as you can. I doubt if Bowser is stupid enough to ever re-release one of the former Arbour kits without some serious retooling.

Jim

[Gandy Dancer]

They picked up the Arbour 2-6-6-6 kits, but nothing has happened there.

"Arbour," he hears.   "Arbour," he thinks.  "Oh, Arbour," he says and goes running away like an insane person.   The Arbour kits are really a tough nut to crack.  My most experienced kit building, scratch building, modeling friends are afraid of those. 

[TomDiehl]

Nabbing an RTR model is great but if your gonna learn the real basics of a steamer, build one.

 

That's always been my main argument for building from kits. Of course back when I started in model railroading, kits were cheaper than RTR and on my budget, it was kits or nothing.

To this day I have no qualms about taking any of them apart and fixing them, kit or RTR origin.

[dinwitty]

Bowser has the retro kit for the monogram unpowered big boy tender. Lucky me I found a brass tender to fit mine tho I did get the retro kit. Glad they are willing to make the kit if orders are sufficient. They should indicate that on their site. In all this time they shoulda worked out a tender...

 They picked up the Arbour 2-6-6-6 kits, but nothing has happened there.

To be honest, maybe they need to develop new kits to suit the MR crowd.

Nabbing an RTR model is great but if your gonna learn the real basics of a steamer, build one.

 

[AggroJones]

Honestly....I don't care for it. Don't matter to me if they are discontinued. I can solidly say I'd NEVER tackle a kit such as that.

You can get a Genesis with sound and tons of detail (all for the same amount as the tenderless old school metal kit. What would you pick? With the Gen, the only work you need to do is weather it.

[NeO6874]

ah, I see where you're getting your price now.  I didn't think of all the extras above and beyond the superdetail kit and stuff. 

 

Also forgot that it didn't come with a tender.

 

Now if we were talking about the K-11 or K4... we could probably get that price a little more "reasonable" 

[Gandy Dancer]

I don't know where you're getting the $300+ pricetag for a kit loco... The challenger is $123.00 ($185 if you go for the superdetail kit)

Well your right if someone is just going to get the kit and build it.   I assumed if someone was going to go to all the trouble to get and build one they would want to do it right and try to get close to the commercially available ones.  Not only getting the Bowser "superdetail kit" but the extra kits like the smoke lifter & exhaust, boiler weights.  Then there are the extra little details not included in their kit to bring it up to the same level of detail as the PCM.  Then, jewels for the marker lamps, working head & tail lamps, a high torque can motor, maybe a tender.  I can't imagine wanting the loco without a tender.

I've been down this road before.  It always costs way more than one expects.  I spent $250 superdetailing a diesel (GP7 to be specific), so I can only imagine what this beast is going to need.  I spent almost $100 detailing a HobbyTown RS-3.  Neither of those are all the details I wanted.  I had to tell myself "good enough" is good enough.

One could not compare it to the PCM if it didn't have sound.  For electronics just a speaker worthy of this locomotive will cost $30 or so. 

[R. T. POTEET]

I have absolutely no way of substantiating this but it might be that, unless Bowser has redone the molds, the dies for this beast might just be wearing out after three or four decades of service. I suspect that this has sold close to a hundred thousand copies over the years and that is a lot of injections. The folks at Bowser could look at this situation and reason that it ain't worth the expense of cutting new dies considering that everybody and their brother wants to get into the Big Boy game. This could definitely be the case if Bowser is a prime candidate for acquisition by either Horizon or Walthers.

When I bolted HO Scale for N Scale I had three Bowsers in my stable of lokes: two K11s and a USRA Mountain - fantastic locomotives. Were I to go back to HO Scale I would probably start things off with the old Varney "Old Lady".

[NeO6874]

I am wounding why is no one building kits any more or the RtR getting cheaper?

I am not wondering.  Why spend $300-$400 to build one then spend another $100 for electronics when one can get a RTR for less money?    I have absolutely no need for a Big Boy but for $199 who can resist?

http://www.factorydirecttrains.com/+PCM-Big-Boy,-HO-c3773.html

 

 

I don't know where you're getting the $300+ pricetag for a kit loco... The challenger is $123.00 ($185 if you go for the superdetail kit) + shipping, so we'll say it's an even $200 because we want that extra detail. I would assume that one would already have many (if not all) of the necessary tools to put one of these together, probably the paint too.  So unless your time for a few weeks (or weekends) is worth another $100-$200 then it's the same price (though I would imagine that the builder would get more satisfaction out of the bowser because he built it). Personally I would take the $200 and a couple of weekends of work/tweaking over the $200 and 2 minutes of work on the PCM.

 

Granted this leaves out DCC, which will add another$10-$100 depending on decoder (and desire for sound).

[Gandy Dancer]

I am wounding why is no one building kits any more or the RtR getting cheaper?

I am not wondering.  Why spend $300-$400 to build one then spend another $100 for electronics when one can get a RTR for less money?    I have absolutely no need for a Big Boy but for $199 who can resist?

http://www.factorydirecttrains.com/+PCM-Big-Boy,-HO-c3773.html

 

[0-6-0]

Hello   Well Darth you are right just the Big Boy is the only one done . I called there to see about the prats I need and ask about the kits. And whats not in stock they will take orders for them and when they get enough they will make them. Did not say how many orders they need to start . But I would say bunch for sure. And no new boiler. Have a nice day Frank

[CAZEPHYR]

Hello I was looking for parts for a 4-6-6-4 I found at the show this weekend so went to Bowser and was looking around and seen the BIG BOY is discontinued. I am wounding why is no one building kits any more or the RtR getting cheaper ? Thanks frank

Using four names, TRIX, PCM, Athearn, BLI and even Rivarossi make the Big Boy as RTR models.    All of them except the Hornby have great detail and all of them run great.  The BLI is a copy of the PCM except for the sound circuit.  They do cost just more than the kits, but the BLI advertised price is very low.  I have two more of those reserved and they should be here soon.   Most of us do not build our models or paint.  There are some exceptions, but on the whole, most of the models sold are so called RTR.

 Cheers 

 

 

Yeah,but none of those locomotives can out pull the two ton Bowser Big Boy...

The Bower is probably the heaviest for sure and should pull more.  The PCM does well for me as they will handle a fairly large train.

Cheers

 

 

[BRAKIE]

Hello I was looking for parts for a 4-6-6-4 I found at the show this weekend so went to Bowser and was looking around and seen the BIG BOY is discontinued. I am wounding why is no one building kits any more or the RtR getting cheaper ? Thanks frank

Using four names, TRIX, PCM, Athearn, BLI and even Rivarossi make the Big Boy as RTR models.    All of them except the Hornby have great detail and all of them run great.  The BLI is a copy of the PCM except for the sound circuit.  They do cost just more than the kits, but the BLI advertised price is very low.  I have two more of those reserved and they should be here soon.   Most of us do not build our models or paint.  There are some exceptions, but on the whole, most of the models sold are so called RTR.

 Cheers 

 

 

Yeah,but none of those locomotives can out pull the two ton Bowser Big Boy...

[dinwitty]

During WW2 you just could NOT buy the way you wanted, and there was plenty of scrounging build it yourselfers. Plenty of kit stuff like the Varneys, Mantua. Seems we have a bunch of lazy modelrailroaders....

I found a Winton 2-6-6-6 unbuilt on ebay, sat around in a barn forever never opened. I didnt win it but the buyer gave up and sold it to me. It is a craftsman kit, I have to make a jig to hold parts for the front pilot truck, Tricky soldering. Mechanism runs like a treat tho.

 

[CAZEPHYR]

Hello I was looking for parts for a 4-6-6-4 I found at the show this weekend so went to Bowser and was looking around and seen the BIG BOY is discontinued. I am wounding why is no one building kits any more or the RtR getting cheaper ? Thanks frank

Using four names, TRIX, PCM, Athearn, BLI and even Rivarossi make the Big Boy as RTR models.    All of them except the Hornby have great detail and all of them run great.  The BLI is a copy of the PCM except for the sound circuit.  They do cost just more than the kits, but the BLI advertised price is very low.  I have two more of those reserved and they should be here soon.   Most of us do not build our models or paint.  There are some exceptions, but on the whole, most of the models sold are so called RTR. 

There are some that still want to build kits but for the most part, we do not build our motive power from kits.   It is sad in a way since this hobby industry in the past has always prided itself in kit building and do it yourself type of models.  Today, we simply stand in line and purchase the lastest sound or DCC system as it is introduced.    

The Big Boy and Challenger models were available but Bower never had a tender for them.   You had to rod one from a Rivarossi or the kit model that was very poorly detailed.  The lack of a tender did not help their sales.  

 Cheers 

 

 

[NeO6874]

Hello thats not the only kit  the PRR 2-10-0, K-4 Pacific, PRR l-1 Mikado. Maybe they are coming out with new kits ? They still show up on the order form for now. And this was not a rant just a heads up someone might be saving up for or looking for a kit. Thanks Frank

 

I hope that they keep their stuff around.  I've been penny saving for the last few months to grab one (or three...[:^]) of their kits, and it would really be a drag if the only (AFAIK) steam loco kits went under...

[dinwitty]

I would think you could still get parts. I found some parts thru ebay, and also at a train show someone was selling some running gear and assorted parts for a challenger and I bought them, in making my BB, busted a few parts, the extra parts will be handy anyways. Check your LHS dealer or direct.

 

[Darth Santa Fe]

Hello thats not the only kit  the PRR 2-10-0, K-4 Pacific, PRR l-1 Mikado.

Those kits are still available, but only as Deluxe kits with the super-detail parts. The Deluxe kits are probably more popular than the engine and tender kits alone, since they're a better value, and come pre-drilled for the detail parts.

The Big Boy was made by cutting and soldering two Challenger boilers, so making the solder joints look good and all the filing and filling and sanding incorrect holes would take an enormous amount of work. Knowing how they made them, and how popular they'd be at this point, it probably just wasn't worth keeping them in production anymore.

Maybe...just maybe...they're making a new boiler shell that looks right and doesn't take so much work!

[dinwitty]

dang, theres such a boom in RTR versions, no wonder.

gotta finish over my bowser one.